Stephen Sykes leaving Leinster

Saw a rumour on the Leinster fan site that Sykes has signed with the Sharks back in South Africa.

Pretty disappointing if true, he did arrive with some fairly high expectations and for one reason or another he hasn’t been able to stay fit and has only played in 4 games for us (just under 200 mins).

I would be in favour of looking to sign a marquee foreign player in his position if that is the case, someone like Bekker or Whitelock would be a good call but not sure how likely either of them are to come here.

Maybe we could look at the likes of Caldwell who’s been playing well for Bath, but I’m not sure the good form he’s showing is sustainable. He never played enough for long enough at Ulster.

Caldwell was hot and cold for Ulster, but also a penelty giving machine, I think he's been good for Bath, but if he can't cut it at Ulster he won't cut it for Leinster. Not sure if he's the one making way to bring it to the 4+1 NIE players the IRFU want for next year, if not then I think a top NIE lock should come in.

Or if there are young locks in the acamady, Big Bob Casey is leaving LI at end of year maybe, so he could come in for a year or two. (he's about the same age Natan Hinds was when he arrived.)

Ah but the difference was that Hines had just played with a Perpignan side that would eventually be champions of France and was also on the Lions tour. Casey isn’t even a guaranteed started at LI anymore as far as I know.

Sykes was signed on a 3 year deal so the plan was never for him to be the NIQ player that missed out. I’d imagine that will be Mat Berquist, who hasn’t played since our pre-season friendlies. In the academy we have Mark Flanagan (Toner’s cousin) who looked really good in his debut a few weeks back but he’s 22 and only has 1 start to his name, he might get more gametime this year but not sure he’s up to the standard where he could be starting 50% of our league games each year.

We already tried to nick Mike McCarthey and Andrew Browne from Connacht, but they turned us down.

Ian Nagle. He is way down the pecking order at Muster, is a good player and he would get sometime

I've only seen Nagle play one full game (against Aus). What type of second row is he, the more technical lineout caller, or the second jumper ruck smasher type?

Caldwell has been our player of the season so far, along with Frans Louw. I was really sceptical at first, what can an Ulster cast off bring to our squad? However, he has played more minutes than anyone, given real go forward. I was concerned about this penalty machine tag he came with, but haven't seen much evidence to be honest. Just goes to show what a change of scenery can do

Caldwell has just got his step children settled in school - the last thing he would want to do is move.

Plus the fact he is really enjoying his rugby right now.

Hes going nowhere

And he has just signed a 3 year contract, so unless you're going to buy him out of it, not going to happen.

Swap you Tim Barker for Rhys Ruddock?

Geoff, I’m just trying to think of suitable signings. No indication that Leinster want to sign Caldwell or that we’re even going to replace Sykes.

I’d love if Ruddock could be converted into a second row. I think he could make a good combo with Toner.

I don't understand why you think Caldwell is an option? Just because he is Irish, doesn't mean he is available! Half a year into a 3 year contract, just won't happen

Bathite wrote:I don't understand why you think Caldwell is an option? Just because he is Irish, doesn't mean he is available! Half a year into a 3 year contract, just won't happen

That’s the only reason I mentioned him. The IRFU is looking to bring in very tight rules about non Irish eligible players in a couple of seasons.

Anyway, forget Caldwell for a minute.

What about yerman Bekker? He’s at the bulls yeah? They just lost Botha and Matfield to European teams so I’m sure he won’t be moving anywhere…

Matfield retired mate, but Bekker is class, would have 60 caps if he wasn't a Bok

Bathite wrote:Matfield retired mate, but Bekker is class, would have 60 caps if he wasn't a Bok

Duh! Yes, thanks for pointing that out.

Bekker is at the Strormers but couldnt see him leaving South Africa now hes in line to replace Matfield for the Boks

There does seem to be a big push to get Irish lads hopem - looks like Buckley and Caldwell will be the exceptions.

And Bowe!

Mick - to be honest I think Nagle's potential is over rated slightly. He is a top lineout operator but the rest of his game still needs a bit of work. I need to see more about the park from him.

Thats 2 locks in 2 years that havent been good enough.

Considering Cullen has a maybe max of 2 seasons left and behind Toner and Browne we have a player with one appearance to his name I would say its time to raid some of the other provinces for a young IQ lock. Nagle would be a good option but apart from the Australian game i dont think hes looked amazing. and lets not forget Ronan looked really good against the all blacks.

