"Knowing how to play the referee is crucial"

I was reading in the Irish Times today about the Irish squad and I saw this article by Alan Quinlan. Thought it fascinating and very honest about his own time as a player ...

Anyway just thought I would share it on here

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0118/1224310398531.html

Very good read that. Knowing how to react to the ref you have is very important. I had an away University game wednesday. The bias of the ref towards the home team was unbelievable. We had a red card for a 'late tackle' when the player who was kicking the ball hadn't even kicked the ball away yet, a yellow for another late tackle on a player when the player was passing the ball, so just leaving his hands. Compare this to a penalty we were awarded for an opposition player kicking one of our players in his head which the ref acknowledged he saw.

I came of the bench with about 30 mins left. I was pinged for my binding in a scrum, the last time I played tight head I was allowed to bind there so I did. Got told I wasn't allowed, fair enough. I switch to loose head where I prefer and for the rest of the game their tight head binds the way I was pinged for. One or 2 missed by the ref I could forgive, but for him to miss I think ended up as several times, where I was tapping the players arm very clearly to show and he was standing barely a metre or two away I find hard to forgive.

Yes we didn't help ourselves with the chat back at times which cost us at times, myself on the side wondering why our players couldn't keep their mouths shut. I said to the guys on the side, 'you have to play the ref infront of you so just keep shut' the response I get? along the lines of 'what else are they supposed to do to show him'. I couldn't quite believe the response I had been given. You get games where you have a referee like this and all you can do is not give him a reason to do further damage. The thing that took the biscuit though as well, I mentioned we had our moments of chat back which he wouldn't tolerate, their players were allowed to talk to him and point out what we were doing all game to no consequence.

So it was with great satisfaction to come away with a 17-10 win

Kids today...you don't know you are born Hodge!

In my day at tight head, if you back chatted the ref you were just as likely to get a kick in the crutch from him when you scrummed down.

That is most likely the most important aspect of professional rugby. A team on the short end of the stick with a referee needs to adapt very quickly indeed.

Problem with a referee is though, that is they officate one way in one match and then totally different n the next, by the time a team adapts they could be several points down.

Tough challenge.

biltongbek wrote:That is most likely the most important aspect of professional rugby. A team on the short end of the stick with a referee needs to adapt very quickly indeed.

Problem with a referee is though, that is they officate one way in one match and then totally different n the next, by the time a team adapts they could be several points down.

Tough challenge.

Knew you would surface on this one biltong!

But of course, why would I not.

Hodge,

I would suggest as well that, with all due respect, you need to realise that it isn't professional rugby.

Playing the ref, different interpretations etc. are terms often bandied about but the reality is that on a Wednesday afternoon the ref society are simply getting whatever guys are available to head to the local uni. It isn't Wayne Barnes and odds are he is going to be inconsistent.

Ideally the referee will want to better himself but you can't control that. There is a differene between being biased and being simply a bad referee. And unfortunately at grassroots level unpaid volunteers will always have different levels of committment which leads to different levels of performance.

I know my society tried to make everyone step up a level and get uniformity. It lead to a lot of guys saying they couldn't be bothered with fitness testing and law exams; they packed it in - we didn't have the numbers to commit refs and it ended up with one coach simply having to ref.

Its a pain but if you can make your peace with it, you'll save yourself pulling out your hair.

I don't want to go into it more but it was more than a case of having a bad ref, also the home university is required to provide the ref, we have a number for the ref we usually like to referee our home games as he is a very good referee.

I fully understand that, maybe the way I came off in what I said looked that way but I meant it more with the frustration being aimed at the players on my own side. I just found it strange how our players couldn't adapt to the referee that we had for the game, and the players persistence to still complain, something that I don't do as it has no place in the game.

Generally the NZRFU prefers to pay in cash because it's impossible to trace. Of course, you must not be seen making the payment so generally we like to have it planted in the ref´s changing room with a silver fern before the match.

How embarrassing, I misread the post!

Unless of course you are an All-Black, and then you don't have to play the ref at all, in fact you do just what you want, and the Ref 'Plays along'

Well done Mr McCaw!!!

You popped up quicker than I had anticipated EW. I didn´t have the rod ready.

They say black is a slimming colour. I think you misheard and think it´s a sinning colour.

Kia- Sinning just about sums it up!!

And all those yellows your team is picking up recently represent the sun to guide your angels back to heaven.

Kia- Guilty as charged re those yellows, and if Mccheat and the rest of the AB brotherhood were subjected to the same scrutiny as England and other teams, Mccheat and a few others would be on a permanent ban from the game.But hey, thats never going to happen, but who said life is fair. Oh, come to think of it, i think it may have been mentioned by a few AB fans after last years World cup!! In fact for them Rugby officialdom is more than fair!!

No life isn't fair EW. Good luck in the 6N. Those injuries are rotten luck.

