England Team announced

3 new caps guaranteed - with more uncapped players on the bench.

Ben Foden; Chris Ashton; Brad Barritt, Owen Farrell, David Strettle; Charlie Hodgson; Ben Youngs; Alex Corbisiero, Dylan Hartley, Dan Cole; Mauritz Botha, Tom Palmer; Tom Croft, Chris Robshaw (captain), Phil Dowson.

Replacements: Rob Webber, Matt Stevens, Geoff Parling, Ben Morgan, Lee Dickson, Jordan Turner-Hall, Mike Brown.

Thank God Dowson is at 8 with Robshaw at 7 rather than the other way round like the BBC suggested (all because Robshaw had an ok game when Quins were missing 3 No 8s).

Wasnt expecting Dowson over Morgan but otherwise its pretty much what English fans had been saying.

Pretty much as expected...

Morgan will come off the bench which is sensible.

The midfield looks a little uncreative...but hopefuly Hodgson can pull the strings.

Will the pack be underpowered?? We will see...

Underwhelmed.

I fear for us at the breakdown. Pack looks underpowered to me. it could be a long afternoon.

Morgan will get 5 minutes off the bench and will then be dropped until he plays for an English club

Pete, were you expecting something different?

Wow that is a virtual new side, back 3 looks exciting always been a Strettle fan but he's injury prone.

Front row will be strong so no worries there for England.

Centres well big ask for two uncapped players to go into 1st match.

Hodgson at 10 well we all know how poor he has played there in the past.

It's a new dawn, it's a new day! Anyone feeling good

As expected but I feel a bit for Morgan as an out and out 8 - The front row looks a bit fragile - Good 2nd row - Light and dynamic back row - I really am unconvinced by 10. 12 and 13 but let's see hoe it goes.

What is interesting is that Farrell is named at 12 and Barritt 13 - a reversal of there sarries positions. This is the first indication that should Manu return mid tournament then Barritt will be the one to make way.

I am interested to see who woudl drop out from the back tow if/when wood returns.

Of course two defeats away from home and the whole thing could change.

have to say, I do worry about the paces and attaching talent you English have in the back 3 - glad we have picked a running 10 that will not kick it to you all day to run back at us.........

HammerofThunor wrote:Morgan will get 5 minutes off the bench and will then be dropped until he plays for an English club

Pete, were you expecting something different?

Not particularly, but it's hardly an inspring selection.

I feel a bit sorry for Lancaster, I think he is slightly caught between two stalls. He wants to build for the future and be bold and dynamic, but he knows that in terms of getting the job full time he will judged in no small part on results, so has had to hedge his bets a little.

There is no way on gods green earth that anyone is going to convince me that Botha and Dowson are better selections than Garvey and Morgan would have been.

I cannot see who in our pack will get us over the gainline and give us momentum. Very disappointed.

Seems a little harsh on Sharples not to make the bench.

Ben Foden must be covering wing

LondonTiger wrote:What is interesting is that Farrell is named at 12 and Barritt 13 - a reversal of there sarries positions. This is the first indication that should Manu return mid tournament then Barritt will be the one to make way.

I am interested to see who woudl drop out from the back tow if/when wood returns.

Of course two defeats away from home and the whole thing could change.

He will, I think, drop croft to the bench as an mpact but we will get to that hurdle when we reach it

Is Sharples destined to become the new JSD?

[quote="RubyGuby"]It's a new dawn, it's a new day! Anyone feeling good

The front row looks a bit fragile

Is that the view? I thought Corbisiero has played well and Cole is a top class T/Head, Hartley well he seems to have lost some form of late but wouldn't say its a fragile front row.

Depressing, but predictable.

All the bold talk of rewarding form melts away - on what planet is Botha playing better than Garvey?

Owen Farrell is not a 13, not by a long shot. I know he;s only just back from injury but Joseph is twice the 13 Farrell is.

Really not particularly hopeful about this team, although there were a lot of injuries. In particular I'm worried about the centre partnership. Is it any more creative than Johnson's? JTH coming off the bench is hardly going to provide any creative spark.

And why Botha?

I think we will be beaten. Possibly by a good margin. Hope I'm wrong!

Ozzy3213 wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Morgan will get 5 minutes off the bench and will then be dropped until he plays for an English club

Pete, were you expecting something different?

