Ireland Team (Announced) vs Wales - 6Nations 2012 Round 1

First topic message reminder :

Here we go...

IRELAND Team & Replacements (v Wales, RBS 6 Nations Championship 2012, Aviva Stadium, Sunday, February 5th, kick-off 3pm):

15 -Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) Captain
6 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

16 -Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
18 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
19 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)

*Denotes uncapped player



ORIGINAL: So the Declan Kidney will be naming his team to face Wales at lunchtime today. In preparation for complete meltdown of 606v2 as is customary for all Ireland team selections I suggest that we keep everything to one thread, namely here.

I'm assuming this one will be broadcast live on irishrugby.ie and as such, I'll be posting that link here before the announcement is made.

Helmets at the ready folks, this could get ugly.

Anyways, i am reasonably happy with the team selected and with the injuries affecting the Welsh, i am starting to feel confident

How has the ROG - Sexton argument started again.

Honestly,...you leave these Irish alone for two minutes and they start fighting each other. Perhaps Wales should try that on Sunday, wait a few minutes before leaving the changing room.

ah bloody hell Ronan O'Gars is on the bloody bench, I can just see that sod coming off the bench and beating us with a drop goal or something!

Hold on a cotton-pickin... Sexton is not fast and cant pass? Unreal. They are are just 2 of his prime strengths. Ask the best teams in Europe. Those he has put to the sword using them. Kidney must be a right gobeen picking him so.

Jesus. I really wonder what games people watch and begin to wonder... Nah, be nice Gibbo. Good karma and all.
He is the best Standoff in Europe. Bar none.

He is lightning-fast for a Standoff. Incredibly strong in the tackle. Brain as sharp as a cut-throat razor. He is the best passer of a ball in the team. Whos better, huh? Its his phhoking job.

I really have a strong feeling we wont just beat Wales. Rather, we will beat them up and send them spiralling in the 6-N. Having the power, speed and strength of Trimble & Bowe on the wings. The super-snel, illusive and jinky Earls, alongside the experienced Darcy in the centre. With Sexton & Murray pulling the strings and orchastrating this gig... Man, I need a quick visit to de toilah. Need a J. Arthur just thinking about it. It will be rugby-porno. Leinster-style.

Ireland by 20, btw.

Believe.

P.S. Billy. No wine tonight bud. Just a few cans of draught Guinness. Drinking pints of Haut-Medoc is so passe...

We've heard it before Mr "G" but 20 points!

Taking it easy tonight Gibbo?

I was literally shocked when i read that Sexton supposodly was'nt fast. I had to honestly re-read it. He is one of the quickest 10's around. My mind was sent into a warp, then i imagined what you would write in response and ya didnt let me down mate

RubyGuby wrote:We've heard it before Mr "G" but 20 points!

Ah howya Ruby bud. The man who gives Welsh rugby a great name.

Wales have become like England used to be for us. A challenge. It got boring beating England. Now its time for a run at Cymru.

If you manage to get Priestland fit... I reckon it will be just by 10. Im nothing if not impartial & fair fy ffrind.

No sweat, 20 isn't that much by those standards. Think I recall Gibbo predict a 25-point margin a day or two ago. Must have only just started the night

For me, I've watched so many recent Irelands games where our centres die with the ball and so does our momentum. Last year was the epitome of that; really awful centre play. D'Arcy and Earls must vary the play and bring players in. And the main thing we have to is get people running lines off the centres.

If Earls gets a bit of space he can ghost through in the centre and I'm looking forward to seeing if we can manufacture any linebreaks in the middle of the field, but I'm unconvinced by our centres.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

newbie wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Oh ok shoulder, it just amazed me that. Sexton is one of the quickest OH's around.

As for his passing skills, well i think that he is pretty good off both hands as well..

I may be a Munsterman but things have to be kept in perspective

Yeah I only kept debating it because it is such a ridiculous statement.
It would be a bit like me saying RoG hasn't ever shown the ability to score drop goals when the pressure is on.

Do you always start discussing people in the third person during a valid discussion...tut tut...its bad manners.

Sexton is limited in his passing it has always been part of his problems originally anyway. He has certainly improved but he doesnt have the same range like O'Gara (or the new guy Madigan at the moment who has terrific hands). But as has been stated O'Gara tends to do it to far behind the gain line (although the complaint before was he did it too close to the gain line)...