As I see it Leinster have a few options:

- Move Rhys Ruddock or Kevin McLaughlin as a permanment lock

- Dave Foley (Munster)

- Ian Nagle (Munster)

- David O'Callaghan (Munster)

- Tom Hayes (Exeter Chiefs)

- Bob Casey (London Irish)

- Mike McCarthy (Connacht)

- Andrew Browne (Connacht)

I don't see that there are other realistic Irish options available. My preferernce were I a Leinster man is to buy an experienced lock to partner Toner.

Thought O'Callaghan v2 was a backrower?

My preference in order would be

McCarthy
Browne
Foley
Nagle
Hayes

Casey might work for a season but hed just be a stop-gap. I dont think McLaughlin will be good enough to be starting games as a lock. Would like to Ruddock given a few games there

Pity Richie Gray has already signed for Sale. I think he'd love it at Leinster. And Leinster would love to have him.

Golden, he is a backrower in the same way that Donnacha Ryan or Mike McCarthy are backrower. He is a tweener who covers both 4/6

red_stag wrote:Golden, he is a backrower in the same way that Donnacha Ryan or Mike McCarthy are backrower. He is a tweener who covers both 4/6

Right send him up in that case and well give him a look over.

Feckless Rogue wrote:Pity Richie Gray has already signed for Sale. I think he'd love it at Leinster. And Leinster would love to have him.

Yeah, Gray would have been a deadly signing.

I mean, Sale. C’mon!

Michael Corcoran has just confirmed this on twitter.

No official word from Leinster on it, but it seems like a done deal.

red_stag wrote:
I don't see that there are other realistic Irish options available.

Tim Barker?

Interesting that means only Ulster have players contract under the new rules from 2013
Afoa, Payne and Pienaer.

As I understand it there are no NIE players contracted with Leinster or Munster beyond next year

red_stag wrote:As I see it Leinster have a few options:

- Move Rhys Ruddock or Kevin McLaughlin as a permanment lock

- Dave Foley (Munster)

- Ian Nagle (Munster)

- David O'Callaghan (Munster)

- Tom Hayes (Exeter Chiefs)

- Bob Casey (London Irish)

- Mike McCarthy (Connacht)

- Andrew Browne (Connacht)

I don't see that there are other realistic Irish options available. My preferernce were I a Leinster man is to buy an experienced lock to partner Toner.

Keep yer grubby hands off our Tommy

We will give you Tim Barker if you let Sexton come north

If we signed someone like Pascal Pape, that couldn't count against our NIE contingent legally could it?

Dear Ulster,

RE Tim Barker, thanks but no thanks.

Signed,
Leinster.

Oh well ..it was worth a try

Mickado wrote:If we signed someone like Pascal Pape, that couldn't count against our NIE contingent legally could it?

He will be counted as NIE.

Mickado wrote:Dear Ulster,

RE Tim Barker, thanks but no thanks.

Signed,
Leinster.

...Gee you try and throw a dog a bone....your loss....

Geoff, legally you can’t classify a citizen of an EU state as “foreign” when they apply for a job. It’s pretty illegal.

On Barker, look we already took O’Donaghue of yer hands, and he only played about 5 minutes!

Mick - its illegal but IRFU are doing it anyway.

It may, or may not, be illegal but it is the rule applied.

Danielli is currently taking up one of our NIE spots.
If it wasn't applied all the Provinces would be full of EU citizens by now as a way of getting round the rule

I know almost nothing about legal issues like this. But I've wondered about it and here's why I think the IRFU stance is not illegal. Or rather, why I think they think it's not illegal.

UEFA's foreign player restrictions were found to be illegal because they were forcing rules on private business's (clubs), which prevented them from hiring EU citizens who were legally entitled to work in any EU country. Illegal.

The IRFU is not forcing anyone else to not hire foreigners who are legally entitled to work in Ireland. They are just enforcing their own internal rules, by which they'll restrict contracts to players who can't represent their big money spinner, the Irish test team. They are free to offer or not offer contracts to anyone they want, based on what's required to further the aims of their organization. The main aim being a successful test team. A foreign player is useless to them in that regard, so they won't be offering many contracts to foreign players.

Could that be it? The fact that a player can't help their biggest money maker, seems like a reasonable reason to not offer him a contract. But instead, to offer one to somebody who can.

It's very quick to throw him back to SA. He has never really got back to full fitness since he went down against Saints in Donnybrook preseason.

