France - Ireland one win in 40 years....

First topic message reminder :

Regardless as to whether we had beaten Wales off the park last week it is a fact that our record against France is as bad as our record against SH nations. Our win ratio is terrible and we have beaten them only 9 times in the last 40 years. We have only won twice in Paris back in 72 and lately in 2000 when BOD scored the hattrick (against what was arguably one of the weakest French teams put out).

So if Ireland win next weekend in Paris it will be a major victory for us. The French when they play Ireland enjoy the occassion completely as they never expect to lose (regardless of how their clubs are doing in the HC).

So who expects us to do well or are we on a hiding to nothing? What if we go there and win, does that vindicate Kidney as coach or as has been said with games like Australia it was the players wot won it not the coach....

With all the wailing and gnashing of teeth and the usual suspects (specifically Leinster supporters) blinded by there own infallibility (in other words our players who are doing so well in the HC - against mediocre opponents - cant play that badly due to their own inadequacies so therefore it is down to the coach) moaning about Kidney....what is the expectation next weekend.

How you could say Heaslip had a lousy game and stood on the wings, and didn't have a good work-rate is beyond me. You sure you know which player Heaslip is?

The game isn't about individuals and if Ireland click as they did against Australia recently then this remains a winnable match. France IMO are certainly not the team people are assuming them to be. Ireland need some controlled aggression in this game and IMO Sexton holds the key to where Ireland want to play. The french out half is a liability for me so that's a starting point. Dussatoir is absolutely amazing so strong and dynamic defending will be required. I also think Rougerie is well passed his best so lets not have him on too much of a pedestal whilst respecting his strengths. France remain a penalty machine so Ireland need to disrupt but not lose their discipline at the same time. C'mon you boys in green I haven't seen BELIEVE written since the weekend, it's just one game and this is the 6 nations.

Stand, there is no reason why Ireland cant win on Saturday evening. I have a good feeling about it. That said, i am really starting to get concerned with the general direct of the coaching as well. Love Deccie and have been one of his strongest supporters but am starting to get the feeling that he is not up to it anymore.

I hope its going to be an entertaining match, but the French look too good. Now that Mad Marc has gone so has one of their main weaknesses, the players are arguably some of the best in Europe in terms of individual form.

Their Bench alone is pretty damn good, for Ireland to win they would have to play a controlling game dominating the set piece and being ferocious at the breakdown for 80mins. A bit like if they were playing England at Home

Rory_Gallagher wrote:How you could say Heaslip had a lousy game and stood on the wings, and didn't have a good work-rate is beyond me. You sure you know which player Heaslip is?

He didn't stand on the wings / centres on Sunday, but he normally does. He knew this wouldnt work. So he tried to do what he should be doing as a number 8. And didn't do it particularly effectively. O'Brien for instance put in nearly twice as many tackles and ran more metres.

In my opinion, Healsip is one of the most overrated players in Britain and Ireland./ Perhaps Europe. He scores tries and gets noticed but doesn't do much groundwork.
(Don't have a strop - it's just an opinion)

RubyGuby wrote:The game isn't about individuals and if Ireland click as they did against Australia recently then this remains a winnable match. France IMO are certainly not the team people are assuming them to be. Ireland need some controlled aggression in this game and IMO Sexton holds the key to where Ireland want to play. The french out half is a liability for me so that's a starting point. Dussatoir is absolutely amazing so strong and dynamic defending will be required. I also think Rougerie is well passed his best so lets not have him on too much of a pedestal whilst respecting his strengths. France remain a penalty machine so Ireland need to disrupt but not lose their discipline at the same time. C'mon you boys in green I haven't seen BELIEVE written since the weekend, it's just one game and this is the 6 nations.

Good man ruby!

Keep the faith stand. I'm not saying Kidney is the man to take us forward but I firmly believe that there will be good days for us in this 6N, hopefully starting on Saturday .

Rory, dont react to him, its easier

Just for you Ruby BELEVE

Cheers Billy but you left the bloody I out

Its the Hiberno-Dutch version of the word.

Glas a du wrote:Its the Hiberno-Dutch version of the word.

Dat bestaat helemaal niet, tis een Gibbo word

After the game on Sunday Gibbson was seen running round Amsterdam shouting BELLEND not BELIEVE - I think it was a reference to Declan - I think he's calmed down a little bit now as he gets ready for the french roller coaster

RubyGuby wrote:After the game on Sunday Gibbson was seen running round Amsterdam shouting BELLEND not BELIEVE - I think it was a reference to Declan - I think he's calmed down a little bit now as he gets ready for the french roller coaster

RubyGuby wrote:After the game on Sunday Gibbson was seen running round Amsterdam shouting BELLEND not BELIEVE - I think it was a reference to Declan - I think he's calmed down a little bit now as he gets ready for the french roller coaster

You have no idea..... The Dam was shocked

Get him back on the medication and he'll be fine - Just keep him away from that Advocaat and tell him to stop watching Van Der Valk - I know the tunes nice but it will get you in the end - oh and while we're at it, no mayonaisse on the chips lads, what's all that about BELIFFY

Van der Valk? Never heard of that Ruby... I know the Hotel chain though

Coco's Saturday night Gibbo?