I was answering a different poster in a seperate conversation,it just happens to be on the same thread but that's what happens on internet forums.

The debate was about his pace now I've cited several examples of how quick he is so don't go changing the subject just because you can't refute them.

I now realise why I dont come on this forum too much. Comprehension doesnt seem to be your best trait? I did not say he is slow I said I havent seen much evidence of his pace. He is not slow but speed is not his main attribute. You have given one example (not several) of some obscure play in the away game to Bath which was so good it cant be found on t'interweb and didnt end in a try. The one game where Leinster had an open game against Bath he played well and scored a try through great support play but that was it in terms of his excellence and it was Madigan who showed a real turn of speed and an eye for a gap to take his try. All I am saying is that he still has to prove himself as an international. He is a better option than O'Gara at this time, but it is not such a great thing given O'Garas age? ROG at the height of his powers in 06/07 scored tries regularly for Ireland (and was joint top try scorer I recall in the 07 6ns). I would like to see Sexton do the same but more importantly I would like to see him - for Ireland - show better game management, better consistency and to gain some confidence. He is not the finished article at the end of the 6ns we will have found out if he is ( a bit like earls in the centre). We have missed pace in the Centre and the ability to make breaks due to lack of pace. Now with Earls we dont have that excuse I hope Sexton will show the abilty to unlock the strong defence Wales will no doubt show no matter who they have playing. Not sure what is to controversial in that other than not agreeing completely with your view?

Just to note that given the injury problems Wales have we are on a hiding to nothing. It is a game we should win as we are at home. If we dont all hell will break loose.

Notch wrote:For me, I've watched so many recent Irelands games where our centres die with the ball and so does our momentum. Last year was the epitome of that; really awful centre play. D'Arcy and Earls must vary the play and bring players in. And the main thing we have to is get people running lines off the centres.

If Earls gets a bit of space he can ghost through in the centre and I'm looking forward to seeing if we can manufacture any linebreaks in the middle of the field, but I'm unconvinced by our centres.

Wait and see what we can muster from the walking wounded, but our defence has been the main part of our game. Especially the centers and back row

newbie wrote:Just to note that given the injury problems Wales have we are on a hiding to nothing. It is a game we should win as we are at home. If we dont all hell will break loose.

I may not agree with your points above about Sexton but here we are in agreement. Let's sum up all 6 pages of previous posts now less the 96 hours before match time. If we don't beat Wales we really are up Poopie creek without a paddle. DOC, D'Arcy, no BOD, Sexton vs ROG. Fire that all to one side. Wales are a team beset by injuries to key players all over the park. We should be looking to turn them over comfortably at home.

All hell will surely break loose. A full strength Welsh side would have me still sitting on the fence but with all of their injuries, Ireland really should win.

Que aweful display by Ireland.

WillyGilly wrote:

newbie wrote:Just to note that given the injury problems Wales have we are on a hiding to nothing. It is a game we should win as we are at home. If we dont all hell will break loose.

I may not agree with your points above about Sexton but here we are in agreement. Let's sum up all 6 pages of previous posts now less the 96 hours before match time. If we don't beat Wales we really are up Poopie creek without a paddle. DOC, D'Arcy, no BOD, Sexton vs ROG. Fire that all to one side. Wales are a team beset by injuries to key players all over the park. We should be looking to turn them over comfortably at home.

Well said Willy!

Willy,

Whilst we have a few injuries I don't think its all that bad

Jenkins out - James is a better scrummager and played his part in the WC

Rees out - Didnt play any part in WC so we have similar front row to WC

AWJ/Charteris out - Ok this is a blow but Davies was 1st choice before WC and Evans has been tipped for long time.

Lydiate possibly out - Will be a blow but Ryan Jones has been pplaying well and bags of experience.

Priestland possibly out - Wasnt 1st choice before the WC and form has been hit n miss this season.

