Tell us about your game today...

First topic message reminder :

.. or yesterday or whenever your last game happened.

I played this morning - just a bounce game with one of my regular partners.

There had been a big competition yesterday at the club so the course was a bit quieter today than one might expect for a Sunday. 11:20 tee off as a two-ball and lots of other two balls out there with a couple of quick 4-balls so pace of play was brisk.

Those who have read my posts recently will know that I've been suffering with a nasty foot/ankle injury for a few months and it's just great to be out there at all at the moment. Thankfully the foot came through with flying colours though I think I've been favouring it for the last couple of weeks still and after the game today my knee was playing up but with luck that will just be a temporary setback.

A glorious day though in the Thames Valley with above average temperatures and the course was in remarkable nick for mid March.

The match itself was close for a long way. I felt I was playing reasonably well after not playing much of the winter and after losing the 2nd I levelled it on the 3rd and was one up after nine. Though I felt I was playing better than my opponent I couldn't shake him and he hung in there until I went 2 up on 15. Closed it out on 16 but was made to work for it.

Although it was matchplay I kept an estimated Stableford score and came in with 32 (estimated) points which I wasn't too disappointed with given lack of recent regular play. One NR and a couple of holes where a 3 pointer was well withing my grasp and ended with 1 point (short game was actually pretty good apart from those two nightmares)

Now looking forward to next weekend and a Stableford competition where I've been drawn with last year's captain and next year's!

As described, for someone who can hit a long iron 200+

So about 1% of the people who play it. Why is there no alternate route for the people who cannot hit it long? No issue with carries those who can take on such a risk and reward shot. It is when you get into the realm of forced carries like the ones you describe on this hole that designs fall short.

I just don’t get the point of the hole, easy for the better player and impossible for the weaker player. To force a higher handicap player to carry water twice in one hole is very bad design. Adding a 90 degree dog leg just defies belief. Oh god and the tree's. No wonder some people loose interest or never take up the game.


Mav

Nothing to do with Doak, just my thoughts based on the better courses I have played.

Sorry Davie sounds like i'm getting you confused with another poster.. It's been a long week.

From the way the hole is described I like the sound of it. But as you say it highlights how useless SI is as a judge of degree of difficulty for a hole for all players

Mac - I can only asssume my descriptive powers are good enough as I'm sure you read each word carefully and therefore any misunderstanding must be my fault

It's 200+ yards off the tee to give a clear shot to the green around the dogleg. The first carry is maybe only 150-160 yards (and there is even a bail out area of semi rough for those who can only hit a ball 100 yards)

From approx 150 yards to the 200+ (probably about 220 to give a totally unobstructed shot to the green) there is fairway. So it shouldn't be an impossible hole for anyone - just one that requires thought and knowledge of your own strengths and weaknesses.

As a 22 handicapper I've birdied the hole a few times when I was taking a driver off the tee so it's far from impossible. The counterpoint is that with a driver in my hands I've also taken 8s and 9s.

The second water hazard BTW is only a small pond in front of the green. Of course it will catch some chunked pitches but again there is nothing "impossible" about it

Any link to an overhead view or picture?

I've just looked for one Mac and can't find a suitable one. I've going to take a snapshot from Google Earth but I'll have to enhance it myself as it looks as if the trees have grown since the satellite image was taken and some of the "features" don't show very clearly.

I'll try to post something soon

Forced carries of the type you describe, over 100 yards Davie?, should be banned from the regular tees.
If they're not in play for the low/mid handicappers, what's the point?! Just to slow down play for us duffers presumably.
We have a couple (one of about 140 yds, one close to 200) on otherwise good holes, but it makes you wonder what (or whether) the designer was thinking.

OK - please excuse my poor attempts at trying to clear the picture up - from Google Earth I had to emphasise where the water is as some didn't show properly and because of shadows I've tried to remove some trees that were made to look much bigger than they really are

Image hidden in spoiler tag - click below to show it

Spoiler:

Now I've tried to show the white, yellow and red teeing areas over on the left...

Area "a" is a bail-out area. Not closely mown but not horrible rough either
Point "b" is the first carry of approx 50-160 yards from the whites
Point "c" is the first area where you get a clear shot at the green - maybe 210-220 yards from the whites
Point "d" would be the perfect shot - needs a bit of draw to get it there from the whites - probably about 240 yards.

