Gloucester approach Stephen Jones (Wellies), Gloucester also bid £100k for Ben Morgan

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http://www.rugby-transferts.com/etranger/premier-ship/0014784-stephen-jones-sur-le-depart-de-llanelli.html

Stephen Jones (photo) , emblematic flyhalf for Wales, could leave Llanelli at the end of the season to afford a new challenge.

Barred by the outbreak of the Scarlets Rhys Priestland, the former opener Clermont (2004 to 2006), now aged 34, could start in other places to get more playing time

The English club Gloucester greatly appreciate his profile. Jones could bring all his experience to help Cherries and White and the young Freddie Burns, who recently extended his contract to move forward.

Gloucester also bid £100k for Ben Morgan's services to release him at the end of the season, according to the front page of todays rugby paper.

Exactly, Glos need an already developed SH to lead the young backs and get them going. I'd start with Joe Simpson and work up from there .

Surely Morgan's tucked up with England. No time to fanny about with visits and all. Sadly, and whilst I genuinely think we need a decent 8 (I maintain Tayls is yesterday's man and Fearns has been out for a worryingly long time) the seaweed says Morgan for Glaws.

That being the case, it's back to Bath chasing Gethin Jenkins, Dom Day, plus one or two more. Bloefield is on record in saying we're only bringing four or five players in next season. I hope one of them is Frans Steyn!

Looks like Scarlets are haggling for more cash but Glaws will eventually sign Morgan anyway:

http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/Gloucester-won-t-budge-offer-tabled-Ben-Morgan/story-15233127-detail/story.html

Why are people still unaware that the EPS payments are smoothed out? (referring to article). Gloucester will get a chunk of money but will get less TV/sponsorship money to smooth it out.

Quite why has Narraway fallen out of favour at Glaws and with Saints, who were keen to sign him? He's a pretty fine player and a leader, too.

It seems to me the English clubs buy in their talent just like the national side's RWC team under Johnson. Rather than take Morgan out of the Rabo, maybe more English players should move to the Celtic teams and experience playing with more ambition and skillful players.

glamorganalun wrote:It seems to me the English clubs buy in their talent just like the national side's RWC team under Johnson. Rather than take Morgan out of the Rabo, maybe more English players should move to the Celtic teams and experience playing with more ambition and skillful players.

What a dreadful attempt at a WUM! Get back in training please.

glamorganalun wrote:It seems to me the English clubs buy in their talent just like the national side's RWC team under Johnson. Rather than take Morgan out of the Rabo, maybe more English players should move to the Celtic teams and experience playing with more ambition and skillful players.

Plus they get plenty of rest in the meaningless games due to the fact there is no relegation so the coaches have no worries about playing 2nd/3rd choice teams.

It's not like anyone is going to moan because the stadiums are empty.

5 teams out of 8 in the quarter finals of the HC out of 8 and two French teams says in all!

makes sense for the scarlets to hope that a "bidding war" erupts for morgans signature, to bump up the transfer fee. but can see gloucester or bath being his likely destionation this summer.

glamorganalun wrote:It seems to me the English clubs buy in their talent just like the national side's RWC team under Johnson. Rather than take Morgan out of the Rabo, maybe more English players should move to the Celtic teams and experience playing with more ambition and skillful players.

You clearly haven't watched Glos play recently.

HongKongCherry wrote:But Glaws need an experienced 9, so as good as those few are they would only add to Lewis & Robson.

I wouldn't blow a lot of money on an average player like Cowan.

I can't understand why Morgan would move from a team that has an international back line of : Rhys Preistland, Jon Davies, Scott Williams, George North, Liam Williams/Sean Lamont (going back to Glasgow) with Morgan Stoddart and Tavis Knoyle to come back after injury. This team will be a threat in the HC next year with or without Morgan.

Taking your wumming aside is the fact that if he were to extend his contract he would fall outside of the policy on selecting foreign based players. Moreover he wants to play for an even better back line of Cowan, Burns, Sinbad, 36, Trinder, Sharples, May. More importantly he wants to play for the side he supports. I appreciate club supporters a rare thing that side of the bridge, but overhere we like to go and watch teams play!

glamorganalun wrote:I can't understand why Morgan would move from a team that has an international back line of : Rhys Preistland, Jon Davies, Scott Williams, George North, Liam Williams/Sean Lamont (going back to Glasgow) with Morgan Stoddart and Tavis Knoyle to come back after injury. This team will be a threat in the HC next year with or without Morgan.

