the rivalry that will define the next 2-3 years of tennis

No it isn't the played out and predictable Fedal rivalry. It isn't Rafa and Nole that to is way too one sided. Novak and Andy will battle for most of the honors and accolades over the next 2-3 years. There isn't anyone else on the horizon. Del Potro is a contender but he has been dominated by both these guys. Nadal is still there of course, but he is an old 25 with a lot of injury issues and a game that in my mind has stagnated a bit over the last 12 months. The way Murray hit his forehand today and how his defense and variety troubled Novak leads me to believe that Andy will be Novak's biggest rival, and vice versa Novak is the guy that will most often stand in Andy's way. roger is a living legend but he is riding into the sunset. None of the young guys are ready this year or next to challenge this duo. And if this match is any indicator I think tennis fans are in for a treat. Of course many critics are knocking the style of play and the plethora of errors. But I found this match to be gripping and entertaining and I think 80-90 percent of the people who watched felt the same, the fans were on their feet. And while this rivalry doesn't have the nostalgia or mystique yet of fedal, I think matches like the one we saw tonight will continue to engage the fans and the media a like.

I fully agree - bring it on

Murray has still a lot of improvement to do - he has only been with Lendl a few weeks. I'm not sure Djokovic has much more room for improvement. So we might see Murray overtaking Djokovic in six months to a years time.

Hopefully next time Murray will be drawn in Rafa's half, as I would like to see how he fares against him, with Lendl in his corner.

Yes, carrie I enjoyed tonight's match despite the web critics and there biased view of the match. It had everything good attacking, good defending, aces, winners, the occasional net foray. And most of all it was competive and turned on a razor's edge. Fed-nadal and Nadal-Djoko is way too predictable and I honestly don't feel like Federer or Nadal can improve much more and take the game to the next level.

Djokovic told Laver that he planned to serve and volley. Lets hope he has kind critics while he gets the hang of it.

I don;t expect Murrray and Djoko to trouble the young generation for that long.

break_in_the_fifth wrote:Djokovic told Laver that he planned to serve and volley. Lets hope he has kind critics while he gets the hang of it.

Nore Staat I disagree look at how much Novak has grown in the last 12 months. Novak more than any other player tries new things with his conditioning and with his game. He changed his serve and that was a disaster, but yet it was risk he took to get better. He changed his forehand and that worked out much better for him. His volleys have gotten a lot better although he isn't the second coming of mcenroe his volleying game is lightyears above what it was 2-3 years ago. His fitness is on another level to what we saw a couple of years ago. So I think Novak has the room to get better and so does murray. I don't see the same thing for fed or nadal.

Tenez, I don't see a player in the young generation that can challenge these guys who isn't at least 24 months away. Maybe tomic but even he has a lot of work to do. The other two would be raonic and harrison again a couple of years away. Del Potro is closer in terms to form but look at the head to head these two guys seem to have his number.

I'm afraid I don't agree, things move on and I suspect that within two years they'll be being surpassed. This type of game is wearing.

You might be right Socal. I just saw Murray over the past 18 months as a little directionless and not addressing his "obvious" weaknesses (inconsistency etc). Hopefully with Lendl we will get to see Murrays true potential. It's a shame that he didn't employ Lendl 18 months ago, but at least he has him now.

@ Socal - You didn't see Djoko coming and troubling the top 2 like he did last year either. I did!

Make those young guys a tiny bit better and will see. It's a very flat pyramid!...even if it doesn't look like it for now.

socal1976 wrote:Yes, carrie I enjoyed tonight's match despite the web critics and there biased view of the match. It had everything good attacking, good defending, aces, winners, the occasional net foray. And most of all it was competive and turned on a razor's edge. Fed-nadal and Nadal-Djoko is way too predictable and I honestly don't feel like Federer or Nadal can improve much more and take the game to the next level.

I enjoy watching all of the top players but I think this will be the top rivalry for the next few years. I am really looking forward to the next time they meet - Cooooome oooooooooooooon Murraay! None of the younger players are really looking like mounting a serious consistent challenge for quite some time - if at all in most cases.

Nore Staat, a lot of us have been yelling for a big time coach for murray for a long time. Not having one has definetly stunted his career. But Murray is a supremely talented tennis player and he is the guy that can challenge Novak and push him. Nadal hasn't been able to, and Roger is probably thinking about the olympics and a nice law chair on the beach somewhere.

BB there game does take wear and tear but anyone else who wants to reach the top is also going to have to pay a price and outside of Rafa and Roger no one else is close. Rafa I think still has more grandslams in him as well, but he just better hope Djoko isn't the guy he is facing in the final.

Tenez wrote:@ Socal - You didn't see Djoko coming and troubling the top 2 like he did last year either. I did!

Make those young guys a tiny bit better and will see. It's a very flat pyramid!...even if it doesn't look like it for now.

Tenez I actually predicted that Novak would win a grandslam title in 2011 back in 2010. Going back to the old serve motion and how well he played in getting to the final of the USO and winning the davis cup made me think he would get a slam in 2011. But of course I did not think he would get three. In fact, I did a thread on old 606 after the davis cup talking about how well Novak was serving after the 2010 DC and how this spelled trouble for the tour and people really tore in to me. I had a different name then though. But I won't lie I had no idea he would take number 1 and win 3 slams. I was predicting 1 slam.

Fed and Nadal can definitely still win the big ones and very likely will but, in terms of a great and unpredictable rivalry, I think Murrovic is the one to watch. Great to hear Murray say that he thinks Nole got the message that he can expect a match as hard as that every time they meet. Thems fighting words - love it!

