What can Nadal´s team think of for the next final with Novak?

The lesson which Nadal got from AO final must be really annoying for him and his team. Previous matches were not so long and Novak outplayed Nadal easily without a big exhaustion. Therefore there was a big chance and question, if Nadal can win it after Novak tough match with Murray taking one day less for the rest. And what we saw, Novak played without any hurry, in a calm way as if he was confident that he will win it even if it takes very long time. What is more, the end of the final was like a fairytale for Nole. He arisen like Fenix from ashes and did not give him any chance. Will Nadal´s team know what to change it in the next match? I do have doubts that a new added weight to his racket will be a way, what do you think?

This is my message to Nadal's team:
Rafa, learn to dance....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlsNg3oxmok&feature=related

I think the next final will be more of the same, especially if it's at the French Open. After all this was the closest of all their slam finals.

The surprising thing is Nadal led 4-2 in the fifth set.

BPs converted - Djokovic 7/20, Nadal 4/6.
UEs 69, 71
Winners 57, 44

The winner UE differential is a significant -12 and -27.

The BP numbers remind me of Federer being 1/17 in BPs against Nadal at FO.

The Djokovic-Nadal match could have been over much earlier, but the end scoreline does not show that.

W 2011 and USO 2011 are very similar where Djokovic went walkabout.

While Nadal is a great player/fighter without a doubt but Djoko 2.0 is just a bad match up for his style, its not gonna be easy for Nadal and his team to counter an effective strategy against him, he has to face the same fate at the hands of Djoko of what he inflicted on Federer.

Nadal needs to hit a flat forehand up the line. I like how he mixed in a lot slice backhands. Novak is a player who doesn't particularly like a low hard sliced shot that draws him into the court and doesn't give him any pace or height to work with. He needs to use that slice to draw Novak up into the court and into the net as opposed to let Novak come in on his own terms. Nadal also has to actually go after the second serve and try to hit some winners off Novak's second serve as opposed to just getting a deep return back which is what he does against most players.

socal1976 wrote:Nadal needs to hit a flat forehand up the line. I like how he mixed in a lot slice backhands. Novak is a player who doesn't particularly like a low hard sliced shot that draws him into the court and doesn't give him any pace or height to work with. He needs to use that slice to draw Novak up into the court and into the net as opposed to let Novak come in on his own terms. Nadal also has to actually go after the second serve and try to hit some winners off Novak's second serve as opposed to just getting a deep return back which is what he does against most players.

He won't like hitting more flat forehands up the line - that's shot with a lower margin for error than his staple fare. There may be room for more slice backhands though - in their matches Nadal is frequently the player who provides the pace that Djoko can feed off. If he's going to hit more winners off the 2nd serve he's going to hit a flatter ball (risky again) or find angles, which Djoko seems to deal pretty well with.

Barrystar, I don't think he can win against Novak unless he gets more aggressive and just lets Novak dictate. Novak has more weapons than nadal and after 10 hours of tennis in 48 hours has proven that he isn't the guy you want to try to grind out wins. So the only opition left to him is to get aggressive and take the initiative earlier in points.

Learn how to serve and volley now Nadull, there is no better time.

socal1976 wrote:Barrystar, I don't think he can win against Novak unless he gets more aggressive and just lets Novak dictate. Novak has more weapons than nadal and after 10 hours of tennis in 48 hours has proven that he isn't the guy you want to try to grind out wins. So the only opition left to him is to get aggressive and take the initiative earlier in points.

I am afraid but you dpn't understand that the more agressive Nadal gets the better it is for the opposition....including Djoko. most of us said his best chance to improve was to become even fitter and provide the opposition even smaller target while being able to last longer.

This is exactly what he did and this is why this time around he was able to lat 5 sets instead of 4 like in the US. Nadal keeps getting fitter as Federer learnt recently. That is Nadal only solution...It keeps him ahead of Federer but unlikely that he will catch Nole up.

socal1976 wrote:Barrystar, I don't think he can win against Novak unless he gets more aggressive and just lets Novak dictate. Novak has more weapons than nadal and after 10 hours of tennis in 48 hours has proven that he isn't the guy you want to try to grind out wins. So the only opition left to him is to get aggressive and take the initiative earlier in points.

Couldn't agree more - which is why he's so screwed against Djoko. He knows from US and Aus that he can't outlast Djoko, and he knows Djoko is a match for him on all surfaces when they aren't climbing mountains. His early career was based on working out how to grind the Federer SHBH down from the starting point of being an excellent defensive/clay court player - I think Djoko will be a challenge too far.

Nadal should get more aggressive, but there's only one way to do it succesfully and it is by more aggressive returning. Djokovic puts Nadal under pressure right off the return, Nadal should do the same to Djokovic. Djokovic' serve wasn't very good at the AO, but Nadal didn't take advantage of it, hitting neutral returns from 2-3m behind the baseline.

Barry and Tenez you could be right. But nadal did get pretty close in the AO. Novak wasn't at his best and was obviously a tiny bit jaded from his semi with Murray. That is why I have always said that Murray is Novak's biggest challenger. I think Novak is just a tough matchup for Nadal.

It will be interesting to see if Murray can raise it just that half notch more, because I really think he is the toughest challenge Djokovic will face in the approximate near term.

Nadals serve is generally consistent, he just needs to start bludgeoning the returns as mentioned by Chyd, also Nadal needs to do what DJokovic does, return the ball to his feet so he can't put you under pressure, and go down the line more..

barrystar wrote:

socal1976 wrote:Barrystar, I don't think he can win against Novak unless he gets more aggressive and just lets Novak dictate. Novak has more weapons than nadal and after 10 hours of tennis in 48 hours has proven that he isn't the guy you want to try to grind out wins. So the only opition left to him is to get aggressive and take the initiative earlier in points.