Roberts possibly out - This is the big one for me, if he plays then I can see Earls have a tough afternoon, who replaces him if not Beck the form player and should start but we all know who is in the squad to.

newbie wrote:

I now realise why I dont come on this forum too much. Comprehension doesnt seem to be your best trait? I did not say he is slow I said I havent seen much evidence of his pace. He is not slow but speed is not his main attribute. You have given one example (not several) of some obscure play in the away game to Bath which was so good it cant be found on t'interweb and didnt end in a try. The one game where Leinster had an open game against Bath he played well and scored a try through great support play but that was it in terms of his excellence and it was Madigan who showed a real turn of speed and an eye for a gap to take his try. All I am saying is that he still has to prove himself as an international. He is a better option than O'Gara at this time, but it is not such a great thing given O'Garas age? ROG at the height of his powers in 06/07 scored tries regularly for Ireland (and was joint top try scorer I recall in the 07 6ns). I would like to see Sexton do the same but more importantly I would like to see him - for Ireland - show better game management, better consistency and to gain some confidence. He is not the finished article at the end of the 6ns we will have found out if he is ( a bit like earls in the centre). We have missed pace in the Centre and the ability to make breaks due to lack of pace. Now with Earls we dont have that excuse I hope Sexton will show the abilty to unlock the strong defence Wales will no doubt show no matter who they have playing. Not sure what is to controversial in that other than not agreeing completely with your view?

Nice,start insulting when you can't win an argument.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTbVoGm8k7U

Here you go 1.50 seconds in is an example of how quick he is,I'll fing more later tonight if that's not enough for you.I don't care what RoG did in 06/07 this isn't a comparison I'm simply challenging your statement that he doesn't have great gas.He has fantastic pace now I agree he hasn't shown his enough with Ireland but in all honesty there isn't a back in the squad that has been performing well over the last few years.

I'll repeat the point so that there's no confusion I'm not comparing him with RoG or disputing that he needs to improve at international level to prove himself as a really top class OH I'm simply saying you're wrong when you say he doesn't have great pace.

Whatever about Priestland, I'd put money on Roberts being fit to play this weekend. Though I have a feeling that Priestland will be too.

For Wales I think the biggest question mark is over how their tight 5 will front up against their counterparts. Given that Paul James is the man waiting in the wings, Jenkins loss (albeit still a big loss) is lessened slightly. A. Jones is an excellent player as we all know.

Hooker will be key, as will the second rows. Who is the likely second row pairing with AWJ and Charteris out?

Finally the blindside position is an interesting one. If Lydiate makes it then Wales are far far stronger than they would be with R. Jones there.

Hooker will be Bennett as per the RWC - Bradley Davies and the 6 ft 8 monster Ian Evans are the 2nd row pairing and whilst we lose the dynamism of AWJ and Charteris these 2 give us far more grunt - It should be one titanic battle in the front 5 and we know where that ship was built before it sank

Scrummaging wise our front row won't be weakened by james playing as he is the better scrummager it will be Jenkins' contribution around the park we will miss.

If Bennett can reproduce his WC form then no loss there either.

RubyGuby wrote:Hooker will be Bennett as per the RWC - Bradley Davies and the 6 ft 8 monster Ian Evans are the 2nd row pairing and whilst we lose the dynamism of AWJ and Charteris these 2 give us far more grunt - It should be one titanic battle in the front 5 and we know where that ship was built before it sank

Yep we do

In the UK (where Wales is) not Ireland (where the game is) - you're going down

RubyGuby wrote:Hooker will be Bennett as per the RWC - Bradley Davies and the 6 ft 8 monster Ian Evans are the 2nd row pairing and whilst we lose the dynamism of AWJ and Charteris these 2 give us far more grunt - It should be one titanic battle in the front 5 and we know where that ship was built before it sank

That would be Belfast... the UK... This is in Ireland

Ian Evans scares the bejaysus out of me if i can be honest... He will cause some big problems on Sunday.

C'mon, That titanic link derved a bit more than that! - I can just hear Earls shouting when Roberts bursts through the middle like an iceberg; "come back Jamie, come back"

You understand i could'nt let it pass Ruby That siad, it did make me laugh so

Belfast, Ulster, which I am positive in rugby terms considers itself more Irish than British. Or has Stephen Ferris been playing for the wrong side all this time?

Getting more confident by the day, if only Priestland and Roberts get back in time then I'd say we're in with a fair shout. Without them things will undoubtedly double in difficulty. But never say die

It was a joke Knowsit17...........

Don't get the Irish boys starting knowsit or we'll have the OGara, Sexton and Ferris thing all over again

I knew really, forgive my horrible reaction to banter as I am having to deal with freezing in a French tundra.

