Gatland in pole for the Lions...

by Cardiff Taffy Mon 13 Feb 2012, 1:28 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17010462

Actually a little disapointed as we could do without the distraction. I agree he's the obvious choice but hope they would pick Kidney...

by RubyGuby Mon 13 Feb 2012, 2:35 pm

I would prefer a British coach for the Lions - It just doesn't seem right IMO thumbsup

by HERSH Mon 13 Feb 2012, 2:37 pm

Great timing, the English boys have a chance to remind Gatts just what they can do. Very Happy

When will the WRU learn?

by Chjw131 Mon 13 Feb 2012, 2:37 pm

Perhaps Andy Robinson could come in and then tempt Parks out of retirement...

by Guest Mon 13 Feb 2012, 2:48 pm

Graham Henry should coach the Lions

by marty2086 Mon 13 Feb 2012, 2:53 pm

RubyGuby wrote:I would prefer a British coach for the Lions - It just doesn't seem right IMO

I hope you mean British or Irish coach

by mystiroakey Mon 13 Feb 2012, 2:55 pm

not a good idea

by TycroesOsprey Mon 13 Feb 2012, 2:57 pm

IronMike wrote:Graham Henry should coach the Lions

I actually agree with this and was thinking the same when I read the news about Gatland being released by wales for the Lions.

I dont think it would be a good move for Wales or for the Lions. Traditionally the Lions have achieved their best results without a national coach at the helm , Carwyn and MGeechan are the best two coaches the Lions have had and they were not national coaches at the time. SCW had only just left England and was a disaster.

The detrimental effect on the welsh team after the tours in 01,05 and 09 was plain to see espescially in 2001 where Henry lost the welsh dressing room.

Henry as Head coach with Gatland and whoever as assistant is fine with me and I think would work much as it did with Geech, Gatland, Robinson and Kidney should be concentrating on their main job. If Robinson and Kidney manage to keep theirs that long of course.

by RubyGuby Mon 13 Feb 2012, 2:57 pm

marty2086 wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:I would prefer a British or Irish coach for the Lions - It just doesn't seem right IMO

I hope you mean British or Irish coach

by B91212 Mon 13 Feb 2012, 3:51 pm

The Lions is a unique British / Irish concept that somehow manages to survive and prosper in the modern age (and I for one absolutely love it). For me the head coach should be British or Irish and preferably not the current head coach of the 'home nations' due to the bias and conflict this can bring. Hard at the moment as it probably only leaves Geech and I feel it could be one tour too many for him but do other nationals truly understand the traditions of it?

If I was Welsh I wouldn't be happy for my head coach to take a back seat for a prolonged period of time. In fact the only possible advantage of that I can see would be financial from the WRB as someone else would pay his wages (and I'm pretty sure they are not that hard up Wink

).

by HERSH Mon 13 Feb 2012, 3:52 pm

MJ should get it.

by mystiroakey Mon 13 Feb 2012, 3:55 pm

i think MJ should get it. He deserves the honour at some point at the least. Cant have a current home nation coach getting the role, and certainly not a forign one

by SecretFly Mon 13 Feb 2012, 4:08 pm

TycroesOsprey wrote:
Henry as Head coach with Gatland and whoever as assistant is fine with me and I think would work much as it did with Geech, Gatland, Robinson and Kidney should be concentrating on their main job. If Robinson and Kidney manage to keep theirs that long of course.

It's only like yesterday when I recall Gatland being on the edge of the precipice as Welsh people were getting increasingly agitated by the lack of success. Boy, didn't he go and brush up on himself in the interval!

Now Kidney is getting it in the neck from Irish fans (myself included). He'll either reinvent himself like Gatland and effect the revolution that's coming, regardless of who the coach is, or he'll unceremoniously get the boot and leave the revolution to someone else. Either way, yes, from an Irish perspective I think the Irish coach should remain with the Irish side. Much too much work to be done here. If Gatland wanted the job, I wouldn't be one to say 'No!'.

by majesticimperialman Mon 13 Feb 2012, 4:15 pm

Why is Gatland in pole position for the Lions?

He as coached Wales to 2 wins out of 2 games in the 6ns. But so as Stuart Lancaster 2 wins out of 2 games.

So why is it that Gatland get pole position?

I dont under stand the facination with Gatland at all. Maybe some one could explain this to me.

by HERSH Mon 13 Feb 2012, 4:18 pm

MJ for the top Lions job campaign starts here.

Give the guy a chance to redeem himself, he knows what it takes to play and win for the Lions.

