BBC reckon Dowson will be capped this weekend

RBS Six Nations: Scotland v England
Venue: Murrayfield Date: 4 February Kick-off: 1700 GMT Coverage: Live on BBC TV, HD, Red Button, BBC Radio 5 live and online
Uncapped back-rower Phil Dowson looks set to make his England debut in their Six Nations opener against Scotland.

Dowson's Northampton team-mate Calum Clark is one of eight players released back to their clubs who will miss out on selection for Saturday's match.

Dowson is one of four back-rowers retained, alongside captain Chris Robshaw, blind-side Tom Croft and uncapped number eight Ben Morgan.

Interim England boss Stuart Lancaster will name the England team on Thursday.

Bath pair Matt Banahan and Dave Attwood are among the eight players released.

Alex Goode, Lee Mears, Joe Simpson, Thomas Waldrom and David Wilson will also be available for this weekend's LV= Cup games.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/16824070.stm

It is about time Dowson got capped for England. I feel he should of been capped wayyyyyyy before now.

This is unexpected, would have thought he'd be underdog behind the other three retained. Must be emphasis on developing strength in depth from Lancaster.

Looking likely that Croft will be benched with a starting lineup of 6. Robshaw 7. Dowson 8. Morgan. Not being an England expert does that sound right? Which back row position does Robshaw generally specialise in?

Nah the back row will be 6. Croft 7. Robshaw 8. Morgan with Dowson on the bench due to his versatilty to play 6, 7 and 8.

I'm expecting the team to look like this..

1. Marler
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Botha
5. Palmer
6. Croft
7. Robshaw
8. Morgan
9. Youngs
10. Hodgson
11. Strettle
12. Farrell
13. Barritt
14. Ashton
15. Foden

16. Stevens
17. Webber
18. Parling
19. Dowson
20. Dickson
21. Turner-Hall
22. Brown

robshaw4england wrote:Nah the back row will be 6. Croft 7. Robshaw 8. Morgan with Dowson on the bench due to his versatilty to play 6, 7 and 8.

I'm expecting the team to look like this..

1. Marler
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Botha
5. Palmer
6. Croft
7. Robshaw
8. Morgan
9. Youngs
10. Hodgson
11. Strettle
12. Farrell
13. Barritt
14. Ashton
15. Foden

16. Stevens
17. Webber
18. Parling
19. Dowson
20. Dickson
21. Turner-Hall
22. Brown

I don't think it will be marler.

Someone on twitter was saying that Dowson is set to start. Either way he's bound to get on the pitch at some point.

I'd sure Marler will get a cap at some point, but it may not be this weekend which is understandable against Murray in Edinburgh. BBC reckon he's more likely than Stevens to be sent back. He's actually in better scrummaging form than Corbisiero though, if the Edinburgh vs LI game is anything to go by. I happened to be at that game, so of that was out if the ordinary I'm willing to be corrected, but he had a bad day, while Marler and Johnston have hit gear in the Quins scrum in the last few weeks.

Almost all of Quins' scrum penalties come at tighthead. Generally with Johnson failing his bind. Quins' also have big problems when Kohn and Robson aren't playing as Vallejos doesn't seem to push as hard as you'd expect and the other option is 20 year old Matthews. Marler generally holds his own (although he's not a dominant scrumager). He also did very well in the saxons with a decent scrummaging pack around him.

One of the suggestions on the BBC website is Croft 6, Dowson 7 and Robshaw 8 That's crazy. Dowson's got much more experience at 8 and the only real difference in 8 and 7 (assuming that the 3 players are fixed) is that they control the ball in the scrum. If we assume Croft and Robshaw are flankers then either Dowson or Morgan are 8. Otherwise I'll eat my [metaphorical] hat.

I'm actually pretty excited by the upcoming game. Possibly because I've got no idea what's going to happen. There's a chance (a small chance) that we won't play like turds for brains.

HammerofThunor wrote:Almost all of Quins' scrum penalties come at tighthead. Generally with Johnson failing his bind. Quins' also have big problems when Kohn and Robson aren't playing as Vallejos doesn't seem to push as hard as you'd expect and the other option is 20 year old Matthews. Marler generally holds his own (although he's not a dominant scrumager). He also did very well in the saxons with a decent scrummaging pack around him.

yes, and this has been further shown in the last few weeks with Kohn coming back and Johnston putting in his best scrummaging performances for Quins. Marler has looked impressive alongside them.

People seem to forget that the reason why 20 year old Marler (even after O'Shea said they wouldn't play him too much) became first choice was because he was much much better in the scrum than Ceri Jones (not saying much). Kohn makes a massive difference. I would have thought that Vallejos would have been better (possibly because he seems like a big Argentinos lock)

HammerofThunor wrote:One of the suggestions on the BBC website is Croft 6, Dowson 7 and Robshaw 8 That's crazy. Dowson's got much more experience at 8 and the only real difference in 8 and 7 (assuming that the 3 players are fixed) is that they control the ball in the scrum. If we assume Croft and Robshaw are flankers then either Dowson or Morgan are 8. Otherwise I'll eat my [metaphorical] hat.

I'm actually pretty excited by the upcoming game. Possibly because I've got no idea what's going to happen. There's a chance (a small chance) that we won't play like turds for brains.

Ever since Wood was officially ruled out I've thought it was going to be 6. Croft, 7. Robshaw & 8. Dowson with Morgan on the bench. I agree, I hope Dowson is at 8 and not 7. He can do a job at 7 but being a Saints fan I feel it's his weakest position (6 probably being his best but he is a decent 8).

