Pro 12, becoming a serously good league?

First topic message reminder :

Comparing the Pro 12 at its begingings to as it is now, I think that we have possality of having the best League in the world.

Back when it was formed we had the problem of regionalisation, and 2 sides folding. The sides have now bedded in, and two Italian sides have joined.

Munster, Leinster and Ulster are all strong teams, Connacht are improving and I think some teams still underestimate them.

Ospreys are rebuilding but still strong, Blues will need to but should stay competative, Scarlets already have and are looking to be really good in a few years if they carry on the upward curve, Dragons are losing their best players and look to be going backwards.

Glasgow and Edinburgh are now under a new SRU control and are getting better, in playoff spot and Hcup Qfinal, things look better for next year.

Teviso and Aironi are improving, Teviso more so, and are becoming a mid table side and could improve, Aironi have a way to go yet.

With so many teams improving teams have to run to standstill. Of the top 10 teams in Europe more than a third (3 leagues so a 1/3 each would be an even distrubtion) are in the Pro 12.

However some of the same problems still arise that we had at the beginging.

Regions, we could write a book of this.
Distance apart, you get fewer away fans at games outside your domestic country, but this is being largly offsest by the teams growning and attracting more home supporters, I don't believe it's the same problem as it was.
Lack of rivalries outside domestic derbies, I think these are beginging to start, Munster v Ospreys, Ulster v Scarlets are some, but could do with more to add more spice.
No relegration, I actually think no relegration is good, it works for Super rugby, and allows long term planning.
H-cup entry, this is an issue, you need to have representives from each country, but Italy and Scotland getting two Automatic entries and Ireland and Wales 3. I feel that this could be improved. I still see it as every county would get at least one entry, (won't go into this on this thread).
Money, the TV deals and sponsorship are still a long way of the equilivent leagues in England and France, we need to improve on this to get up to an Equal footing in terms of spending power.


What are your thoughts?
If the WRU change the regions could it upset the league?
Could rivalries be built up more?
Could sponsorship and TV money be better?

On thing I belive that could improve it would be if newpapers cover the entire League, alot of Irish papers will only write up about games an Irish team is playing in, your hard pushed to see a write up of a Welsh or Scottish game, and no chance if its an Italian derby. I'm sure its the same in Wales and Scotland, only games that involve a domestic team get a mention. For me the Newpapers need to cover the entire league, not just local teams, to generate more intrest in the table and how other teams are going.

Thoughts?

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

Kingshu wrote:I wasn't being bad about Scarlets, it's just with a 15000 seater stadium, you need to be averaging about 12000 prob to create a good atmosphere, Edinburgh will never create a good atmosphere in murryfield
Glasgow will be good to see next season,, the half empty stadiums look bad on tv, I recon if they showed filled stadiums people would think it looked like more fun to attend.
We need the PDC Darts guy getting the stadiums filled.

I do sometimes think that the stand opposite the main camera should be the priority to fill as the TV shows it straight away. Too many times a stadium (and I'm talking in general here) has one very good stand which has the commentators and tv cameras located in it. The opposite stand is usually a little older. But the club pushes to fill the new stand and leave the slightly older one practically empty. Even if they just move the camera to the other side and shoot the match from that side, the stands look better, the crowd looks bigger, someone watching from home or the pub who is entertained by the game will be more inclined to show up at the next game.

+1

It would boost the image of the league if the stadiums even look fuller.

Edinburgh has taken some measures this season to at least try and create more atmosphere. They're allowing people stand closer to the pitch. Maybe Glasgow should do that in Scotstun stadium because that unfortunately has a running track around it as well.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Also forgot to say - if the reduction is due to ground access then they're not going to be able to get more than 10,000 in the stadium as there's only 2 access points - both on Westgate St. Might be a problem in the future, as no matter if they do up the stadium, they can't do much about the access points.

Unless there's something I haven't considered

I know nothing about access rules, but if they needed another entrance/exit, there is always the walkway along the Taff that could be connected to.

