Should Naz's retirement timing hurt his legacy!!

Or has it done so already????

Loved watching him fight and thought he was a guy like Pryor who did everything wrong - RIGHT!!! Very few small fighters i've seen carried his power and at his best was awesome to watch!!! On paper probably a near-great!!

However I always felt he was a bully and seeing him in the flesh at a Works gathering ..kind of summed up to me everything I'd thought about how he'd be....A not very nice guy!!...But hey not liking someone shouldn't affect his standing!!!!

If we are honest the guy quit because someone beat him...came back all gunshy and lost his bottle!!!....A confidence fighter for sure Naz..but Barrera wasn't invincible and there were other options available...

For me his retirement summed the guy up to a certain extent and for me in World terms it does affect his legacy...A heart-less exit!!

But maybe I'm wrong!!

Well Truss, if like you suggest he was predominantly a confidence fighter who needed that feeling of invincibility to thrive, then I'd say he retired at just about the best time he could have done, as broken confidence and a more circumspect approach to fighting would surely have resulted in more losses further down the line.

I do think you're on to something with that, mind you, but I also think that Hamed was falling out of love with boxing for a while before the Barrera bout. I almost get the impression that even had he won that fight, his days may still have been ending not that long afterwards.

Hamed gets derided for his retirement timing perhaps more than any other British fighter, but I'm not convinced it's entirely warranted. As we've seen with McGuigan, and perhaps now with Haye, if your heart's not in it, you shouldn't be in the ring as you're always going to be found out in such a brutal and unforgiving sport under such circumstances. As it goes, Hamed left us with his glorious prime still fresh in our minds, with just one defeat on his ledger, to a genuine modern great who had plenty of distinguishing moments still to come, and even then it was a fight where he was outboxed and outthought, but not totally outclassed or left on his back. I bet there are a few other British greats we all wish had gone out in a comparable way, to be honest.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Or has it done so already????

Loved watching him fight and thought he was a guy like Pryor who did everything wrong - RIGHT!!! Very few small fighters i've seen carried his power and at his best was awesome to watch!!! On paper probably a near-great!!

However I always felt he was a bully and seeing him in the flesh at a Works gathering ..kind of summed up to me everything I'd thought about how he'd be....A not very nice guy!!...But hey not liking someone shouldn't affect his standing!!!!

If we are honest the guy quit because someone beat him...came back all gunshy and lost his bottle!!!....A confidence fighter for sure Naz..but Barrera wasn't invincible and there were other options available...

For me his retirement summed the guy up to a certain extent and for me in World terms it does affect his legacy...A heart-less exit!!

But maybe I'm wrong!!

I think he just pain under estimated Barrera. Barrera fought a completely different fight to what he is accustomed and spanked Naz who just couldn't adapt (probably due to a lack of plan b).

Him retiring does effect his standing as he has left a lot of questioned unanswered.

Mcguigan came back after his defeat and beat some fringe contenders.....He was cut to bits against McDonnell.........

This guy was basically a bully who didn't appreciate getting a slap.....

and basically threw in the towel......

Slight difference and maybe not as black and white....

Unlike Mcguigan he seemed to lack heart!!!

Question is should that detract...

Interesting..eloquent asssessment from you though...which I disagree with!!

Not sure it hurts him too much because am not sure what he would have acheived had he continued because it was clear he was in regression, simply wasn't interested or willing to put the graft in that all Ingle fighters state is essential for that style of fighting, trading as it does so much on reflexes.

If the Barrera fight was not sufficient to provide him with the kick up the rear nothing would, and the Calvo fight after certainly suggests it did not provide the motivation to knuckle down. For me retiring at an early age is only a regret if there is a genuine feeling the fighter involved genuinely has anything left to offer and for me I am not sure Naz did, what also should not be forgotten is had he hung around at feather he may have found himself running slap bang into the likes of Morales, Marquez and Manny who are not guys you want to be fighting if you are playing at the game.

Calvo fight for me wasn't about knuckling down Rowley...Think he was worried about being hit (of course no one likes it) and refused to engage like a top fighter should!!!!

