Why did Scotland lose at Murrayfield? Post mortem.

First topic message reminder :

I hate saying it but ... discuss. No WUMs please.

ultra wrote:who ever this view to the gym chap is, should obviously stay in the gym.....bench press and bicep curls, then the girls will love you, honest! England were the better team. The unholy 'breakdown' wasn't anywhere near as bad as folks make out. The golden haired second row is fantastic. England were better..........

England werent the better side. They were just as poor as Scotland in my view. Scotland dominated posession and had more breaks but could not do anything with it. England won because of a moment of brilliance by Hodgson to charge the ball down. Some will say Parks was at fault, maybe he was but Hodgson was there and did it. Well played.

"England werent the better side. They were just as poor as Scotland in my view. Scotland dominated posession and had more breaks but could not do anything with it. England won because of a moment of brilliance by Hodgson to charge the ball down. Some will say Parks was at fault, maybe he was but Hodgson was there and did it. Well played"

30 mins ago scotland were superior by your reakoning.



anyway you miss the main reason why england didnt loose the game- they didnt conceade pens in defense

mystiroakey wrote:
"England werent the better side. They were just as poor as Scotland in my view. Scotland dominated posession and had more breaks but could not do anything with it. England won because of a moment of brilliance by Hodgson to charge the ball down. Some will say Parks was at fault, maybe he was but Hodgson was there and did it. Well played"

30 mins ago scotland were superior by your reakoning.



anyway you miss the main reason why england didnt loose the game- they didnt conceade pens in defense

Jaysus. Are you thick? I have complimented Englands discipline so many times????

wow your getting abit bent out of shape arnt you. whats the problem?

eirebilly wrote:

ultra wrote:who ever this view to the gym chap is, should obviously stay in the gym.....bench press and bicep curls, then the girls will love you, honest! England were the better team. The unholy 'breakdown' wasn't anywhere near as bad as folks make out. The golden haired second row is fantastic. England were better..........

England werent the better side. They were just as poor as Scotland in my view. Scotland dominated posession and had more breaks but could not do anything with it. England won because of a moment of brilliance by Hodgson to charge the ball down. Some will say Parks was at fault, maybe he was but Hodgson was there and did it. Well played.

I'm sorry to disagree.......maybe it was the beer, but england...generally won the scrums, won the breakdowns (very rare of late we could say that), were almiost a generation younger, and won. At Murryfield. On their first outing as a new team, WON AT MURRYFIELD!!!! Even our best teams have struggled with that. GET IN! I thought we'd ship 20 points but we won. Does no-one else see the significance of this?

mystiroakey wrote:wow your getting abit bent out of shape arnt you. whats the problem?

I think you're being oversensitive. Our performance today,pens or not, would not have beaten Ireland or Wales or France. But I am sure we will play better against them and we will have the players to play a more balanced team and a hopefully more expansive game then too

ChequeredJersey wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:wow your getting abit bent out of shape arnt you. whats the problem?

I think you're being oversensitive. Our performance today,pens or not, would not have beaten Ireland or Wales or France. But I am sure we will play better against them and we will have the players to play a more balanced team and a hopefully more expansive game then too

or possibly he is getting oversensitive, he is resorting to personal attacks, i am just discussing the game

ultra wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

ultra wrote:who ever this view to the gym chap is, should obviously stay in the gym.....bench press and bicep curls, then the girls will love you, honest! England were the better team. The unholy 'breakdown' wasn't anywhere near as bad as folks make out. The golden haired second row is fantastic. England were better..........

England werent the better side. They were just as poor as Scotland in my view. Scotland dominated posession and had more breaks but could not do anything with it. England won because of a moment of brilliance by Hodgson to charge the ball down. Some will say Parks was at fault, maybe he was but Hodgson was there and did it. Well played.

I'm sorry to disagree.......maybe it was the beer, but england...generally won the scrums, won the breakdowns (very rare of late we could say that), were almiost a generation younger, and won. At Murryfield. On their first outing as a new team, WON AT MURRYFIELD!!!! Even our best teams have struggled with that. GET IN! I thought we'd ship 20 points but we won. Does no-one else see the significance of this?