To be fair Gloucester's backs did outclass Toulouse at the Shed. And maybe it's because he has ambitions to play for England for a long time and living in England at an English Premiership Club with other players with whom he is eligible to play in the same international team makes a lot of sense in terms of his future prospects? And when talking about English clubs buying in their talent, I wouldn't focus on Gloucester who basically have a homegrown backline right now and the big change next season will be English Twelvetrees

glamorganalun wrote:I can't understand why Morgan would move from a team that has an international back line of : Rhys Preistland, Jon Davies, Scott Williams, George North, Liam Williams/Sean Lamont (going back to Glasgow) with Morgan Stoddart and Tavis Knoyle to come back after injury. This team will be a threat in the HC next year with or without Morgan.

Yea but with a weak front five the Scarlets aren't going to threaten any good side in Europe. Gloucester at least have a pack that can win their own ball

glamorganalun wrote:5 teams out of 8 in the quarter finals of the HC out of 8 and two French teams says in all!

No it doesn't say anything you bloody WUM

glamorganalun:

not sure why you are trying to turn this thread into a Rabo vs Jeff debate?

have heard that that gloucester have approached delve about coming back. do you think they will try to sign both morgan and delve? that would be three impressive ball carriers in the backrow.

6 Delve
7 Qera
8 Morgan

Good work rate and carrying ability there but might lack a bit of dog when it comes to the breakdown. The amount of rumours surrounding Delve could see him end up at a half dozern different clubs. I've heard him linked with: Tigers, Gloucester, Bath, Scarlets, Cardiff and Saints. Now I doubt they are all making bids for him but I bet they've all had a quiet work with his agent.

From what I've heard Delve is off to Toulon and we only tentatively enquired about him, but wages stopped us going any further. Sam's right that backrow would lack balance.

glamorganalun wrote:I can't understand why Morgan would move from a team that has an international back line of : Rhys Preistland, Jon Davies, Scott Williams, George North, Liam Williams/Sean Lamont (going back to Glasgow) with Morgan Stoddart and Tavis Knoyle to come back after injury. This team will be a threat in the HC next year with or without Morgan.

To be fair, give it a couple of years and Gloucester could make the same boast. Burns, Sharples, Trinder, May, Simpson-Daniel and Morgan all harbour international ambitions.

Olly Morgan, JSD and Burns won't play for England, but hopefully the others will, very talented set of youngsters

Bathite wrote:Olly Morgan, JSD and Burns won't play for England, but hopefully the others will, very talented set of youngsters

I can understand why you would be writing off Morgan and JSD, but why Burns? He seems a very talented young player to me and doesn't have the injury issues that have wrecked the others international careers.

Bathite wrote: Burns won't play for England

Meeeoooowww!! Put those claws away. You're not a touch bitter that Burns felt Bath wasn't good enough for him are you?

Olly Morgan, JSD and Burns won't play for England

Morgan and JSD have already played for England though I doubt they'll get any more caps (sadly, I rate both). Burns is in the Saxons and given that Farrell lacks creative ability and Ford is still only 18 he should get a chance or two to stake a claim if he can keep performing well and improving his game. To be fair the only issues surrounding his play at the moment are due to him being young and lacking a bit of experience.

I think Trinder is the least likely to play for England [I suppose he might get a couple of caps that doesn't count] (out of the young players). Tuilagi, Jospeh and Daly will be more likely IMO. I think Lowe is better but not sure if he'll make it. Hooper is too weak defensively but has already made it into the Saxons.

All personally opinion based on the limited viewing given by televised games.

I think the only way Joseph, Daly or Trinder would flourish at 13 is with Tuilagi or another basher at 12.
Playing them with a second five eighth (playmaker) wouldn't be a good balance as we saw with Flutey and Tait.

gowales wrote:I think the only way Joseph, Daly or Trinder would flourish at 13 is with Tuilagi or another basher at 12.
Playing them with a second five eighth (playmaker) wouldn't be a good balance as we saw with Flutey and Tait.

It worked with Gibbs and Taylor though.

I thought Gibbs and Taylor were both bashers.
Anyway it holds little relevance in the modern game. You need balance in the centre.