Fair dues Knowsit, i know how you feel, its stillm -9 here in the North of Holland

-20 due for Sunday over here, thankfully I'll be shut indoors with a blazing fire watching the game instead of working. Possibility of a whiskey or two in the evening, the mood and amount pending on the result...

Its going to hit -15 Friday and Sturday night. May be able to skate on Saturday and Sunday before the matches.

-20 is hellishly cold, good luck with that.

Cheers buddy, likewise on your end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4klyIX4RIWA

"Ian Evans scares the bejaysus out of me if i can be honest"

Eirebilly, I don't think he'll scare the bejasus out of POC and DOC, though. He blows a big hot and cold - at his best, he is very good, athletic, aggressive.

You're right BlueNote but he can cause a lot of issues if he has a good game. Defo one to be wary of

Knowsit17 wrote:Cheers buddy, likewise on your end.

Is that some kind of wishful threat or what in this weather!

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

newbie wrote:

I now realise why I dont come on this forum too much. Comprehension doesnt seem to be your best trait? I did not say he is slow I said I havent seen much evidence of his pace. He is not slow but speed is not his main attribute. You have given one example (not several) of some obscure play in the away game to Bath which was so good it cant be found on t'interweb and didnt end in a try. The one game where Leinster had an open game against Bath he played well and scored a try through great support play but that was it in terms of his excellence and it was Madigan who showed a real turn of speed and an eye for a gap to take his try. All I am saying is that he still has to prove himself as an international. He is a better option than O'Gara at this time, but it is not such a great thing given O'Garas age? ROG at the height of his powers in 06/07 scored tries regularly for Ireland (and was joint top try scorer I recall in the 07 6ns). I would like to see Sexton do the same but more importantly I would like to see him - for Ireland - show better game management, better consistency and to gain some confidence. He is not the finished article at the end of the 6ns we will have found out if he is ( a bit like earls in the centre). We have missed pace in the Centre and the ability to make breaks due to lack of pace. Now with Earls we dont have that excuse I hope Sexton will show the abilty to unlock the strong defence Wales will no doubt show no matter who they have playing. Not sure what is to controversial in that other than not agreeing completely with your view?

Nice,start insulting when you can't win an argument.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTbVoGm8k7U

Here you go 1.50 seconds in is an example of how quick he is,I'll fing more later tonight if that's not enough for you.I don't care what RoG did in 06/07 this isn't a comparison I'm simply challenging your statement that he doesn't have great gas.He has fantastic pace now I agree he hasn't shown his enough with Ireland but in all honesty there isn't a back in the squad that has been performing well over the last few years.

I'll repeat the point so that there's no confusion I'm not comparing him with RoG or disputing that he needs to improve at international level to prove himself as a really top class OH I'm simply saying you're wrong when you say he doesn't have great pace.

Ha ha...a very good example of what I think we already found out which is that Sexton provides good supporting lines and another run in well executed as with the Leinster v Bath game. Although I thought it was more a good example of the difference O'Gara would make given Sarries didnt have anyone to close out with a drop kick (although I am sure that wasnt your meaning).

Yes he has pace (he does not have fantastic pace) - you seem to be getting bogged down on one area which isnt even part of the arguement although its a good tactic to bang on about something specific which is ultimately irrelevent to the argument as he hasnt used his superhuman pace for Ireland as yet.

The comparison with O'Gara in 06/07 is that he has to move on and start showing what he is capable of, first of all he has to play well enough to get 80 mins and to own the shirt. This is something he has not done. I am yet to be convinced. I hope to be after the 6ns.

newbie wrote:
Yes he has pace (he does not have fantastic pace) - you seem to be getting bogged down on one area which isnt even part of the arguement although its a good tactic to bang on about something specific which is ultimately irrelevent to the argument as he hasnt used his superhuman pace for Ireland as yet.

The reason his supporting line is so good is because he has great pace,the players he leaves trailing once he gets his hands on the ball are a winger and a full back.

Lol this whole conversation started because you said he hasn't got great gas,I said he has and I'll provide more examples if you want.I never brought up anything else that's the only point I wanted to make,it's you who is trying to change the subject to an argument you can win.