I was wondering about Cardiff Blues, if they return to CAP, would they try to use CCS for bigger games, like Playoffs, Hcup Quarter/semi finals?

However they would need an argreement in place before Cardiff FC reach the prem, as football teams in the prem are not allowed to share a stadium with a rugby team, unless the agreement was in place before that team reached the Prem.

Cardiff Blues would need to act fast, they don't want to drop the deal with CCS, Bluebirds get promoted, and then find they can't share even big games.

I think that from reading all the previous comments the obvious problem is that you have 4 organisations/associations/unions all pulling in different directions. While the Italian Scottish and big 3 Irish teams are, within their own countries, competing on an equal footing they are all at different levels. Maybe what is needed is an American style system whereby a salary cap covers the whole league and everyone is working on an equal footing.

What is needed though is a stronger central figure running things and working on taking the league on and getting hold of the tv rights in one package and selling it off rather than it being taken on by the regions of national unions.

Generally though the league is improving year on year and if you look at the Premier League it took time to grow and now it is a global brand

I thought there was some wall/building between the Taff walkway and the CAP (can't remember for sure though) ?

Kingshu - atmosphere wise at PyS, as long as you get 7,500+ you can get a decent atmosphere going there.

And what people don't realise is that the 7K level for even LV games was so, SO much more than we ever got when we were at Stradey. Loads of our games this season, whilst PyS only being 60% full, would have been sell outs at Stradey. I think that's worth bearing in mind.

Our crowds are growing steadily, year on year, and that for me shows that we are getting more permenant fans, as apposed to casual fans just turning up. We're growing a more permenant support base and that to me is key.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:On the plus side Cardiff Dave - I'd imagine that if the Blues wanted out of their 20 year deal in the next few seasons then I can't imagine Cardiff FC complaining as they want the stadium for themselves, especially if they're in the Premiership - and you'd think the council wouldn't really be bothered as long as someone's giving them money.

Well Cardiff City would be well within their right to hold their 18 day a year tenant to the agreement that ties them into paying £350,000 pa in rent plus 25% running/maintenance costs for 20 years. A sum not to be sniffed at and the running costs are already rising. Was initially £125k, then it increased to £150k and now it's rumoured to be nearer £800k.
If Cardiff Blues are to get out of the deal scot free or can negotiate more favourable terms, then I wouldn't be surprised if Cardiff Council (who wanted the Blues to move in the first place) and the WRU are involved in some way. Saying that I doubt that those in power at Cardiff City FC would want to be seen as having a hand in the mis-fortune of Cardiff Blues.

Kingshu wrote:I was wondering about Cardiff Blues, if they return to CAP, would they try to use CCS for bigger games, like Playoffs, Hcup Quarter/semi finals?

However they would need an argreement in place before Cardiff FC reach the prem, as football teams in the prem are not allowed to share a stadium with a rugby team, unless the agreement was in place before that team reached the Prem.

Cardiff Blues would need to act fast, they don't want to drop the deal with CCS, Bluebirds get promoted, and then find they can't share even big games.

Before Cardiff Blues moved to CCS, they had an agreement with the WRU to use the MS for bigger games.
It was an ideal arrangement that worked well and ensured money spent by all benefitted Welsh rugby.
Playing at CCS would ensure that most of this cash would go to football.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:I thought there was some wall/building between the Taff walkway and the CAP (can't remember for sure though) ?

I think there is a fence/wall, but it would be quite easy to construct a new entrance if required.

Spoiler:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Also forgot to say - if the reduction is due to ground access then they're not going to be able to get more than 10,000 in the stadium as there's only 2 access points - both on Westgate St. Might be a problem in the future, as no matter if they do up the stadium, they can't do much about the access points.

Unless there's something I haven't considered

How about extra cheap seats down the far end with those sitting there declaring that they can swim! They could set up a tightrope across the river and have free entry for anyone who makes it across. Can't see any downside to my suggestion at all

rugbydreamer wrote:Kingshu - atmosphere wise at PyS, as long as you get 7,500+ you can get a decent atmosphere going there.

