Pro 12, becoming a serously good league?

First topic message reminder :

Comparing the Pro 12 at its begingings to as it is now, I think that we have possality of having the best League in the world.

Back when it was formed we had the problem of regionalisation, and 2 sides folding. The sides have now bedded in, and two Italian sides have joined.

Munster, Leinster and Ulster are all strong teams, Connacht are improving and I think some teams still underestimate them.

Ospreys are rebuilding but still strong, Blues will need to but should stay competative, Scarlets already have and are looking to be really good in a few years if they carry on the upward curve, Dragons are losing their best players and look to be going backwards.

Glasgow and Edinburgh are now under a new SRU control and are getting better, in playoff spot and Hcup Qfinal, things look better for next year.

Teviso and Aironi are improving, Teviso more so, and are becoming a mid table side and could improve, Aironi have a way to go yet.

With so many teams improving teams have to run to standstill. Of the top 10 teams in Europe more than a third (3 leagues so a 1/3 each would be an even distrubtion) are in the Pro 12.

However some of the same problems still arise that we had at the beginging.

Regions, we could write a book of this.
Distance apart, you get fewer away fans at games outside your domestic country, but this is being largly offsest by the teams growning and attracting more home supporters, I don't believe it's the same problem as it was.
Lack of rivalries outside domestic derbies, I think these are beginging to start, Munster v Ospreys, Ulster v Scarlets are some, but could do with more to add more spice.
No relegration, I actually think no relegration is good, it works for Super rugby, and allows long term planning.
H-cup entry, this is an issue, you need to have representives from each country, but Italy and Scotland getting two Automatic entries and Ireland and Wales 3. I feel that this could be improved. I still see it as every county would get at least one entry, (won't go into this on this thread).
Money, the TV deals and sponsorship are still a long way of the equilivent leagues in England and France, we need to improve on this to get up to an Equal footing in terms of spending power.


What are your thoughts?
If the WRU change the regions could it upset the league?
Could rivalries be built up more?
Could sponsorship and TV money be better?

On thing I belive that could improve it would be if newpapers cover the entire League, alot of Irish papers will only write up about games an Irish team is playing in, your hard pushed to see a write up of a Welsh or Scottish game, and no chance if its an Italian derby. I'm sure its the same in Wales and Scotland, only games that involve a domestic team get a mention. For me the Newpapers need to cover the entire league, not just local teams, to generate more intrest in the table and how other teams are going.

Thoughts?

I've got to question a few statements - particularly that the Welsh regions can't afford to keep top players - the only players the Ospreys have lost are players they didn't want to keep - Hook, Byrne & Phillips, they've kept their core players - A Jones, P James, R Jones, AW Jones, Biggar, Shane (I know he's retiring this year, but they've kept him for his whole regional career) - and are only letting Bowe go now after he's served them well and they want to cut down on NWQ players.

The Blues have only lost Lualua whose getting on and isn't as good as 2 seasons ago, but have kept all their big Welsh ints - Roberts, Halfpenny, Warbs, L Williams, and I expect them to keep Jenks.

The Scarlets have kept all of their up and coming youngsters, and may loose Morgan (or may not we don't know) but they probably aren't making as much effort to keep him now that he's NWQ. and this is despite the Scarlets being a relatively strapped for cash side.

The Dragons have lost Chateris to France, but he will probably come back after 2 seasons (ala S Jones and G Thomas) and Tovey to the Blues, another Welsh team - but the Dragons are the poorest of the Welsh teams and expect a bit of movement of their better players - but they've still kept hold of Brew, Burns, Faletau & Lydiate and have some promising youngsters coming through as well.

Also Irish attendances are very good - the Scarlets are on the up, the Blues had 8,000 for Connacht and will be interesting how many more games they play in the CAP, the Ospreys were increasing their avg attendance until the dreaded triple H (Holley, Hore and Humphries) and Johnson struck and they've been playing very poorly - so I'd expect their attendances to increase with the new coaching structure and a few more games played at Bridgend. Give it 5 years and I bet the regions will be transformed.

I mean you guys have a lot of depth so you can compete in the HC and the Pro 12 as we've seen. The Welsh regions and Scottish clubs simply cannot.

The SRU have long said they want to regain the four pro teams in Scotland + London Scottish have said they want to become a pro-team option for Scotland in the celtic league.

Great league???
The dragons v blues have been rescheduled for Thursday 15th march. One of the biggest derbies on a thursday with no internationals available!!!
The Rabies is a joke league!!!
Away support on a Thursday night??? Not a chance. I can't quite put my finger on why attendances are so low?!?!?!?!

At the moment its a development league. I can't look at it in any other way.

manofgwent wrote:Great league???
The dragons v blues have been rescheduled for Thursday 15th march. One of the biggest derbies on a thursday with no internationals available!!!
The Rabies is a joke league!!!
Away support on a Thursday night??? Not a chance. I can't quite put my finger on why attendances are so low?!?!?!?!

