Healey's At It Again!

First topic message reminder :

Taken from walesonline.co.uk

Outspoken former England star Austin Healey gives Wales no hope in Six Nations

AUSTIN HEALEY might not be everybody’s cup of tea, but he never disappoints when it comes to speaking his mind.

The cheeky English chappie just can’t resist firing verbal bullets in most directions but it’s his candour and biting tongue which seem to wind up people the most.

Some Welsh supporters reading this will be angered by his remarks concerning Wales.

“They played well in one game, against Ireland, at the World Cup, no two but they lost that one, against South Africa, because they didn’t have the self-belief to win it,” declared Healey.

Informed Wales had won just three of their last 54 Tests against the southern hemisphere big three of New Zealand, South Africa and Australia, he quipped: “That’s good for Wales!”

Healy couldn’t resist a dig at his old sparring partner Graham Henry, the former Wales coach who was the architect of New Zealand lifting the World Cup last October.

It was Healey and his England pal Matt Dawson who condemned Henry’s leadership of the Lions tour of Australia 11 years ago.

They were important members of his squad, but their hugely controversial newspaper columns provoked outrage and they were accused by some of betrayal.

Henry this week warned England’s interim coach, Stuart Lancaster a zero tolerance approach to poor discipline in the Red Rose squad would end in failure.

But Healey retorted: “I have worked with him before and, as usual, Henry is talking a load of rubbish.

“I remember Wales had disciplinary problems before the World Cup, but they stamped it out and haven’t had any since.”

Healey has never been one to mince his words when it comes to talking about Wales.

In the past, he’s criticised fitness levels, attitude, commitment and dubbed the surface of the pitch at the Millennium Stadium as akin to playing on a beach.

However, scrape away the headline-grabbing barbs and the quips and much of what the ‘Leicester Lip’ says is just downright commonsense.

It shouldn’t be forgotten he was a proven winner, with the Lions in South Africa in 1997, in England Grand Slam successes and with Leicester in the Heineken Cup and English Premiership.

So his views on Welsh hopes in the looming 2012 Six Nations are worthy of debate.

“I think Wales will struggle in this championship because how the fixtures fall is bad for them,” was Healey’s assessment.

That will raise eyebrows because many believe Wales will prosper on the back of the World Cup and because they have Scotland, Italy and France at the Millennium Stadium.

But Healey argued: “Going to Dublin to face the Irish in their first game is really tough. I can’t see Wales winning that one.

“The Irish are flying; they’ve got three teams through to the quarter-finals of the Heineken Cup and have a strong squad.

“I’m expecting Ireland to beat Wales by at least 14 points. Put me on the spot and I’d say 27-9 because the Irish players have been doing so well in Europe.

“Jonny Sexton has been sensational for Leinster and will control the midfield if Jamie Roberts isn’t playing for Wales.

“Jonathan Davies is playing really well for the Scarlets, but Wales without Roberts, Rhys Priestland and Shane Williams?

“Without Priestland you’re not as good and Wales will miss Shane much more than Ireland will Brian O’Driscoll.

“It’s going to be interesting to see how Wales play without Shane. Subconsciously, I think it will have a big impact because often they weren’t doing anything and Shane would come up with a half-break or moment of brilliance to win matches.

“It will be pretty tough for Wales. I’m predicting they will finish in fourth in the Six Nations table with only two wins, against Scotland and Italy.

“France will win it with England second and Ireland third.

“If Ireland were playing France and England in Dublin, I’d be tipping them. It’s just the way the fixtures fall.

“I just think the French will be too strong. Philippe Saint-Andre, their new coach, will bring them together and they will play with more flair.

“If they get injuries, they have got so much strength in depth to call upon without weakening their side.”

Despite questioning who Wales beat at the World Cup and pointing out they’ve lost their last three matches – Australia (twice) and France – Healey didn’t totally dismiss their performances Down Under.

“I don’t think they were fortunate. They beat some of the opposition which was put in front of them,” he said.

“The good thing was it was the fittest Wales team I have seen and they should be able to carry that into this Six Nations.

“But, like I said, too many things are against them.”

SecretFly wrote:Equating HC performances with International is a might more complex than simply saying 'one doesn't have a bearing on the other'.

Yes, suggesting that Ireland should be always able to compete with and even beat France because of our Provincial HC record is wrong - simply because when we rely on compressing all our best players into at most three sides... France can call on the International services of players from six or seven, or even eight or nine sides. As a HC province we might be able to compete on a level playing field with any individual French club but when they call on their resources it will always be an uphill battle to sustain a good record against them

Now - Wales is different. They have roughly the same limitations as we have when it comes to regional rugby - all their best players operating in mostly three sides. In that context, giving Ireland's HC record and the present year's performances as an advantage is not altogether illogical.