Not particularly, but it's hardly an inspring selection.

I feel a bit sorry for Lancaster, I think he is slightly caught between two stalls. He wants to build for the future and be bold and dynamic, but he knows that in terms of getting the job full time he will judged in no small part on results, so has had to hedge his bets a little.

There is no way on gods green earth that anyone is going to convince me that Botha and Dowson are better selections than Garvey and Morgan would have been.

I cannot see who in our pack will get us over the gainline and give us momentum. Very disappointed.

Amen to that. Botha?! It's going to be a long afternoon.

Split the backline where appropriate with any available forwards ready to run off the shoulder of Farrell or Barritt and have the half of the line that is not picked by Hodgson peel around and join the end of the other one. Basically we have picked two inside centres with different talents so we should utilise that. Let the Scots pick a side to defend and look for which one seems weaker and attack it. Of course on Farrell's side he is likely to kick it

LondonTiger wrote:What is interesting is that Farrell is named at 12 and Barritt 13 - a reversal of there sarries positions. This is the first indication that should Manu return mid tournament then Barritt will be the one to make way.

I am interested to see who woudl drop out from the back tow if/when wood returns.

Of course two defeats away from home and the whole thing could change.

Very very strange London Tiger. Barritt has always been the 12. Farrell has always been the 13. Though I am sure someone said they alternate in attack and defence anyway. Maybe the shirt numbers mean little anyway.


Would have personally started Morgan with Dowson as cover. Unfortunate for Sharples not even to make the bench. Would have preferred to Brown or Jordan Turner Hall.

I still cannot understand Jordan Turner Hall's purpose in the EPS.

[quote="bedfordwelsh"]

RubyGuby wrote:It's a new dawn, it's a new day! Anyone feeling good

The front row looks a bit fragile

Is that the view? I thought Corbisiero has played well and Cole is a top class T/Head, Hartley well he seems to have lost some form of late but wouldn't say its a fragile front row.

Corbisiero has been poor in the scrum of late, Hartley is more than capable of being flaky under pressure and can be a penalty machine, Cole is very much a Ronseal and nothing more than that - If they come under pressure from a useful scottish front 5 I would expect both Corbs and Hartley to suffer

[quote="bedfordwelsh"]

RubyGuby wrote:It's a new dawn, it's a new day! Anyone feeling good

The front row looks a bit fragile

Is that the view? I thought Corbisiero has played well and Cole is a top class T/Head, Hartley well he seems to have lost some form of late but wouldn't say its a fragile front row.

The front row is the only area of the pack that doesn't worry me at all.

Strange i thought most English fans have been calling for JTH to be in the squad for years?

What is interesting is that Farrell is named at 12 and Barritt 13 - a reversal of there sarries positions. This is the first indication that should Manu return mid tournament then Barritt will be the one to make way.

That is worrying, Farrell doesn't have the defensive impact in the 12 channel Barritt has and Barritt is in incredibly good form this season whilst Farrell is not. Then again Barritt's daddy isn't the new backs coach...

All the bold talk of rewarding form melts away - on what planet is Botha playing better than Garvey?

Good to see Parling on the bench though I'd rather he started. I'd also rather Garvey started as that performance for the Saxons last week was surely a good enough indicator that he is ready for a shot at the test arena. Botha on the other hand looked lost without something to run into for the Saxons during the Churchill Cup.

Strange i thought most English fans have been calling for JTH to be in the squad for years?

Not really, most of us prefer a 12 that can do more than run into contact at high speed.

[quote="RubyGuby"]

bedfordwelsh wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:It's a new dawn, it's a new day! Anyone feeling good

The front row looks a bit fragile

Is that the view? I thought Corbisiero has played well and Cole is a top class T/Head, Hartley well he seems to have lost some form of late but wouldn't say its a fragile front row.

Corbisiero has been poor in the scrum of late, Hartley is more than capable of being flaky under pressure and can be a penalty machine, Cole is very much a Ronseal and nothing more than that - If they come under pressure from a useful scottish front 5 I would expect both Corbs and Hartley to suffer

Corbisiero has been fine in the scrum. he has had a few debatable penalties go against him but hasn't been dominated by anyone. The other thing to remember with Corbs is that when playing for London Irish he has a not very good tighthead in his own team to contend with which makes his job harder. Front row will not be an issue for us, the rest of the pack will be.

beshocked wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:What is interesting is that Farrell is named at 12 and Barritt 13 - a reversal of there sarries positions. This is the first indication that should Manu return mid tournament then Barritt will be the one to make way.