I'd be interested to see how he gets on without Andrew and the other England flops behind him

by SecretFly Mon 13 Feb 2012, 4:22 pm

I wouldn't consider it fascination. I'd consider that he has already produced one Slam, has overseen Wales' attack on the WC, that saw them get to the semis, was already on a Lions tour and oversees a game of power, speed and athleticism.

You say 'Why?' - I say 'Why not?' Lancaster could win the Slam this year - he'd still be less experienced than Gatland.

Not fascination - pragmatism.

by Taylorman Mon 13 Feb 2012, 4:42 pm

History repeating?. A NZ coach leading a 1-2 lions loss to the ozzies in 2013 by my reckoning gives Gatland and the ABs a world cup in 2023? thumbsup

by Shifty Mon 13 Feb 2012, 4:43 pm

I'm not so worried about Gatland coaching the Lions, lets be honest it was announced when he signed his last contract that he would be allowed home leave during the Japan tour (during the Lions tour), which was to start after the previous 6 Nations. Basically running from the end of March, start of April, to the start of the following season, end og august, start of September.

What does worry me is the we might lose him for the 6 Nations as well... I really don't see why Wales should lose their head coach in Febuary, for a tour that's happening in June?

Surely the best place for Gatland is in the 6 Nations so he can have a good look at all the players?

I guess it might be an idea to take him away from Wales so the Welsh boys don't get upset if their not picked for the tour, but putting any national coach in the position where he might upset players is plain silly.

Graham Henry told the Welsh lads they were the best in the world and got them to play for him, but when it came down it it, most of them found out from the same coach they weren't good enough to be in his Lions team!

by mystiroakey Mon 13 Feb 2012, 4:58 pm

shouldnt be done- its a conflict of interest. if he picks to many welsh many wont be happy and the media may even get on his back as to why? if he goes the other way and doesnt pick enough he may have abit of resentment in the welsh camp from fans and players.

no need to do this - its just a stupid suggestion.

by bedfordwelsh Tue 14 Feb 2012, 9:13 am

For me the WRU should look at the fall out fron Hemry doing it then ask is it worth it for the risk of it happening again.

I wouldn't be to keen on him doing it myself.

by red_stag Tue 14 Feb 2012, 9:35 am

The logical choice. I will be annoyed is it is anyone other than Gatland.

by RubyGuby Tue 14 Feb 2012, 9:37 am

Still think it should be a British or Irish coach thumbsup

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 14 Feb 2012, 9:39 am

red_stag wrote:The logical choice. I will be annoyed is it is anyone other than Gatland.

Agreed, don't particularly warm to the man, but he is nailed on at this point

by red_stag Tue 14 Feb 2012, 9:57 am

majesticimperialman wrote:Why is Gatland in pole position for the Lions?

He as coached Wales to 2 wins out of 2 games in the 6ns. But so as Stuart Lancaster 2 wins out of 2 games.

So why is it that Gatland get pole position?

I dont under stand the facination with Gatland at all. Maybe some one could explain this to me.

For a number of reasons IMO:

- Past Lions Coaching Experiences in 2009

- Head Coach of the home nation performing best

- Excellent track record as coach with Waikato, Connacht, Ireland, Wasps and Wales

- Along with Lancaster looks to have a clear game plan for his team

- Unlike Lancaster has achieved silverware with one of the home nations

- I feel he is a very proactive coach - the sessions in Poland, the need for fitness, the suggests to fine players who give away cards.

- He is neither an off the wall Lievremont nor a conservative Kidney. Recognises talent and happy to play it but rarely makes change for change sake.

The only negative for me is the fact he always speaks his mind - and I can even make my peace with that. It is an admirable trait in some ways but foolish for a top flight coach.

by RubyGuby Tue 14 Feb 2012, 10:30 am

The only negative for me is the fact he always speaks his mind - and I can even make my peace with that. It is an admirable trait in some ways but foolish for a top flight coach. .
red_stag

He does seem to have curtailed this recently - I was expecting something on the lines of "Ireland are just a bunch of ageing potato picking Gyppos before the game but he seemed pretty low key" - Likewise I was expectign something like "Scotland couldn't score a try if we didn't turn up for the first 20 minutes at the MS" - However, all we got was some restrained comments - Maybe my word with him has not fallen on his big fat cauli ears. thumbsup

by Sin é Tue 14 Feb 2012, 10:41 am

Has a Wales coached Gatland team ever beaten a SH team?

Stag - I think threatening fines is ridiculous. I know the Welsh players are young, but that is treating them like children. If that system was in place in the world cup, Warburton's (his captain) red card would have cost the player an awful lot of money. And then his defence of Warburton and attack on Rolland/decision was a bit two faced.

I used to think Gatland was hard done by when leaving Ireland, but I think the IRFU got it right. Can't see the IRFU giving him their vote from the selection committee.

