Northampton Saints going forward. New signings?

As a Saints fan i'm more than a little worried at the min. Some terrible losses this season at home (even though to some excellent opposition teams) and some departures of Ashton, Downey and Wilson at least. I wonder where we go from here? We supposedly strengthened at the end of last season but appear to have gone backwards. Now I appreciate it is easy to over react, as if we had beaten Muster at Thomand things may have been different. But two hidings at home from Muster and Scarlets is poor even though they are very good teams. On here there were many from Munster who were not very confident at home due to new backrow combinations etc (from memory) and yet we were beaten. We don't seem able to move on from last season. Many teams are already signing for next season and we are losing players. anyone got and ideas or rumours who the Saints may be after AND how do we move forward? Or am I simply over reacting to a couple of poor results?

I would have thought your signings for this season have turned out really well. Manusamoa, Pisi and Artmiev have been great this year.

Still lacking a top class 10 in my book.

You definitely need a new 8. Narraway is meant to be going your way. I'm not a huge fan and would probably look for someone more physical but he's decent (Delve might be an option).

You've got good options at centre, Clarke, Pisi, May & Elliot, in fact I think Downey hasn't been that great for you this season.

Another back three player isn't a necessity, Foden, Artemiev, Armstrong, Tonks, Diggin & Cato are a good core and then there are Anders Mogensen, Tom Collins, Charlie Sadler & César Sempere who I don't know anything about. Miles Benjamin would be a great signing though if you succeed in beating Tigers for him.

Bathite, Agree about a ten. However, I don't think either Lamb or Myler have been that bad. Although that doesn't mean they are great though if we want to compete at the top table.
Niwatts, I actually thought we looked a little weak on the wings yesterday, although we looked weak in many areas. I agree about a new 8. Maybe Mallinder is going to shock us all and get Ben Morgan....not at all likely but would be great for us, and him I dare say in the long run.
I thought Benjamin to Leicester was a done deal already?

Not a done deal regarding Banjamin yet as far as I'm aware. Tigers have been favourite for the last couple of weeks, but Saints have supposedly been sniffing around him for longer and they might well step that up now Ashton is definitely gone and Tigers might be more concerned in spending money replacing Twelvetrees.

I certainly agree that I don't think the starting balance was quite right in your wingers yesterday. Artemiev has been in good form and is getting better every week (I think he'll be a great investment over the next couple of years), and centre/wing Elliot has been similarily good, so I can understand starting them both, but I would have started the more physical Armstrong. If you do get another back three player I think they have to be an additional physical specimen, which is why Benjamin would be excellent.

Ben Morgan would be good, but I think he'll stick out his contract at Scarlets, so too far down the line for you.

I agree about FH as well. I didn't think Lamb was a good signing last year, but he's done pretty well so far and seems to be smoothing out the problems in his game. Given he had a good game against Scarlets, I think I would have backed the more practical Myler for your game yesterday though.

The question is, do you need a true world class FH to win the HC these days? Good club players like King & Goode were enough in the past, but any longer?

Tigers might be more concerned in spending money replacing Twelvetrees.

They have Allen and Forsyth as IC options. They are losing Alesana, Agulla and Robinson this summer. Wingers (at least one) will be a priority.

They'll definitely need wingers, but I was thinking more along the lines that with Twelvetrees gone, Staunton supposedly moving on, Flood an England squad member and Ford representing at age level (then possibly Saxons next year), they'll need to get cover at FH, a centre wouldn't go amiss (only having Allen, Forsyth and Smith when Tuilagi is away), plus at least 2 wingers, so if Saints decide to bump their offer for Benjamin would Tigers be inclined to follow suit or will they look elsewhere for a better deal.

It would be nice to get Benjamin I must admit. I just think that we are missing something. Something which I cannot still but my finger on. At the very least we need direct replacements for the lads that are mving on. Not been so impressed with Downey of late and don't think Tom May is up to it any longer. I thought I remembered him being faster and he could not even burn off Steve Mafi (I think) during the last Leicester game. We need a strong spine. Front row has been much better though I think this year. I just wish Mallinder would move for someone like everyone else is or all the good free agents will be already snapped up! We could do with some good news.

I hope the Saints sign a top class 12, although not sure who. Agree that May is at best a squad player and if Lamb is going to continue to be first choice 10 then we need a strong IC playing alongside him. I know that Downey hasn't been so noticeable this season and didn't play well yesterday but we do always look a better team when he plays. Wonder if he might try Clarke and Pisi in the centers before the end of the season, I think Pisi could maybe have the skills to play 12.