Those that detract like me might sight lack of heart as a reason for being marked down...

but hey who questions Walcott pathetic offering in Marciano 2....

Think he lacked the heart of a real champion..but I mark him high on achievement..

I dont think he lost his bottle. I believe he simply lost motivation. Silk pyjamas and all that. He made his money and left. Good luck to him. Brought excitement and went out with his health and faculties intact.

Disagree...anyone can see he was gunshy!!

but you're welcome to your opinion..

It's interesting because it wasn't just Barrera that finished him it was the disdainful crowd in Hamed's final fight that booed him for a duff showing. He spat his dummy out and never came back.

Bully is the right word. He was just like Ali in style but had none of Ali's redeeming characteristics.

Think you're right Ali used to demean opponents to try to get an edge before a fight..or in extreme cases to back up his beliefs!!!!!

This guy just seemed to enjoy demeaning for demeaning sake.....

Just an odious guy.......

Being gunshy normally happens after suffering a KO or several KDs. He didn't appear gunshy after Kelly.

The MAB fight wasn't a severe beating either. I believe he simply lost the will to get up at 4am to jog and train.

He beat Kelley...and the knockdowns were flash......

He lost his bottle.......Barrera hurt him psychologically and he questionned himself..

Cocky..bullying fighters often get laid bare..........

However most tend to at least try to even the score..

Lost his motivation. He wasn't gunshy. He started losing the plot when he left Ingle's camp. Steward could handle him. Naz beleievd his own hype and believed he had to turn up to win.

MAB tought him otherwise and that to win he had to train hard. He didn't have it in him anymore to train as he should so he retired.

Good for him.

Well I'm saying he didn't lose his motivation.....alright!!!

Well I'm saying that he did and that you're wrong..........again...aiight?

Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing..

Think his ego was so big Alma that when it got deflated.....

It was over..

bullyboy..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing..

Indeed it is my man. Keep hope alive. Let freedom sing from the mountain tops or west virginia.

I know it's the North but could we sing it from the Blue Ridge mountains of Virginia as well......

I'm sentimental!!!

I also think that as with Calzaghe, Hamed loved his '0' a little too much. I read interviews with him in the lead up to Barrera and it was obvious he could not fathom defeat and believed he was somehow invincible. Whoever put a 1 in the loss column was always going to finish off Hamed psychologically.

Bully boy is right though, as soon as his ego got deflated he showed himself up to be lacking the necessary middle parts to get back in there and fight.

A truly horrid character of low moral fibre.

You should read Joe Calzaghe's book and the episode with Carl thompson...gives you a good idea of his personality!!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You should read Joe Calzaghe's book and the episode with Carl thompson...gives you a good idea of his personality!!

Ha ha yeah, didn't he wind up Carl Thompson in Vegas by bragging about how rich he was compared to poor Carl, then Carl bleats "At least I don't have to pay a woman to have sex with me"

Classic stuff. Shame Carl didn't decide to flatten him at the time.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You should read Joe Calzaghe's book and the episode with Carl thompson...gives you a good idea of his personality!!

Yep read that chapter Carl Thompson apparently one of the easiest guy's in boxing to get on with,Junior Whitter said everybody in the gym would be in great spirits then Hamed walked in and the mood just changed,Bomber Graham went to the gym to see Brendan Ingle, Hamed told him to get out sums Hamed up really obnoxios little man with a huge ego.

Was Hameds legacy damaged for me yes retired at 28 after telling everyone he was going to be a legend,didn't seek a rematch with Barerra,didn't fight Morales,Pacquiao, or Marquez the top fighters in his era so legacy is well tarnished IMO.

We can all speculate as to whether he would have beaten Barrera in a rematch or any of the above fighters mentioned, he didn't stay around to even try he got beat and was unable to accept defeat.