Kia- As i've said life is more than fair to AB's on a Rugby pitch with Mccheats 'Cloak of invisibility' and the ref wearing the kind of Blinkers that only allow him to see opposition infringements, so all AB fans should thank the Lord ( or the IRB) for the officialdom that allows them to get away with Murder, Figuratively of course.

However, England especially and the rest have to play within the rules so, really its a 2 tier Rugby world!! Well done on that World cup by the way, Ha,ha,ha

Thanks EW, it was a good win and a reward to the most consistently performing team of the tournament.

It really is a 2 tier Rugby World. SA and Australia can beat the ABs and the French are the best NH side. They're the top tier. Then there´s the rest.

Kia- It certainly is a 2 Tier sport when the AB's play, and i for one am in total agreement with you! But nothing to be proud of unfortunately.

Don't be so down mate. England will make you proud again one day.

The thing with NZ, is that they've learned to play the referee wonderfully. You can watch McCaw and his cohorts adapting to a referee's interpretation throughout a game. Rather than start a conspiracy, we need to watch and learn. Mastering the breakdown is a key part of the game. The last time England understood and executed better than anyone else was 2003. The interpretation of the laws has changed and we don't seem to have adapted. We were relentlessly sloppy in that area in the RWC, and lost the 6N Glandslam by being out-thought and out-played in that exact crucial area by Ireland last year. I can't help but notice the English clubs having similar difficulties. With any luck Lancaster will bring a different approach.

You can't win without the ball (any more), and we need to learn to firstly get hold of it (another story), respect it and then retain it to unleash possibly the most under-utilised potential in a back line in the world currently.

I think NZ get the benefit of the doubt at the moment in the ruck area because reputationally they are a "positive" and "attacking" team. Perhaps England have the opposite reputation and suffer for it. Just a thought.

Mitey
Sloppy is a good word to describe England's play and particularly discipline over most of the time of Johnson's tenure as coach. Occasionally it all clicked into place and we were a quality side, but so often promising positions were thrown away by little moments of sloppiness such as not straight line-outs, little knock ons, players off their feet at rucks or illegal binds in the scrum. My impression (and I appreciate that being an England fan, this may be a false perception) is that we were guilty of these sorts of thing much more often than most of our opponents. So frustrating to watch.

I have to say I've very rarely seen the All Blacks be guilty of these sloppy little errors (perhaps the RWC Final being something of an exception).

The facts are this that the AB's get a greater 'Benefit of the doubt' than any other team in World Rugby, while England and others don't, and its as simple as that, and anyone who has analysed AB Rugby and especially Mccheats play, will see that they get away with Murder. They don't play the ref, because they don't have to.

Rugby is a simple game, and for the AB's a very simple game, as they rarely have to adjust their game to what the Ref wants. Let me also say that the AB's are the best side in World Rugby, so its not sour Grapes, but it is obvious for those with Eyes to see!!

EW, casting sticks and stones at opposition players and inventing a global refereeing conspiracy is genuinely not the answer.

We should instead rue our lack of a genuine open side, with the ability to form good relationships with referees.

NZ have been blessed with a succession of greats such as McCaw, Kronfeld and Michael Jones consistently all the way back to 1987, with such national depth that guys like Marty Holah were left to carve out a career in another country. Australia too have had Pocock, George Smith and Phil Waugh in recent times who are world class fetchers, with Gregan and Eales both masters of referee management.

We really haven't had anyone remotely close to that calibre since Back and Hill. And Martin Johnson was the last compelling captain who engendered respect from referees. Unsurprisingly when they all played together, we came out on top most of the time.

We have to ask ourselves why we couldn't find timely replacements for these guys, and set about finding some quickly if we hope to compete in the contemporary game.

I'm not into this head-in-the-sand conspiracy stuff at all. It's like admitting defeat before you set out to think that way.

Firstly, we should be able to find a way to win (however murky or cunning) rather than pretending that we're some how too honorable to do so.

Secondly, a true rugby fan can appreciate when their side is bettered, and get enjoyment out of the insane talents of other teams players (even if it hurts at the time), rather than brining the whole game into disrepute with those sorts of comments.

english warrior wrote:The facts are this that the AB's get a greater 'Benefit of the doubt' than any other team in World Rugby, while England and others don't, and its as simple as that, and anyone who has analysed AB Rugby and especially Mccheats play, will see that they get away with Murder. They don't play the ref, because they don't have to.

Rugby is a simple game, and for the AB's a very simple game, as they rarely have to adjust their game to what the Ref wants. Let me also say that the AB's are the best side in World Rugby, so its not sour Grapes, but it is obvious for those with Eyes to see!!

