That´s more like it!!
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formerly known as Sam
ChequeredJersey
Impossible Standards
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler
gnollbeast
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That´s more like it!!
I marvel at the expectation the 6N generates on this board. Pre-match threads about Wales and Ireland and England vs Scotland generated a lot of interest before the kick-off and on the whole it was entertaining and insightful. This tournament in its set up is truly the envy of the South.
Yet too often in recent times, the rugby that has followed this heated and passionate debate has not lived up to the hype. Recently, one team has done enough to win the tournament with the big matches like England vs Ireland, France vs England one-sided affairs that never live up to the intensity of the debate preceding the match. Sometimes we see games that go against the run of play like Italy´s win against France last year but too often one team gives a meek and rather limp performance like a salad in a cheap buffet restaurant and the other side only has to go through the motions like workers at their desks on a Friday afternoon.
OK, the games on Saturday weren't terribly exciting but the England vs Scotland game in particular was tense and kept your interest to the end. A try was finally scored at Murrayfield and predictably tries went begging for Scotland. But the Scots, despite their deficiencies, gave a generally good account of themselves and let themselves down in the passing department. The English defended stoutly and had to work hard, with little possession, for their win. They won't be writing fairytales about the match but it was a step up from previous encounters between the two sides.
Then we came to the Sunday match. I feel compelled to write a bit more about this match because this was a great game of rugby to watch. It had everything you want in a match: a see-saw battle with two sides trying to impose their will on the match to varying degrees of success at different times throughout the match. And therein lies the real reason for this game´s glowing praise: both sides were in this match and both sides had the opportunity to win the game. This was not like Ireland vs England last year, commendable as that forward display was by the Irish forwards this match, where one side were able to impose their style of play on the match.
It started off with Welsh errors and a well taken penalty by Sexton. Then it was all Wales. They moved the ball with purpose and with speed. A video ref call early on not giving the benefit of doubt (rightly so) to Ryan Jones and then sustained pressure by Wales, which culminated in a well taken try in the corner. Priestland expertly sucked in two defenders and gave a lovely reverse hand pass to Davies. Priestland did well to hit the post but his kicking never got any better than that and gave much the same result.
But with Wales getting the possession and the early run of play, Ireland did not wilt. They looked static on attack but at least defended effectively. How often though do we see sides soak up the early pressure and then come back the stronger in the half. This was what Ireland did precisely and the Scottish backs would do well to watch the Irish try at the close of the half. Nothing much was really on but the benefits of running and passing through the hands was beautifully illustrated. D'Arcy gave a nice quick pass to Bowe, who straightened up the attack (too often we see lateral running and passing when the attack screams out to be straightened and for gaps to appear from that straightening up as a result) and gave a lovely delayed pass to Best who ran round unopposed.
So Ireland, for all their defending, went into the half time break 5 points up and with their tails justifiably up. It didn´t get much better after the break for Wales. They had lost their captain with a dead leg and got behind early with a penalty well taken from Sexton who curled it in. When things aren´t going your way, it´s easy to put your head down. The Irish forwards were often using the tactic which worked so well for them against Australia of wrapping up the tackled player and preventing him from getting to ground and having the ball rucked out. Phillips looked slower in clearing the ball and Priestland looked like someone coming back from injury. It was an inspired move to shift the kicking responsibilities to Halfpenny after Priestland looked like he was going for the record of worst sliced kick at goal. His penalty seemed to lift Wales and then came an inspired bit of brilliance from George North. Wales have often relied on individual brilliance from Williams to get them back into the game. This time North proved that he is capable of turning a game. He targeted McFadden (I think Roberts was far from his best and coming back from injury that was going to be the case) who really should´ve been targeted more considering the boots he was trying to fill and I don´t mean Earls', who was an unfortunate loss to Ireland. North bounced McFadden off much like Lomu used to throw around people and although I don´t like comparisons to players of different eras, there´s no doubting this kid has tremendous strength and pace and with his height he is a real handful. So not only does he draw in defenders but he slips a Sonny Bill like pass out of the back of his hand to Davies who straightens up the attack and turns the fullback inside out and runs to the line unopposed. That was a try for all to savour as rugby neutrals (I´m sure the Irish boys weren´t too thrilled to see it scored against them but I don´t think any of them would deny the beauty of it).