I just disnt see England as being the better side. The scrums (as usual) were a mess but England did edge them. The scrappy breakdowns were won by England but the clean breakdown were won by Scotland and they had big succes in breaks around them.
Fair play to you as Murrayfield is a hard ground to win at. i am sure you will get better but today you were the second best team but won the game. It happens . A win is a win, no matter what.

What was good is that England got some very valuable experience for some young uncapped players.... thats big.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:wow your getting abit bent out of shape arnt you. whats the problem?

I think you're being oversensitive. Our performance today,pens or not, would not have beaten Ireland or Wales or France. But I am sure we will play better against them and we will have the players to play a more balanced team and a hopefully more expansive game then too

really...you lot need to get your cumulative memories into gear. England rarely - if ever- beat scotland comfortably, home or away.
A brand new team has just beaten a GOOD scotland side away from home.....jaysus, am I the only one over the moon?

scotland have good fowards average backs.england have good backs average fowards but when england get lawes,wood,flood,tuilagi back in team they will be tougher side to beat.

ultra i am happy dont worry about it, the sad truth is is that its not only scottish fans that are unhappy with the result- its plenty of other fans as well.

if people really cant understand that we wnet intoi the game with a gameplan then there are very foolish.

englands problem- conceding pens.

scottish game plan- kick goals, from pens

add two and two together and it s quite clear what to do at murryfield- especially when we havent won there for so long!!

KickAndChase wrote:And for the record ... genuinely being completely objective ... that was a try!!!

No mate, firstly he interfered with the english player by first trying to pul him back, then his momentum took his wrist past the ball and there was no significant downward pressure on the ball.

If anything he only managed to halt the roll of the ball by planting his hand in front of it.

Why did Scotland lose?

In my opinion they don't create enough space for the offloads, hence the handling errors. Everytime they got close to the line the support runner would run into the first space available and not forcing the defenders to run wider.

It is not that difficult to do when you practive it. New Zealand's Dagg, Conrad smith and a few Australians are very adept at runnung into the space at the correct angle, by running the space wider by vitue of the angle they enter the space in. This means the use the space not only to support but also to mve away from the defender at the correct angle.

Scotland fails to do that, so the support runner runs into the ball and defender at the same time and then lose ball in contact situations.

They also need a little bit of patience and sometimes they would get into a scoring position and the support runner that came from behind didn't communicate, so the ball carrier didn't see him.

ultra wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:wow your getting abit bent out of shape arnt you. whats the problem?

I think you're being oversensitive. Our performance today,pens or not, would not have beaten Ireland or Wales or France. But I am sure we will play better against them and we will have the players to play a more balanced team and a hopefully more expansive game then too

really...you lot need to get your cumulative memories into gear. England rarely - if ever- beat scotland comfortably, home or away.
A brand new team has just beaten a GOOD scotland side away from home.....jaysus, am I the only one over the moon?

I am very happy, but we were a little lucky. But a win's a win and I hope Ireland and Wales keep underestimating this squad because they have the potential when full-strength to beat them

I actually feel sorry for Scotland players think many of them are quality rugby players, grey, denton and rennie standout players. They shouldn't have been on the losing side but that's sport for you. England rode their luck but showed great discipline under huge pressure must use that as a building block and start aiming to secure more possession. Harder teams await for both teams and it will be interesting to see who comes out of this match the better. Scotland should try to see the positives and get back on the paddock, put the match behind them. I think this Scottish pack is going to give the other teams headaches as well especially if Wales are missing some of their front five.

I don't think anyone will be underestimating England at all. That would be foolish. Similarly England shouldn't underestimate Italy who definitely have the potential to cause an upset.

I think it will be a tricky game for Ireland. I wasn't impressed by England today, they didn't play well at all, but I think they are building towards something good. They brought in a lot of new players- some did well, some didn't- and it's absolutely no surprise they took time to gel. I expect them to improve as the Championship goes on.

As for Scotland, I chose the 'Scotland can't play rugby' option because it's closest to the truth. It's not true and its harsh; they did all the hard work of winning the ball and getting into the right areas but seriously- an international side can't finish of linebreaks, 2 on 1s, can't clear their lines? Basic things.