RubyGuby wrote:- oh and while we're at it, no mayonaisse on the chips lads, what's all that about

... that like crime in a multi-storey car park - wrong on so many different levels.

The Great Aukster wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:- oh and while we're at it, no mayonaisse on the chips lads, what's all that about

... that like crime in a multi-storey car park - wrong on so many different levels.

Patat met Mayo.. Thats really nice. I honestly thought it was stomache churning when i first saw it but its really nice when you try it

[quote="eirebilly"]Van der Valk? Never heard of that Ruby... I know the Hotel chain though

Coco's Saturday night Gibbo?[/quote]

Big time Billy. Im there man. I'll be the one with the advocaat, a joint, and a DOWN With Deccie tee-shirt on.

BTW, Van Der Valk was a famous Dutch detective series. In English. It was class.

Just heard a typical example of what is wrong with Irish rugby. The irish commentator for the Leinster match just said we shouldn't be worrying about the result against France, just as long as we get a good performance. What a joke.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Just heard a typical example of what is wrong with Irish rugby. The irish commentator for the Leinster match just said we shouldn't be worrying about the result against France, just as long as we get a good performance. What a joke.

Id be less down - if that happened. We havent won there in ions. We wont win now. But. If we take them to the edge, in a positive, attacking way, defend well, and lose by a score... Id be happy enough (in a weird way), to be honest. I'm a realist.

A good performance building into what? The summer tour- when we will once again be away from home against a better side?

Certainly a good performance and a defeat means one thing; our Six Nations is over. Which, given the players at our disposal, has to be viewed as unacceptable. Performance is meaningless against France if it doesn't lead to a result; I would rather play badly and win than play well and lose.

We need 4 wins on the bounce to have any chance of winning the Championship- "so long as we get a good performance" indeed. Holy feck.

Notch wrote:A good performance building into what? The summer tour- when we will once again be away from home against a better side?

Certainly a good performance and a defeat means one thing; our Six Nations is over. Which, given the players at our disposal, has to be viewed as unacceptable. Performance is meaningless against France if it doesn't lead to a result; I would rather play badly and win than play well and lose.

We need 4 wins on the bounce to have any chance of winning the Championship- "so long as we get a good performance" indeed. Holy feck.

+10.

Ultimately I fear a 'decent performance' will be enough to save Kidney's job.

At least I enjoyed tonight. That's what a system that works looks like. It doesn't matter who plays it, the system functions at least adequately... and continues to represent the version of rugby Leinster are known for.

But in the Ireland context (which is admittedly more difficult for the coaches involved - I don't doubt that for a moment), but in Ireland's context, it seems no matter what player turns up, the system shudders and creaks and you're left with your heart in your mouth because you don't really believe the players know what the system is.

Even in the past, you always had something of a rhythm - slow cold start, bone crunching and uncompromising ending. Even if it turned out as another loss, a familiar pattern of sorts existed to give you hope. I can't see anything consistent in Ireland's play that gives me any notion how they'll start or how they'll finish.

I think Ireland will take this one,
France only looked dangerous on turnover against Italy,
one thing Ireland do well is ruck and retain the ball without being stripped or spilling it.
France will have to work hard for any possession this will cause frustration and discipline issues,
Ireland will take this by around 5-10 points i reckon.

SecretFly wrote:At least I enjoyed tonight. That's what a system that works looks like. It doesn't matter who plays it, the system functions at least adequately... and continues to represent the version of rugby Leinster are known for.

But in the Ireland context (which is admittedly more difficult for the coaches involved - I don't doubt that for a moment), but in Ireland's context, it seems no matter what player turns up, the system shudders and creaks and you're left with your heart in your mouth because you don't really believe the players know what the system is.

Even in the past, you always had something of a rhythm - slow cold start, bone crunching and uncompromising ending. Even if it turned out as another loss, a familiar pattern of sorts existed to give you hope. I can't see anything consistent in Ireland's play that gives me any notion how they'll start or how they'll finish.

Its the Leinster Way. So like AJAX. Really. One system and they all slot in and out of the team with ease. You could see it tonight, once Isa fired them up in the 2nd-half. They gelled. So many of these players are still kids. Puurrfek.