And what people don't realise is that the 7K level for even LV games was so, SO much more than we ever got when we were at Stradey. Loads of our games this season, whilst PyS only being 60% full, would have been sell outs at Stradey. I think that's worth bearing in mind.

Our crowds are growing steadily, year on year, and that for me shows that we are getting more permenant fans, as apposed to casual fans just turning up. We're growing a more permenant support base and that to me is key.

To be fair I think that is something that is forgotten about the Ospreys and Blues attendances too. Bigger stadiums hold more folk, whilst looking emptier. As for atmosphere in the stadiums, that is up to the fans to create. And once people become a bit more comfortable in their surroundings then the atmosphere should follow. I know I was far quietter in PYS than at Stradey for the first few seasons, as I was getting to know who was around me, and what was deemed appropriate/acceptable and what was not, as I didn't want to end up offending anyone etc. but now I am used to the folk around me I can be a bit more vocal in my support as I know what I can get away with (or not).

My local soccer team has a run down wreck of a stadium that holds 3000 max. But when it's full for a big game the atmosphere is brilliant.

Munster and Leinster were right to play in smaller stadiums until they were sure they definitely needed more capacity. Only then did Munster redeveloped Thomond and Leinster made the move to the RDS.

The Welsh teams jumped the gun and moved to large stadiums without any evidence that the extra capacity would be needed any time soon. And now they're paying for that decision with poor atmosphere, which is actually a turn off to potential supporters.

Feckless Rogue wrote:My local soccer team has a run down wreck of a stadium that holds 3000 max. But when it's full for a big game the atmosphere is brilliant.

Munster and Leinster were right to play in smaller stadiums until they were sure they definitely needed more capacity. Only then did Munster redeveloped Thomond and Leinster made the move to the RDS.

The Welsh teams jumped the gun and moved to large stadiums without any evidence that the extra capacity would be needed any time soon. And now they're paying for that decision with poor atmosphere, which is actually a turn off to potential supporters.

I think the Ospreys saw that the Swans were going to be moving to a new stadium, and took the opertunity to be involved from the start, and you can't blame them for it. That is down to timing that is partly out of your hands. The same can be said for the Blues. When the original move to PYS was on the cards (before the court cases and time wasting) the Scarlets were doing rather well, and were actually pulling in decent crowds, the issues with the move caused (IMO) some loss of fans, as did the slip in form from being the top region (if not second best) to being the worst.

Well see, I'm not so sure about that (at least not for the Scarlets anyway).

We were HC Semi Finalists in '07 and regularly selling out Stradey. Stradey also needed massive redevelopment which would have cost too much in the long run. We didn't really have any option but to build a newer, biggar stadium.

A couple of court cases down the line, peed off locals, amature controlling of finances, some shocking signings etc etc left us in a whole load of debt, unable to compete properly on the field which had a knock on affect on our fans.

This season is the first reason really since then that we've started to turn it around.

With the O's. St Helen's was never big enough to hold them, and at the start I don't think Bridgend came under their region. The Liberty made sense for them, twas a fresh start for a brand new region, but it has been ultimately too big. Not sure what else they could have done. At least now they are starting to play a few games at the Brewery Field in Bridgend.

The Blues? never should have left CAP. Didn't see any sense in it at all, especially when they had the agreement to play bigger games at the MS. It was perfect for them, not sure why they changed it!

rugbydreamer wrote:

The Blues? never should have left CAP. Didn't see any sense in it at all, especially when they had the agreement to play bigger games at the MS. It was perfect for them, not sure why they changed it!

Luxury apartments? Conference centre? Champions league football?

rugbydreamer wrote:The Blues? never should have left CAP. Didn't see any sense in it at all, especially when they had the agreement to play bigger games at the MS. It was perfect for them, not sure why they changed it!

Because the people running rugby in Wales are incompetent fools?

