England Squad News - Updated 07/02/12

First topic message reminder :

07/02/12

Again from the RFU's Twitter:

SQUAD UPDATE: Attwood, Banahan, Clark, K. Dickson, Flood, Mears, Sharples & Waldrom all return to their clubs this w/e

Flood's obviously the big one, meaning we are unlikely to see changes in the 10, 12, 13 or 21 shirt this weekend. Dickson leaves the squad as his brother returns to fitness and Sharples, who many feel deserves a chance, also returns to his club.

~~~~~

From the RFU's Twitter:

Scrum half Lee Dickson fractured metacarpal in his left hand at Murrayfield so Quins' Karl Dickson is called up as cover

and

Fly half Toby Flood also returns in place of Alex Goode but Tom Wood, Manu Tuilagi and Courtney Lawes remain at their clubs

~~~~

So we'll probably see Simpson take to the bench in place of Lee Dickson. Not sure if Flood will be restored to the starting line-up, but expect to see him in the 22. I would imagine this would mean Turner-Hall missing out.

doctor_grey wrote:

Armchairexpert wrote:How long does a metacarpal take to mend? I thought Dickson did well and would like to have seen him start against Italy

Really depends on the severity of the injury and where it is. The metacarpals are the finger bones just inside the hand right before the knuckle. If severely broken or broken at a joint, he would have been in fairly obvious pain and would have been limited. It is not uncommon to have a stress fracture of these bones and not even think fracture, just think its bruising. A person can be virtually completely functional with a stress fracture of these bones if not near a joint. Since Dickson has been given approval to play, we can assume there was some swelling and bruising, but no serious injury.

But Id assume it will limit his training in the week, and be more subject to the risk of injury in the game?

Ah, you have seen into my magic bag of tricks! The magic sponge is the oldest medical tool in the world, I think.

I help a lot of youth programs, just as a volunteer. There are plenty of very competent docs working with pro sports teams on a daily basis. I like helping the kids and their programmes. Frequently they might not otherwise not have direct access on the pitch to a qualified doctor.

Besides, the medical practices I am a part of at home, and in the US (where I am this school year) see a lot of pro athletes. Last night I was sent the file for comment, for one of the NY Giants who hurt his knee in the Super Bowl (ACL). One of my associates is performing the operation. I see a lot of athletes, and some are pros. Many more are like us.

That's really interesting stuff, and I like your justification of helping the children. Sounds like such an interesting career, wish I'd gone down that route in a way. I imagine with the physicality of nfl, there's a quite a few doctors who are employed on a heavy basis for their input. Cheers for the info Doctor Grey, great insight.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:But Id assume it will limit his training in the week, and be more subject to the risk of injury in the game?

I haven't seen the file, but I'd suspect only bruising. If the injury is to the bone just behind the shallow cavity in the middle of the hand (above the palm), then it won't limit him, or at least much. That would be very much of an ibuprofen and ice injury. And the risk of re-injury is pretty low. It is actually kind of a freak injury in Rugby, unless his hand was stepped on?

No problem, mate.
Any time you need the magic sponge, please let me know. My wife throws it at me all the time...............

I guess the only question then is was it his "favoured" hand and has that limited the amount of "light relief" he got from watching the England womens game?

Maybe a little exercise and the hand is good as new??????

I imagine for professional team there are two very different jobs:
1. Fixing people up quickly so they can get back on the pitch
2. Fixing people up slowly so they can get back into the team, whilst working with the conditioning coaches to prevent repeat injuries.

So.. Lancaster has said that there will be XV vs XV man-o v man-o at training to decide team for Italy. AND specifically Dowson v Morgan for 8.

This is wrong in my view.

It should be Dowson v Croft for 6 with Morgan starting at 8.

Is it going to be 1st XV bs 2nds or two mixed XVs? Cause it should really be the latter...

Didnt say, just that all the fringe players will get plenty of game time to prove their worth.

It sounds like a great way to get people injured.

It's a cunning plan to injure those he wants to drop but feels he can't.

ChequeredJersey wrote:It's a cunning plan to injure those he wants to drop but feels he can't.

Obviously he doesnt want Flood back or to have children....

Update (OP Updated)

07/02/12

Again from the RFU's Twitter:

SQUAD UPDATE: Attwood, Banahan, Clark, K. Dickson, Flood, Mears, Sharples & Waldrom all return to their clubs this w/e

Flood's obviously the big one, meaning we are unlikely to see changes in the 10, 12, 13 or 21 shirt this weekend. Dickson leaves the squad as his brother returns to fitness and Sharples, who many feel deserves a chance, also returns to his club.

Who does that leave then? I'm guessing the team will be from:

Forwards (13)

Mouritz Botha (Saracens)
Alex Corbisiero (London Irish)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers)
Phil Dowson (Northampton Saints)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Ben Morgan (Scarlets)
Tom Palmer (Stade Francais)
Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
Matt Stevens (Saracens)
Rob Webber (London Wasps)

Backs (10)

Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints)
Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
Ben Foden (Northampton Saints)
Charlie Hodgson (Saracens)
David Strettle (Saracens)
Jordan Turner-Hall (Harlequins)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

So probably an unchanged 22. Joe Marler could force his way in, although I think Corbs had a good game. Maybe Marler could take Parling's place on the bench (giving us a full front row to come on), with Croft covering second row.