Could Wales still win? - Without a shadow of a doubt.

+1
Good point about talent being spread more thinly across French clubs than across the Irish provinces, that would be it I suppose.

Comfort wrote:when was the last time this welsh side took a "hammering" against NH opposition? just wondering.

and we know that in wales, regional form and form of the national side are irrelevant. the coaching at regional level is frankly a farce.

Irelands problem is usually motivation, they have the players to mix it at the top but they're not consistently ruthless as they can be.

its like the opposite way around to the way wales works.

the players will play their heart out for their provinces, Kidney seems to struggle to get that same fire in their bellys come international time, when he does though (England/Australia last year) they really are hard to live with. I fear that they may have the motivation they seem to need to get a stiffy for this first game.

Still, i dont see this welsh side taking a hammering against anyone in the NH.

Wales lost 5 62 -57 1 0 0 0 v England Twickenham 4 Aug 2007
Wales lost 13 47 -34 1 1 2 0 v England Twickenham 4 Feb 2006
Wales lost 7 34 -27 1 1 0 0 v France Millennium Stadium 26 Aug 2007
Wales lost 5 31 -26 1 0 0 0 v Ireland Lansdowne Road 26 Feb 2006
Wales lost 9 28 -19 0 0 3 0 v France Stade de France 19 Mar 2011
Wales lost 12 27 -15 0 0 4 0 v Ireland Croke Park 13 Mar 2010
Wales lost 17 30 -13 2 2 1 0 v England Twickenham 6 Feb 2010
Wales lost 9 19 -10 0 0 3 0 v Ireland Millennium Stadium 4 Feb 2007
Wales lost 21 32 -11 3 3 0 0 v France Stade de France 24 Feb 2007
Wales lost 9 21 -12 0 0 3 0 v Scotland Murrayfield 10 Feb 2007


Thats their "double figure" losses in recent times.
So most were in the 06/07 disater years.
What I would point to though is the two defeats ( in the order of magnitude Healy is talking) last time the fixtures were this wayt round...away to Ireland by 15 and away to England by 13.

They havent taken a real stinking in some time, but they have taken some significant losses.

Knowsit17 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Equating HC performances with International is a might more complex than simply saying 'one doesn't have a bearing on the other'.

Yes, suggesting that Ireland should be always able to compete with and even beat France because of our Provincial HC record is wrong - simply because when we rely on compressing all our best players into at most three sides... France can call on the International services of players from six or seven, or even eight or nine sides. As a HC province we might be able to compete on a level playing field with any individual French club but when they call on their resources it will always be an uphill battle to sustain a good record against them

Now - Wales is different. They have roughly the same limitations as we have when it comes to regional rugby - all their best players operating in mostly three sides. In that context, giving Ireland's HC record and the present year's performances as an advantage is not altogether illogical.

Could Wales still win? - Without a shadow of a doubt.

+1
Good point about talent being spread more thinly across French clubs than across the Irish provinces, that would be it I suppose.

The French clubs are also notorious for not taking the HC that seriously, especially if they lose a game early.

SecretFly wrote:I do hate those mid-game passovers to the guy with the 'serious work getting done here' microphone...who warbles a few little bites of detail and then back to what you tuned in to see - the game itself.

Especially as what he has to say is either blindingly obvious or is having no impact on the way the game's going.

Cheers PSW!

Hello everyone javascript:emoticonp('') - very long time 'voyeur' but first post. The assertion that HC success has no bearing upon 6 Nations performance is simply not true, in the case of Ireland. Whilst we have only won 1 Grand Slam, we have been the 2nd most consistent team in the history of the 6 Nations behind France, coming 2nd on points difference on a number of occasions. That level of consistent performance was and is founded on Provincial success. That it hasn't secured a greater number of championships is anomalous but probably accounted for in a lack of squad depth in critical positions with an attendant over-reliance upon key players such as BOD. Kidney is addressing squad depth and along with the Provinces' academies and squad structures this holds some promise for the future. As for Sunday, I believe Ireland will prevail, I even believe we have a good chance of the Championship and a Grand Slam, all hinging upon the game in Paris!

Welcome to 606v2!

Thanks.

2 reasons why I read headlines and decided not to read further:

1 Its Healey

2 Its in the Western Fail

Looks like walesonline trying to provoke a bit of hatred towards healey. Love this bit;

"Healey has never been one to mince his words when it comes to talking about Wales."

When in actual fact Healey has never been one to mince his words about anyone, not just wales.

[quote="nathan"]Looks like walesonline trying to provoke a bit of hatred towards healey.

Didn't need to go to this length though just mention his name and most people hate him

i dont even think Healey would eat mince meat.

I think this HC success was overplayed by a number of Irish posters before our last meeting and we all know what happened then.