The jokes on you. If you want the league to succeed you have to stop talking it down all the time.

manofgwent wrote:Great league???
The dragons v blues have been rescheduled for Thursday 15th march. One of the biggest derbies on a thursday with no internationals available!!!
The Rabies is a joke league!!!
Away support on a Thursday night??? Not a chance. I can't quite put my finger on why attendances are so low?!?!?!?!

Yeah. Just heard the news and I have tickets. Not sure if we'll be able to make it on a Thursday.

The acid test for the Welsh regions is just beginning. Those in charge have realised that they can't keep ignoring fans, and that buying in talent (discarded Kiwis) hasnt helped in the long term.

New financial restrainst means that the regions will have to develop the game at all levels, looking for the talent wherver they can. If they can get it right, maybe in a couple of seasons we'll see the regions getting back to the top.

This will help the PRO12 as a league, hopfeully in the long term it will be even stronger

BridgendBoyo wrote:New financial restrainst means that the regions will have to develop the game at all levels, looking for the talent wherver they can. If they can get it right, maybe in a couple of seasons we'll see the regions getting back to the top.

By back to the top what do you mean? We have had (between the regions) 4 Celtic/Magners/Rabo League Champions, 1 Amlin Cup winner and 2 Anglo Welsh Cup winners (as well as a couple of HC Semi finals, and a handfull of QFs), surely those are heights that we not achieved (or very rarely) prior to the regions?

gowales wrote:Well there lies the problem Leinster and Munster can. The rest of the teams in the league cannot.

But many teams can - look at the Ospreys team of old - it had 3 Welsh int hookers in the team, 4 props, and a shed load of backrow players.

My team the Scarlets for example can field this side -
Iestyn Thomas/R Jones
K Owens/E Phillips
R Thomas (until recently)/Manu/Gardiner
Welch/Day
Timani
McCusker/Turnbull
Gilbert/Edwards
Murphy
G Davies/L Davies
A Thomas/J Williams
Liam Williams/Lee Williams
Warren
Scott Williams
Ionghi
D Evans

That's not a bad side considering you have Stoddart injured, and I haven't included S Jones, Priestland, JD2, North, Lamont, Knoyle, Morgan, Shingler, Reed, Rees.

And that's just the Scarlets who have a lot less money that teams like the Blues, Ospreys or Ulster, and are just coming out of a restructuring of the squad.

But the main problems with the league as I see it are the awkward kick off times (which combines with the poor public transport in most of the countries means it's almost impossible to get to/back from games late on a friday/sat night. But majorily as well is the season structure - where this season the season started with many int players still being rested after the WC, then they come back for a game, then it's straight into the HEC, then back to league then to the LV Cup (many players rested), then there was a Dec int (only in Wales but AI's for all countries most seasons), then players rested again, then HEC, then league xmas derbies, then a (relatively) settled few weeks before players being rested (or going to a training camp) before the 6Ns, after which they'll be rested before being reintroduced to the league just in time for the knockout stages of the HEC/Amlin and then a mostly steady 2 months gearing up for the playoffs.

It's madness and means rotation (as in the English/French leagues) is essential.

And in all honesty the rotation thing literally just applies to your internationals.

So your non Welsh/Irish/Scottish qualified lads - milk them for what their worth. Play them in every match possible. Same with lads who aren't international class.

Play your strongest 15 in every Heineken Cup match and your derby matches. Play a very weak team in at most about 2-3 matches during the year.
The rest of the time have a balancing act between resting a top class player and bringing in a new face.
In time the lines between the two get blurred.

It takes time but is achievable not just for Irish.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

BridgendBoyo wrote:New financial restrainst means that the regions will have to develop the game at all levels, looking for the talent wherver they can. If they can get it right, maybe in a couple of seasons we'll see the regions getting back to the top.

By back to the top what do you mean? We have had (between the regions) 4 Celtic/Magners/Rabo League Champions, 1 Amlin Cup winner and 2 Anglo Welsh Cup winners (as well as a couple of HC Semi finals, and a handfull of QFs), surely those are heights that we not achieved (or very rarely) prior to the regions?

I was talking in terms of this season, not previous ones

red_stag wrote:And in all honesty the rotation thing literally just applies to your internationals.

So your non Welsh/Irish/Scottish qualified lads - milk them for what their worth. Play them in every match possible. Same with lads who aren't international class.

Play your strongest 15 in every Heineken Cup match and your derby matches. Play a very weak team in at most about 2-3 matches during the year.
The rest of the time have a balancing act between resting a top class player and bringing in a new face.
In time the lines between the two get blurred.

It takes time but is achievable not just for Irish.

+1 to that

BridgendBoyo wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

BridgendBoyo wrote:New financial restrainst means that the regions will have to develop the game at all levels, looking for the talent wherver they can. If they can get it right, maybe in a couple of seasons we'll see the regions getting back to the top.