I am interested to see who woudl drop out from the back tow if/when wood returns.

Of course two defeats away from home and the whole thing could change.

Very very strange London Tiger. Barritt has always been the 12. Farrell has always been the 13. Though I am sure someone said they alternate in attack and defence anyway. Maybe the shirt numbers mean little anyway.


Would have personally started Morgan with Dowson as cover. Unfortunate for Sharples not even to make the bench. Would have preferred to Brown or Jordan Turner Hall.



I still cannot understand Jordan Turner Hall's purpose in the EPS.

Even as a Quins fan I agree with you. I think you need your back up centres to be different players to those playing and JTH is an off form version of Barritt. I'd rather have seen Joseph or even Hopper as we also do not have a true 13 on the pitch. Such a shame about Trinder

gowales wrote:Strange i thought most English fans have been calling for JTH to be in the squad for years?

A few years ago he was Stuart Barnes "blue-eyed boy". Of course before that his favourite was Erinle (when first starring for Wasps).

JTH is big and strong, but I have yet seen anything to suggest he offers much more than this. Some neat offloads, yes, but sparkling passing no. He still looks to run into players rather than space and has no kicking game whatsoever. However we are not endowed with talent at centre.

Got the feeling that Hartleys gonna be up and down like a jack in the box................

Hey you've just described Jamie Roberts

bedfordwelsh wrote:Is that the view? I thought Corbisiero has played well and Cole is a top class T/Head, Hartley well he seems to have lost some form of late but wouldn't say its a fragile front row.

Yeh, Corbisiero got nailed in the scrum in the Edinburgh vs Irish game a couple of weeks back and isn't a particularly fearsome ball carrier.

8 uncapped players in the squad must be the most in the Six Nations for a while. Can anyone think of the last time a team had that?

The selection of Morgan and Turner-Hall on the bench may tell you something about the way they think the game could be heading in the second half.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

What is interesting is that Farrell is named at 12 and Barritt 13 - a reversal of there sarries positions. This is the first indication that should Manu return mid tournament then Barritt will be the one to make way.

That is worrying, Farrell doesn't have the defensive impact in the 12 channel Barritt has and Barritt is in incredibly good form this season whilst Farrell is not. Then again Barritt's daddy isn't the new backs coach...

All the bold talk of rewarding form melts away - on what planet is Botha playing better than Garvey?

Good to see Parling on the bench though I'd rather he started. I'd also rather Garvey started as that performance for the Saxons last week was surely a good enough indicator that he is ready for a shot at the test arena. Botha on the other hand looked lost without something to run into for the Saxons during the Churchill Cup.

Strange i thought most English fans have been calling for JTH to be in the squad for years?

Not really, most of us prefer a 12 that can do more than run into contact at high speed.

Hopefully when Flood and Tuilagi (and Trinder even though he was cover) are back the centres will be reselected on form not on the coaching team's preexisting ideas. They'll pick whoever looks best. Of course, if Barritt looks good at 13 then he is well placed to cover both centres, but I'd prefer Farrell on the bench to cover 10-13 and a specialist 10 and 12 and 13 starting

gowales wrote:Hey you've just described Jamie Roberts

Swap?

umm... nah. But im sure Ireland or Scotland wouldn't mind taking him off your hands.

LondonTiger wrote:

gowales wrote:Hey you've just described Jamie Roberts

Swap?

and that innocuous little comment was my 1,000th post

beshocked wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:What is interesting is that Farrell is named at 12 and Barritt 13 - a reversal of there sarries positions. This is the first indication that should Manu return mid tournament then Barritt will be the one to make way.

I am interested to see who woudl drop out from the back tow if/when wood returns.

Of course two defeats away from home and the whole thing could change.

Very very strange London Tiger. Barritt has always been the 12. Farrell has always been the 13. Though I am sure someone said they alternate in attack and defence anyway. Maybe the shirt numbers mean little anyway.


Would have personally started Morgan with Dowson as cover. Unfortunate for Sharples not even to make the bench. Would have preferred to Brown or Jordan Turner Hall.

