All Out Cricket's Discussion of the Week - Who is the best all-rounder in the world?

First topic message reminder :

Despite Pakistan's dramatic comeback, Stuart Broad showed once again in Abu Dhabi why he is rated as one of the world's best all-rounders:

http://www.alloutcricket.com/blogs/comment/game-changer-pakistan-v-england-stuart-broad

But who do you think is the best all-rounder in the world?

Kiwireddevil wrote:

Stella wrote:So, with everyone fit. Vettori would be batting at six?

It will depend on the pitch, but if it looks like it'll seam around NZ are going to try and play 4 quicks, with Watling at 7. He may also bat there in the sub-continent with a 2nd spinner in the team.

In South Africa or Australia I expect they'll go with 4 bowlers (especially if Ryder is fit to bowl 10-15 overs an innings).

Perhaps I was a little hard on Vettori but I still say that if he couldn't bowl then he wouldn't be in the team if everybody was available.

I look back to my original post on this article where I thought that Shakib, Vettori and Bravo were the best allrounders there are ATM, but quantified it by saying that might just be because of the relative weakness of their respective nations.
I would add though, that I think Vettori seems to easily be one of NZs best 6 batsmen ATM and is currently the best batsman of the bowling allrounders, but Broad has the talent and time to overtake him in that regard.

...but none of that matters really because there still isn't anyone who is actually good enough in both disciplines to be classed as a true allround talent, players like that are as rare as hens teeth.

Stella wrote:

Kiwireddevil wrote:

Stella wrote:So, with everyone fit. Vettori would be batting at six?

It will depend on the pitch, but if it looks like it'll seam around NZ are going to try and play 4 quicks, with Watling at 7. He may also bat there in the sub-continent with a 2nd spinner in the team.

In South Africa or Australia I expect they'll go with 4 bowlers (especially if Ryder is fit to bowl 10-15 overs an innings).

Perhaps I was a little hard on Vettori but I still say that if he couldn't bowl then he wouldn't be in the team if everybody was available.

I think he'd be pretty close - he'd be touring as "spare" batsman at least. At the moment the top batsmen in NZ are

Openers - Guptill and McCullum, with Kruger van Wyk 1st reserve

Middle-order - from Williamson, Taylor (injured), Ryder (injured), Brownlee, Vettori, Watling

Next cabs off the rank in terms of runs in NZ domestic cricket this season are James Franklin (ouch), Luke Woodcock (double ouch, he's a very poor man's Vettori), Hamish Marshall (unavailable) then Colin de Grandhomme, Peter Ingram (ouch) and Matthew Sinclair (ouch)

NZ called up Sam Wells as 13th man for their last test. He averages ~30 with bat and ball in NZ 1st class cricket, hardly inspiring.

IMO the NZ side should be:

1.Guptill
2.McCullum
3.Willamson
4.Taylor
5.Ryder
6.Browlie
7.Young (wk)
8.Vettori
9.Southee
10.Boult
11.Martin

cricketfan90 wrote:IMO the NZ side should be:

1.Guptill
2.McCullum
3.Willamson
4.Taylor
5.Ryder
6.Browlie
7.Young (wk)
8.Vettori
9.Southee
10.Boult
11.Martin

I like that side, except for Young at 7, I'd switch him and Vettori even if Young was at peak form - he's been dropped for dropping a couple of clangers vs Australia as well as lack of runs.

yh maybe swap vettori and young thats what i was pondring....however IMO that is NZ'S best side.

Mike Selig wrote:

rich1uk wrote:on the shakib thing , for me it just shows how flawed some of the ICC rankings are

here is a guy who is ranked as the #1 all-rounder in test cricket and i doubt he would even get a game for any of the top 5 or 6 teams

he scores alot of points in the forumla purely because the rest of the bangladesh team are so bad he bowls a helluva lot of overs and hes at best a decent #6 or #7

I disagree entirely. I think if he played for one of the top teams, he'd receive coaching and back-up which would allow him to do his considerable talent far greater justice. He is easily good enough to average 45 or so with the bat, and high 20s with the ball (based on talent alone). However playing for Bangladesh:
1) puts a huge amount of pressure on his performance: he is their best bat and their best bowler, and for a while had to captain the side as well.
2) means he doesn't have to fight for his place, no he doesn't knuckle down enough with the bat.

Make no mistake about it, he is quite possibly the 2nd best spinner around at the moment in world cricket. Most test sides would love him in their team.

Back here after a week or so, and right away I have to completely disagree with rich here.
England I think, would prefer Shakib over Morgan at 6, or possibly 7, as Prior is a better bat. Morgan hasn't quite proved himself with the bat as yet, and Shakib has a couple of test hundreds and close to 100 test wickets, averaging in the early 30s with bat and ball.
South Africa would gladly take him in place of the waning Prince, and that would let them play even 4 quicks if they want.
India haven't found a decent, consistent number 6 since Sourav Ganguly retired, and no real all-rounder since Kapil Dev retired in 1994. Although R Ashwin and Pragyan Ojha did fine in the recent home series against the WI, Shakib at this stage, is a better bowler than either of them, and he's a far better bat.
Australia is kind of managing with Lyon, but they'd be happy to exchange him for Shakib any day, and at present, he can bat ahead of Haddin.
Pakistan too should be happy to take him in for Asad Shafiq in their lineup.
Sreelanka would happyly oblige him in place of any of there bowlers other than Herath and may be Chanaka.
Shakib is any day a better bat and bowl than the yes man who finds himself captaining the West Indies side and gets classed as an all-rounder for unknown reasons.
Shakib is a better package than most of NZ's top order batters other than McCullum, Taylor and Dan.
He's better than most of Zimbabwe's usual 11.
He's ranked very rightly among the top all-rounders in present times. Stuart Broad is not as good a bat as Shakib is. Broad's bowling has really come along in the last 8 months or so, but Shakib isn't been very far behind.
For me Kallis still is the top boy, although he doesn't bowl all that in recent times.
Then its Vetori, followed by Shakib, Watson, Broad and Hafeez.

IMO hafeez is a better all-rounder than broad...

broad isnt anywhere near consistent enough with the bat to be classed as an-allrounder

NZ's best ever batter is Chris the Fantom, and no debate shall be allowed henceforth on that!!!!!!.
But seriously, I think Dan Vettori is pretty much among the best New Zealand batsmen of recent times. Don't think many have averaged higher in the last 5 years. And he's certainly their best boler at the moment. Vettori's overall career test batting average is 30.6 which isn't bad for an all-rounder. We have to put it in context, Martin Guptill averages 33, Brendan Mc Cullum 36. Only Brownly, Taylor, and Ryder average over 40, and none above 45.