Why haven't the Klits transcended??????

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 03 Feb 2012, 8:00 pm

First topic message reminder :

White....Quite handsome....dominant at their weight class....at times exciting to watch...Without doubt classy guys.....great manners..Intelligent....well-spoken......owners of the greatest prize/prizes in sports for it seems like an eternity!!!!

Why haven't guys like these transcended....After all they seem to suit the transcending criteria!!!

I know they didn't conquer America (Did they try hard enough)... but they are still not big names in Britain although the average guy on the street knows Manny and floyd to a certain extent!!

Is it more to do with Boxing's deterioration??? or is the Klits themselves???

Why haven't the Klits transcended????????

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 07 Feb 2012, 12:42 pm

So every American fighter has conquered America????? What's the point...

Why don't you get lost anyway...

Everything is race with you..

by Rowley Tue 07 Feb 2012, 12:42 pm

One other thing it may be worth asking is do the brothers care about their global appeal? They are genuinely mega stars in Germany advertise everything from gyms to cars and food etc and have deals with massive blue chip companies over there, would have to guess they earn the money that tends to come with this. Knowing America tends to be pretty blase about foreign fighters unless they are really willing to go on a huge charm offensive and put some serious years and graft in is entirely possible the brothers have asked themselves why bother?

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 07 Feb 2012, 12:43 pm

Judging by their knowledge of history......Worship of Ali and the like..

One might say yes they do care about a legacy..

Legacies are mainly discussed in America...

by **88Chris05** Tue 07 Feb 2012, 12:44 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Think maybe the fact they haven't tried to conquer America might have something to do with it...

I find this a bit of a strange view, personally. Both brothers, particularly Vitali earlier on in his career, have gone to America, taken on the best the US of A had to offer at the time and handed out a thrashing to their opponent in their opponent's back yard. Despite this (or maybe because of it), American networks soon withdrew any interest from showcasing the brothers. Not sure how they could have done any more in their quest to 'conquer America', personally. Hardly their fault if, having done everything expected of them, the American networks aren't fussed by them. And besides, as you have reminded us just recently, Truss, it's a business first and foremost. If America isn't interested, can't fault them for lining their pockets via German megashows.

by No1Jonesy Tue 07 Feb 2012, 12:45 pm

azania wrote:If they were american, they wouldn't need to conquer america. Lewis's big shows were against Americans who were already massive.

Jonesey, their race is one of the many factors. I have never said they would be huge because they are white. I said they would be huge because they are intelligent, good looking dominant and white. The OP states that as a factor.

A draw is just a score that needs settling Cool

I get that Azania but they could be dumb, ugly, purple but due to dominance of the division they would be huge. Nothing helps a country like National Pride can... being the best at something for so long, you just cant ignore that

Let's take Lennox Lewis for example... Now everyone on here knows how much i rate this guy as a boxer and his obvious dominance but his personality really grates on me and many other people I know. But it proves my above point - Lewis was annoying, horrible accent that changed intermittently from Canadian/American/Jamaican/African and English, silly outbursts after fights, one helluva ugly mother bouncing around the ring afyter his victories and i wouldnt have him in the easy on the eye category either. His dominance made him what he was

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 07 Feb 2012, 12:47 pm

You think Brewster, Lewis and sanders may have dulled their appeal?????

After all punching out 19 stone Williams is more likely to turn people away...

by azania Tue 07 Feb 2012, 12:48 pm

[quote="TRUSSMAN66"]So every American fighter has conquered America????? What's the point...

Why don't you get lost anyway...

Everything is race with you..[/quote]

From your OP

First topic message reminder :

White....Quite handsome....dominant at their weight class....at times exciting to watch...Without doubt classy guys.....great manners..Intelligent....well-spoken......owners of the greatest prize/prizes in sports for it seems like an eternity!!!!

If their race was not a factor, why bring it up?

I await your apology. Cool

Once again for the less than intelligent, I agree with the OP which I have reproduced here. But I would add that if they were American they would have more global appeal.

And again for the less than intelligent amongst us, not every american boxer has conquered america. But I will say that a part of me reckong that a dominant HW champ who is American would be well known in America and hyped up to be well known across the globe. Just a guess mind.

by **HumanWindmill** Tue 07 Feb 2012, 12:52 pm

See you in three days, Az.

That'll be Friday. Enjoy your break.

by No1Jonesy Tue 07 Feb 2012, 12:57 pm

HumanWindmill wrote:See you in three days, Az.

That'll be Friday. Enjoy your break.

I'll ave a stick of rock if you would be so kind....

by **HumanWindmill** Tue 07 Feb 2012, 1:00 pm

And an ice cream, Jonesy?

by No1Jonesy Tue 07 Feb 2012, 1:48 pm

If it doesnt melt

Some Clotted Cream Fudge wouldn't go amiss though....

by **HumanWindmill** Tue 07 Feb 2012, 2:02 pm

I'll see what I can do for you, mate.

by Steffan Tue 07 Feb 2012, 6:03 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:If there is a douple-dip...you know we may not be able to bail you out this time!!