Don't take that as a dig at Wales. We've been enduring some half baked, hair brained schemes form the amateur's running Irish rugby too. The IRFU are just lucky that they look competent when compared to the RFU, WRU and SRU.

Ha that can't be a dig if it's the truth! The WRU have always, and I'm pretty sure always will be, a complete and utter shambles.

There are some positive grumblings doing the round at the minute (like what they're trying to do in north Wales), but I've no doubt they'll mess it up. Tis their way.

I always time its a shame leaving your stadium, For me Leinsters home is still Donneybrook, the RDS is tempory lodging.

It's a shame Donneybook could never be expanded.

Blues must have done a cost analyst of cost to fix up/expand CAP and worked it out as cheaper moving to CCS, however I don't think the move back has as much to do with costs as fans, ie costs increased, and less fans than predicted, made it actually dearer to stay at CCS, so move games back to CAP and be in a beter position to get a better deal

Kingshu wrote:I always time its a shame leaving your stadium, For me Leinsters home is still Donnybrook, the RDS is tempory lodging.

It's a shame Donnybook could never be expanded.

Blues must have done a cost analyst of cost to fix up/expand CAP and worked it out as cheaper moving to CCS, however I don't think the move back has as much to do with costs as fans, ie costs increased, and less fans than predicted, made it actually dearer to stay at CCS, so move games back to CAP and be in a beter position to get a better deal

As a Season ticket holder in both places, the RDS feels like home to me. We are on our 5th season ticket there. I'm sure that even on the telly you can see/hear what a bear pit it is.

I think we have only lost about 5 games there in 5 years in all comps. In fact... from memory. Glasgow in September. Pro 12. Ospreys May 10 ML Final. L Irish Oct 09 HC. Munster Sept 08 ML. Scarlets During 07 WC. I may have forgotten one but I think that's it.

You lost to us in '09 out there, no?

rugbydreamer wrote:You lost to us in '09 out there, no?

Nope October 2007
Fri 5 Oct 19:10 ML Leinster Rugby 23 - 52 Llanelli Scarlets Royal Dublin Society.

A black day in our history

aha yes, my mistake! we beat you 18-16 at PyS in '09, which is actually the last time we've ever beaten you. Such a long time ago

I think the Welsh were unlucky in a way. Things could have been alot different if, for example, the Ospreys won a HEC or get to the final. It seems they always fell just short. As an Ireland rugby fan I know how that feels. If they got some success they would have been seen differently and attracted many more fans. That would have started a positive cycle of events because more money = better players = more success = more fans = more money etc.

Heres a thought. With the new structures in place for the regions it might be a good thing in terms of attracting fans. Expectations are lowered now and people with lower expectations are easier to please. For example the Scots are attracting more fans these days. Their fans have lower expectations so Glasgow being in the top 4 of the league is exciting for them while for Ospreys fans its not a happy time despite the Ospreys being second. One set of fans feel good, the other not so good. Its the feel good factor that is responsible for attendance increases.

Hmm you could say the same profitius about the Scarlets even though we're lower down the league and 3rd highest Welsh region we've got the highest attendances as we've got a feel good factor generated by having exciting youngsters, a feeling that things are only ever going to get better, and things being a LOT better than 2/3 seasons ago when we were scraping around at the bottom of the league.

I do think that the Blues and Ospreys tried to run before they could walk. I believe they thought that moving to brand new, state of the art stadiums would just bring the fans in. The facilities are great and I'm sure more families now go, but I think you may have lost the old guys who' are happy to stand, have a few beers and have the banter.
I'm personally delighted that in Gwent there wasn't a new facility for us to move into. I think the Scarlets stadium will work. It's not too big and has a standing area. Id love it if the Blues went back to the Arms Park. It doesn't hold many good memories for me, but was always my favourite ground in Wales ( cup semi final days - awesome)! I'm not too sure if the Ospreys can or even want to go back to ST Helens or the Gnoll. Was never massively keen on ST Helens, apart from some colossal games against Llanelli when people were climbing the fates to get in. Oy went to the Gnoll once. I was a little boy and Newport were dumped out of the cup by a great Neath team. Scariest place I'd ever been ( Pontypool park aside). You certainly needed to take a spare pair of pants!!!