HongKongCherry wrote:

Bathite wrote: Burns won't play for England

Meeeoooowww!! Put those claws away. You're not a touch bitter that Burns felt Bath wasn't good enough for him are you? :whistle:

Not saying he isn't a good player, just think that Flood, Farrell, Ford will own the shirt in that time and all are better players. Unfortunately you're wrong again, Burns wasn't good enough for Bath, that's why he was in the reserves, playing a league!

I think all of Burns, Trinder, Sharples, Twelvetrees and May should feature at some point. Although having said that, I can't see Foden, Ashton, Tuilagi/Barritt or Flood budging any time soon.

[quote="formerly known as Sam"]

the only issues surrounding his play at the moment are due to him being young and lacking a bit of experience.

And that he is very flakey and unpredictable, reminds me of a young Ryan Lamb, when he is good he is great, but when it rains it pours

DaveM wrote:

HongKongCherry wrote:But Glaws need an experienced 9, so as good as those few are they would only add to Lewis & Robson.

I wouldn't blow a lot of money on an average player like Cowan.

Yup Jimmy Cowan must be a pretty average scrum half to have played for New Zealand 40+ times.

Playing them with a second five eighth (playmaker) wouldn't be a good balance as we saw with Flutey and Tait.

Yet a midfield of Catt and Tait got us to a RWC final in 2007.

And that he is very flakey and unpredictable, reminds me of a young Ryan Lamb, when he is good he is great, but when it rains it pours.

I think it's more to do with him just making the wrong decisions at the wrong time which is a general theme without a lot of flyhalfs. They back themselves when they shouldn't or bottle out of big decisions. All a lack of experience. Different kettle of fish to Lamb who was seriously flacky especially in defence and had real issues in several departments, Burns has more of an all round game then that.

Oh Bathite, there really is nothing like a case of unrequitted to love is there? Freddie has spurned you and now you're sour

Shall we just correct the news for the gallery? As you know, Burns left Bath whilst at the Academy to join our Academy. So the fact he was playing A league games at that point was very impressive.

As Lamb was the previous talented FH at Glaws it is very easy to use the same adjectives. Lamb was flakey and when he was good he was great and when he was bad he was dreadful. The same really cannot be levelled at Burns. He does have bad games, but his defence doesn't become a revolving door. He does miss kicks, but the real trait to show he isn't flakey is that if he tries a long kick and it goes straight into touch, he'll try the same 5 minutes later.

But, I suppose those misty eyes of yours means you don't see this clearly!

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Playing them with a second five eighth (playmaker) wouldn't be a good balance as we saw with Flutey and Tait.

Yet a midfield of Catt and Tait got us to a RWC final in 2007.

And that he is very flakey and unpredictable, reminds me of a young Ryan Lamb, when he is good he is great, but when it rains it pours.

I think it's more to do with him just making the wrong decisions at the wrong time which is a general theme without a lot of flyhalfs. They back themselves when they shouldn't or bottle out of big decisions. All a lack of experience. Different kettle of fish to Lamb who was seriously flacky especially in defence and had real issues in several departments, Burns has more of an all round game then that.

That may be true but the game has moved on since then. There is much more emphasis on running with the ball and crossing the gain line now. We've seen less usage of playmaking 12s since the the new scrum offside rules in 09.

That is true it is more fashionable to have a bosher accelerating onto the ball in the 12 channel and a quicker distributor out at 13 to bring the backs into the game. France still look for a skillfull footballer at 12 though and although, they aren't really the additional flyhalfs England have previously disguised as 5/8ths they are still more playmaker than bosh merchant.

It is all dependent on balance as always and the style with which the team likes to play. Certainly with the additional metres behind the scrum and pretty much every international team using a rush defence the idea of a bosher at 12 is the easiest option especially with most top tier nations looking at their next big 10 being well pretty small in physical stature (O'Connor for Oz, Lambie for SA, Ford for England, Morgan for Wales etc).

gowales wrote:I think the only way Joseph, Daly or Trinder would flourish at 13 is with Tuilagi or another basher at 12.
Playing them with a second five eighth (playmaker) wouldn't be a good balance as we saw with Flutey and Tait.

Barritt anyone?

The worst possible outcome from this thread is that Lancaster might read it and decide to put Banahan at inside centre...

