James Downey Confirmed

http://munsterrugby.ie/news/10060.php

Northampton Saints centre James Downey is announced today as joining Munster.

Will it be a case of him finally proving his worth in Ireland. Or is he going to be a flop.

09 Murray
10 O'Gara
11 Zebo
12 Downey
13 Earls
14 Howlett
15 Jones

Really hope this gives him a shout at the Irish 12 shirt, think D'Arcy in unbelievably lucky to still have it and Paddy Wallace is god awful. Appreciate that their are other youngsters coming through with Cave and McFadden, but I reckon Downey might prove difficult for the Irish coach to ignore

Or maybe this:

09 Murray
10 O'Gara
11 Zebo
12 Downey
13 Earls
14 Bowe
15 Jones

Seriously though it's a good move for Downey and he will fit in well with the brand of rugby normally played by Munster.

Bathite wrote:Really hope this gives him a shout at the Irish 12 shirt, think D'Arcy in unbelievably lucky to still have it and Paddy Wallace is god awful. Appreciate that their are other youngsters coming through with Cave and McFadden, but I reckon Downey might prove difficult for the Irish coach to ignore

Jeebus I thought there might be a few posts before we had the Downey for Ireland campaign.

Rava - wouldn't say know to Tommy Bowe.

That would be incredible. All Irish backline and all Irish reserves - O'Leary (scrumhalf), Keatley (flyhalf), Barnes (centre), J.Murphy (winger), D.Hurely (fullback)

I havce watch a fair bit of AP rugby this year - Downey has been a poor shadow of the player from the year before.

Limited player. I think munster can get the best out of him but I worry for earls playing outside him if he is to be the next Irish 13. Downey IMO will never be international standard and his distribution is none existent.

Thats my feeling as well Geoff. In reality I think as good as it is to buy Irish - we are being sold a dud.

He's a big tackler and makes big carries ball in hand. Not got great hands or any real kicking game though. If you want a solid 12 to provide a platform for more inventive play outwide then he may be your man. If you want a creative 12 that will make moments of magic happen in the midfield then he is the wrong signing.

don't you mean:

9 TOL
10 ROG
11 Zebo
12 Mafi
13 Laulala
14 Howlett
15 Jones

?

I'm not saying Downey should play for Ireland, but its great that he nows get the chance to. But as someone else said, his form 18 months ago would have given him a much better shot.

geoff998rugby wrote:I havce watch a fair bit of AP rugby this year - Downey has been a poor shadow of the player from the year before.

+ 1 He played ok against Munster at Thomond but for me he isn't a patch on Ian Whitten as a big powerful 12. Whitten is as big, faster, younger and has better hands.

I can't understand why Downey's name keeps coming up with regards Irish selection. He's missed the boat by a couple of seasons and is way off the standard.

Downey is much better than Mafi IMO. Mafi is defensively poor and hasn't done much in attack for years. Munster also need an attack coach though. Jason Holland has been a disaster.

Does this give credence to the Laulala rumour given at he plays his rugby outside a massive 12 for Cardiff?

Feic sake conveys my mood right now. I really don't want another average centre. We have a very exciting back 3 who won't see ball with Downy. I can see why he was signed but I don't want him.

Disappointing signing. He is not better than Mafi..

Yeah poor signing. We'll probably see more of this under the new IRFU rules. Poor and mediocre players being signed because they're Irish qualified.

I wouldn't say it's a poor signing,Munster are a bit short of depth at centre so I think he'll be a solid squad member for Munster.

Feckless Rogue wrote:Yeah poor signing. We'll probably see more of this under the new IRFU rules. Poor and mediocre players being signed because they're Irish qualified.

Not great for the youngsters coming through. Barnes, Hanrahan etc. There are others like Gleeson and Dineen also...plenty of possibilities there of which Downey isnt that much better (i.e not worth it at this stage).

DOD - how long will it be before Hanrahan would be drafted into the main squad? I hope it is sooner rather than later.

I actually like this signing. True he's off form and I'm not sure he'll even make the HC team. However, for most of this season we have putting out centre pairings who have have offered very little in the weight and power stakes. I appreciate he's not going to be an all singing all dancing score creating machine but at times thats not is what is needed.
If he can regain some form then he will be solid in defence and provide some good go forward ball for the likes Mafi, Barnes, Earls, Zebo or whoever to make use of. The lack of power in the centre has been obvious this season - especially in the Rabo - hopefully he can provide some.

Feic sake conveys my mood right now. I really don't want another average centre. We have a very exciting back 3 who won't see ball with Downy

Northampton have an exciting back three who see quite a lot of the ball. As long as you have a fly half and an OC who have good distribution the you'll be fine, Downey isn't a complete ball hog he will pass if he has enough time to do so.