Eddie O'Sullivan wouldn't be a bad choice . The part of the tour that he looked after when on the one with Woodward apparently went great.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Tue 14 Feb 2012, 10:48 am

Nice wee Gatland story from the NZ Herald

"We had our 83-year-old Dad visiting us from Wales at Waihi Beach," writes a reader. "One morning he was adamant that he had spotted Warren Gatland (Kiwi coaching the Welsh rugby team) walking by. That night he happened to go to the Waihi Beach RSA for dinner and guess who he saw? In the following days Dad was upset to find he had lost his camera case. Last week, he phoned excitedly to say he had received his camera case in the post with a letter from Warren Gatland saying how a shopkeeper in Waihi Beach had found a camera case and since he (Warren) was living in Wales would he mind taking it home and posting it. ... Warren was most happy to once he read the name and address in the camera case and realised he'd met that fella at the RSA!"

(note to non-Kiwis, an RSA is a Returned Services Association club - similar to a British Legion or an Aussie Leagues Club)

by red_stag Tue 14 Feb 2012, 10:54 am

SinE - he didn't threaten fines. He asked the players what they thought of the idea. He said some were ok with it and some weren't. He is apparently working with the players to come up with a deterrent within the squad to giving away needless yellows. I think it is something if Kidney did he would be lauded for it.

by eirebilly Tue 14 Feb 2012, 10:59 am

I can totally understand why Gatland is front runner. He has done some pretty amazing stuff with Wales.

That said, i would like to see MJ get the job but would fear that he would fill the team full of the same type of players he took to the world cup and we would have a situation like we had when SCW loaded the team full of English even after Wales had won a GS and looked the much better team.

by RubyGuby Tue 14 Feb 2012, 11:01 am

The welsh squad looks tight knit and positive and Gatland can take some credit for that - He doesn't endear himself on occasion but you cannot knock the fact that he has a real good bunch of players who seem to look up to him who are playing for him and enjoying their rugby. They seem a very together group so I think people need to back off him a bit. He has to learn as well and maybe he has thumbsup

by Sin é Tue 14 Feb 2012, 11:05 am

red_stag wrote:SinE - he didn't threaten fines. He asked the players what they thought of the idea. He said some were ok with it and some weren't. He is apparently working with the players to come up with a deterrent within the squad to giving away needless yellows. I think it is something if Kidney did he would be lauded for it.

Sorry, I think its poor that players have to be fined so that they realise the consequences of collecting yellow cards. What about the players own personal responsibility to their team (rather than their bank account)?

by SecretFly Tue 14 Feb 2012, 11:32 am

Sin é wrote:
red_stag wrote:SinE - he didn't threaten fines. He asked the players what they thought of the idea. He said some were ok with it and some weren't. He is apparently working with the players to come up with a deterrent within the squad to giving away needless yellows. I think it is something if Kidney did he would be lauded for it.

Sorry, I think its poor that players have to be fined so that they realise the consequences of collecting yellow cards. What about the players own personal responsibility to their team (rather than their bank account)?

One assumes he tried that line...."Don't let your team mates down" - and it didn't obviously work. A high profile...tip-tackle... at the WC is followed by a high profile tip-tackle in the first game of the 6N. If discipline was called for and team loyalty was used as the motivator...it failed.

by red_stag Tue 14 Feb 2012, 11:50 am

He said: "I have asked the players to come back with a suggestion on what we need to do in the future as a deterrent for yellow cards.

"I am not talking about unlucky yellow cards, I consider the yellow card Leigh Halfpenny had against Australia in December to have been a little bit unlucky, so I am not judging that as a stupid yellow card.

"But we have had yellow cards in the past which I think have been a little bit unnecessary.

"So I have asked the players to decide what sort of deterrent we need, as I have held my hands up as a coach and said that whatever I am saying at the moment is not working to a couple of individuals, in terms of me having criticised them publicly in the past and then being criticised myself for doing that.

"I did suggest a fine of £20,000-£30,000 could be relevant, but I don't think they were not too keen on that.

"We need to come up with something relevant and we will come up with something in the next few weeks that the squad are happy with."

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 14 Feb 2012, 11:56 am

Sounded quite tongue in cheek to me?

by bathmad Tue 14 Feb 2012, 12:12 pm

A tenner on Dean Richards making a glorious Lions coaching return.

by TalkGonzo Tue 14 Feb 2012, 12:31 pm

It's likely that should Gatland become head coach for the lions it will have an adverse affect on wales for the 6 nations. However, Gatland is not going to coach Wales forever, and this could open up an opportunity for the next welsh coach to gain some invaluable experience.

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