HongKongCherry wrote:Oh Bathite, there really is nothing like a case of unrequitted to love is there? Freddie has spurned you and now you're sour :broken:

Shall we just correct the news for the gallery? As you know, Burns left Bath whilst at the Academy to join our Academy. So the fact he was playing A league games at that point was very impressive.

As Lamb was the previous talented FH at Glaws it is very easy to use the same adjectives. Lamb was flakey and when he was good he was great and when he was bad he was dreadful. The same really cannot be levelled at Burns. He does have bad games, but his defence doesn't become a revolving door. He does miss kicks, but the real trait to show he isn't flakey is that if he tries a long kick and it goes straight into touch, he'll try the same 5 minutes later.

But, I suppose those misty eyes of yours means you don't see this clearly! ;)

You know my thoughts on Burns, very sad to see him go and it hurts more when its Glos and when he plays well, but we haven't missed him at all to be honest. It was a logical signing for you, no real depth at FH for quite a while now, Spencer tried, Taylor tried Robinson been and gone. He wouldn't get in ahead of Butch and he wouldn't start now ahead of Donald and with Heathcote looking great, it isn't a worry.

By flakey, I wasn't meaning poor defence, I just meant that his performances are inconsistent and regards to the Lamb reference, as someone else already said, it could be levelled at any fly half, Geraghty, Donald when he first joined. Don't take it all personally, as you and i know, when he irons out his inconsistency in 2 years time, he'll be a more complete player and ready for the black blue and white. Just consider it a loan for him to get first team experience, big clubs do this quite a lot to local feeder clubs.

Bathite wrote: Just consider it a loan for him to get first team experience, big clubs do this quite a lot to local feeder clubs.

I shall rise above that!

Bathite wrote: It was a logical signing for you, no real depth at FH for quite a while now, Spencer tried, Taylor tried Robinson been and gone. He wouldn't get in ahead of Butch and he wouldn't start now ahead of Donald and with Heathcote looking great, it isn't a worry.

au contraire, I really need to give you history lessons don't I? When he joined we had Lamb, Walker & your very own Barkley - more than ample depth and a real challenge for a young player to overcome - Spencer came later. Taylor was an injury signing mid season who was signed permanently for doing a good backup job. Robinson only left because Burns was doing so well and he has eclipsed a lot of decent FHs.

I can see why Burns wanted to move, he wanted to fight it out with our poor quality FHs, rather than take up against quality players such as Ryan Davis

Sir Geech gives the thumbs up when asked about Ben Morgan.

Done deal.

HERSH wrote:Sir Geech gives the thumbs up when asked about Ben Morgan.

Done deal.

Just like Gethin Jenkins?!

Sir Geech gives a cheeky wink when asked about Gethin.

Done deal.

HERSH:

Do you think that not being in the HC next year will affect Gloucester and Bath's recruitment of top players, hence my question why Morgan or any other top player joining a second tier (Amlin) team except for the money? Loyalty to you local club has limits (in the case of Morgan), look at the Ospreys their loyal players moved away chasing the money.?

HERSH wrote:Sir Geech gives a cheeky wink when asked about Gethin.

Done deal.

You should read your local rag, you've pulled out of signing him. Apparently you couldn't guarantee him HC rugby for at least 5 years...

Toulon can't exactly guarantee him HC rugby so maybe he'll stay in Wales...

Gowales:

You have got what I was saying, finally.

glamorganalun wrote:HERSH:

Do you think that not being in the HC next year will affect Gloucester and Bath's recruitment of top players, hence my question why Morgan or any other top player joining a second tier (Amlin) team except for the money? Loyalty to you local club has limits (in the case of Morgan), look at the Ospreys their loyal players moved away chasing the money.?

Is that a fact?

I think both Bath and Glaws will make the HC next year.

No worries

beshocked wrote:

DaveM wrote:
I wouldn't blow a lot of money on an average player like Cowan.

Yup Jimmy Cowan must be a pretty average scrum half to have played for New Zealand 40+ times.

Yes, he's an average SH. For NZ this is a position of relative weakness - I once read an explanation from a Kiwi which suggested the youth development emphasis on skills rather than size means that the best of the smaller players don't end up at SH as they do in many other countries. Cowan is an average SH, and certainly no worth £300k.