Taffineastbourne wrote:I think this HC success was overplayed by a number of Irish posters before our last meeting and we all know what happened then.

No?.... What happened then, Taff? Spare none of the detail

I seem to remember the crowing back then was that we beat a side called Australia on the way to meeting Wales. But yes, we overplayed that one too. The Irish...we do oversell our strengths sometimes...unlike the ever cautious Welsh...........

on our day...

Ive seen him mince in panto

Healey dont mince pete, healey dont mince.

whether thats his words, his style of walking or his meat.

HEALEY DONT MINCE!

Hold the back page - former international rugby player opens mouth - celtic nations outraged...

lostinwales wrote:Hold the back page - former international rugby player opens mouth - celtic nations outraged...

They arent so fussed, he didnt win a world cup

The French clubs are also notorious for not taking the HC that seriously, especially if they lose a game early

Depends how well they are doing in the French League as it's a case of get relegated go bankrupt and in the case of the top clubs head coaches, don't make the playoffs then don't have a job. The HEC is the icing on the cake to the French clubs but they are expecting the cake first.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

The French clubs are also notorious for not taking the HC that seriously, especially if they lose a game early

Depends how well they are doing in the French League as it's a case of get relegated go bankrupt and in the case of the top clubs head coaches, don't make the playoffs then don't have a job. The HEC is the icing on the cake to the French clubs but they are expecting the cake first.

Unfortunately Clermont and Toulouse, the two French sides left in the HC do take the HC seriously!

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Hold the back page - former international rugby player opens mouth - celtic nations outraged...

They arent so fussed, he didnt win a world cup

Neither have they....

He was a proven winner?

His teams may have won but I´m not quite sure his contributions really added that much to those successes.

I don´t have a problem with ex-players like Campese who always like stating their opinions and don´t mind holding back what they really mean. But even though I don´t pay too much to what Campo says or his gruff coach Bob Dwyer, I at least respect their right to an opinion based on what they achieved in rugby.

Healey on the other hand, all he achieved to me in his playing days was a reputation for having a big gob. Never had the class, in any sense, of a player like Josh Lewsey. When he speaks out on rugby, I associate it with the Spice Girls commenting on music.

Yet youll happily read the crap thats posted on here? Go figure

Well if I add my tripe on here, I need to have an open mind mate.

killer938 wrote:

Londonwelsh wrote:Some of what Healey says is hard to argue against. This though is nonsense

"The Irish are flying; they’ve got three teams through to the quarter-finals of the Heineken Cup and have a strong squad".

“I’m expecting Ireland to beat Wales by at least 14 points. Put me on the spot and I’d say 27-9 because the Irish players have been doing so well in Europe.

The Irish provinces success in Europe will make no difference to Ireland's Six Nations campaign. It's a lazy assumption to make.

No, what you just said is nonsense. Of course it makes a difference. If you have players who are playing well and are used to winning then of course it makes a difference when it comes to playing internationally, especially when you are coming up against a lot of the players who have just recently beaten.

Healey believes Ireland will have success based on having 3 teams in the QFs of the HC. Yet he predicts France and England to finish 1st and 2nd when they have 2 and 1 teams respectively and Ireland 3rd therefore contradicting himself.

As I said Ireland's provinces success in Europe will not have any baring in the Six Nations. If club success translated into International success
Ireland would have won a lot more Grand Slams over the past 8 seasons and Wales would have won nowt. Surely I don’t need to go into the differences between Club/Internationals teams i.e. Different coaching setup, different tactics employed etc.. Or do I?

Problem for Ireland talking up having three provinces in the HC quarters is that Isa Nacewa,Richardt Strauss,Heinke van der Merwe,John Afoa,Johann Muller,Robbie Diack,Pedrie Wannenburg ,Ruan Pienaar,Jared Payne,Stefan Terblanche,BJ Botha,Wian du Preez and Lifeimi Mafi are not Irish!

Without them world class players they just look average solid and dependable.

So what you are saying then View is that only 11 (Diack and Payne haven't played any games but you knew that of course) out of at least 66 players who played for Ulster, Munster and Leinster were non Irish?

Thats a fantastic statistic and shows how strong Irish rugby is right now. Good man View .

SecretFly wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:I think this HC success was overplayed by a number of Irish posters before our last meeting and we all know what happened then.

No?.... What happened then, Taff? Spare none of the detail

I seem to remember the crowing back then was that we beat a side called Australia on the way to meeting Wales. But yes, we overplayed that one too. The Irish...we do oversell our strengths sometimes...unlike the ever cautious Welsh...........

Your memory is playing tricks.If you have the time and inclination go and have a look at the threads.
We are riddled with injuries and missing a third of our first choice and we are away so I will be happy if we finish 2nd with no further injuries.Ireland by 8 points.