Can you please explain that comment to me Truss as I dont quite fully understand what topic or meaning you are referring to? Thanks

by Super D Boon Tue 07 Feb 2012, 6:10 pm

To be honest I think they have trancended. We tend to believe that just because they're not big over here or in America then they're striclty pro boxers just dedicated to their sport and are nothing more.

Take the view of Germans and Eastern Europeans and they are megastars that appear on all kinds of stuff from adverts, to Eurovision and any other lame celebrity poo spoken in funny languages.

No they're huge. Just not over here or accross the pond.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 07 Feb 2012, 6:47 pm

Eastern European market is not my idea of transcending....

I'm sure there are all kinds of Madonna types I haven't heard of....

Just a private joke Steffan..

by Imperial Ghosty Tue 07 Feb 2012, 7:27 pm

88Chris05 wrote:
Imperial Ghosty wrote:you watch to see them knockout there opponent or provide a boxing clinic, they don't do any of these things.

Ghosty, they've done nothing but these two things over the last few years as far as I'm concerned. There have been stoppages galore and barely a round lost between them - what more do people want? They may not set the pulse racing in the way that Tyson did, but I'd say that amongst most serious boxing fans, their skills are highly appreciated. I suspect I'm in the minority, but I'd say the reason neither brother is a global megastar owes more to factors outside the ring than in it.

Of course they'd be more well known had they been American - really not sure how that can be denied. Take a list of the ten most talked about, googled, followed, YouTubed or whatever celebrities in the world today, and I'd bet a pound to a pile that they're American or, at least, British; a linked country with English as the first language. Say what you want about our Colonial cousins, but they're by far the best in the world at hyping and promoting their own.

I'd say that while what happens in the ring does play a part, their lack of mainstream recognition owes more to a combination of factors away from it; their nationality, the dwindling interest in boxing as a whole across the globe in recent years etc.

There are knockouts Chris and then there are Klitschko knockouts, fans want to see a fighter like Tyson charge at his opponent and try to take them out in the first round not sheppard over matched opponents through to the late rounds. They win almost every round but it's a very monotonous style they possess, say what you want about Mayweather and Pacquiao but when they outclass an opponent they do it with style, speed and all round brilliance.

I as a boxing fan have no interest in them and there nationality doesn't play a part in that, how many on here do you think look forward to a Klitschko fight?

by Imperial Ghosty Tue 07 Feb 2012, 7:29 pm

HumanWindmill wrote:See you in three days, Az.

That'll be Friday. Enjoy your break.

Best news i've heard in weeks.

by Steffan Tue 07 Feb 2012, 9:32 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:
HumanWindmill wrote:See you in three days, Az.

That'll be Friday. Enjoy your break.

Best news i've heard in weeks.

All we need now is you to get banned from here permanently and my day will be complete

by Imperial Ghosty Tue 07 Feb 2012, 9:33 pm

Thanks Steffan, made my day that has.

by Steffan Tue 07 Feb 2012, 9:38 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Thanks Steffan, made my day that has.

Your welcome

Youve been banned before mind so I guess anythings possible

If its any consolation id keep you ahead of Truss Smile

by Rowley Tue 07 Feb 2012, 9:39 pm

Would make my day if you would all discuss the topic in hand rather than who has or has not been banned but I fear I may be setting the bar too high with that one.

by Steffan Tue 07 Feb 2012, 9:44 pm

rowley wrote:Would make my day if you would all discuss the topic in hand rather than who has or has not been banned but I fear I may be setting the bar too high with that one.

You got no chance on that one Smile

Nah back on topic...

Is the fact that neither Klitschko has really been in any high profiled wars with an opponent other than Vitali with Lewis?

They havnt really had any great opposition to make them look great if you know what I mean

by tcribb Tue 07 Feb 2012, 9:51 pm

I know Truss says they're exciting in his original opening, however I think thats where lies the problem they're not really IMO? More methodical than devastating, you've got to remember most young boxing fans these days want to see fighters going for the kill 100%.

I watched Donaire vs Vasquez on saturday which was enjoyable however the crowd kept booing each time there was a lull in the action, seems a common trend these days.

Also doesnt help when you have two of them, we simply cant identify whose the main man.

Klits Ward,Bradley, Berto ect all decent fighters but they cant get the juices flowing, boxing fans want a new Tyson globally unfortunately as good as they are, Wlad and Vit will always be conceived as slightly dull.

by lovely_london Tue 07 Feb 2012, 10:39 pm

Steffan wrote:
rowley wrote:Would make my day if you would all discuss the topic in hand rather than who has or has not been banned but I fear I may be setting the bar too high with that one.

You got no chance on that one

Nah back on topic...

Is the fact that neither Klitschko has really been in any high profiled wars with an opponent other than Vitali with Lewis?

They havnt really had any great opposition to make them look great if you know what I mean

They have beaten about 10 unbeeaten fighters between them. Wladamir also beat Haye who before the fight most experts including current boxers were predicting haye to win.