Notch I diagree wtih you, Scotland can play rugby. They didn't try to smother England or slow play down, they had a good tempo throughout the game.

They need to work on their angles and decision making processes at the final offload or pass. If that worked today they would have won fairly comfortably.

I don't bodybuild ultra so i don't care about my biceps,i powerlift may i add im married with children also may i add i have been around for ages since the old 606 so who the hell are you?

The game was poor both teams are were poor all that annoys me is when daft fans dress up the win with all the usual one liners,
the Northern Hemisphere will always be average if we accept average.

biltongbek wrote:Notch I diagree wtih you, Scotland can play rugby. They didn't try to smother England or slow play down, they had a good tempo throughout the game.

They need to work on their angles and decision making processes at the final offload or pass. If that worked today they would have won fairly comfortably.

Yeah I don't think Scotland can't play rugby. They did loads of good stuff and should have been out of sight by the end.

But thats the closest answer there; they did some basic things very poorly.

viewtothegym wrote:the Northern Hemisphere will always be average if we accept average.

Agree with this. I would be relieved if Ireland won like that, but not particularly happy.

viewtothegym wrote:I don't bodybuild ultra so i don't care about my biceps,i powerlift may i add im married with children also may i add i have been around for ages since the old 606 so who the hell are you?

The game was poor both teams are were poor all that annoys me is when daft fans dress up the win with all the usual one liners,
the Northern Hemisphere will always be average if we accept average.

Dont bite view. I did earlier with Mystiroaky and now have a V2 stalker

dont flatter yourself lad. or maybe your projecting

See

eirebilly wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:I don't bodybuild ultra so i don't care about my biceps,i powerlift may i add im married with children also may i add i have been around for ages since the old 606 so who the hell are you?

The game was poor both teams are were poor all that annoys me is when daft fans dress up the win with all the usual one liners,
the Northern Hemisphere will always be average if we accept average.

Dont bite view. I did earlier with Mystiroaky and now have a V2 stalker

You might want to call it virtual voyeurism.

"
The game was poor both teams are were poor all that annoys me is when daft fans dress up the win with all the usual one liners,
the Northern Hemisphere will always be average if we accept average"

why would england accept average. never , you can, we dont have to, we can remember being the best

duplicate post.

Then why are you so happy with an average performance?

biltongbek wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:I don't bodybuild ultra so i don't care about my biceps,i powerlift may i add im married with children also may i add i have been around for ages since the old 606 so who the hell are you?

The game was poor both teams are were poor all that annoys me is when daft fans dress up the win with all the usual one liners,
the Northern Hemisphere will always be average if we accept average.

Dont bite view. I did earlier with Mystiroaky and now have a V2 stalker

You might want to call it virtual voyeurism.

Only if it was from you

Notch wrote:Then why are you so happy with an average performance?

happy to get a win at murryfoeld, not happy being out played, happy with our lack of penaties given, not happy out tackles miseed, happy about the result, not happy about our possesion..

eirebilly wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:I don't bodybuild ultra so i don't care about my biceps,i powerlift may i add im married with children also may i add i have been around for ages since the old 606 so who the hell are you?

The game was poor both teams are were poor all that annoys me is when daft fans dress up the win with all the usual one liners,
the Northern Hemisphere will always be average if we accept average.

Dont bite view. I did earlier with Mystiroaky and now have a V2 stalker

You might want to call it virtual voyeurism.

Only if it was from you

I thought we established I stomp in a straight line, not stalk.

If Wales won like that tomorrow i would be gutted and it would feel more like a loss,
Just fed up with it all, on a few South African forums they are laughing and ripping into the quality of rugby.

Notch wrote:Then why are you so happy with an average performance?

It was an improvement over the World Cup, for the minuscule consolation that is

viewtothegym wrote:If Wales won like that tomorrow i would be gutted and it would feel more like a loss,
Just fed up with it all, on a few South African forums they are laughing and ripping into the quality of rugby.

Sorry View, on behalf of all decent south african folk, I apologise.