It depends on if he is 1st choice for me. Downey is a bosh merchant at 12 by at he top level in europe is he really good enough to consistently break the gainline? If he can do at h will suit munster as with good front foot ball earls, Zebo and jones could be dangerous.

I think personally he won't make all that much ground against the top sides but it could be his current form is a blip.

Downey has got way more gametime than Tom May this season and he has started most of Northampton's big games.

Don't think he fell down the pecking order - just he was overworked in the last couple of seasons.

Delighted he is coming - Munster have been a centre down this season (Tipoki, Jean de Villiers or Sammy were never replaced).

Rumour on munsterfans now about Mafi going to Perpignam. Much and all as we might give out about him for the YCs and high tackles, I will miss him if he goes. He grew up with Munster.

formerly known as Sam wrote:He's a big tackler and makes big carries ball in hand. Not got great hands or any real kicking game though. If you want a solid 12 to provide a platform for more inventive play outwide then he may be your man. If you want a creative 12 that will make moments of magic happen in the midfield then he is the wrong signing.

Wot he said! Spot on description, he'll do a great job in certain situations but O'Gara will need to start practicing his miss passes!

Sin é wrote:Delighted he is coming - Munster have been a centre down this season (Tipoki, Jean de Villiers or Sammy were never replaced).

Tipoki was replaced with De Villiers who was replaced with Tuitipoopoo who was replaced with Chambers who is replaced with Downey no?

Hard to tell if this is a good signing at this stage, another Leinster castoff ending up at Munster though, fair play to them, they're making the most from the crumbs from our table...

Sound Mick - BTW say bye bye to 2 of your starting front row, both of your scrum halves and Jonathan Sexton.

Richardt Strauss?

Isaac Boss?

Johnny Sexton?

C’mon Stag…

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:Delighted he is coming - Munster have been a centre down this season (Tipoki, Jean de Villiers or Sammy were never replaced).

Tipoki was replaced with De Villiers who was replaced with Tuitipoopoo who was replaced with Chambers who is replaced with Downey no?

Hard to tell if this is a good signing at this stage, another Leinster castoff ending up at Munster though, fair play to them, they're making the most from the crumbs from our table...

Chambers was an outside centre*. We've had Johne Murphy starting at inside centre in Heineken Cup games.

Leinster did much better from the crumbs of Munster's table - Ross, Cronin, Reddan, Hogan, Fogs (finishing both the careers of the last two).


*We lost Barry Murphy last season and Earls was away at the world cup.

Cronin, Ross, Reddan are Munster
Boss is Ulster
Strauss is South African
Sexton comes from a long line of proud Munster men. He's only a Dub by default. Its what makes him a successful player.

red_stag wrote:Cronin, Ross, Reddan are Munster
Boss is Ulster Waikato
Strauss is South African
Sexton comes from a long line of proud Munster men. He's only a Dub by default. Its what makes him a successful player.

Fixed that for you

Sexton has a Kerry background...you can see it in the weird shape of his head.

You wouldn't tell it from the way he kicks a ball (particularly the way he kicked for Ireland in Croker, worst performance by a Kerryman since I don't know when)

If he can regain his form then I think Munster have signed a decent player who I'm sorry to see leaving the Saints. As others state as long as he is in the correct combo then he is a more than useful and when on form has the abilty to off load in the tackle which could be great for Earls (and maybe Bowe ). Saints always look a poorer team when he is not playing whether he is on form or not. Think he will be a good foil for when Keatley plays, maybe not so much O'Gara if he is in kicking for the corners mode.

He's not going to fizz flat passes down the line on a regular basis but will nearly always make yards and recycle the ball quickly. Defensively solid as well and is the kind of player than enables others to shine.

Sorry for the boring post but I'm not a Munster or Leinster man (or Irish for that matter) so can't get involved in the friendly banter

Thomond wrote:You wouldn't tell it from the way he kicks a ball (particularly the way he kicked for Ireland in Croker, worst performance by a Kerryman since I don't know when)

ah but yerra he's brilliant....

Interesting that Paddy Wallace comfortably outplayed him in the HEC QF and has far more International honours yet is "awful" compared to him!

Downey has been hyped up because he is effective in the AP but he doesn't have the game for the P12. Munster have gone for him because a) he's Irish qualified and b) he reminds them of Halstead. He's no Trev though and I fear he won't be seeing much gametime season after next.

The Great Aukster wrote:Interesting that Paddy Wallace comfortably outplayed him in the HEC QF and has far more International honours yet is "awful" compared to him!