manofgwent wrote:I do think that the Blues and Ospreys tried to run before they could walk. I believe they thought that moving to brand new, state of the art stadiums would just bring the fans in. The facilities are great and I'm sure more families now go, but I think you may have lost the old guys who' are happy to stand, have a few beers and have the banter.
I'm personally delighted that in Gwent there wasn't a new facility for us to move into. I think the Scarlets stadium will work. It's not too big and has a standing area. Id love it if the Blues went back to the Arms Park. It doesn't hold many good memories for me, but was always my favourite ground in Wales ( cup semi final days - awesome)! I'm not too sure if the Ospreys can or even want to go back to ST Helens or the Gnoll. Was never massively keen on ST Helens, apart from some colossal games against Llanelli when people were climbing the fates to get in. Oy went to the Gnoll once. I was a little boy and Newport were dumped out of the cup by a great Neath team. Scariest place I'd ever been ( Pontypool park aside). You certainly needed to take a spare pair of pants!!!

The facilities at CCS, for your average supporter, are typically what you would expect from an identikit, sterile, off the shelf, get 'em in get 'em out, purpose built football stadium. Beautiful toilets, fast junk food and 3 choices of tipple; Festers, Bowe and something that resembles bitter, all at premium prices of course which are set by the seperate catering company.
But if you have plenty of cash you can join the elite and enjoy the luxuries of central heating, double glazed viewing, deep padded sofas, palatial toilets, char-grilled chicken in the restaurant/suites, waitress service, Chardonnay and more than 3 types of tipple including Guinness.

Don't know about you, but i'm happier standing on a patch of concrete freezing my ar5e off while watching the game. Young or old, it seems a lot of others prefer to do the same.

FYI, all remaining Cardiff Blues home games this season are to be held at the Arms Park, where you don't have to be posh to get a Guinness.

Cardiff Dave wrote:FYI, all remaining Cardiff Blues home games this season are to be held at the Arms Park, where you don't have to be posh to get a Guinness.

Why is that? Don't they have an expensive deal to play in the soccer place?

P.S. Guinness is for all of mankind, not just posh people. Arthur would be turning in his grave.

Which reminds me; the league is getting better and better every year. Good Things come to those who wait.

Is that including the Scarlets match then Dave? I'd have thought they'd be expecting a bigger crowd than the CAP can hold for that one.

Feckless Rogue wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:FYI, all remaining Cardiff Blues home games this season are to be held at the Arms Park, where you don't have to be posh to get a Guinness.

Why is that? Don't they have an expensive deal to play in the soccer place?

P.S. Guinness is for all of mankind, not just posh people. Arthur would be turning in his grave.

Which reminds me; the league is getting better and better every year. Good Things come to those who wait.

Feckless, I heard a rumour that they can make more money by renting the CCS AND playing games at CAP, crazy I know. I think at the CCS they give away so many free tickets that the actual ticket sales are relatively low. I'm not sure how much of the ticket sales the Blues get either. Would it go to the stadium owners, or would the Blues get a cut? By continuing to pay their rent at CCS, but by getting 8,000 ticket sales at CAP where I don't think they have to pay rent and can keep the ticket sales money, I think they claw back some of the rental costs of CCS, if that makes sense.

I've also heard that Cardiff City are happy to let the Blues out of their long term lease agreement rather than charge them or hold them to it.

Feckless Rogue wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:FYI, all remaining Cardiff Blues home games this season are to be held at the Arms Park, where you don't have to be posh to get a Guinness.

Why is that? Don't they have an expensive deal to play in the soccer place?

P.S. Guinness is for all of mankind, not just posh people. Arthur would be turning in his grave.

Which reminds me; the league is getting better and better every year. Good Things come to those who wait.