Our second rows seem to be;
Cullen - 2 years left, but any surgery on the ankle will be a hurdle
Toner - decent age, plenty left
Browne - impressive so far, doesn't let the side down, knows his role == he looks to be the key in this, can he become a more regular starting player to take some workload from Cullen
Sykes - never really got into full string, could be gone
Flanagan - all signs look positive for him to increase his minutes, Sykes only having 4 games so far isn't that much of a uplift in games
McLaughlin - can cover second row, with Dom Ryan coming back, this might become a more regular thing for him. If the academy gives us another backrow, then he might have to make the shift more often.

It would be interesting what else is in the academy coming through. Haven't heard anything of the other Ruddock for a year?

The way I look at it, maybe, is that players are headhunted and the IRFU is allowed to headhunt who they wish, they don't advertise vacanies, and therefore don't have to go by employment law.

Leinster lock required, competative pay, Individuel must be a team player and willing to travel. Previous experience essential. Apply D4

I'll also throw in that Leinster shifting Sykes clears Ulster to retain Muller I'd hope. If we could manage to go into next year with all IQ second row options along with all IQ outhalf options, I'd be happy.

Sexton doesn't need a mentor anymore (and if needed he can get it by sitting on the bench in the 6Ns watching ROG play) and Madigan is decent enough to be next choice. Would love the academy to have someone ready to let Berquist head away.

Leinster should try and lure Donncha O'Callaghan to Leinster

Sin é wrote:Leinster should try and lure Donncha O'Callaghan to Leinster

Oh sweet jeysus. that would be...interesting. Why don't Munster just try to coax Denis Hickie out of retirement while their at it!

Band – Berquist is only on a 1 year contract as far as I know. He has an option to extend it so not sure what happens there. Clearly Schmidt hasn’t gotten any use out of him, but he was brought here for a reason, maybe that was just to put some pressure on Madigan and move him along to the next stage of his career, which has happened anyway, or maybe it was something else.

Either way, it’s a real shame, even though Berquist only played something 20 mins this season, but you could got the impression he was a good player and could have added something to the team.

With Sykes gone we’re back to 4+1 NIQ, maybe he’ll be replaced with a foreign player, maybe he won’t and we’ll lose one of Berquist, White or VDM. At the moment I’d say Berquist is most likely to lose out.

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:Leinster should try and lure Donncha O'Callaghan to Leinster

Oh sweet jeysus. that would be...interesting. Why don't Munster just try to coax Denis Hickie out of retirement while their at it!

Who needs TBowe. we've got Zebo

Seriously though - rather than looking for unproven talent, Leinster would be better off looking at the likes of DOC or MOD - both proven players at HCup level. They would keep things ticking over until Route 6'6' produces one of your own (rather than robbing one of our young fellas). Its not as if you haven't done it (Ross, Reddan & Cronin) before.

For the record Berquist, White and VDMs contracts are all up this year, Nacewa’s is up next year and Sykes’ contract was due to finish in 2014.

VDM will need to be retained, no viable backup to Healy yet.
White may need another year, he’s good and Hagan isn’t starting many games just yet.
Berquist seems to be in a position where we do have cover in Madigan and Nacewa at a stretch.

Can’t imagine that signing another lock will be a problem even with the IRFU rules coming in, 1 player in each position surely covers 2 locks among the 3 provinces.

They're not good enough for Leinster. We'd take O'Connell. I'm sure he wants to win more Hieneken Cups. It's win win.

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:Leinster should try and lure Donncha O'Callaghan to Leinster

Oh sweet jeysus. that would be...interesting. Why don't Munster just try to coax Denis Hickie out of retirement while their at it!

Who needs TBowe. we've got Zebo

Seriously though - rather than looking for unproven talent, Leinster would be better off looking at the likes of DOC or MOD - both proven players at HCup level. They would keep things ticking over until Route 6'6' produces one of your own (rather than robbing one of our young fellas). Its not as if you haven't done it (Ross, Reddan & Cronin) before.

Niall Ronan, Felix Jones, Ian Keatley

Bear. Rabbit. Hairy hole.

I’m not suggesting we look for unproven talent. I’d favour a marquee signing, and we could still drop one NIQ player at the end of the season.

None of whom have been front-line players like Ross, Reddan & Cronin.

I don't agree. I think Leinster are going to be very short on the leadership stakes in the forwards once Leo & Jennings retire unless Ruddock steps up to the plate.

This season Ronan has definitely been a front-line player. As would Felix Jones if he had not been injured this year. As he was last year.