No it wasn't it was far worse than the world cup

biltongbek wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:I don't bodybuild ultra so i don't care about my biceps,i powerlift may i add im married with children also may i add i have been around for ages since the old 606 so who the hell are you?

The game was poor both teams are were poor all that annoys me is when daft fans dress up the win with all the usual one liners,
the Northern Hemisphere will always be average if we accept average.

Dont bite view. I did earlier with Mystiroaky and now have a V2 stalker

You might want to call it virtual voyeurism.

Only if it was from you

I thought we established I stomp in a straight line, not stalk.

You can still stalk, just run over the people in your way... Get with it biltong

biltongbek wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:If Wales won like that tomorrow i would be gutted and it would feel more like a loss,
Just fed up with it all, on a few South African forums they are laughing and ripping into the quality of rugby.

Sorry View, on behalf of all decent south african folk, I apologise.

Yeah, thats true. I would be optimistic enough if I was in your shoes. A lot of guys have been thrown in the deep end and it will take them a while to get up to speed.

viewtothegym wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:If Wales won like that tomorrow i would be gutted and it would feel more like a loss,
Just fed up with it all, on a few South African forums they are laughing and ripping into the quality of rugby.

Sorry View, on behalf of all decent south african folk, I apologise.

It's not supposed to be funny, I am serious.

viewtothegym wrote:I don't bodybuild ultra so i don't care about my biceps,i powerlift may i add im married with children also may i add i have been around for ages since the old 606 so who the hell are you?

The game was poor both teams are were poor all that annoys me is when daft fans dress up the win with all the usual one liners,
the Northern Hemisphere will always be average if we accept average.

Aww no, you had to mention powerlifting, its ok, i believe you......however this aint about a clean and jerk, this is about an england scotland game of rugby. Think now, if you're able of such a thing, to an england - scotland rugby game. Even the best england sides look poor against bad scotland sides...specially away from home. This isn't the best england side and its not a poor scotland side. I suggest you stop with the deadlifts and try plying hard games of rugby in difficult surroundings against a GOOD team. Scotland were a GOOD team. England won. As I would in an arm wrestle eith you good sir

Mad for Chelsea wrote:on a side-note, it's wonderful to see posters who confidently predicted a Scotland win before the game to be now dismissing it as a load of rubbish and making Italy favourites for next week.

In my defense I predicted a 7+ point win for england and Scotland to be rubbish, at least I knew what was coming... Hell I've seen it for the last 12 years from them!

Oh dear.

Its pretty obvious that they really did it just to annoy the welsh

Peterseabiscuit- 'They really did it just to annoy the Welsh'


So Peter, you must be feeling quite annoyed then?

Just how many accounts do you have?

They lost because they were arrogant enough to have T-shirts printed with Scotland Calcutta Cup Winners before the game. Can't imagine why anyone would do something like that?

Anyone else think that ickle Jonathan Davies on the commentary team looked crest fallen that England won. He looked like a man that had just lost his shirt betting on Scotland.

eirebilly wrote:I would love to say that Scotland will turn this around but i have been saying that for years. On this performance Italy will almost certainly beat Scotland.

After that performance Id say Italy will be fancying their chances against England and Scotland.
Awful game, neither side impressed me and both lacked creativity and imagination.
Lets hope for a better game tomorrow.

englandglory4ever wrote:They lost because they were arrogant enough to have T-shirts printed with Scotland Calcutta Cup Winners before the game. Can't imagine why anyone would do something like that?

Who is "they"? It was an eff-up by an independent sports company and was nothing to do with the SRU.

Sorry if that truth poos in your salad of apparently trying to brand 5 million people and a governing sports organisation with some juvenille, vitriolic label.

overlordofthewest wrote:

eirebilly wrote:I would love to say that Scotland will turn this around but i have been saying that for years. On this performance Italy will almost certainly beat Scotland.

After that performance Id say Italy will be fancying their chances against England and Scotland.
Awful game, neither side impressed me and both lacked creativity and imagination.
Lets hope for a better game tomorrow.

Absolutely they will. Italy look very solid this year

Backline is still kak though

True gowales but the the scorecars doesnt reflect the game yesterday