Couldn't agree more - which is why he's so screwed against Djoko. He knows from US and Aus that he can't outlast Djoko, and he knows Djoko is a match for him on all surfaces when they aren't climbing mountains. His early career was based on working out how to grind the Federer SHBH down from the starting point of being an excellent defensive/clay court player - I think Djoko will be a challenge too far.

BUt Nadal will never be able to produce the agressive shots that Federer produces..and yet they are not good enough to beat Nole...though quite close. I cannot imagine Nadal getting any close to beating Djoko with more agressive shots.

Djoko has been tired and out of shape the last 2 times he beat Nadal. Wimbledon is teh closest he has been to top form and that one very one sided bar a lapse of concentration from Djoko.

I believe that peak Djoko would beat peak Nadal 62 62 62. Expect a score like that very soon.

Tenez wrote:Djoko has been tired and out of shape the last 2 times he beat Nadal. Wimbledon is teh closest he has been to top form and that one very one sided bar a lapse of concentration from Djoko.

I believe that peak Djoko would beat peak Nadal 62 62 62. Expect a score like that very soon.

A straight sets victory is certainly possible. Might even happen at Roland Garros.

chydremion, i don't know I think Nadal was still closer to where he had to be in this match despite Novak's tough semi. We will see i think RG is going to be very revealing. But at the end of the day it is 7 straight wins.

Unfortunately, while it may seem Nadal got closer, history shows that with every loss you get further away. It was a honorable loss by Nadal, but still a loss, and should be a devastating one.

After AO 09 I also thought Federer was closer to Nadal, that he just had to serve better next time and he would win. Never happened.

I think everything has been revealed in the Djokovic-Nadal rivalry. Even French Open won't throw in a surprise. Nadal is in for a tough year. I wonder how long this has to continue before the press calls for retirement.

Well I would be happy if he never beat Djoko again. But we will see i am not ready to write him off yet. Still I think he does need to get aggressive on Novak's second.

socal1976 wrote:Well I would be happy if he never beat Djoko again. But we will see i am not ready to write him off yet. Still I think he does need to get aggressive on Novak's second.

He does need to, but he seems reluctant (or unable) to make any significant changes to his game. Like I said before the final, a few grams of lead tape aren't going to make the difference.

Probably Rafa used up a lot of mental energy in getting past the king in the semi's, it's the curse of beating Federer before the final. Nadal's final was in the semi and Djokovic is always a downgrade from playing Federer.

Nadal got closer in the 'one more heave' sense, but it wasn't quite enough. There is a small chance that if he keeps heaving he might catch Djoko in sufficiently bad form to sneak a win, but it's hardly a very promising approach. It's tough - there's no dishonour in the defeat, he should of course be proud of how far he pushed a man who is now clearly the superior player, but I really don't see how that can give him comfort for the future.

For me he needs to get out of his comfort zone and go after Djoko more aggressively to win, but that will probably make him more vulnerable against others as well as against Djoko, certainly in the short term. If he doesn't however, he is destined to keep on being the bridesmaid with an ever-decreasing chance of sneaking a win.

I think he'll also need to think about Murray in his wing mirror.

That is clearly obvious from your reactions that if Nadal wants to have any chance to succeed with Novak, then he needs to play more aggresive. I agree with Socal, that playing sliced balls in order to draw Novak up to the net can cause him inconvenience, but that is more defending style again. Then I can not see that Nadal can play more flatter hits, which is firmly rooted in him. Here, it is not possible to change it at this stage. I could not also understand the position of Nadal when returning. Does his Toni advise him to stand there or was he out of thinking? He was absolutely lost in his choice, like a little tennis pupil. I had a feeling that if they play more games, Nadal would rather run away from the court. That style is a catastrophe! I hope that Murray will also roll him if he keeps his composure. I see soon that Novak and Murray will play against each other in finals.

paulcz wrote: I hope that Murray will also roll him if he keeps his composure. I see soon that Novak and Murray will play against each other in finals.

Let's not jump to conclusions. I don't think Murray has beaten a top 3 player for a few years now.

Speculation speculation and speculation, Novak played great to win, but not to forget Rafa played good too, if Novak would not have discovered his mental strength, Rafa would have won 3 extra slams now and his slam counts be reading as 13.

If my Auntie had balls she'd be my Uncle..

Yes, mental strength has a big role, but you need to have a skill. Somebody can appreciate a defensive style, but if Nadal was beaten 6th time in a row, then he should know that this does not work. Nadal is good player, but the style he lost was horrible to look at and was not efficient either. Imagine that Nadal would play with a player with the same style. I will not watch it and this answer I got from many.
Murray is the case of strange mindset. I am not sure if Ivan can force into him more positive approach and concentration when playin big matches, but he has a potential to beat Nadal. I saw better tennis from him, but there is still a problem in his head. If he is not winning a slam this year, then Ivan will not coach him long time. All predictions are speculations!

Such a long thread when the answer to the thread title is nothing at all. No hope. Ownership s compete.

invisiblecoolers wrote:Speculation speculation and speculation, Novak played great to win, but not to forget Rafa played good too, if Novak would not have discovered his mental strength, Rafa would have won 3 extra slams now and his slam counts be reading as 13.

Or..if Novak had discovered it a year earlier, Rafa would have won 3 less slams and be on 7.
But neither of those things actually happened.