Agree that the wings looked lightweight yesterday and Armstrong would have been a better option to start. Rate Benjamin but expect him to go to Welford road and think maybe the money could be better spent elsewhere. Would like to see another 15 signed (Tonks hasn't pushed on as much as I thought he would) so Pisi isn't moved back there during the 6N (Clarke could play there as well).

In the backrow feel 2 signings are needed with Wilson leaving as I felt we were short there already. Not usually Narraway's biggest fan but he had a great game on Friday night so hopefully if he does sign it wasn't a one off, think Morgan will see his contract out at Scarlets.

6 - Dowson / Clark
7 - Wood / Nutley
8 - Narraway? / ?

Could be another 6 with Dowson playing more at 8 but certainly short there. Couple of young lads coming through but don't think they are ready yet. Don't feel a need to strengthen the front 5, arguably the strongest options there in the prem overall (along with Tigers & Saracens, although Tigers need to strengthen hooker).

If fully fit I'd have thought a starting midfield would be Pisi & Clarke, which I think would be pretty good.

I can understand what you mean about missing something, but it might just be a case of letting some of the newer acquisitions bedding in for longer.

Your front row is top notch. You've got some very good locks. If you replace Wilson with a high quality 8 you'll retain a very decent backrow, though there might be room for a true openside. The SHs are quality. The FHs are good, if not world class. The midfield is pretty good (particularly Pisi), and the back three has great elements with strong prospects to improve, espceially if you get Benjamin.

B91212 definitely need a new 12. A bosher would be nice as long as they have a decent set of hands too.
Niwatts I think a decent 8 is a must. I just fear JM will be too slow and the better options out there will be gone. Sounds silly I know as there is still so much of this season left. Wilson is underrated by everyone except Saints fans I think.
Just hope we continue to develop and kick on like I thought we would have done this year.

Coltnet wrote:Wilson is underrated by everyone except Saints fans I think.

I agree, he is a very big loss and will be hard to replace. Not the most spectacular player but his work rate and commitment are second to none and never seems to go missing in games like some players can. Out of the 3 'big' names leaving he is the one I think Saints will miss most.

I hope JM is doing a Tigers and is working behind the scenes to secure some big signings without announcing anything yet, but like you fear he could miss the boat so to speak. Wonder about Beatie (as well as Narraway) moving south to regain his form and bolster the back row options. I think he needs a change and Saints have a good record in getting the best out of players. Could be good all round.

I can't think of an established strong 12 though who could be available. Any suggestions welcome

Not sure about established but many on here have been touting a Falcons centre (who I don't know tbh) as replacement for Twelvetrees on here if Falcons go down. Don't mind some young lad as long as he is showing some class or lots of potential.

Fitzpatrick is a big strong boshing centre up at Newcastle. Don't think he'll be on his way to Tigers but he'd be a perfect fit at Saints.

Young Falcon goes to Tigers. Sure I have heard that somewhere before!

He won't head to Tigers Bathite, more likely he'll go to Saints where he would slot in perfectly.

Don't think there's any Falcons harvesting planned by Tigers this year.

Although Fitzpatrick is a good prospect and I would be happy if he did move to the Gardens at the end of the season I would still rather a an established 12 brought in as well. I've not looked into the who 'Marque' signing thing but if it does start next year then I would be happy if ours was an established international IC. Anyone know if Jean DeVilliers is available Although I guess players of that caliber would be snapped up by the larger paying French or Japanese clubs if they were chasing the dollar.

A high calibre big name will cost more be around for less time and not necessarily show the same committment a young player given a big opportunity should.

I'd expect Saints to use the marquee signing in the forwards anyway.

KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF FITZY!!!!!!!

He aint going nowhere!!! Even if we go down...he'll be a big part in the rebuilding at KP....with all the rest of the kids...

If he's in a current. Contract it's a non starter any way. I must admit I don't know much about this marquee signing situation. Does this allow one signing that does not count towards the salary cap?

Coltnet wrote:If he's in a current. Contract it's a non starter any way. I must admit I don't know much about this marquee signing situation. Does this allow one signing that does not count towards the salary cap?

Yep, one player outside of the cap, can't be a current premiership player. Think that it is still capped though, to 300k i believe. Normal foreign rulings count

That's interesting and should throw up some interesting moves. Just hope Saints don't get left behind!

Can't wait to see it in action, plenty of Kiwis post WC that might fancy it. Doubt we will see any aussies though, with the Lions tour coming up. Kiwis and Saffas are my bets.

Woodcock
Mealamu
Williams
Cowan
Habana
Ben Smith
Morne Steyn

I reckon would all fancy some cash in the NH

Surely they would want more than 300k? And who could pay it except Sarries and Bath?