So it´s a one point game and then stupidity from the namesake of the tryscorer. After the Warburton incident, surely this style of tackling has been brought up in the dressing room time and time again. So for him to react in this manner beggars belief and why he did not receive a red card like Warburton (that has been discussed before but this warranted red in my opinion as it was much worse than Warburton´s effort and certainly a world away from the Irish yellow card at the end of the match). Ireland reacted positively to the extra man they had on Wales and it was a brilliant combination of burying in for the try among the forwards and the foresight of Sexton to use the man advantage and send the ball out wide to Bowe who finished well but it must be said was lucky to have the player move ill-advisedly behind him to attempt the tackle instead of in front of him.
I was watching the match with an Irish friend and when the conversion was unsuccessful, he was noticeably upset and had the gnawing thought at the back of his head that the miss would come back to haunt Ireland. I laughed at his pessimism and said with an extra man, this match was Ireland´s to lose. And so it proved.
Now I can understand the thinking behind Kidney to bring O´Gara on. He´s your man well accustomed to closing out games and with a better kicking game. Hindsight is an annoying thing but I really do think it turned out to be the wrong move. O´Gara´s kick offs weren´t great. After the North try where some rather weak tackling and some powerful running got Wales within 1, you could understand the move to go deep. Unfortunately, Wales looked full of running. One man down tends to bring a team together and often you work harder because of your man disadvantage. Maybe the training in freezers in Poland did some good or maybe because the team behind seems more attacking minded. Whatever the reason, Ireland looked out on their feet and Wales were able to make easy yards from the kick off. Then the man who came back on the field was tipped up and the tackler was given a yellow. A penalty, maybe, but personally I think it was a very hard call. I haven´t had another look at it but my initial impression it was a tough call. I hate to think aggressive tackling is forsaken for making sure a player is not tipped up. Certainly it had nothing to do with the Bradley Davies tackle.
Anyway, Halfpenny made no mistake and O´Gara kicks too deep not allowing his forwards a chance to contest for the ball and it was all too easy for Wales to clear the ball. Is that harsh on O´Gara? OK, he had hardly been in the game but when your team has to get the ball, as an international flyhalf you have to get that ball up high and shallow to give your team a chance.
So heartbreak for Ireland and reward for Wales for never giving up hope even when they were a man down. This was a game where the two sides battled throughout the game for ascendancy. Wouldn´t it be great if we saw the same with Ireland against France next match or Scotland giving Wales a run for their money. A win for Ireland and Scotland would be great for the tournament although no doubt the Welsh and French would disagree. But a few teams on joint points at the top is much better in my opinion than one team clear out in front and a jostling for points in the middle of the table. Here´s hoping we can have four teams at least competing for top position, which would breathe new life into the tournament. We saw how Ireland´s win against Australia turned the RWC on its head. I think it´d be great for this year´s 6N to have a similar result that saw at least 4 teams playing good rugby and for the results to be not so one-sided.
So well done to Wales and Ireland for giving us a fantastic match. I laugh at how even the Irish supporters stop talking for the kicks in the bar. I wouldn´t put too much stock in the booing for the last match. It was more an outpouring of emotion to a game that was cruelly taken away from them. Bring on the next round and here´s hoping we can see something similar again. Bravo!
Yet too often in recent times, the rugby that has followed this heated and passionate debate has not lived up to the hype. Recently, one team has done enough to win the tournament with the big matches like England vs Ireland, France vs England one-sided affairs that never live up to the intensity of the debate preceding the match. Sometimes we see games that go against the run of play like Italy´s win against France last year but too often one team gives a meek and rather limp performance like a salad in a cheap buffet restaurant and the other side only has to go through the motions like workers at their desks on a Friday afternoon.
OK, the games on Saturday weren't terribly exciting but the England vs Scotland game in particular was tense and kept your interest to the end. A try was finally scored at Murrayfield and predictably tries went begging for Scotland. But the Scots, despite their deficiencies, gave a generally good account of themselves and let themselves down in the passing department. The English defended stoutly and had to work hard, with little possession, for their win. They won't be writing fairytales about the match but it was a step up from previous encounters between the two sides.
Then we came to the Sunday match. I feel compelled to write a bit more about this match because this was a great game of rugby to watch. It had everything you want in a match: a see-saw battle with two sides trying to impose their will on the match to varying degrees of success at different times throughout the match. And therein lies the real reason for this game´s glowing praise: both sides were in this match and both sides had the opportunity to win the game. This was not like Ireland vs England last year, commendable as that forward display was by the Irish forwards this match, where one side were able to impose their style of play on the match.
