Week in Week out

There are obvious many issues at the moment surrounding regionalism.

What stood out for me, is how the Irish provinces have gone out to incorporate fans into their decision making. In Wales, the regions have generally ignored them basically telling fans how its going to be.

the Irish provinces should be applauded for what they have achieved, regions should be ashamed

The regions...infact why even give them the pleasure of being called 'regions' they are Superclubs and nothing else...have failed

Roger Lewis was his usual plastic 'clearly doing the best for myself' as expected. Someone needs to teach that man how to conduct an interview

The show didnt tell us anything we already didnt know though...most of Wales is disenfranchised

Either give is real regions to support or give us nothing at all

Four words.....Newport Gwent Development Dragons

steffan the guy said outright 'show me a viable bus plan for a valley region and well look at it' any anwsers?

GavinDragon wrote:steffan the guy said outright 'show me a viable bus plan for a valley region and well look at it' any anwsers?

Well if a viable plan for a Valleys region is not possible then surley it should be Rogers job to make the current setup marketable for the rugby fans of the Valleys rather than just allow the Newport Gwent Dragons and Cardiff Blues to carry on as upgraded versions of the old Cardiff RFC and Newport RFC?

reading into that programme i dont think the dragons will be continuing as they have, development region here we come,

and totally agree with you id advocate games being played at sardis road, pandy park and eugene cross...and not just LV games either big Rabbo Direct Games and poss HC games as well (subject to ground criteria of course)

The provinces are exactly that old established geographical areas that cover all of Ireland our regions are along the Bristol channel.
Was anything new said tonight ? no we all knew this already.

no nothing was actually said but what was hinted at really worried me

GavinDragon wrote:id advocate games being played at sardis road, pandy park and eugene cross...and not just LV games either big Rabbo Direct Games and poss HC games as well (subject to ground criteria of course)

Totally agree with that. The WRU would be better off investing a few quid so the grounds you have mentioned could upgrade their facilities rather than someone like the Pieman spend 750K a year on a stadium that they wont even be using this Friday

GavinDragon wrote:reading into that programme i dont think the dragons will be continuing as they have, development region here we come

No offense but you have kinda been like that already as no real stars have been at the Dragons and most of the best players have moved on to bigger clubs

we were beginning to build around our talent brought through faletau and lydiate were resigned (tovey is leaving tbf but w have steffan jones coming through) but your right we werent a "successful" region in recent years but not two seasons ago we finished above the scarlets and we didnt need to be bailed out by WRU for overspending,

besides the point though, just as with the semi pro teams attendances if wru funding is cut the fans wont go.....not that i expect you to be sympathetic with that as the same thing happened to you with the warriors disbanding

GavinDragon wrote:we were beginning to build around our talent brought through faletau and lydiate were resigned (tovey is leaving tbf but w have steffan jones coming through) but your right we werent a "successful" region in recent years but not two seasons ago we finished above the scarlets and we didnt need to be bailed out by WRU for overspending,

besides the point though, just as with the semi pro teams attendances if wru funding is cut the fans wont go.....not that i expect you to be sympathetic with that as the same thing happened to you with the warriors disbanding

If im honest I was expecting the Scarlets to be the second causality of the current setup between the fact they were skint a few years back and surely the WRU must have been sick of bailing them out

Then all of a sudden they get given a brand new stadium and they are away again

What that prgrmmed showed was that the situation is as bad as i hoped it wouldnt be, but all the rugby fans knew this, but have been routinely ignored by the regions and the WRU.

The Ospreys have made concerted efforts in becoming a true region, with investment in Bridgend and being the only regions to currently play games at other grounds. However most fans, myself included, hate the liberty stadium and want the coaching setup changed as they continue to serve up utter dross on a weekly basis

Yeah I must admit having listened to what was said and reading between the lines it wouldn't surprise me if there was an announcement saying the Dragons are to become a development Region.

But if that happened then surely they would have to become totally WRU owned, if I was an investor looking to invest and new from the off that I was being treated differently or expected to lose all my best players once we had trained them to top level I wouldn't put money anywhere near it.

Just one side issue I still think that you can support your local semi pro team AND your Region, you don't have to decide between one or the other, yes some kick off times may make it difficult to attend both but very few Regional games are now played at 2.30 3 O' Clock.