With these player releases I now expect the team to be

Corbiserio Hartley Cole
Botha Palmer
Croft Robshaw Dowson
Youngs Hodgson
Barritt Farrell
Strettle Foden Ashton

Webber Stevens Parling Morgan
Dickson Turner-Hall Sharples

If the beeb are correct and Robshaw is going to be at 8 then it can only be that Lancaster wants him, Wood and Croft to be the first choice backrow when they are all fit and he wants to get Robshaw playing at 8 straight away. And why not, it's not like he's not got enough on his plate with captaining the side and being massively inexperienced at this level. Not to mention playing up in Murryfield with a pack that may be a little under-powered. I hope he is as super human as people seem to think.

The BBC doesn't say Robshaw will be at 8. They say it may be Croft, Dowson, Robshaw or it may be Croft, Robshaw, Morgan. All the really say is Croft is at 6 and Robshaw will be starting.

I agree completely with that Thunor.

I'd expect to see Croft, Robshaw, Morgan start. But we could see Dowson, Robshaw, Morgan or Robshaw, Dowson, Morgan.

So many possibilities and that's just the backrow, add in centres and front row and then the bench and it could be anything!

The make-up of the back row may be irrelevant as the front 5 will be seriously underpowerd compared to Scotland.

This has to be the least experienced squad ever for England in a 6Ns match.

I am quite glad that I will be travelling back south from Welford Rd while the game is going on. If it is as bad as I fear i can just pretend it never happened, while if England actually do something unexpected i can watch the recording.

Garvey needs to be promoted quickly....

Last I heard Thomas Waldron was in line for an England cap this weekend.

emack2 wrote:Last I heard Thomas Waldron was in line for an England cap this weekend.

As he was one of the 8 players released to play for their clubs this weekend that is exceedingly unlikely.

Corbs has been scrummaging poorly for weeks now but it still seems England want to start with him. You need a player who can play TH on the bench so it's almost certain Marler will be released and Stevens retained.

And what on earth has JTH done to be retained? He's also been in poor form recently and England will start with two ICs at centre and with another on the bench. Suffice it to say the balance could be better.

Yeah im a little concerned about Corbs v Murray at the moment...Murray is playing fairly well and Corbs...well he isnt!

Too be honest im its 1,4, 5, and 6 (if Croft starts) that concerns me.

I think whether Lancaster is prioritising the breakdown or carries more will play a large part in the choice between Dowson & Morgan at 8.

Particularly with Wood out, I think the breakdown will be a more key battle and would lean towards Dowson. I also feel bringing Morgan on from the bench as opposed to starting him in an inexperienced side away at Murrayfield would be better management of a young player on debut.

So could be a youthful fresh england team announced today?

It would appear that they are edging towards

6 Croft
7 Robshaw
8 Dowson

Will that be the likely backrow come 2015?

Are we seeing the start of a new Hill, Back Dayglo?

It will be a struggle for Phil Dowson to make the 2015 squad as he would be 34 by then. His clubmate, Tom Wood, would be playing (and Captain) were it not for injury. Morgan should only get better and younger players such as Crane, Guest and Fearns will be in the mix.

He has a fantastic rugby brain but when Saints have been selecting for the big games at full strength he has seemed to be their second choice 6 (behind Clark), 7 (behind Wood) and 8 (behind Wilson).

LondonTiger wrote:It will be a struggle for Phil Dowson to make the 2015 squad as he would be 34 by then. His clubmate, Tom Wood, would be playing (and Captain) were it not for injury. Morgan should only get better and younger players such as Crane, Guest and Fearns will be in the mix.

He has a fantastic rugby brain but when Saints have been selecting for the big games at full strength he has seemed to be their second choice 6 (behind Clark), 7 (behind Wood) and 8 (behind Wilson).

Maybe the BBC have got this wrong then, he doesn't sound very good?

I have seen Saints four or five times this season on TV and hadn't noticed him. Morgan is a very good player, though. So you have depth. Didnt realise Dowson was in his thirties. Might as well have picked Easter or Waldrom if not going for a youngster with talent...?

But does it matter that it wont be the flipping Back row for 2015!!!

Its 2012 and we are going into the 6n with an almost new side. Sod the WC

Build a squad now...and then tweak it as we go like a building a jigsaw.

As LT said also...we have had injuries...

Dowson is, and has been a really good club player. He has done really well for Lancaster with the Saxons and would be decent bench cover. What has held him back has been the physical side to his game - not quick enough to be a 7, not big enough to be an 8 etc.

I just wish we could swap his brain with James Haskell - that would be one hell of a back row player.


(GF - no I do not believe we shoul dbe selecting the 2015 squad now. I like PSA's attitude with France - select the best team and make people have to deserve their chance based on ability not just hoping they will develop).

This is a lightweight England pack by the look of it and suggests that they might try and run the Scots off their feet. Scotland will stick the ball up their jumpers, keep it tight and hope to drive these lightweight players into oblivion. High risk from England but good from a developmental point of view. I've never been a fan of Easter but he might have been a good counterbalance in such a lightweight set up. I cannot see beyond anyone at number 8 apart from Morgan who is a specialist bullocking 8 in a similar mould to Quinnell.

Morgan has looked decent in the games he's played for Scarlets in the PRO12, but that's not been against the best that league has to offer. He's still surprisingly never played against Heaslip, O'Brien, Ferris, Faletau or Lydiate. Until he faces an examination of that level questions will remain over how fully formed his talent is.

If he was stand out better in training he surely would have been selected to start. That he wasn't would suggest he's not quite there yet and the sensible young player management of easing him into international rugby is being followed.

Very telling of how highly the coaches rate him will be if he gets the start against Italy.