France - Ireland one win in 40 years....

First topic message reminder :

Regardless as to whether we had beaten Wales off the park last week it is a fact that our record against France is as bad as our record against SH nations. Our win ratio is terrible and we have beaten them only 9 times in the last 40 years. We have only won twice in Paris back in 72 and lately in 2000 when BOD scored the hattrick (against what was arguably one of the weakest French teams put out).

So if Ireland win next weekend in Paris it will be a major victory for us. The French when they play Ireland enjoy the occassion completely as they never expect to lose (regardless of how their clubs are doing in the HC).

So who expects us to do well or are we on a hiding to nothing? What if we go there and win, does that vindicate Kidney as coach or as has been said with games like Australia it was the players wot won it not the coach....

With all the wailing and gnashing of teeth and the usual suspects (specifically Leinster supporters) blinded by there own infallibility (in other words our players who are doing so well in the HC - against mediocre opponents - cant play that badly due to their own inadequacies so therefore it is down to the coach) moaning about Kidney....what is the expectation next weekend.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I'm not sure, but I may have an answer next year?

.....believe Rory, believe!

roddersm wrote:Out of interest when was the last time Ireland lost back to back games in the 6N?..............

2008. To Wales and then England in the last two games.

Picking D'Arcy has to be an affront though, doesn't it?

MBTGOG wrote:

roddersm wrote:Out of interest when was the last time Ireland lost back to back games in the 6N?..............

2008. To Wales and then England in the last two games.

oh yeah feck that sucked...I wouldn't want that to happen again....

can madigan "manage" a backline and a game like ROg???????

He is a decent prospect with pace and great hands livewire but he still has some way to go to displace Sexton in the blue jersey

Nothing wrong with Sextons game management in for leinster nor his attacking play for that matter. i love the perception that our only real cutting edge comes from nacewa.

anyway roll on saturday. a freezing night in Paris. maybe we can bring back the claw to bite a few fellas

The clock is ticking........................tick.tock...............................hear it everyone?

God, I'll be down if we lose badly............. mightn't even show up the following week (Thank God for small mercies smiles DOD )

im not a sorrow drowner, if we get beaten out the gate il be off home with my tail between my legs and a burger king in my hands for a nice comfort eat

Dave put the burger king on ice and I'll see you next week fly! I have a good feeling on this one!

I'm predicting France by 12 - 20 points.

The French miodfield will have a field day with Earls' lack of defence.

Chunky Norwich wrote:I'm predicting France by 12 - 20 points.

The French miodfield will have a field day with Earls' lack of defence.

To be honest Chunky I'm not sure that defence is your strong point, have you worked out what a legitimate tackle is yet?

roddersm wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:I'm predicting France by 12 - 20 points.

The French miodfield will have a field day with Earls' lack of defence.

To be honest Chunky I'm not sure that defence is your strong point, have you worked out what a legitimate tackle is yet?

Aaah another personal attack instead of discussing rugby. Awesome.

Chunky Norwich wrote:
The French miodfield will have a field day with Earls' lack of defence.

Poor lad, I suppose he'll have to try doing that other stuff then ... like attacking. Exquisite defending all day still doesn't win a game. You have to try to score more than them. Will they score? I think it's a definite. Will we score more by the end of the game? That's the million dollar question.

SecretFly wrote: Exquisite defending all day still doesn't win a game.

I think it does y'know.

Defences win games.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

SecretFly wrote: Exquisite defending all day still doesn't win a game.

I think it does y'know.

Defences win games.

It's a nice soundbite but in reference to truth, no, it's wrong. Defenders stop scores being scored by the opposition. Attackers try to win games. Winning is the scoreboard at the end and to have something meaningful up there means you have to be down at the other end doing it.
In the game against Wales, we did most of the defending. The attacking side eventually won. Wales attacked all day and got 3 tries. Ireland attacked with intent twice and got 2. Attack wins games if you keep it going for long enough...and you have a good defence to....defend the scores you collect.

I see chunky is back to his bating best again. I am telling you he is a master bat r.

I actually prefer Earls to McFadden at 13 although I dont think it is either players best position.

The only thing that wins you games is scoring more points than you concede meaning both attack and defence are very important. If you defend like Ireland did on the weekend, you need more than just Kearney in your back line with a bit of creativity.

DOD wrote:I see chunky is back to his bating best again. I am telling you he is a master bat r.

Which bit in particular do you see as "bait" ?

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

SecretFly wrote: Exquisite defending all day still doesn't win a game.

I think it does y'know.

Defences win games.