It raises question marks over how good he really was for many but those who followed Hamed's career with interest like myself knew that the writing was already on the wall for Hameds exit from the sport from as early as 1998ish.. Like others have already mentioned his ego was totally out of control, his once great relationship with Ingle had cracked he had surrounded himself with pure Yes men and his work ethic both in the gym and in the ring were dwindling rapidly.

A prime Hamed was capable of beating anybody in the division, he would be a threat to anybody but the Hamed from 1998 onwards would have picked up more losses than victories against the elite crop that's for sure so he probably saved his career somewhat by retiring when he did. MAB proved Hamed couldn't just turn up fight night with woeful preparation and expect to kayo the best in the division with pot shots and lunges and he didn't like that at all. He no longer had the hunger and desire needed to get back to his best which is where needed to be to stand a chance at beating Barrera, Morales, Marquez and the like, so Hamed was looking down the barrel of picking up some more losses or calling it a day. He was always going to retire I'm afraid.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Or has it done so already????

Loved watching him fight and thought he was a guy like Pryor who did everything wrong - RIGHT!!! Very few small fighters i've seen carried his power and at his best was awesome to watch!!! On paper probably a near-great!!

However I always felt he was a bully and seeing him in the flesh at a Works gathering ..kind of summed up to me everything I'd thought about how he'd be....A not very nice guy!!...But hey not liking someone shouldn't affect his standing!!!!

If we are honest the guy quit because someone beat him...came back all gunshy and lost his bottle!!!....A confidence fighter for sure Naz..but Barrera wasn't invincible and there were other options available...

For me his retirement summed the guy up to a certain extent and for me in World terms it does affect his legacy...A heart-less exit!!

But maybe I'm wrong!!

No, because Prince Naseem Hamed retired when Naz was only 28 years old.

I always thought he was struggling to find feasible fights that would have a big enough draw to surpass his declining interest in training and the sport in general. At the time that Naz had peaked, Juan Manuel Marquez was an unknown quantity at 126lbs, Mayweather was only just emerging and Gatti was already looking to move to 135. So for Naz to find an opponent in the same weight class that would give him the financial reward, challenge and drive to continue was limited.

Also fully agree that he underestimated MAB but I would say that he did not for me have a basic bully mentality. I think Tyson represents the perfect modern mould of a bully type fighter who never over came adversity in a fight which cannot be said of Naz. Alicia, Kelley, Ingle along with a few other fights he showed he could bite down on his gum shield and win very demanding fights.

His legacy for me is cemented as he won all the major belts (WBA should be ashamed for stripping Wilfredo Vasquez) and cleaned out the division.

It is hard to say whether he retired too early or not as we all have seen the squared circle is not a place to be if you have not put in the work and have fallen out of love with the sport. Also with the names I have mentioned were starting to be the leading lights in the sport, I think Hamed knew he would have to have been at his very best to topple these guys and his cutting corners attitude was something he could no longer over come.

mikeymax71 wrote:I always thought he was struggling to find feasible fights that would have a big enough draw to surpass his declining interest in training and the sport in general. At the time that Naz had peaked, Juan Manuel Marquez was an unknown quantity at 126lbs, Mayweather was only just emerging and Gatti was already looking to move to 135. So for Naz to find an opponent in the same weight class that would give him the financial reward, challenge and drive to continue was limited.

Also fully agree that he underestimated MAB but I would say that he did not for me have a basic bully mentality. I think Tyson represents the perfect modern mould of a bully type fighter who never over came adversity in a fight which cannot be said of Naz. Alicia, Kelley, Ingle along with a few other fights he showed he could bite down on his gum shield and win very demanding fights.

His legacy for me is cemented as he won all the major belts (WBA should be ashamed for stripping Wilfredo Vasquez) and cleaned out the division.

It is hard to say whether he retired too early or not as we all have seen the squared circle is not a place to be if you have not put in the work and have fallen out of love with the sport. Also with the names I have mentioned were starting to be the leading lights in the sport, I think Hamed knew he would have to have been at his very best to topple these guys and his cutting corners attitude was something he could no longer over come.

Besides, Hamed, 38, is younger than Barrera, 38, and than Juan Manuel Marquez, 38.