Sean Fitzpatrick was possibly the best at playing the ref I've ever seen. And believe me Richie McCaw plays the ref. Statistically over the past several years the AB's have generally conceded more penalties per match than their opposition (I can't find it now but I wrote an article on it back in November) - which is not something you'd expect from a team that's ahead on the scoreboard more often than not. Where the AB's excel is that they rarely resort to foul play (which is the primary cause of yellow cards), and they are quick to adapt if a referee is picking on a certain aspect of the game.

Mightyironpaw- Well one mans 'Conspiracy theorist' is another man telling the truth!!

I genuinely believe that the Dice are fixed in World Rugby and those Dice favour the SH and the AB's in particular and work against the NH teams of England and France with the others not standing a chance anyway!!

But England have knocked France out of world cups regularly. How does that fit your theory? And England regularly overcome SH opposition in world cups, and beat Australia home and away last year.

Surely the peak of our powers was beating NZ at home with just 13 men. If we could do it then (apparently at the hands of a diabolical refereeing conspiracy to send our players from the field whilst they weren't infringing), we must be able to do it now.

Generally a team that is successful has the term cheats thrown at it. It's more comforting to think that the opposition are playing with loaded dice rather than look at the deficiencies of your own side. It´s not just one side who receive this tag. Looking at the cycles of dominance of rugby, I have heard SA, Australia, England and France all been used in conjunction with the phrase ´those cheating illegitimate sons´ by NZ supporters. It´s a natural reaction to soften the blow of defeat. But not an accurate one. Tell me a side that goes through a game without a penalty and I´ll show you someone who is willing to admit they really like the song Final Countdown and thinks it deserves more air time. Especially around New Year's.

Of course when it was us, we were "BORING cheats". At least nobody's calling you boring.

True enough! But the term cheat full in itself is boring.

Winning is important. That said, I think AB supporters demand victory but also performance. Unless it´s a World Cup and we haven´t won in 24 years! Then we´ll take whatever...

Kia- It truly says a lot that the only time the AB's have won the WC is on home soil where the pressure on the refs has been ratcheted up and Paddy 'O' Blarney has threatened the refs not to penalise the AB's, and perhaps you can remember when this paragon of virtue dressed down a ref after an Italy -AB game, and apologised to the AB's for the ref not keeping his blinkers on, it says a lot and you know it.

When did he threaten the refs not to penalise NZ EW? I'm not aware of that one! please post a link to the article.

I recall him apologising for Stuart Dickenson's performance. But then, a lot of people have had issues with Stuart "Anyone but England" Dickinson.

EW
I see above that you state that the dice are fixed in World rugby in favour of the Southern Hemisphere teams and the ABs in particular.
Now heres something for you to ponder.... have you ever considered it possible that the fortunes SH teams appear to enjoy may be a mirror image of the hard work put in by the players as individuals and as a team? These players seek to play the game at the highest possible standard evry time they play,maybe some other teams should try thinking along similar lines,then we wouldnt have to put up with their sad miserable supporters....

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:True enough! But the term cheat full in itself is boring.

Winning is important. That said, I think AB supporters demand victory but also performance. Unless it´s a World Cup and we haven´t won in 24 years! Then we´ll take whatever...

Kia I have heard that statement being branded about for quite some time.

I think most team's fans demand the same (well I do know south African fans do) it is just a case of the All Black fans getting their demands met more often than other team's fans.

Yeah never said it was something exclusive to AB supporters. I´m well aware of SA's high standards and expectations. But often in the 6N, teams are so eager to win against their rivals that they'll take a win over any performance of substance.

England vs Scotland, Ireland vs France, Wales vs England. If they could squeak a win rather than a loss playing well, I get the impression most people would take a win in those kinds of games. I think most teams feel that way.

But take an ugly win or a good win and many posters would say it doesn't matter. A win's a win. Therein lies the difference for me. There's a big difference.

Yeah, I do agree with you about the mentality of winning is the most important. Perhaps that is why you often get this slagging between opposing fans where the manner of win does not take presidence.

thats a great read, Quinlans a lad!

regarding the winning/winning with performance mentality. There obviously going to be a difference between the SH top 3 and the rest of the world, you 3 are used to conisistently winning, thats sort of become expected. The performance to top that off is what you'll demand. Just spare a thought for us up here in the NH, there just isnt a consistency in winning. The sides regularly beat eachother and lose to the SH teams in the summer/AI tours. We demand a victory first, then, the performance is an after-thought, it'll remain that way until one of the nations starts winning consistently, perhaps then you'll see a change in mindset from the fans.

Knowing how to pay the referee is infinitely more rewar...................................what? ______ When?________ Oh sorry, guys - the IRFU have just slapped an injunction on me saying anything else.

secretfly, the WRU have found that offering lollipops to ball boys is far cheaper.

Great forward thinking strategy by the Welsh that time - going for the unpredictable bribe candidate! Excellent move. Kaplan still kept our bloody money even though he couldn't effect the win for us after that bombshell.