If the Dragons do become a 'development side' then as Welsh men you will have to hold a revolution. The programme compared the regions to the Irish provinces and pointed towards our success. If you want to copy our success then down grading the Dragons is not an option.

As the WRU think about downgrading the Dragons in Ireland the IRFU is attempting to build Connaguht into a proper Irish rugby province. They have had stadium upgrades, training facility upgrade and there academy invested into. Connaguht are even starting to get decent crowds.

The WRU and regions really need to work hard to get everyone pulling in the same direction. In Ireland all our clubs and provinces work towards the national team and the in thanks the IRFU give so much back in return.
In Wales you have a system that was forced upon the public with no historical value in a manner that could only be compared to assault. In a country were tribal rivalries can be compared to the Gaza strip you through all the great history of the clubs in the bin.

You need to appease the fans, club and Valley, and begin to listen to what they want, such as the Blues back to the Arms Park. Wales loves rugby fact. The fans are there. Appease the fans and copy the Irish model when it comes to the provinces. Ulster for one have a great relationship with all their feeder clubs.

Closing down, or downgrading teams, while not appeasing the fans will do nothing for Wales, if you want evidence look at Scotland. If not enjoy following Scotland "into the dust bin of history" as one famous revolutionary once said.

JayMaster3000 wrote:You need to appease the fans, club and Valley, and begin to listen to what they want, such as the Blues back to the Arms Park. Wales loves rugby fact. The fans are there. Appease the fans and copy the Irish model when it comes to the provinces. Ulster for one have a great relationship with all their feeder clubs.

Closing down, or downgrading teams, while not appeasing the fans will do nothing for Wales, if you want evidence look at Scotland. If not enjoy following Scotland "into the dust bin of history" as one famous revolutionary once said.

Totally agree. But the WRU and the money men have continually ignored fans. This is why we've reached the stage we have. Cardiff Blues have tried telling the fans, but they have stayed away from the CCS. They've back tracked to play one game, they wont admit it was a wronf decision to leave the CAP in the first place

JayMaster -

For years the WRU business models have been 'oh that seems to work in XYZ, lets copy that'!

If the Dragons or any team are downgraded then you can kiss rugby good bye in that area

Personally what I think the makes teh Provinces run better, than the regions/super clubs. is the Province runs the rugby in that Province. Ie Ulster rugbyy runs Ulster team and all the clubs in Ulster, Ulster Rugby isn't owned or controlled by a club or number of clubs. Its an organisial body not tied to a club.

The problem with the regions, is that they are run by a superclub, an dhence puts off supporters.

If for example the Blues region, wasn't run by Cardiff RFC, but instead all the clubs in the region got together and elected a board to run all th erugby in the region, they things may work all better for all the clubs in the Blues region.

The board get granted all the funds granted by the WRU, and clubs, conciles an ddecide how to redistribt them. IE how much the region team gets, how much the Welsh prem clubs get, 2nd div, 3rd div etc etc. and so on. Because in my opionion a region run by a super club will only truely look after the one club.

IE if Munster were owned by Shannon rugby, and decided to change to blue and call themselves Shannon they would struglle for 3000 fans instead of 18000 a week. Also thy would be a lot of upset if Shannon ran all the rugby in Munster, its a crazy idea, so why is Wales trying it?

Because there were no regions/provinces in the first place. Some clubs in Wales have always had more money and sway onver the WRU. So when we went to regionalism, Cardiff and Llanelli fought for and got stand alone status.

BridgendBoyo wrote:Because there were no regions/provinces in the first place. Some clubs in Wales have always had more money and sway onver the WRU. So when we went to regionalism, Cardiff and Llanelli fought for and got stand alone status.

DO we really have to keep going over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over with this moan moan moan moan moan???

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

BridgendBoyo wrote:Because there were no regions/provinces in the first place. Some clubs in Wales have always had more money and sway onver the WRU. So when we went to regionalism, Cardiff and Llanelli fought for and got stand alone status.

DO we really have to keep going over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over with this moan moan moan moan moan???

Just responding to a question that was asked, is that ok with you?

bedfordwelsh wrote:Yeah I must admit having listened to what was said and reading between the lines it wouldn't surprise me if there was an announcement saying the Dragons are to become a development Region.

But if that happened then surely they would have to become totally WRU owned, if I was an investor looking to invest and new from the off that I was being treated differently or expected to lose all my best players once we had trained them to top level I wouldn't put money anywhere near it.