The only other likely change would be to see Morgan start over Dowson or Dickson to start over Youngs.

I think we could possibly see Webber get his first start in this match...

Why? Hes not really a stand out player, Hartley is a proven performer and did well in the scrum and lineout. In tehory he offers a bit around the park although he hasnt been doing that so much recently.
England have what appears to be a functional front row, why on earth would he want to mess with one of the few bits of he team thats reached an acceptable standard?

Plus the Italian line out is probably not as strong as the Scottish lineout, so there's less pressure on the thrower. (Opposite for the scrum).

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Why? Hes not really a stand out player, Hartley is a proven performer and did well in the scrum and lineout. In tehory he offers a bit around the park although he hasnt been doing that so much recently.
England have what appears to be a functional front row, why on earth would he want to mess with one of the few bits of he team thats reached an acceptable standard?

Sorry, completely forgot we weren't allowed hunches.

Hartley's been poor around the park, and that is something that Webber offers in abundance. He's been in camp long enough now to improve his throwing, so it was just a feeling I had! Bliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiimey

If Lancaster is true to his word, and if Webber proves better in training, he's in.

That said, how you do in training is not the same as throwing a straight ball in front of 40,000 Italians, 5m from your line.

Alex_Germany wrote:If Lancaster is true to his word, and if Webber proves better in training, he's in.

That said, how you do in training is not the same as throwing a straight ball in front of 40,000 Italians, 5m from your line.

True true, but I think one of the main aspects of international coaching is preparing players for the larger stage, and learning to deal with it.

Morgan to start at 8, with Dowson dropping to the bench, otherwise the same 22 as Saturday. Don't see any reason for dropping Parling from the bench in favour of Marler, especially against Italy who have a very strong and experienced scrummaging front row. Stevens keeps the bench spot because he cover both sides to at least some extent (still think he scrums much better at tight head though).

Webber might get 20 minutes off the bench if we are either well ahead or well behind, but as PSW said, why mess with one of the few units of the team that performed pretty well and is the current first choice unit (I think Corbs would now be picked in preference to a fit Sheridan at l/h, and the other two are the established starters).

Changes to the back division will have to wait for the Wales game, when both Flood and Manu T should be available - both are playing for Leicester this weekend, so should get a couple of games under their belts before the next international. Just hope we show a bit more intent and invention in attack this week - I think Morgan's ball carrying power could be a big asset in this regard, as we need the forwards to break the gain line and pull the defence about before moving the ball wider.

dummy_half wrote:

Webber might get 20 minutes off the bench if we are either well ahead or well behind, but as PSW said, why mess with one of the few units of the team that performed pretty well and is the current first choice unit (I think Corbs would now be picked in preference to a fit Sheridan at l/h, and the other two are the established starters).

I think Sheridan's effectively retired from internationals now, especially given his Toulon move. We might have seen the last of him, which is a real shame

Maybe Marler could take Parling's place on the bench (giving us a full front row to come on), with Croft covering second row

Considering the damage Castro has done to Marler in recent seasons I don't think that would be a good idea. Parling played well against Scotland and I think probably deserves a start and certainly not to be dropped, the lineout functioned better when he took over and against the Italians he should get more opportunity to show his carrying skills.

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Considering the damage Castro has done to Marler in recent seasons I don't think that would be a good idea. Parling played well against Scotland and I think probably deserves a start and certainly not to be dropped, the lineout functioned better when he took over and against the Italians he should get more opportunity to show his carrying skills.

+1

Well i thought the front row did very well on Sat...and asmentioned above are a functional unit. Corbs had a blinder so why on earth would we replace him with Marler?

The second Rows...well i thought Palmer was invisible...and i dont even mean that he was doing the hidden dark arts rubbish....
Botha whilst not perfect got stuck in and worked very hard. Id call up Garvey to repalce Palmer.
(Edit : Or Give Parling a start..Forgot about him)
Croft is not physical enough for Second Row!!

Back row....well Dowson was quiet so i would probably replace him with Morgan...

Youngs at SH is a concern. However lets give him one more game and see how he goes against Italy.
Flood is only just back so why rush him in. Hodgson did ok under alot of pressure last week...so give him another chance.

The midfield...whilst not particularly creative is solid...so i'd keep it for another game...oh for Tuilagi to be fit. Id consider bringing up another young 13 for the bench though...dependant on whos been getting games and form...May?, JJ?

So i'd start somthing like:

1 Corbs
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Garvey / Parling
5 Botha
6 Croft
7 Robshaw C
8 Morgan

9 Youngs
10 Hodgson
11 Ashton
12 Baritt (Alternating)
13 Farrell (Alternating)
14 Strettle
15 Foden