It's a nice soundbite but in reference to truth, no, it's wrong. Defenders stop scores being scored by the opposition. Attackers try to win games. Winning is the scoreboard at the end and to have something meaningful up there means you have to be down at the other end doing it.
In the game against Wales, we did most of the defending. The attacking side eventually won. Wales attacked all day and got 3 tries. Ireland attacked with intent twice and got 2. Attack wins games if you keep it going for long enough...and you have a good defence to....defend the scores you collect.

You need to have balance. Earls is a good attacker - definitely. But his defensive game can be poor, so it almost negates it. What good is it if he scores 2 tries but lets in 4 due to bad positioning?

It'll be a good test or him and I'm looking forward to see how he fares against Clerc, Rougerie, Fofana and Malzieu. We'll no doubt know more about how his balance of attack and defence is after the game.

I can't help but notice the sad decline of Tommy Bowe this season. He looks short of basic speed and conditioning. Bowe at his best would surely have scored that break away try against Australia in the world cup.
Like Gareth Hale, Bowe is sadly diminished without Pace.

Messymesina wrote:I can't help but notice the sad decline of Tommy Bowe this season. He looks short of basic speed and conditioning. Bowe at his best would surely have scored that break away try against Australia in the world cup.
Like Gareth Hale, Bowe is sadly diminished without Pace.

Disagree. Bowe has never had the most explosive pace or ability to beat defenders. He compensates for this by his ability to pick great lines and timing his coming onto the ball at blistering pace. His defense was uncharacteristacally poor but he still showed his class with his try and assist.

He's clearly short of top form right now but at only just turned 28 he definitely is not in decline.

I actually think Tommy's heart is no longer in Swansea.
The whole Glactico experiment has gone pear shaped and he can't wait to get home.

I would expect him to be on form again next year.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

SecretFly wrote: Exquisite defending all day still doesn't win a game.

I think it does y'know.

Defences win games.

It's a nice soundbite but in reference to truth, no, it's wrong. Defenders stop scores being scored by the opposition. Attackers try to win games. Winning is the scoreboard at the end and to have something meaningful up there means you have to be down at the other end doing it.
In the game against Wales, we did most of the defending. The attacking side eventually won. Wales attacked all day and got 3 tries. Ireland attacked with intent twice and got 2. Attack wins games if you keep it going for long enough...and you have a good defence to....defend the scores you collect.

You need to have balance. Earls is a good attacker - definitely. But his defensive game can be poor, so it almost negates it. What good is it if he scores 2 tries but lets in 4 due to bad positioning?

It'll be a good test or him and I'm looking forward to see how he fares against Clerc, Rougerie, Fofana and Malzieu. We'll no doubt know more about how his balance of attack and defence is after the game.

In order to be in defence mode (and have your probable weaknesses exposed there - we'll say Earls for the sake of the argument)) either the opposition puts you there through turnovers, lineout steals or a solid defensive wall that forces you to try kicking behind them.....or, you do it yourself,ie, you give possession away cheaply by kicking haphazardly in the wrong areas of the field and positively inviting the opposition to attack you (current rough version of Irish 'gameplan').

Defence is needed.
Attack is needed.
In a game of 80 minutes, winning is decided on how much time you devote to both.

Scoring 2 tries is useless yes if you fall back on defensive patterns to protect them. Your defensive weaknesses will be tested as sides do the homework on defensive weaknesses - and every side has them whether they admit to it or not. Nothing is perfect in rugby.

So if the Irish coaches highlight a defensive weakness within their own ranks, and let's say Earls presents one - you should defend against that weakness by not inviting attacking sides to attack. And there in a nutshell is our talk all week amongst the Irish...what's wrong with the Ireland gameplan...and what needs to be put right.

Ireland would be more effective as an attacking side than a defending one right now and, yet, we persist in playing a highly cautious defensive game. Rather than putting all our thoughts into making Earls a better defender to stop France putting the four or five tries on us, better to accept he's better in attack and construct a game around many players who have proven they are also better in attack. The game is 80 minutes - attack for longer and you have to defend what you might gain for less time. You're not rooting out the defensive frailties, you are simply using a positive attacking plan to avoid the frailties for as long as you can in an 80 minute period. Ireland doesn't defend because it is being pressurised into it by the opposition, it happens because the present coaches seem to require it.

Good post SecretFly. But the thing is, you're asking an awful lot. Especially when you say "Ireland would be more effective as an attacking side than a defending one right now ".

You're playing France away. They will have ball. Good ball. You can't expect them not to atack at some point. Therefore, defence will HAVE to be the key toa victory in my opinion.

D'Arcy and Earls could have a very, very long evening ahead of them.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

DOD wrote:I see chunky is back to his bating best again. I am telling you he is a master bat r.

Which bit in particular do you see as "bait" ?

Earth to DOD. Earth to DOD.

Please back up your accusation. cheers.