The trees on the dogleg are much taller than they look in the graphic

I have seen (in Scrambles for example when one of the team is in good position) a BIG hitter go for the green in one. Not a shot anyone would take on normally but as a high risk shot it is just about possible (though I've never seen anyone pull it off yet, I've heard it has been done)

From an area somewhere between points "b" and "c" it usually takes a chip down to the dogleg and somewhere near point "d" though there is a small area where a lower gap in the dogleg trees means it may be possible to take the green on. Usually needs a lot of height though which for lesser players may mean you'll come up short

If there is one bit of bad design, it is that the edge of the pond "south" of point "c" isn't properly visible from the tee; hit a slice off the tee and it's sometimes not possible to see for sure if you've found the pond so even if you agree that it is within reasonable certainty that the ball is in the hazard, it's not always possible to know exactly where to drop

One other aspect - point "e" towards the bottom of the picture is actually the fairway of the preceding hole. I've heard of really short hitters sing a driver to deliberately knock it towards point "e" - then a fairway wood to somewhere near point "c" then a chip and a putt!

Anyway - hope this explains it a bit better - sorry about the poor graphics!

Horrible teebox alignment!

Looks to me as if it would be a much better hole as a driveable par 4 with all tee boxes where the Reds are, or in front. Would still be risk/reward.
As it is, anything other than perfect tee-shot alignment will force left-to-right ball flight aim at the trees, right-to-lefters flirt with the drink!

I'd take whatever you need to clear the pond and re-set par from there, four if you hit a corker, five or more if you're in trouble. With your/our handicap, bogey would be a decent score, par a relative birdie.

Tee box alignment does seem way off from what I can see, admittedly its up to us to align ourselves but looking at this hole seems as though things have been changed over the years to create a dogleg and toughen it up but natiral aim forces you the wrong way

That's exactly what I do Kwini. I'm happy with that. As I said above, I'm not complaining about the hole - I think it's a good test. The whole question was re-raised as yesterday I topped my 3 wood off the tee into the very first bit of water. You'll see a narrow strip of grass between the pond and the cart path which is the only place possible to drop other than hitting 3 off the tee (and that is semi rough rather than closely mown).

My original statement was that I went with 3 wood off the tee again which led to a fairly safe 7 and I wondered if I should have either played 3 off the tee this time with driver, or attempted to play from the dropping area - both options would have given me a better chance of 6, but also brought bigger numbers into play

Never thought the tee box alignment to be strange. That's maybe just something created by google maps. It's pretty clear from the tee boxes what your alignment should be

worst thing there is the narrow landing area for shorter hitters. looks like those who can comfortably knock it past 200 yards have a far bigger landing zone. it forces your hand to an extent, i'd say you should use whichever club gets you to the largest landing zone - even if that means driver. almost looks easier from the whites in that respect, trees up the left close it in a bit more from yellow and reds. out of interest, what is the hole yardage on the card from the whites and if going for the green, how much carry would be required to land it on when chopping off the corner?

Total yardage on the scorecard is 302 off the whites (290 off the yellows though the yellow tees usually tend to be a little further forward)

Couldn't tell you I'm afraid what the total carry to the green is but the biggest problem that puts people going for it (except in fun or team events) is that the trees immediately to the left of the green and on direct line from the tee are VERY tall - anything comfortably clearing those would probably clear the green altogether

Looks like a great hole imo!

Davie - given the circumstances, it sounds as though you made the right call. I know what you mean though, sometimes playing it safe leads to a disappointing score and you think "well I may as well have just gone for it!"

To quote Dr. Bob, "conservative strategy, cocky swing".

Thing is, Davie, you're unlikely to make anything better than a 7 if you take a drop, perhaps a 6 if your lie (you describe it a just "semi-rough" after all) affords you the opportunity to get in position for a wedge into the green.

As Andy North always says, and my son reminds me when we play, "Take your medicine"!

But I agree with ban_bam, design favours the better player, unnecessarily penalises the higher handicapper.

Davie

I think from that photo it is clear the designer failed to consider the effects of the water crossing at point b. They must have assumed all players would easily clear that water or not even thought about it. It always amazes me that architects do not realise that even a 100 yard forced carry is too much for a large proportion of players. Point “a” is in no way a bail out zone. Proper bail out zone provides an alternate route that is still fairway, but probably not an ideal angle for the next shot. “a” is just a bit of the course not really in play.

As for “e” that is just plain dangerous and again the designer has to take some blame for not providing a reasonable route for those unable to make the carry.


To then block the route to the green with trees for those only just able to make the forced carry from the tee is just insane. This added to the water all the way up the right makes no sense to me.

Silly thing is that the pond doesn't/shouldn't come in to play on the previous hole. Unless it's a mandated "retention pond", it's only purpose is to p-off the high handicapper.
(Have no problem with the little brook crossing the fairway, that's perfectly fair with no pond.)