Yeah they do and I believe they will try/are trying to get out of it somehow, someway.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Kingshu wrote:I always time its a shame leaving your stadium, For me Leinsters home is still Donnybrook, the RDS is tempory lodging.

It's a shame Donnybook could never be expanded.

Blues must have done a cost analyst of cost to fix up/expand CAP and worked it out as cheaper moving to CCS, however I don't think the move back has as much to do with costs as fans, ie costs increased, and less fans than predicted, made it actually dearer to stay at CCS, so move games back to CAP and be in a beter position to get a better deal

As a Season ticket holder in both places, the RDS feels like home to me. We are on our 5th season ticket there. I'm sure that even on the telly you can see/hear what a bear pit it is.

I think we have only lost about 5 games there in 5 years in all comps. In fact... from memory. Glasgow in September. Pro 12. Ospreys May 10 ML Final. L Irish Oct 09 HC. Munster Sept 08 ML. Scarlets During 07 WC. I may have forgotten one but I think that's it.

Bath beat us there in 2005.

rugbydreamer wrote:Is that including the Scarlets match then Dave? I'd have thought they'd be expecting a bigger crowd than the CAP can hold for that one.

Yes, but don't take my word for it. Wait for the official announcement(s).
10k-12k (true figure) I would expect, but most will have paid for their tickets at the Arms Park.

Hmm, will be nice if the Scarlets did play there, but I would have thought they'd easily get more than 12K for that one.

Griff wrote:

Feckless, I heard a rumour that they can make more money by renting the CCS AND playing games at CAP, crazy I know. I think at the CCS they give away so many free tickets that the actual ticket sales are relatively low. I'm not sure how much of the ticket sales the Blues get either. Would it go to the stadium owners, or would the Blues get a cut? By continuing to pay their rent at CCS, but by getting 8,000 ticket sales at CAP where I don't think they have to pay rent and can keep the ticket sales money, I think they claw back some of the rental costs of CCS, if that makes sense.

I've also heard that Cardiff City are happy to let the Blues out of their long term lease agreement rather than charge them or hold them to it.

It is a crazy situation and Cardiff Blues need to get out of CCS. Yes they do make more money at CAP, a lot more in fact.
They still pay £98k pa rent for use of the Arms Park as they always have done, so they've been renting 2 stadiums for the last 3 seasons.

Not sure about what Cardiff City think of it all. We'll find out soon enough.

rugbydreamer wrote:Hmm, will be nice if the Scarlets did play there, but I would have thought they'd easily get more than 12K for that one.

Don't let CCS attendance figures cloud your judgement and 12k all paying is better than 14k with freebies. Plus the profits from food/drink at CAP would dwarf what they would make at CCS since they only get a small % of sales down there. Seperate catering company you see and they trouser the lion's share, not Cardiff Blues.

CAP on the south terracing side only had one food stall. I can't see them making all that much money from it. They would need a load more to cater for a 12K crowd. I had to wait 15mins for food last Friday, and that was with less that 8K in there.

rugbydreamer wrote:CAP on the south terracing side only had one food stall. I can't see them making all that much money from it. They would need a load more to cater for a 12K crowd. I had to wait 15mins for food last Friday, and that was with less that 8K in there.

I noticed the queue for the burger van was a mile long.
CAP was not prepared for last week's game and the family lounge at the Taff end of the south terrace didn't even have beer on tap nor did it have the cheese/ham/turkey rolls it used to sell. The clubhouse, upstairs and down will have all that though and there should be food stalls behind the north stand as well as a portable beer outlet of sorts.
Hopefully they'll put other stuff on tonight and in the future have some permanent facilities in place, but don't blame CAP. I know you're not, but it's those in charge who have failed to realise the potential and make the most of the place for years and years.
New management is next on the agenda after the CCS deal is sorted. Thomas signed it, he can pay what it costs to get out of it then he can naff off to the med and play with his yacht.

rugbydreamer wrote:Hmm, will be nice if the Scarlets did play there, but I would have thought they'd easily get more than 12K for that one.