Yeah lads great one for the leinster way tonight lead from the front by those fine leinster lads Strauss and er Nacewa... against a treviso team with like all their internationals...

DOD wrote:Yeah lads great one for the leinster way tonight lead from the front by those fine leinster lads Strauss and er Nacewa...

Thanks DOD Glad you enjoyed it. I saw a lot of ants chasing around the field causing mischief and getting into Treviso's sandwiches... not just two. But those two - glad you spotted them. Keep an eye on them, they have promising futures I'm told.

DOD wrote:Yeah lads great one for the leinster way tonight lead from the front by those fine leinster lads Strauss and er Nacewa... against a treviso team with like all their internationals...

Ohh, DOD's jealousy-slip is showing. Bless.

We were excellent. Destroyed them in the end. Our kids that is. They gelled. Madigan. You are right there. Macken is kicking in. Carr too. Man. Fitz, Conway and Ryan to come back. I feel bad now somehow. Sorry man.

Its tough at the Top.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-07_2DWfEmQ

I will agree Madigan was excellent...I told you earlier in the year he is going to be Ireland Outhalf by next year...he is a gem.

Yep, i also see Madigan pushing Sexton for the 10 spot within the next 2 or 3 years.

Well given the way people are looking for an attacking gameplan then Madigan over Sexton everyday...

You say 2/3 years...who is being conservative now? By the end of this year he should be pushing Sexton in Leinster if he continues to play as he does. Now there's an outhalf with speed, an attacking threat and sublime passing

I am being a little conservative i agree. I was kind of hoping that he would be the understudy to Sexton this 6N or next. I just think that it will take him a couple of years to build up the experience to really push Sexton...

Madigan's kicking is that great.

However I do agree he has the potential in a way I jsut don't see with Keatley.

I think Ian Humphreys is a far better player than Keatley to be honest. To be fair to Keatley though he isn't getting as much gametime this season.

Madigan looks really classy so it would be good to fast track him into the Irish set up.

As i said earlier, i was hoping to see either Madigan or Keatley involved in this years 6N. I hope that either/ or both of them will be involved in the tour later this year.

I agree - I would like to see Hagan, Cave, Madigan, O'Mahoney on tour.

Players who could have the potential to do invaluable jobs is positions we need strengthening.

Even if the other 26/27 were more obvious this would be a small step to introduce new players to the International set up.

One things for sure if:

Buckley goes but Hagan doesn't
Wallace goes but Madigan doesn't
D'Arcy goes but Cave doesn't
Leamy or Jennings go but O'Mahoney doesn't

I give up

If Madigan was going to be sitting on the bench in Leinster for another season or two I would be happy to swap him with Keatley....

DOD wrote:If Madigan was going to be sitting on the bench in Leinster for another season or two I would be happy to swap him with Keatley....

Thats the key there. Madigan needs to get some game time.... Maybe send him off to Connaught?

Send Sexton to Munster?
They're the best of buddies now, him and O'Gara. They could continue their epic see-saw battle at Provincial level It'd certainly make the papers a lot of money covering it.

wrong thread

SecretFly wrote:Send Sexton to Munster?
They're the best of buddies now, him and O'Gara. They could continue their epic see-saw battle at Provincial level It'd certainly make the papers a lot of money covering it.

Sexton to Munster That would kill Gibbo

Seeing as this thread has gone back into serious mode (Sexton to Munster ...) just thought I would let the youngsters in here listen to the Vander valk theme - it was great
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV8t3jA-krc&feature=related

I said this before but I will say it again - one positive to think about when Kidney leaves, is that we have plenty of young backs who thrive on running rugby, similar to the SH or French style of playing. There was a lot of talent in that Leinster team last night. Then you have players like Hanrahan, Marshall, Zebo, Gilroy, Spence etc also. The future looks good!

The future looks good thats for sure. I like the look of Hanrahan...

Me too. So far I think I prefer him to Marshall infact, but they are both very similar players. I think Marshall has had a pretty bad year due to being injured, as has Spence. I see them both bouncing back soon, they have plenty of time on their hands. Here is an example of a ridiculous young potential back-line for the future:

9) McGrath (I have heard he is the next big thing)
10) Madigan
11) Gilroy
12) Hanrahan
13) Spence
14) Zebo
15) Kearney Jr.

I would have thought that Hanrahan would have been better at 13 myself but sure if thats not a bright future

Rory_Gallagher wrote:potential back-line for the future:

9) McGrath (I have heard he is the next big thing)
10) Madigan
11) Gilroy
12) Hanrahan
13) Spence
14) Zebo
15) Kearney Jr.

the time is now

Has he ever played 13? He plays 12 or 10, anytime I have seen him.

Out of interest when was the last time Ireland lost back to back games in the 6N?..............

I'm not sure, but I may have an answer next year?