Tigers Saints Glos

I wouldn't know, sounds like not a bad deal for a couple of seasons, much more than back home

Break the bank and offer Leinster a mill for Sexton. Lose the redundants and get in a World Class player to take ye to the next level.
Ye know it make sense.

Im his agent btw.

He's still unresolved as to where he'll be next season, and if Mallinder could reignite a bit of passion in him, then Casey Lualala would be as good a signing for Saints as any.

If Morgan is out to make money, he'll see out his contract then let all, not just a few tender for him as a free agent with no transfer payment.

If Lualala is an available then he'd be a good option, but I think Saints could do a lot worse than signing Twelvetrees, who is apparently on his way out. Twelvetrees and Pisi could be a great centre partnership. I know 36 has been linked to Gloucester and, from an England point of view, it would be exciting to see him link up with Trinder again, I think I would prefer to see May move infield for Gloucester and push Twelvetrees (and Turner-Hall) hard for the England 12 shirt in the long-term. It's been a long while since we had a decent 12, (5 games by Flutey in 2009 aside) so it would be nice to see a few young English options starting for some of the top English sides (as well as Allen at Tigers and Barritt at Saracens).

Twelvetrees confirmed at Gloucester mate, too late for that

GeordieFalcon wrote:KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF FITZY!!!!!!!

He aint going nowhere!!! Even if we go down...he'll be a big part in the rebuilding at KP....with all the rest of the kids...

No need to worry, Fitzy signed a three year contract last January.

Will Welch and James Hall signed two year deals last January (Well pleased about Welch, I could see him becoming club captain if he stays long term)

Mark Wilson signed a three year contract last January.

Jeremy Manning signed a two year contract in December 2010 (will probably leave).

Joel Hodgson signed a three year deal last April

Darren Fearn signed for a ‘undisclosed’ length of time last June.

Tim Swinson & Alex Tait signed ‘undisclosed’ length contracts last February.

James Hudson signed a two year contract last February

Bit busy right now, will look at the rest later.

Thats looking pretty good cumbrian...

If the inevitable happens and we go down...we need to rebuild the squad with all our young kids mixed with some grizzled old veterans...not hasbeen journeymen from SA etc.

I'm hoping to see Joe Robinson get plenty of game time next season. My Cumbrian spies have said that he has a big future ahead of him. Not seem him play myself, but he's only young and seems massive! Be good if he could turn into a big destructive Stephen Ferris style no.6 eh?

Is a Stephen Ferris academy product too much to ask for? IS it?

No by god its not!

And us falcons lot deserve a bit of good fortune for a change...

How old is he now? Croft is 25 so if this Robinson lad is 18 we can come and collect him when he's 23 as Croft will be 30 and accepting his big retirement contract from Bath.

I think a year in the Championship will do the Falcons some good, clear the dead wood and get the squad unified and settled in a similar way to Saints.

formerly known as Sam wrote:How old is he now? Croft is 25 so if this Robinson lad is 18 we can come and collect him when he's 23 as Croft will be 30 and accepting his big retirement contract from Bath.

I think a year in the Championship will do the Falcons some good, clear the dead wood and get the squad unified and settled in a similar way to Saints.

What's this the 'screw-you' food chain?

Given Cockrill's recent chat in the papers, you won't be after Robinson in five years... You'll be after a past it Australia 'A' international!

The anti-English players stance that never quite materialises? Cockerill has to toe the party line, remember the Tigers board are heavilly involved when it comes to discussions between the RFU and the PRL.

Salvi has been rather helpful this season though and has meant we're had a proper 7 available for most of the season which certainly wasn't the case last year. I'm not to inclined to knock Aussie A internationals on that point. He'll do, until the Will Welch 'screw the Falcons' deal goes ahead .

Touché

Eves has returned to Bristol with immediate effect...

GeordieFalcon wrote:Eves has returned to Bristol with immediate effect...

I was saying to my mate (Brizzle supporter) that this would likely happen. He's a Bristol lad, I don't really blame him for heading home.

Yeah...

WHo do you realistically think we'll look to keep next season...ive been trying to think of our starting 15 next season in the championship...and cant quite settle on a definate 15...

Cumbrian wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF FITZY!!!!!!!

He aint going nowhere!!! Even if we go down...he'll be a big part in the rebuilding at KP....with all the rest of the kids...

No need to worry, Fitzy signed a three year contract last January.

But would the Falcons really stand in his way if one of the bigger premiership teams came knocking? I've not seen enough of him to say he should or should not be playing at the top level but he obviously has potential. I could understand it if the Falcons could guarantee promotion in the first season but look at Bristol.