Exactly, Carrie these two guys really played a helluva a match. And when both guys are healthy the matches they play have been very close and competitive overral. Murray is going to get his slam this year if he just keeps hitting his forehand as fiercely as he did tonight.

socal1976 wrote: I was predicting 1 slam.

But the point is a little improvement to a youngster can make a huge difference. And those youngsters are not that far off.

Tenez wrote:

socal1976 wrote: I was predicting 1 slam.

But the point is a little improvement to a youngster can make a huge difference. And those youngsters are not that far off.

True, I mean the margin between #50 and #1 is much smaller in terms of tennis technique than your average fan who doesn't play could ever imagine. But, and its a big but, I think the margin between the top 4 and the rest of the tour is bigger than it has been for some time. And I think both murray and Djoko have room for growth in their games. I think they still have untapped potential. Which for all they have accomplished, especially Djokovic that is saying a lot. Novak still has big wholes in his game that he is working on and has solidified, and murray seems to be getting there as well. The young guys will obviously track these guys down. But I think they are probably 24 months or more away.

PS By the way tenez remember that before Novak made his run to #1 he had been #3 in the world for 3 straight years and had a grandslam to his credit and a number of masters title and the year end masters as well. I don't see any young gun with near as much in terms of accomplishment.

I'll see if I agree with you after the final. I guess I'd like to.

It will be interesting to see what effect Lendl has on Murrays clay court game. Last year I was surprised how Murray pushed Djokovic so close in the Rome Masters semi-final and how he managed to get to the semi-final at Roland Garros. In the Rome Masters, Djokovic seemed to be at the point of collapse when facing Murray but somehow managed to pull through. Djokovic then "crushed" Nadal the very next day in straight sets.

Nore Staat wrote:It will be interesting to see what effect Lendl has on Murrays clay court game. Last year I was surprised how Murray pushed Djokovic so close in the Rome Masters semi-final and how he managed to get to the semi-final at Roland Garros. In the Rome Masters, Djokovic seemed to be at the point of collapse when facing Murray but somehow managed to pull through. Djokovic then "crushed" Nadal the very next day in straight sets.

Yep, definitely looking forward to seeing if he can maintain or even improve on last years form.

ps Tenez: did you catch the quote from Murray after the match, the bit about having to wait around for 30 minutes for his WADA urine and BLOOD test. Presumably a player needs to spend time on the warm down in order to prevent muscles seizing up etc.

Nadal is just as much a "young" player as Djokovic or Murray.

hawkeye wrote:Nadal is just as much a "young" player as Djokovic or Murray.

It will be interesting to see whether Rafa's "weighted" racquet will have an effect on the outcome in the final.

I agree Hawkeye, but for me I see Nadal as more a finished product than the other two. In fact, I think Nadal will win more grandslams in the future. But I think that Murray and Djoko actually have more room for improvement.

I doubt a small adjustment will have much effect. Nadal has the game to beat Djokovic. He's done so before. Thats not saying that Djokovic isn't a great player however I havn't seen anything in his play that suggests he's unbeatable.

I don't understand how Nadal doesn't fit in the same age group as Djokovic and Murray. The difference in age can be measured in months as he's less than a year older than both.

Nore Staat wrote:ps Tenez: did you catch the quote from Murray after the match, the bit about having to wait around for 30 minutes for his WADA urine and BLOOD test. Presumably a player needs to spend time on the warm down in order to prevent muscles seizing up etc.

No I didn;t hear that. Interesting. What I heard is that WADA would not run tests at slams anymore...but a bit more outside competition.

socal1976 wrote:I agree Hawkeye, but for me I see Nadal as more a finished product than the other two. In fact, I think Nadal will win more grandslams in the future. But I think that Murray and Djoko actually have more room for improvement.

In tennis terms all three are at an age when players often play their best. They can perhaps make minor technical or tactical improvements but as mature players I doubt there will be any big changes.

hawkeye wrote:

socal1976 wrote:I agree Hawkeye, but for me I see Nadal as more a finished product than the other two. In fact, I think Nadal will win more grandslams in the future. But I think that Murray and Djoko actually have more room for improvement.

In tennis terms all three are at an age when players often play their best. They can perhaps make minor technical or tactical improvements but as mature players I doubt there will be any big changes.

Nadal has played way more longer matches and it will take more toll on him than DJokovic or Murray... it's a very simple concept even for a Nadal fan..

hawkeye wrote:I doubt a small adjustment will have much effect. Nadal has the game to beat Djokovic. He's done so before. Thats not saying that Djokovic isn't a great player however I havn't seen anything in his play that suggests he's unbeatable.

I don't understand how Nadal doesn't fit in the same age group as Djokovic and Murray. The difference in age can be measured in months as he's less than a year older than both.

It's a long time ago that Djokovic got on top of Nadal. 9 out of he last 11, and those two were the US Open after he played 5 in the 2nd semi, and the " contact lens" match at the WTF.

You have to back to Madrid '09 for the previous win and even then it was the tiniest of margins with mps saved.

He's had his number for almost three years.

have to agree with BB, plus many of Nadal's wins came when Novak was tailspinning on serve after he changed his service motion. Even early on in their career Novak had a superior hardcourt win percentage against Nadal. I think Nadal can beat Djokovic but I actually think the margin between the two in their matchup is bigger than just a minor adjustment and some better execution. Nadal's heavy spinning balls feed into Djoko's strength. Djoko likes the ball up on his two hander and he prefers the ball up on his big western forehand as well.

Murray has the variety with the slice backhand, some good volleys and if he steps up into the court a flatter backhand and forehand that can trouble Novak more in my mind.