Downey has been hyped up because he is effective in the AP but he doesn't have the game for the P12. Munster have gone for him because a) he's Irish qualified and b) he reminds them of Halstead. He's no Trev though and I fear he won't be seeing much gametime season after next.

I thought Northampton made the final of the Heineken Cup last year, not Ulster

I don't see how that makes Downey a better player than Northampton, Sin. By your logic does that mean you are admitting Sexton is a better player than ROG?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I don't see how that makes Downey a better player than Northampton, Sin. By your logic does that mean you are admitting Sexton is a better player than ROG?

No, it means that Downey is probably not much worse than Paddy Wallace. Someone like Rog or Sexton can win (rather than lose) you games. Someone like Wallace or Downey are not as important.

B91212 wrote:If he can regain his form then I think Munster have signed a decent player who I'm sorry to see leaving the Saints. As others state as long as he is in the correct combo then he is a more than useful and when on form has the abilty to off load in the tackle which could be great for Earls (and maybe Bowe ). Saints always look a poorer team when he is not playing whether he is on form or not. Think he will be a good foil for when Keatley plays, maybe not so much O'Gara if he is in kicking for the corners mode.

He's not going to fizz flat passes down the line on a regular basis but will nearly always make yards and recycle the ball quickly. Defensively solid as well and is the kind of player than enables others to shine.

Sorry for the boring post but I'm not a Munster or Leinster man (or Irish for that matter) so can't get involved in the friendly banter

Oh I don't know, I thought you did pretty well with your Bowe comment - that dig alone guarantees you provincial qualification

Sin é wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Interesting that Paddy Wallace comfortably outplayed him in the HEC QF and has far more International honours yet is "awful" compared to him!

Downey has been hyped up because he is effective in the AP but he doesn't have the game for the P12. Munster have gone for him because a) he's Irish qualified and b) he reminds them of Halstead. He's no Trev though and I fear he won't be seeing much gametime season after next.

I thought Northampton made the final of the Heineken Cup last year, not Ulster

They did but that was down to their front five and Foden - from 6 to 14 Uslter were the better team.
That was what made it so frustrating.

In the centre the difference in class was quite marked.

geoff999rugby wrote:
In the centre the difference in class was quite marked.

I concur. Wallace was superior in every aspect of the game in attack and defence and by some distance. In fact with Downey's 1st carry Wallace picked him up and drove him backwards if I remember correctly.

Ulsters backs were a lot better than Saints and even though the front 5 got hammered Ulster created more in attack.

That said I actually think Downey is a very good signing for Munster but he's definitely not international standard these days.

Personally I think he will be like Johne Murphy - looks better in the Premiership, will do fine in the Magners League and a decent enough player at times in the HEC but not an amazing signing by any means.

Someone above summed it up earlier - he has only been bought as:

a) He is Irish
b) He reminds Munster of Trevor Halstead
c) We need a 12 and beggars can't be choosers

I remember when names like Nonu were being touted as Munster replacements. Instead we got James Downey who has been a good club man but not international class.

To improve our backline we needed a really top centre.

Interesting that Paddy Wallace comfortably outplayed him in the HEC QF and has far more International honours yet is "awful" compared to him!

Saints played to a game plan. Keep it tight and rampage forwards using the big boys. They controlled their own breakdown and Dickson the scrum half steered them always up the pitch. Downey wasn't great but the game plan was for him to only recycle the ball so the forwards could continue mullering their opposite numbers in the tight exchange. It wasn't particularly pretty but it worked.

As I said above Downey won't set the world alight but he'll do a solid job.

red_stag wrote:Cronin, Ross, Reddan are Munster
Boss is Ulster
Strauss is South African
Sexton comes from a long line of proud Munster men. He's only a Dub by default. Its what makes him a successful player.

Ah hear. If your claiming Sexto, why not Reggie Corrigan the famous Lunster hater? His Da was from Tipp.

Cheers Jenifer. Thanks for pointing it out. Also its a long time since you've actually had a Leinster man as coach. They aren't "thinking people" you need foreigners to give your team ideas.

Blow ins the lot of ya!!

red_stag wrote:Cheers Jenifer. Thanks for pointing it out. Also its a long time since you've actually had a Leinster man as coach. They aren't "thinking people" you need foreigners to give your team ideas.

Blow ins the lot of ya!!

We're just Cosmopolitan and Sophisticated rather than Inbred.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

red_stag wrote:Cheers Jenifer. Thanks for pointing it out. Also its a long time since you've actually had a Leinster man as coach. They aren't "thinking people" you need foreigners to give your team ideas.

Blow ins the lot of ya!!

We're just Cosmopolitan and Sophisticated rather than Inbred.