It started off with Welsh errors and a well taken penalty by Sexton. Then it was all Wales. They moved the ball with purpose and with speed. A video ref call early on not giving the benefit of doubt (rightly so) to Ryan Jones and then sustained pressure by Wales, which culminated in a well taken try in the corner. Priestland expertly sucked in two defenders and gave a lovely reverse hand pass to Davies. Priestland did well to hit the post but his kicking never got any better than that and gave much the same result.
But with Wales getting the possession and the early run of play, Ireland did not wilt. They looked static on attack but at least defended effectively. How often though do we see sides soak up the early pressure and then come back the stronger in the half. This was what Ireland did precisely and the Scottish backs would do well to watch the Irish try at the close of the half. Nothing much was really on but the benefits of running and passing through the hands was beautifully illustrated. D'Arcy gave a nice quick pass to Bowe, who straightened up the attack (too often we see lateral running and passing when the attack screams out to be straightened and for gaps to appear from that straightening up as a result) and gave a lovely delayed pass to Best who ran round unopposed.
So Ireland, for all their defending, went into the half time break 5 points up and with their tails justifiably up. It didn´t get much better after the break for Wales. They had lost their captain with a dead leg and got behind early with a penalty well taken from Sexton who curled it in. When things aren´t going your way, it´s easy to put your head down. The Irish forwards were often using the tactic which worked so well for them against Australia of wrapping up the tackled player and preventing him from getting to ground and having the ball rucked out. Phillips looked slower in clearing the ball and Priestland looked like someone coming back from injury. It was an inspired move to shift the kicking responsibilities to Halfpenny after Priestland looked like he was going for the record of worst sliced kick at goal. His penalty seemed to lift Wales and then came an inspired bit of brilliance from George North. Wales have often relied on individual brilliance from Williams to get them back into the game. This time North proved that he is capable of turning a game. He targeted McFadden (I think Roberts was far from his best and coming back from injury that was going to be the case) who really should´ve been targeted more considering the boots he was trying to fill and I don´t mean Earls', who was an unfortunate loss to Ireland. North bounced McFadden off much like Lomu used to throw around people and although I don´t like comparisons to players of different eras, there´s no doubting this kid has tremendous strength and pace and with his height he is a real handful. So not only does he draw in defenders but he slips a Sonny Bill like pass out of the back of his hand to Davies who straightens up the attack and turns the fullback inside out and runs to the line unopposed. That was a try for all to savour as rugby neutrals (I´m sure the Irish boys weren´t too thrilled to see it scored against them but I don´t think any of them would deny the beauty of it).
So it´s a one point game and then stupidity from the namesake of the tryscorer. After the Warburton incident, surely this style of tackling has been brought up in the dressing room time and time again. So for him to react in this manner beggars belief and why he did not receive a red card like Warburton (that has been discussed before but this warranted red in my opinion as it was much worse than Warburton´s effort and certainly a world away from the Irish yellow card at the end of the match). Ireland reacted positively to the extra man they had on Wales and it was a brilliant combination of burying in for the try among the forwards and the foresight of Sexton to use the man advantage and send the ball out wide to Bowe who finished well but it must be said was lucky to have the player move ill-advisedly behind him to attempt the tackle instead of in front of him.
I was watching the match with an Irish friend and when the conversion was unsuccessful, he was noticeably upset and had the gnawing thought at the back of his head that the miss would come back to haunt Ireland. I laughed at his pessimism and said with an extra man, this match was Ireland´s to lose. And so it proved.
Now I can understand the thinking behind Kidney to bring O´Gara on. He´s your man well accustomed to closing out games and with a better kicking game. Hindsight is an annoying thing but I really do think it turned out to be the wrong move. O´Gara´s kick offs weren´t great. After the North try where some rather weak tackling and some powerful running got Wales within 1, you could understand the move to go deep. Unfortunately, Wales looked full of running. One man down tends to bring a team together and often you work harder because of your man disadvantage. Maybe the training in freezers in Poland did some good or maybe because the team behind seems more attacking minded. Whatever the reason, Ireland looked out on their feet and Wales were able to make easy yards from the kick off. Then the man who came back on the field was tipped up and the tackler was given a yellow. A penalty, maybe, but personally I think it was a very hard call. I haven´t had another look at it but my initial impression it was a tough call. I hate to think aggressive tackling is forsaken for making sure a player is not tipped up. Certainly it had nothing to do with the Bradley Davies tackle.