Just to add I really hope Newcastle do come straight back up a la Saints with a solid platform to push on from. For the good of the game I think the Premiership needs the northern teams to do well (even the Geordie's ). I still hope there is some miracle and Wasps drop out of the league but as others have said it could be good for the Falcons anyway.

B91212 wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF FITZY!!!!!!!

He aint going nowhere!!! Even if we go down...he'll be a big part in the rebuilding at KP....with all the rest of the kids...

No need to worry, Fitzy signed a three year contract last January.

But would the Falcons really stand in his way if one of the bigger premiership teams came knocking? I've not seen enough of him to say he should or should not be playing at the top level but he obviously has potential. I could understand it if the Falcons could guarantee promotion in the first season but look at Bristol.

Just to add I really hope Newcastle do come straight back up a la Saints with a solid platform to push on from. For the good of the game I think the Premiership needs the northern teams to do well (even the Geordie's ). I still hope there is some miracle and Wasps drop out of the league but as others have said it could be good for the Falcons anyway.

If they don't at least try, what kind of message does it send to the fans, players and other premiership clubs? If Falcons don't take a stand at some point, we'll be without a team! To be honest my compromise would be to tell the player(s) to stay for a year, give their all for promotion and if it doesn't work out he (or anybody else) could leave with the club's blessing.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Yeah...

WHo do you realistically think we'll look to keep next season...ive been trying to think of our starting 15 next season in the championship...and cant quite settle on a definate 15...

The way I see it, there is a ready made core of good young English and Scottish players already at the club. If I was Semore, I’d be breaking my back to try and keep:

Will Welch ( he’s a real priority to my mind, although as Sam alluded to above, it might be difficult to keep hold of him.)
Darren Fearn
Grant Shiels (depends where he is in the Scottish pecking order though)
James Hall
Tim Swinson
Mark Wilson

Joel Hodgson
Tom Catterick
Alex Tait

I’d also like to keep hold of the Mayhew brother, I don’t think we’ve seen enough of them yet and they are English qualified.

There are the youngsters that may not be quite on the radar too like the aforementioned Robinson and a few others.

I don’t think we’ve got a cat in hells chance of keeping some of the more established players like Hudson, Murray, Golding and Hogg.

Cumbrian wrote:To be honest my compromise would be to tell the player(s) to stay for a year, give their all for promotion and if it doesn't work out he (or anybody else) could leave with the club's blessing.

Agree with that, seems very fair. I wasn't saying it was right that he should be able to leave to further his career, just that I didn't think the Falcons would hold him to his contract if it came to that. 3 years in the Championship for a player with potential could make a very big difference to their overall playing career.

I think you've pretty much got that right Cumbrian....

See how the likes of Beaumont etc come along...

I look at Saints and still see a team coming together after relegation. Last season was terrific and probably ahead of anyone's reasonable schedule. Losing Roger Wilson will be huge, as he has done so much for the club. And I really haven't heard anything through the grapevine so far.

But I wonder about Saints Fly-half situation. I simply don't get Ryan Lamb. For all the go-forwards and flair he gives the team, he gives back with bad kicks, mindless kicks to nowhere, and bad passes to no one. Last season Myler took Saints to within 40 minutes of the Heineken Cup, and frankly, it took an unbelieveable Leinster team to best them. Not saying Myler is the greatest 10 in the premeirship, but he controlls the game very well and makes few mistakes. Why is he not starting most of the matches? And is there a risk of him leaving?

Thanks,

I've been surprised by how well Lamb has controlled games at times this season, he seems to have matured in that sense and like you say can be great going forward. However, I do agree that the good is too often negated by the bad, the rubbish or just plain downright crap he is also capable of. He also still has a tendency to go missing when the pressure is on, although Myler has been known to sometimes do that as well.

All told I think that Lamb has the greater overall ability than Myler but when he is playing I always get the feeling a major mistake is just around the corner. As you say Myler is solid and more dependable but is never going to be a world beater. Can't make my mind up which one I prefer starting to be honest.

Not sure when Myler's current deal expires but hopefully he won't go anywhere in the near future.

B91212 wrote:All told I think that Lamb has the greater overall ability than Myler but when he is playing I always get the feeling a major mistake is just around the corner.

This is my feeling exactly. Lamb has much greater ability, sees the game better and is more dynamic. But something is simply missing. I do agree he has played better for Saints than I expected, and that is probably down to the coaching staff.

I think Myler has done well for Saints since so much of the attack goes through the scrum half. Playing such an up tempo game requires a lot of the on field decisions to be made by Dickson, and does not leave as much for the out half to decide. But Myler keeps everyone going forwards and does not make the bad mistakes. His kicking at goal has also improved significantly from his first years, too.

I guess it is what you like. High risk, high reward? Or a more conservative type?