Knowsit17 wrote:Cheers buddy, likewise on your end.

Cheers mate, i will gather the ewes and keep warm Culchie style

Newbie will you just admit you were wrong about Sexton's pace and stop making excuses/being so arrogant. Flip me.

newbie wrote:
Yes he has pace (he does not have fantastic pace) - you seem to be getting bogged down on one area which isnt even part of the arguement although its a good tactic to bang on about something specific which is ultimately irrelevent to the argument as he hasnt used his superhuman pace for Ireland as yet.

There is a slight contradiction there

Anyway, sorry newbie but he does have fantastic pace for a 10. He is one of the quickest players on the field at any given time. You dont just pop up in good supporting areas from winger or centres breaks you you do not have excellent pace. He is a gangly looking runner which is why it would appear to some that he is slow but trust me, that boy can move.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Newbie will you just admit you were wrong about Sexton's pace and stop making excuses/being so arrogant. Flip me.

I dont see him being arrogant. Its a discussion forum he is entitled to his opinion rightly or wrongly. Bit autocratic to demand he admits he is wrong

Whats this someone who isnt kowtowing to the alter of J Sexton. Appears to me people are splitting hairs. newbie does have a point though if Sexton has pace he certainly hasnt used it for ireland...

DOD wrote:Whats this someone who isnt kowtowing to the alter of J Sexton. Appears to me people are splitting hairs. newbie does have a point though if Sexton has pace he certainly hasnt used it for ireland...

Nobody is disputing that,we're disputing that he has pace nothing else,at least that's what I've been talking about newbie seems to think we're arguing about something different altogether so maybe this whole thing is more a case of crossed wires.

There are two very different things here.

1, Newbie says that Sexton doesnt posses good pace. I actually think that he is wrong there because he is very quick.

2, Newbie days that Sexton hasnt shown pace with Ireland. I tend to agree with him there as Sexton is yet to really cut a team apart at international level with blistering pace.

I also did'nt think that newbie was being arrogant. Its more to do with this kind of communication on a forum. Sometimes its just hard to bring across what your points in a way that others may understand. Happens to me all the time

eirebilly wrote:There are two very different things here.

1, Newbie says that Sexton doesnt posses good pace. I actually think that he is wrong there because he is very quick.

2, Newbie days that Sexton hasnt shown pace with Ireland. I tend to agree with him there as Sexton is yet to really cut a team apart at international level with blistering pace.

I also did'nt think that newbie was being arrogant. Its more to do with this kind of communication on a forum. Sometimes its just hard to bring across what your points in a way that others may understand. Happens to me all the time

Exactly,it's no.1 I'm disputing here no.2 is true the only times I can think of when he really used his pace for Ireland was against Fiji and the 6 nations game against England last year (and that was only a few flashes)

BlueMuff wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Newbie will you just admit you were wrong about Sexton's pace and stop making excuses/being so arrogant. Flip me.

I dont see him being arrogant. Its a discussion forum he is entitled to his opinion rightly or wrongly. Bit autocratic to demand he admits he is wrong

Yeah but if my opinion was that Usain Bolt was not a very fast runner, would you say my opinion was right or wrong? And if I continued to not accept that he was fast, you would conclude I am arrogant or a fool. In fact I have said before Darren Cave hasn't much pace and then people told me I was wrong, and after seeing him display his raw speed I admitted I was wrong.

Lets just drop it all and hope that Sexton shows his pace and cuts the Welsh defence open on Sunday.

Still really annoyed that it is on Sunday because i have to work Monday
Would have been a perfect Friday night match

eirebilly wrote:Lets just drop it all and hope that Sexton shows his pace and cuts the Welsh defence open on Sunday.

Still really annoyed that it is on Sunday because i have to work Monday
Would have been a perfect Friday night match

Yeah fair enough I'll leave it now.

Have to say I'm getting very excited now,my annual optimism has kicked in and I see our players free from the shackles of Alan Gaffney really tearing in and setting the tournament alight.

I guess for those who think it's an issue, the Irish conundrum as regards Sexton and pace is that it's a little pointless having pace and using it if you're team is a mile behind you, surprised by your pace, caught on the hop by your pace, no orders to follow you when you use pace, not in the pre-plan that they were going to use pace.

Pace has its place - and mostly that's in a side designed to use it.