I still cannot understand Jordan Turner Hall's purpose in the EPS.

Ditto Botha, Lancaster must be screwing his mother or something, its the only explanation for his presence in the EPS.

that man, in the words of the immortal Roy Castle.............dedication.......

Thanks Chequered Jersey. By the way I am not saying JTH is a bad player. He's pretty good actually. Just doesn't offer anything extra which Farrell and Barritt can.

I would prefer a proper outside centre too but at least the 10,11,12,13 will all know each other. Farrell can take the kicking duties which takes the pressure off Hodgson. With Trinder and Tuilagi out it was expected.

Sam it's likely Barritt will defend as a 12. Farrell and Barritt alternate for Saracens.

I have always said I would prefer Garvey but what we can do?

LondonTiger wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

gowales wrote:Hey you've just described Jamie Roberts

Swap?

and that innocuous little comment was my 1,000th post

oops, should've added this

Equo Troiano wrote:

beshocked wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:What is interesting is that Farrell is named at 12 and Barritt 13 - a reversal of there sarries positions. This is the first indication that should Manu return mid tournament then Barritt will be the one to make way.

I am interested to see who woudl drop out from the back tow if/when wood returns.

Of course two defeats away from home and the whole thing could change.

Very very strange London Tiger. Barritt has always been the 12. Farrell has always been the 13. Though I am sure someone said they alternate in attack and defence anyway. Maybe the shirt numbers mean little anyway.


Would have personally started Morgan with Dowson as cover. Unfortunate for Sharples not even to make the bench. Would have preferred to Brown or Jordan Turner Hall.

I still cannot understand Jordan Turner Hall's purpose in the EPS.

Ditto Botha, Lancaster must be screwing his mother or something, its the only explanation for his presence in the EPS.

Martin Johnson picked Botha too.......

To be honest im suprised at this selection.

Obvious concerns will be in the front 5. They are giving away a lot of weight and height to Jacobsen, Ford, Murray, Gray & Hamilton. If Scotland are smart they will put a big focus on testing Englands set piece (Lineout and Scrum). I would expect England to be ok at Scrum but lineout could be a different story. Botha will really have his work cut out for him at this level.

Back Row looks big from England. Thats fine if they can retain possession and most those guys are offering ball carrying ability and Croft will add to the lineout. That said Scotland have a genuine Openside (Rennie) with another top draw one on the bench in Barclay. Can England keep blasting them off the ball for 80 mins? I'm not convinced. If the WC showed anything is that the role of a good 7 can be key to a teams attack. England have failed to choose one.

The Backs look solid from England but I dont really see any flair coming from the backline. That said solid is whats needed against the Scots at Murrayfield.

They may even get some change out of Scotland as the Robinson selection there is very baffeling. Parks may put them into good positions but defensivly really inept and if England are smart they will launch Barritt down his channel all day long.

Lamont not being a natural inside Centre may struggle defensivly too. That said he's Scotlands best back in my opinion on form so I dont see him as a weakness. But the 10/12 channel is clearly a weakness in this Scotland side. They do have Laidlaw on the bench though and their back 3 look pacey and strong.

The real issue for England is that the bench is so inexperienced. Thats fine if you bring them on in when its going well but you cant expose them if its going badly for England. Scotland by contrast have a failry strong bench.

My money is on Scotland to win this game and if England are not careful they could lose this by a margin as well. Opening 20 mins will be key for England.

Good job everyone's happy with the reason's should we loose...its the sarries players fault.

Sove of you are so fickle, one min its these players need to be in the EPS, then they get selected and there crap and should not be in the side???

The only players in that side that havent had the internet wetting itself over at some point in the last couple of years are Croft ( pretty much a no brainer with Wood out and a Lion ), Hartley ( no other serious option at hooker and has been touted as a captain by some ) , Webber ( ditto), Hodgson ( his second choice behind Flood. Clegg and Burns possibles but the otehr other possibility is playing 12 already) and Botha...Botha is the only real WTF selection, yet hes exactly the kind of forward that people having been baging on about England needing for over a decade now.

For the most part these are the guys that Johnson got slagged for leaving out. A lot of negativity toward Dowson, its only a year or so ago that he HAD to start for England, now suddenly we want a fat Welsh kid or Nick Easter?

Its a no win for the england coach isnt it.