Think I might have jumped the gun slightly.
Looks like the Welsh derbies will be staged at CCS.
The nobs are having a meeting today, so who knows for sure.
Only a couple of weeks ago, they said that games at CAP were out of the question, then we have 2 on the bounce.

Would make more sense to be to have the derby games played at CCS. If they get used to getting big crowds again at CAP, it should be too difficult with away support to get about 14-15K at CCS, and that should be enough to make some sort of atmosphere anyways.

I agree with Cardiff Dave . I'd take the blues attendances with a big pinch of salt. I've been there twice as a visiting Dragons fan and on both occasions was handed free tickets outside the ground. Nine of us went down 3 years ago and we got ourhands on 7 freebies!!
If the Blues do go back to the Arms Park, they will no doubt face a battle with the city centre in terms of making money from food and drink and corporate boxes, but if the Dragons can develop their ground, so too could Cardiff. Somebody posted yesterday that the Arma Park was in a state, but I doubt it's no worse than the Hazell stand at RP.
I'm sure that the better atmosphere will also help the team on the pitch, but maybe not tonight!

manofgwent wrote:I agree with Cardiff Dave . I'd take the blues attendances with a big pinch of salt. I've been there twice as a visiting Dragons fan and on both occasions was handed free tickets outside the ground. Nine of us went down 3 years ago and we got ourhands on 7 freebies!!
If the Blues do go back to the Arms Park, they will no doubt face a battle with the city centre in terms of making money from food and drink and corporate boxes, but if the Dragons can develop their ground, so too could Cardiff. Somebody posted yesterday that the Arma Park was in a state, but I doubt it's no worse than the Hazell stand at RP.
I'm sure that the better atmosphere will also help the team on the pitch, but maybe not tonight!

Thanks for clarifying things MOG and it was suspected that Cardiff Blues doshed out loads of free tickets although the financial director denied this apparently. He left the club recently around the same time as Dai Young I believe. Bob Norster, chief exec and line out legend for Wales left the club a couple of months ago.
A coincidence?

In answer to the OP question.

Not according to MOM Xavier Rush - he still thinks your playing in the Magners !

I thought last nights game was fairly poor tbh , maybe the wind had something to do with it, players missing etc.
But apart from a couple of good touches - pop pass by Henson, 'some' Parks kicking, run of Paddy Wallace nothing to write home about.

Blues weren't particularly good & Ulster were pants.

It is a seriously good competition. A handful of shoddy games throughout the season, when even the top sides are way off-form? Yeah, it has those and every league does. But it's producing players of the claibre that are now in Welsh shirts and players of the calibre that now are taking up 5 of the HC QF places.

Those players and the rugby needed to achieve such success doesn't just appear when needed at International or HC level - they are created in a yearly league. Pro12 has two equal league partners in Europe (being generous), it doesn't stand beneath them for quality production. Where it might struggle for a few years yet is in the numbers of quality players... but thats population density and few of us (with the exception of Italy) will ever bridge that particular gap.

rugbydreamer wrote:CAP on the south terracing side only had one food stall. I can't see them making all that much money from it. They would need a load more to cater for a 12K crowd. I had to wait 15mins for food last Friday, and that was with less that 8K in there.

They had a Hog Roast next to the burger van on Friday. Very nice too.

ah trust me to pick the wrong weekend to head back West!

Managed to watch the 2nd half on the teledu, seemed a v good atmosphere at CAP once more. V happy with the decision they are going to be playing most of their games there.

The Pro12 needs a strong Blues side in it, and this move back should really help.

I just saw this about Connacht and thought it would be relevent to this thread. Connacht are currently second from bottom which makes it even more impressive.

=============================================
18/2/2011: Connacht vs Glasgow Warriors Attendance: 1,268
18/2/2012: Connacht vs Glasgow Warriors Attendance: 4,189

Excluding inter pro games Connacht's lowest Pro12 attendance this season (3408 against Lanelli) is bigger than last seasons highest attendance (2035 v The Ospreys) by nearly 1400!