The litschkos are massive in Germany. They sell out a football stadium for 50000 fans every fight. all of their fights are watched by about 40% of the german population on tv. they are paid massive amounts of money to appear on german adverts.

by manos de piedra Tue 07 Feb 2012, 10:48 pm

How many non American boxers have truly transcended the sport at all really? There are not a huge amount. And the ones that have like Duran or possibly Pacquiao have generally done so via rivalries with big name American fighters.

by Imperial Ghosty Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:00 pm

lovely_london wrote:
Steffan wrote:
rowley wrote:Would make my day if you would all discuss the topic in hand rather than who has or has not been banned but I fear I may be setting the bar too high with that one.

You got no chance on that one

Nah back on topic...

Is the fact that neither Klitschko has really been in any high profiled wars with an opponent other than Vitali with Lewis?

They havnt really had any great opposition to make them look great if you know what I mean

They have beaten about 10 unbeeaten fighters between them. Wladamir also beat Haye who before the fight most experts including current boxers were predicting haye to win.

The litschkos are massive in Germany. They sell out a football stadium for 50000 fans every fight. all of their fights are watched by about 40% of the german population on tv. they are paid massive amounts of money to appear on german adverts.

That's the thing everything is done between them and in Germany, to transcend you do need to conquer America, they get good money but not the money a heavyweight champion should be getting, the same was true of Holmes he didn't get the purses he necessarily deserved.

by OasisBFC Thu 09 Feb 2012, 10:29 am

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

They have beaten about 10 unbeeaten fighters between them. Wladamir also beat Haye who before the fight most experts including current boxers were predicting haye to win.

The litschkos are massive in Germany. They sell out a football stadium for 50000 fans every fight. all of their fights are watched by about 40% of the german population on tv. they are paid massive amounts of money to appear on german adverts.

most boxing experts and current boxers expected him to win? haye was a massive under dog.
most boxing experts expected Wlad to win, although they said haye COULD win, if he landed on his chin for example. theres a difference.

by Super D Boon Thu 09 Feb 2012, 12:11 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Eastern European market is not my idea of transcending....

I'm sure there are all kinds of Madonna types I haven't heard of....

Just a private joke Steffan..

So just because they're not big in AMERICA they've not trancended?

Next you'll be saying that football (soccer to you) is not a global megasport because generally the Americans don't play it.........

by **oxring** Thu 09 Feb 2012, 12:27 pm

We need to remember that we're quite US focused where "transcended" is concerned anyway.

How many conflicts stop for Mayweather fights? How many streets around the world are filled with fans, craning their necks to watch the fight broadcast?

Some of the US fighters who we claim to have "transcended" - really have made little mark outside the Western world. Ali made a mark everywhere and could fight anywhere.

Floyd can sell a fight stateside. However - I doubt his global appeal, #1 star or not.

It is my belief that to be delared transcendent - you have to have that global appeal - which (for the record, heavily favours foreign fighters that make it stateside)

Ergo Manny is closer to transcending than Floyd.

by Imperial Ghosty Thu 09 Feb 2012, 7:19 pm

That's thing Oxy, America is the home of boxing and always has been, if you don't make it there you haven't really made it, it's where the big money is unfortunately, being big in the phillipines means nothing but being big in America is everything.

by **oxring** Fri 10 Feb 2012, 12:11 am

Imperial Ghosty wrote:That's thing Oxy, America is the home of boxing and always has been, if you don't make it there you haven't really made it, it's where the big money is unfortunately, being big in the phillipines means nothing but being big in America is everything.

That's BS Ghosty. Now - at any rate. There's money enough in Eastern Europe now. They're selling out 40,000 arenas to fight binmen - with good takings on PPV across the continent. Whereas Hopkins fighting Dawson - to determine the once-again US held LHW crown - made about 140,000 PPVs.

Ward has "made" it in the US - he's supposed to be the risen star - but how does that matter if he can't sell a fight for peanuts?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the K-bros make more from a fight than Ward does.

In fact - I'm going out on a massive limb - and I'll suggest that Wlad has made more worldwide from his last 5 than Bernard Hopkins - another guy who has "made it" stateside.

So Manny selling more than a million PPVs in the US to fight a Mexican in the US - combined with the Philippines grinding to a halt - is more transcendent for me than Floyd outselling Manny in the US - but no-one in the rest of the world giving 2 hoots.

by Steffan Fri 10 Feb 2012, 12:15 am

Im with Oxy on this one. All this 'If you aint big in America you aint nobody bla bla' is rubbish and totally exaggerated

Just some pro-American propaganda.

by Super D Boon Fri 10 Feb 2012, 3:50 pm

In boxing I don't think being big in America is needed to be transcendent anymore given that enormous fame and a great riches can be made by fighting elsewhere.

I also think my view along with anyone else's view on this subject is valid so long as it is made with a degree of intelligence....because let's face it - How do you define transcendent? Does it HAVE to mean being big in America?

Given that the population of mainland Europe plus the old Communist bloc countries must be around a billion and given the K bros' enormous popularity in that part of the world plus a not insubstantial amount of fame and popularity elsewehere in the World, add this to their respectable images as educated gentlemen outside of the ring and awards for humanitarian activities including helping disadvantaged children, I would conclude that the K brothers have indeed transcended the sport!

However, there are equally viable views to suggest that they haven't.

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