The potential problems for England are obvious. However they will be wearing their shirts properly after instrunction frpom Gary Neville, at leats they can dress themselves. Lets focus on the positives chaps.

Fat welsh kid my arse.......

I see. So Farrell and Barritt switch places, just when you'd want Barritt lining up against SLamont. I'm assuming they'll switch around for defensive duties?

Botha in there is.... well I think this quote sums up the selection for me

"Mauritz was probably a little unlucky not to make the World Cup squad and his form for Saracens this season has been exceptional really," said Lancaster

Quite apart from the fact he was dropped for a variety of matches pre Christmas. Kruis starting in place of him I believe. Either way it had to be Garvey on form, or Attwood for development. Glad to see Parling in there though, he certainly deserves it.

My other concern is no wing cover! I know Foden could cover it, but why have a one dimensional centre and out and out FB on your bench?! Sharples can cover wing and FB. I know Brown has a major left boot, and perhaps it indicates Plan A will be dropped after 5 minutes, and Plan B will be a bit of bosh and kicking?!

Knackeredknees that does worry me a bit. I can see the Sarries players being blamed if we lose.

It's not ideal to pick both Barritt and Farrell in the centres for England but SL has little choice with Trinder,M.Tuilagi and even Joseph injured.

If I were Scotland I would target Farrell and Hodgson.

This is not a team that would fill me with alot of confidence if i were and England fan..

Defensively England are often very good and Barritt in particular is very well thought of in this area. You can see why Dowson is in - may be first cap but hes been around a long time and wont get phased.

Centers and 10 there is an air of last man standing - also the club unit thing. Hodgson can be a very very good attacking player and with Farrell to do the kicking he wont have that monkey on his back.

Cant see lineout being too much of a weakness either - Hartley is good at throwing these days and with Croft there we should be OK.

Sad for Sharples though.

Still have no idea how this game is going to pan out. If the scots think they might win they will probably put in a shocking performance

Sam it's likely Barritt will defend as a 12. Farrell and Barritt alternate for Saracens.

From what I've seen noticeably less as the season has gone on. They've made use of Farrell's hands and given him time on the ball via a miss pass from Hodgson and utilised Farrell as a wide playmaker. Barritt has stayed mostly in the 12 channel cleaning up bad ball and spinning the ball wide from 12. That is what concerns me with the numbering, Farrell at 12 and Barritt at 13 was trialled earlier in the season by Sarries and it didn't work. Is Farrell being shoe horned into the 12 shirt too early and Barritt being used as a cover for Manu? If so I think Barritt will rightfully feel hard done by.

I would expect England to be ok at Scrum but lineout could be a different story

Presumeably that's why Parling is on the bench, an athletic lineout specialist with a good work load could be very handy in this game. Croft is a reliable front jumper if the lineout is under pressure anyway, they could just hit him at the front all day and except the slower ball.

Equo Troiano wrote:
beshocked wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
What is interesting is that Farrell is named at 12 and Barritt 13 - a reversal of there sarries positions. This is the first indication that should Manu return mid tournament then Barritt will be the one to make way.

I am interested to see who woudl drop out from the back tow if/when wood returns.

Of course two defeats away from home and the whole thing could change.

Very very strange London Tiger. Barritt has always been the 12. Farrell has always been the 13. Though I am sure someone said they alternate in attack and defence anyway. Maybe the shirt numbers mean little anyway.


Would have personally started Morgan with Dowson as cover. Unfortunate for Sharples not even to make the bench. Would have preferred to Brown or Jordan Turner Hall.

I still cannot understand Jordan Turner Hall's purpose in the EPS.

Ditto Botha, Lancaster must be screwing his mother or something, its the only explanation for his presence in the EPS.

Martin Johnson picked Botha too........

What are you insinuating about Botha's mother?

And if you're going to play Croft, let's at least have one of the front row and two of the back row who can carry.

Hartley does so, but with varying degrees of efficiency due to him continually taking contact side on. Corbisiero pretty well adds nothing to the team as far as I can discern. Cole's own acknowledged weakness is carrying. Dowson, whilst I do like his awareness, aint a heavy carrier of the ball.

We're then left with: Hartley (sometimes), Botha, Robshaw as the primary carriers. Palmer does so but without much conviction. As such there's a fairly clear argument for at least having Morgan in there to do a bit of hard work.