Chunky Norwich wrote:D'Arcy and Earls could have a very, very long evening ahead of them.

I thought they just played 80 min the same as everyone else?....

Chunky, do you not realise you just spout rubbish on these threads that nobody wants to hear? What examples do you have of Earls' bad defence, bar the Tuilagi one and that one video you posted for the lions? Which was what, 2/3 years ago? You try to be controversial but usually come out with useless dribble. Go back to your welsh threads, you are just annoying.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Chunky, do you not realise you just spout rubbish on these threads that nobody wants to hear? What examples do you have of Earls' bad defence, bar the Tuilagi one and that one video you posted for the lions? Which was what, 2/3 years ago? You try to be controversial but usually come out with useless dribble. Go back to your welsh threads, you are just annoying.

I don't know which bit to answer first. Perhaps you could do me a spreadsheet detailing which threads I'm allowed to post on?

Yes I know you've seen this video before but it's soemthing worth highlighting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG12OYiHZRc

chunky.

are you chunky? are you from norwich?

do you like crunching carrots? farming? do you know alan partridge?

Why is it worth highlighting? It was 2/3 years ago and that is your only proof? Name me any player you think has good defence and I will show you an occasion they missed a tackle. This is exactly why nobody wants to hear you. It is similar to what you said about Tuilagi and how he is such a bad person etc etc and then when somebody pointed out anything bad a Welsh player has done, you just ignore that and come up with a rubbish excuse. And it isn't even funny like it is with Sin, you are just irritating..

dublin_dave wrote:chunky.

are you chunky? are you from norwich?

do you like crunching carrots? farming? do you know alan partridge?

Chunky Norwich is a name of a horse in an Alan Partridge sketch.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Why is it worth highlighting?

Because his defence hasn't changed.

Name me any player you think has good defence and I will show you an occasion they missed a tackle.

Richie Mccaw

This is exactly why nobody wants to hear you. It is similar to what you said about Tuilagi and how he is such a bad person etc etc and then when somebody pointed out anything bad a Welsh player has done, you just ignore that and come up with a rubbish excuse. And it isn't even funny like it is with Sin, you are just irritating..

Truth hurts I guess.

HA you picked the easiest example for me to find a video of him missing a tackle, I was watching this last night, THANK YOU:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJZa4ZIyItc

If you want more proof I can send you the stats from the world cup which says how many tackles he made/missed?

Oh and good luck crawling out of that one, even the title says "Sione Lauaki hands off Richie McCaw".

Does that make him a bad tackler? Nope but you asked for an example and I gave it. Same applies for Earls, he has made some massive tackles but you focus on the only proof you have? And you wonder why I say you talk nonsense?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:HA you picked the easiest example for me to find a video of him missing a tackle, I was watching this last night, THANK YOU:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJZa4ZIyItc

If you want more proof I can send you the stats from the world cup which says how many tackles he made/missed?

You know what. I think I've lost this argument. You are right.

Keith Earls' defence is test quality. He'll prove it tomorrow.

I'm sure of it.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Oh and good luck crawling out of that one, even the title says "Sione Lauaki hands off Richie McCaw".

Cracker! Hes got you there chunky.....

He done me good n proper.

Sort of sums up everything else he has had to say also. I can sense his frustration

Chunky Norwich wrote:
You know what. I think I've lost this argument. You are right.

Keith Earls' defence is test quality. He'll prove it tomorrow.

I'm sure of it.

It takes a big man to publically admit he was wrong...even though he does it with an not-so-hidden tongue buried into his cheek! So go easy on Chunky guys. He's made his point and took the punch that came with it.

Yet he has failed to do so on the other thread and just abused all the irish countless times. Only when he has NO way of escaping, does he accept defeat. And he is furious about it.

No really. No tongue in cheek.

Rory has owned me on this thread. I admit it.

Also, his comments there on Earls are complete sarcasm.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Yet he has failed to do so on the other thread and just abused all the irish countless times.

Didn't really though did I Rory?

i cant remeber chunky norwich being a horse in alan partridge?

was it from knowing me knowing you

mystiroakey wrote:i cant remeber chunky norwich being a horse in alan partridge?

was it from knowing me knowing you

The Day Today

oh yep i remeber that show, just!

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Yet he has failed to do so on the other thread and just abused all the irish countless times.

Didn't really though did I Rory?

"While you all laugh at me, the rest of the rugby world laughs at the bitterness of Ireland.

I can live with that."

One example of many, so yes, you really did. You called us sore losers many times.

Is that really abuse though Rory?

That Ireland is bitter, and we are all sore losers? Yet you moaned when rodders said you don't understand what a tackle is, and said he has resorted to personal abuse?

What goes on in your head..