Anyway, Halfpenny made no mistake and O´Gara kicks too deep not allowing his forwards a chance to contest for the ball and it was all too easy for Wales to clear the ball. Is that harsh on O´Gara? OK, he had hardly been in the game but when your team has to get the ball, as an international flyhalf you have to get that ball up high and shallow to give your team a chance.
So heartbreak for Ireland and reward for Wales for never giving up hope even when they were a man down. This was a game where the two sides battled throughout the game for ascendancy. Wouldn´t it be great if we saw the same with Ireland against France next match or Scotland giving Wales a run for their money. A win for Ireland and Scotland would be great for the tournament although no doubt the Welsh and French would disagree. But a few teams on joint points at the top is much better in my opinion than one team clear out in front and a jostling for points in the middle of the table. Here´s hoping we can have four teams at least competing for top position, which would breathe new life into the tournament. We saw how Ireland´s win against Australia turned the RWC on its head. I think it´d be great for this year´s 6N to have a similar result that saw at least 4 teams playing good rugby and for the results to be not so one-sided.
So well done to Wales and Ireland for giving us a fantastic match. I laugh at how even the Irish supporters stop talking for the kicks in the bar. I wouldn´t put too much stock in the booing for the last match. It was more an outpouring of emotion to a game that was cruelly taken away from them. Bring on the next round and here´s hoping we can see something similar again. Bravo!
kiakahaaotearoa- Posts : 8287
Join date : 2011-05-11
Location : Madrid
Re: That´s more like it!!
"game that was cruelly taken away from them".
How many times have Ireland cruelly taken the match away from Wales with another metronomic dropgoal? Also there is the Stephen Jones pen from halfway in 2009 that really should have been taken by Henson.
How many times have Ireland cruelly taken the match away from Wales with another metronomic dropgoal? Also there is the Stephen Jones pen from halfway in 2009 that really should have been taken by Henson.
gnollbeast- Posts : 153
Join date : 2012-02-02
Re: That´s more like it!!
Well of course it´s subjective. From the other side of the coin, Wales valiantly wrestled the lead away from Ireland.
The match last year ended in controversy as well I seem to recall. It´s a nice rivalry that´s starting to build between these two sides and some very good rugby to match that rivalry.
The match last year ended in controversy as well I seem to recall. It´s a nice rivalry that´s starting to build between these two sides and some very good rugby to match that rivalry.
kiakahaaotearoa- Posts : 8287
Join date : 2011-05-11
Location : Madrid
Re: That´s more like it!!
gnollbeast wrote:"game that was cruelly taken away from them".
How many times have Ireland cruelly taken the match away from Wales with another metronomic dropgoal? Also there is the Stephen Jones pen from halfway in 2009 that really should have been taken by Henson.
Not as cruel as Wales cheating them out the last one, and it was Wales that took the slam decider off themselves.
Its a great fixture in the calender now that has produced soem really tight games. Its a pity that the last two have been decided by controversial decisions, even if in this case the better side did get a victory they maybe deserved.
The 6 nations is great because so many games are closely fought between rivals who have their ups and downs, and some of teose rivalries are deeply felt. The standard of rugby isnt always that great, but its still exciteing to follow. All the signs this weekend pointed to and Ireland win, now the championship and final placings are up for grabs.
BB I agree with you that someoen turning over France really will blow things wide open. Its increasingly hard to see past them as champions, but they can be beaten. A win, or at least a tight game, isnt beyond Scotland. Italy showed last year they can beat ill organised sides at home taking France and making Ireland and Wales struggle, England cant just assume victory as we have in previous years.
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler- Posts : 10344
Join date : 2011-06-02
Location : Englandshire
Re: That´s more like it!!
Kia - That's some match write up! Are you a sports journalist? It's interesting to get a SH perspective on the 6 nations.
Impossible Standards- Posts : 538
Join date : 2011-05-04
Re: That´s more like it!!
Impossible Standards wrote:Kia - That's some match write up! Are you a sports journalist? It's interesting to get a SH perspective on the 6 nations.
Of course he's not a sports journalist- that was well informed and well-written!
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-24
Age : 35
Location : London, UK
Re: That´s more like it!!
ChequeredJersey wrote:Impossible Standards wrote:Kia - That's some match write up! Are you a sports journalist? It's interesting to get a SH perspective on the 6 nations.