Fair comments mac - not sure I agree with you but I understand what you are saying. There are many par 4s that I can't reach in 2 so the fact that I can't take on the green even after making the forced carry is largely irrelevant to me

I only added point "e" as a bit of a joke as I only know one person who plays it that way

@Kwini - the pond can come into play on the previous hole. The picture doesn't show it but the 1st hole is a long par4 which also is almost 90 degrees left at about half distance. The portion you can see runs down the right hand side of the second part of the hole and so is a lateral hazard to the hole - in play if you push or slice your shot to the green or if you overhit any 2nd shot that was short of the dogleg off the tee and you try to cut the corner

To me, the first hole is just as hard for lower handicappers/shorter hitters as again it is difficult to reach the corner from the tee, but there is more room to "cross the corner" with the second shot. Still leaves a much longer 3rd to the green though. A much harder 3 shotter for the higher handicapper

are there any hairpin bends at your club davie, 2 severe doglegs to start sounds unusual!
i remember playing a new course up in dundee, balumbie castle i think its called. from memory there was 14 dog-legged holes - i might be wrong, my memory may well be exaggerating the facts!

It's certainly an "interesting" start ban_bam! The 3rd hole (par 5) has a gentle dogleg right but nothing as severe as the first two holes - after that the only other slight dogleg is the par5 16th - but again that is only a gently dogleg

I usually start to relax after my tee shot on the 3rd

Good work with the computer.Difficult to tell from above without the lie/wind but white tee looks a better line,favour the left of the fairway and try to find the widest part of the fairway.I guess if you have to chip out into the clear leave a distance you are comfy with.I guess the ladies tee is the circular bit next to the path.May be one where you just need to hit some practice shots one day and feel confident.2nd Hole is a bit different to it being say 14th when you may be feeling a bit more composed.

Am I the only one that thinks the architect has made an error when a player has no other option after finding the fairway of a par 4 than to chip it on a bit further?

McLaren wrote:Am I the only one that thinks the architect has made an error when a player has no other option after finding the fairway of a par 4 than to chip it on a bit further?

That would mean for me that every par 4 over about 400 yards was fatally flawed

Davie

If there are no tree's on the inside of a dog leg to clear or a pond to carry at the green why not take at least a long iron to get as close as possible?


There is also an argument, I mean discussion, to be had on this topic about playing from the correct tee's. The example we have discussed today is of course complicated by having to play the medal tee. Which is why I would argue the architect should have thought about playability for all regardless of the tee.

Mac,
Surely that's just a question of placing the tee markers appropriately?
My biggest beef is when the dogleg is situated such that the second shot is longer than the tee-shot; #'s 3 and14 at our course exactly like that, drives me crazy!
As you'll gather, we have four really poor holes, 13 good ones, and one par four that's a perfectly good par five!

In defense of course designers there is often a budget to work to and the issue of getting from start to finish working around what is already there.First glance at this I would suggest maybe the first green should have been to the right of where it is using the water to an extentand the second hole staightened up with the tee to the south of where it is.
Fascinating subject though.

Good point about the previous green, dyna, maybe Davie could get you a commission for re-siting the green and tee-boxes! Rees Jones needs some competition!!

Thanks it is a subject I have some limited knowlege /interest in.Our course has 3 new holes designed by an 'architect'.Two are the worst on the course and the third has been altered to improve it.last nights course I played has recently been extended to 18 holes from what was a good 9 holer built in the 60/s by a man with a lawnmower if you get my drift.Really interesting to see how they have altered things around with the addition of 20 odd acres and a section of disused railway line to squeeze in the 18.All the old greens and features are there but lots of extension and movement of tees to achieve length which has left hazards in the 'wrong'places. Too much emphasis these days on importing thousands of tons of spoil(for cash)

Looking at the pic I wonder why they don't cut some of the trees to the right of that little bunch down a bit to enable those who can't make the carry to the dogleg to still have a go at the green with a mid iron. Still makes it risk/reward as those who want to/can hit the drive further only have a wedge.
They could leave the trees further left up high thereby making driving the green tricky.

I had to post this - just got back from my annual 3-day Ryder Cup weekend - for the first time ever I managed to win all 5 games. This was despite having a dodgy knee (I go in for a another operation in 3 weeks time) and being cut 2 shots for the remaining 3 matches.

The highlight was the pairing with another single figure player as my partner. We started, bogey bogey (managed to half both holes) and finished off 4 under, I had 3 birdies and an eagle & my partner had 3 birdies....... only managed to win 4&3 tho' so the opposition also played well.