Just one side issue I still think that you can support your local semi pro team AND your Region, you don't have to decide between one or the other, yes some kick off times may make it difficult to attend both but very few Regional games are now played at 2.30 3 O' Clock.

To fully agree with you on all of that. However I don't see how it would be desided who would be the developement region, the Dragons are the lowest in the Rabo, but the Ospreys have the lost vast numbers of stars recently. But the Blues are struggling to get fans through the gate. But the Scarlets have brought through a heap of youngsters recently, like a developement region should. SO why not make them all developement regions?

I really think that making the Dragons a development team would be a step backwards. Their best players always tend to leave the region as it is, Tovey being the latest one.

BridgendBoyo wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

BridgendBoyo wrote:Because there were no regions/provinces in the first place. Some clubs in Wales have always had more money and sway onver the WRU. So when we went to regionalism, Cardiff and Llanelli fought for and got stand alone status.

DO we really have to keep going over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over with this moan moan moan moan moan???

Just responding to a question that was asked, is that ok with you?

Sorry, maybe it was a bit of a bite there. Its just a bit of a scratched record. The selfish folk of Cardiff and Llanelli ruined Welsh rugby. There were other factors involved than out right selfishness. For example the fact that Llanelli RFC were poor and were being asked to merge with Swansea RFC who went bust etc. The simplistic idea of it was selfishness and those 'rich boys' of Welsh rugby bullying the rest of us, is just not fair, and it does grate after what 8 years of hearing it over and over.

No worries. It was a simplistic overview of what happened. We'll just have to agree to disagree on certain details of it

BridgendBoyo wrote:I really think that making the Dragons a development team would be a step backwards. Their best players always tend to leave the region as it is, Tovey being the latest one.

Agreed and it would lead to less interest in the domestic game in my view.
Hope it doesn't happen and a backer comes in to take the 50% from the WRU.

Here's my take on it: fortunes fluctuate. You can have a club or region flying high for a couple of seasons and a few seasons later it can find itself struggling; conversely, a team that's struggled can get on a roll and find itself battling for honours at the end of the season. That's why it would be deeply unfair to take a snapshot of the league table and say: 'that's it, these are the good regions, these are the bad regions, we'll cut the funding to the bad ones." That's going to take away the hopes of those that find themselves at the wrong end of the table of ever moving up it.

It's worth remembering that, early on in the regional era, the Dragons were runners up in the Celtic league. Cutting their funding would prevent them from ever achieving that again.

JayMaster3000 wrote:If the Dragons do become a 'development side' then as Welsh men you will have to hold a revolution. The programme compared the regions to the Irish provinces and pointed towards our success. If you want to copy our success then down grading the Dragons is not an option.

As the WRU think about downgrading the Dragons in Ireland the IRFU is attempting to build Connaguht into a proper Irish rugby province. They have had stadium upgrades, training facility upgrade and there academy invested into. Connaguht are even starting to get decent crowds.

The WRU and regions really need to work hard to get everyone pulling in the same direction. In Ireland all our clubs and provinces work towards the national team and the in thanks the IRFU give so much back in return.
In Wales you have a system that was forced upon the public with no historical value in a manner that could only be compared to assault. In a country were tribal rivalries can be compared to the Gaza strip you through all the great history of the clubs in the bin.

You need to appease the fans, club and Valley, and begin to listen to what they want, such as the Blues back to the Arms Park. Wales loves rugby fact. The fans are there. Appease the fans and copy the Irish model when it comes to the provinces. Ulster for one have a great relationship with all their feeder clubs.

Closing down, or downgrading teams, while not appeasing the fans will do nothing for Wales, if you want evidence look at Scotland. If not enjoy following Scotland "into the dust bin of history" as one famous revolutionary once said.

The WRU listening to what the clubs wanted was what got us into this mess in the first place.

gowales wrote:

The WRU listening to what the clubs wanted was what got us into this mess in the first place.

Was it the WRU listening to what the clubs wanted or did it go something like this;
Welsh rugby needed reforming to at last come to terms with professionalism and the WRU proposed the regional concept.
All of the clubs within the union voted and each had one vote whether they were Cardiff, Llanelli or Aberflyhalf RFC.
Most of the Aberflyhalf clubs voted the same way and as there are so many of them........the rest is history.