Of course he's not a sports journalist- that was well informed and well-written!
Lack of sub editors on here.
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler- Posts : 10344
Join date : 2011-06-02
Location : Englandshire
Re: That´s more like it!!
In case anyone takes my comment too seriously, I was joking, there are some very well written sports journalism pieces but the quality overall is rather variable. :covers back:
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-24
Age : 35
Location : London, UK
Re: That´s more like it!!
game that was cruelly taken away from them
Hardly say it was cruel. Ireland had 3 players all of which failed to make any sort of half decent tackle on North, had Bowe gone low rather than trying to give North a cuddle then the supporting players could have shoved him into touch. The Irish defence let themselves down which is odd considering how ferocious the defensive lines are at the provinces.
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 21339
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 38
Location : Leicestershire
Re: That´s more like it!!
I would say that another thing that set that game apart from the usual 6 Nations type game was that it was full of great skill. Running, tackling and offloading were all abundant. Nice to see skill winning rather than errors
mckay1402- Posts : 2512
Join date : 2011-04-27
Age : 47
Location : Market Harborough
Re: That´s more like it!!
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:ChequeredJersey wrote:Impossible Standards wrote:Kia - That's some match write up! Are you a sports journalist? It's interesting to get a SH perspective on the 6 nations.
Of course he's not a sports journalist- that was well informed and well-written!
Lack of sub editors on here.
Oop, bit of handbags!
bluestonevedder- Posts : 3952
Join date : 2011-08-23
Re: That´s more like it!!
Haha not a sports journo. Just a Kiwi who loves his rugby. And someone who was impressed by what was on offer yesterday. Both teams can play better rugby than that but just goes to show that both put pressure on the other at different times and it was a great see-saw battle with neither side capitulating. That´s good to see because one side was not allowed to dominate and the match could´ve gone either way.
More of the same please with some enticing challenges next round: Wales vs Scotland, Ireland vs France (match of the weekend?) and England vs Italy (can Italy compete this year as they´re at home?).
More of the same please with some enticing challenges next round: Wales vs Scotland, Ireland vs France (match of the weekend?) and England vs Italy (can Italy compete this year as they´re at home?).
kiakahaaotearoa- Posts : 8287
Join date : 2011-05-11
Location : Madrid
Re: That´s more like it!!
Have to say that as a neutral, I found it a really entertaining game and thought Wales probably deserved the win for their greater ambition ball in hand. Ireland kicked away a bit too much possession, and how Rob Kearney doesn't get penalised for running into the opposing full back miles away from the ball I don't know.
Thought Ryan Jones had a stormer compared with any number of anonymous performances for Wales over the last few seasons, and JD2 probably had his best Wales performance, exploiting a lack of size and power in the Irish midfield (McFadden showed some nice touches ball in hand, but looked underpowered in defence).
For Ireland, POC was his usual immense self, and Best and Heaslip showed prominently, but their backline, devoid of its superstar, was less incisive than they'd have wanted - when chasing and collecting garryowens is your most effective weapon, you are having a poor day.
A couple of moments of contreversy as well - Bradley Davies (who up to that point had played really well) should have been red carded for his dumping of Ryan, and then the Ferris penalty and yellow to allow the winning penalty (I think was right to the Law as currently applied, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a harsh call).
Thought Ryan Jones had a stormer compared with any number of anonymous performances for Wales over the last few seasons, and JD2 probably had his best Wales performance, exploiting a lack of size and power in the Irish midfield (McFadden showed some nice touches ball in hand, but looked underpowered in defence).
For Ireland, POC was his usual immense self, and Best and Heaslip showed prominently, but their backline, devoid of its superstar, was less incisive than they'd have wanted - when chasing and collecting garryowens is your most effective weapon, you are having a poor day.
A couple of moments of contreversy as well - Bradley Davies (who up to that point had played really well) should have been red carded for his dumping of Ryan, and then the Ferris penalty and yellow to allow the winning penalty (I think was right to the Law as currently applied, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a harsh call).
dummy_half- Posts : 6497
Join date : 2011-03-11
Age : 52
Location : East Hertfordshire
Re: That´s more like it!!
Just a Kiwi who loves his rugby.
Just about a tautology there. But that's the guts of the answer.
Just about a tautology there. But that's the guts of the answer.
nganboy- Posts : 1868
Join date : 2011-05-11
Age : 55
Location : New Zealand
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