So: why oh why can't I do that in a qualifying comp? - what a frustrating game.

Big stableford comp yesterday and played OK apart from a total meldown over 3 holes in the middle of the front nine. Just missed my buffer zone courtesy of the CSS going low

Today was a friendly bounce game (also stableford) and after a shocking first nine (mostly down to the same 2 or 3 hole sequence middle of front nine) I played back nine pretty well - couple of net pars and a net eagle helped my pull an 8 point deficit from front nine back to just one with 3 holes to play. 16 and 17 were pretty equal but I made a bit of a horlicks of the last which I normally play quite well. Missed a big comeback by a couple of shots in the end but for a while it was looking like a bigger comeback than Lazarus

BTW on the 2nd hole that generated a few comments earlier in the week, I hit a driver today (much against the way I've been playing it recently) and got it just about far enough (and avoiding trees and water) to take a pop at the green. Higher risk shot but as it was a "friendly" I took a chance and pulled it off - only to three put from not that far away

Still if I'd played "safe" and still 3 putted it would have been a 6 instead of a 5

verging on being called a WUM here but I think there is a valid arguement for saying that if someone isn`t capable of reaching point B then they are a beginner that isn't ready to be on the course yet.

if you think that one is bad have a look at this one i played last week.

http://www.3deagleview.com/flashexp/concrawood_map_hole15.html

(take a look at 13th and 16th which are also quite bad)


unbelievable course and great value for money- its currently owned by the Irish government though after going into financial trouble.
My work society (quite poor standard) are thinking of playing it but realistically most members couldn't play it and enjoy it.

wowzers hend, looks like you'd need to bend the ball like bubba to master that course, talk about wiggly!

Bam Bam it really is a gem of a course but as i say its not for the high handicaps.its one that could be taken into a NI tour as somone was asking for on another thread.
alot of the holes are severly uphill or downhill too which you cant tell from the fly over.
the 10th for example is like a ski slope from about 290 yds off the tee. i drove it into the back bunker and the hole measures about 440 yards!
dont worry... i was well and truely humbled walking off with a 5

hend, i reckon a 150 yard carry might cause a few of my 'experienced' high teens / early 20s hcapper playing partners a bit of worry - even if you or i could pop it over comfortably with a 7 or 8iron.
i'm pretty sure most people would be capable of making the shot, only the shorter the hitter you are, the more it will play on your mind and be likely to result in a duff, which would almost certainly result in disaster.
i think your point would be valid if it was about a 70 to 80 yard carry - then it'd only bother the wee lad's and lassies.

it certainly looks well maintained from the photos. whats the surrounding area like - nice views etc? sort of course that might frustrate a righty slicy or a lefty hooky with water generally on the right.

the views are really nice in some spots looking onto Loch Muckno. the course was in exceptional condition the two times ive played it (last week and summer 2010.) I Would worry about whether or not the condition will slide now that it is part of NAMA though. Green fees for their open singles was 30 euro.
I think there's actually plenty of trouble for a RH hooker too- we had one in our 4ball who had no problem loosing a few balls!

Second leg of the B team final last evening.We were down 2 1/2 to 3 1/2.
Our match went fine.Bit lucky to be level after 3 but won 5 and then 6 when the opponent 3 putted from about 8 feet trying to get back with a birdie.I won 9 with par 5.Lost 11 but made tap in birdie on 12(index 1)to go back to 3 up.Closed it out on 15th with tidy par.Crucially we didnt play a bad hole at the same time and were 3 over par for the 15 holes.
There was some great golf in the other matches,one of the opposing pairs made 6 birdies(and won) one of our pairs won 9 and 7,and it all came down to the final match,final green where the opposition made birdie to half the match and leave the score at 3 1/2 - 2 1/2 to us.So the whole thing was halved ..but league rules stated that if that happened then the total result between the 6th match should be used as the decider and we therefore lost on the countback.Overall scores we would have taken it but rules is rules.Good end to the season and evening golf.

Played in my first ever club friendly last night, don't usually play in them as the amount of shots I have to give away, however had my arm twisted and have to say I thoroughly enjoyed the craic..

Played against one of the local Muni's, Deangate ridge. Nice little course, with some tough holes and real birdie opportunities.. Even managed to walk the full 18 with the electirc trolley, (knee aches a bit now but worth it to know its healing).

Played against an 18 handicapper and a 9 handicap, both lovely guys who were more interested in enjoying the round with new people rather than overly worried about winning which made it all the more competitive in a way, with some good banter. My own partner someone I had not previously played with a 10 handicap B team player at our place.

I had been struggling with the driving since my return, think I had been protecting my left side a little rather than letting myself get through the shot, but let it go yesterday to good effect. Played the par 5's exceptionally thanks to the driving being back to normal, played the 3 of them in a total of -4, 11 shots. Even hitting the first of them with a Driver and a 9 iron...

Match went down to 18th we were 1 down thanks to 18 handicap el bandito holing out for a 3 net 2 on the long par 3 17th.. Which we halved so in all we lost the match 1 down. But had a thoroughly good round with good guys. Afterwards worked out if all putts were holed out instead of the little gimmes would have scored in the region of 65 over the par 71. So very happy with how the game went and even though we lost I would play again in the friendlies I have so long shied away from.

Even got a nice 3 course meal afterwards and including the 18holes of golf it cost me absolutely nothing as our club footed the bill

3 putted the last yesterday to lose a (friendly) game by one shot

I don't want to talk about it anymore

Davie you sure you don't want to lay on the couch tin cup style and let it all out...

Mav

was that your first 'competitive' round? Bet it feels good to get it under your belt

drive4show wrote:Mav

was that your first 'competitive' round? Bet it feels good to get it under your belt

Wouldn't say a friendly was competitive in all sense's of the word. But yes i guess you could say it was in fairness, was actually the best I've played since my return which hasn't been much, but with the driver working I may actually risk playing in the club stableford this weekend despite saying i wouldn't compete again this year.

Well took the risk to play the cllub stableford today, which is a drawn comp as usual.

Course has been reduced to a Par 71 due to some vandalism to one of the par 5 tee's and requires a complete rebuild. Had countu in and they have SSS reduced from 71 to 70

Very blustery and quite cold conditions to start with at 0830 especially all first 4 holes were out into the wind! Nice steady start with 2 pars then an awful double bogey 6! Weather picked up and turned out very warm. Then after another bogey at the 4th just managed to Settle into a nice tempo and didn't even really notice how the score was going until signed for it at the end.

Walked away with a nice 41 pointsand a gross 66 be leader in the clubhouse and had my best ever score over my home course with 8 birdies, the double and single bogies meant just 7pars...

Hopefully with that score I may actually achieve this years goal and with only having played 5 qualifying rounds!

Taking a week off now as can feel I the knee a little tight so relax no golf next week maybe just a brief range session and plenty of time to follow Mavette as she has a junior comp next week

Well done Mav great round.

2nd consective week off due to weather. Quite clearly coming to the end of the season. Thank god this time next week I will be in Murcia for a weeks golfing!

Pros day on sat .Singles stableford shotgun start which is always good for the get together after.partnered with a young lad off 13 super player and temperament who outplayed me.Good drives but poor second shots and 32 points with 4 blobs.pro made a hole in one on the par 3 he was challenging us to get closer-TBF he had 20 odd gos at it.Other partner recieved a message on the 18th tee par 3 that his wife and mum had been in a car accident on the M1(apologies to anyone held up at J24 northbound)So he teed off on his own buggy down to the green putted out and buggy back to his car.Eventful day

first weekend comp at the home club for 11 weeks yesterday - due mainly to 3 cancellations, and various away opens etc. disappointing round, only managing to pop 2 out of 12 reasonable birdie chances away. especially disappointed with the 4 misses from inside 6 feet. our greens were tined 10 days ago and they are suffering from severe stodgyness at the moment - meaning a lot of footprints and bumps around the cup. anyhoo, any hope of a score was properly destroyed by poor tee shots on the 6th and 11th which led to a triple and a double.
couple of medals coming up on wed and sat, so hoping to find some form and put in a reasonable score in one of those.

Troon Darley in a stiff breeze, not played for two weeks, form not good lately.
Seven at the first [2 over] and then an amazing transformation played really well to be out in 41. Steady old stuff on the way home then a daft seven [2 over] to finish.
34 points quite happy. Course was tough. Good drive, 3 wood and eight iron into the par 4 thirteenth hole.
Hit seven 6 iron shots today and each one was a beauty, funny how that happens.
Deadly had a rush of blood on a couple of holes going out but recovered on the inward half. Inward half sounds so much better than the Americanised back side.
Course was quiet and played well, greens a bit soft after overnight rain.

Doon

Hang your head in shame, the 1st and 18th on the Darley are two of the easiest par 5's in Scotland

Good shooting for the other 16 holes though, I love the Darley, cracking course.

DFS

They bloomin well were not today.

Mirror image 7's. pulled drive lucky to find, hack out, half hit 3 wood, pulled 9 iron into greenside bunker, hack out, two putts. Simples.