By back to the top what do you mean? We have had (between the regions) 4 Celtic/Magners/Rabo League Champions, 1 Amlin Cup winner and 2 Anglo Welsh Cup winners (as well as a couple of HC Semi finals, and a handfull of QFs), surely those are heights that we not achieved (or very rarely) prior to the regions?

I was talking in terms of this season, not previous ones

Ah, oops sorry

dim prob

gowales wrote:I don't mind the regions. The league just doesn't interest me to be honest. Because some of the rugby played by the Welsh regions is absolutely abysmal and I don't really care about playing teams like Edinburgh or Connaught. Id much rather be watching the HC or a Welsh premiership game

I don't get it you say you don't like the league, because the rugby is abysmal, and that the bigger teams rotate squads and star players rearly play, so you'd rather watch a Welsh Prem game, which is at an even lower standard, (Aironi would walk the Welsh prem) with players nobody know?

and GoWales - don't forget in the Welsh Prem the best players regularly disappear to play with the regions (during LV games and so on), so you get exactly the same problems you've identified with the Rabo, but at a much lower standard with lower attendances.

I should have rephrased it. I don't actually watch the Welsh prem.
What i meant was i would prefer to watch proper rivalries rather than games against Edinburgh and Connaught who i couldn't care less about.

Look at the sports leagues around the world. People aren't as interested in Intercountry/continental leagues as they are for elite domestic ones. Thats why they've introduced more derby games in Super rugby because the Crusader supporters don't care about playing against Western Force.

I only enjoy watching the Welsh derbies and big Irish games.

I heard the UEFA Champions league has a few regular followers. They show it on TV sometimes I think. And the Heineken Cup gets some interest despite the fact that Saracens and Ospreys have no "traditional rivalry". Neither do Ulster and Clermont.

Leinster fans don't "care" about Treviso either really. They'd go to watch Leinster play anyone because they care about Leinster.

I can understand that gowales, it does add a lack of spice.

Ospreys are building rivalries well though, Leicester, Munster, Leinster
and Scarlets with Ulster.

but they go lack a bit of bite, and we could do with a bit more.

Thats because it is the UEFA Champions league and the Henieken Cup. Those aren't leagues.

You can't tell me Super rugby is a good model. The only thing its good for is the international teams.

gowales wrote:I should have rephrased it. I don't actually watch the Welsh prem.
What i meant was i would prefer to watch proper rivalries rather than games against Edinburgh and Connaught who i couldn't care less about.

Look at the sports leagues around the world. People aren't as interested in Intercountry/continental leagues as they are for elite domestic ones. Thats why they've introduced more derby games in Super rugby because the Crusader supporters don't care about playing against Western Force.

I only enjoy watching the Welsh derbies and big Irish games.

Thats the thing though, theres not that many rivalries in any sport. Usually its teams who are near each other in the league or neighbours etc. Man Utd would have a few rivalries in the premiership like Liverpool and Man City but their rivalry with Arsenal has disappeared in the past few seasons because Arsenal are no threat to them anymore. Most matches Man Utd play they're not going to play at 100% because they don't have to.

I do think the lack of away fans at some of the Pro12 games certainly affect the atmosphere unless its derbies of course.

But that said there are a few rivalries building nicely now, I have quite a few Munstre friends and they say they now 'eye' which away fixtures in the Pro12 they go to because of the banter etc that goes on there.

The whole point of the Rabo Direct was to help the Celtic countries bridge the gap between club and international games and allow the teams to catch up with France and England, it could be argued that not only have we caught them up but now over taken them.

It is doing it's job, I don;t think it will be long before we catch the Tri Nations teams too because the Super 15, is becoming so diluted with the constant adding of new teams that the games can look pretty average.

Quantity is giving way over quality now.

I totally accept fans of Irish provinces biting back at my comments and to be fair my argument was based more to the welsh regions than the Irish provinces. We can only dream of the attendances your top 3 are capable of.
I also hear what you're saying about being able to rest players and still being in the top spots for the league. Provincial rugby is in great shape. I'm more talking about how appalling attendances are in Wales. I feel that the Rabies league just doesn't create the same buzz here in Wales. As a Deagons fan, you can imagine I've watched my fair share of guff, but I stick with my team and take satisfaction from seeing our young players develop, but where the Rabies doesn't help, is that in Wales every region has several thousand die-hards and then the regions have to try and entice the several thousand who are fair weather followers. Well frankly a lot of people in Wales don't think the product is particularly good as they don't turn up in great numbers and when you bare in mind what else families could be spending money on in difficult times who can blame them?
As I mentioned above the Dragons v Blues game has been re-arranged to a thursday before the final 6 N's game. A Blues fan who's got tickets has already stated he can't make it. This is one of the biggest welsh derbies. Played on a Thursday night, with no tipminternationals playing. This game should be showcasing the best welsh talent in front of a full house. How will the regions ever attract the casual supporter. It's a disgrace!! This weekend there's a top 14 game sold out at the Stafe de France. Look at what the London teams do with their Twickenham double headers!! Our national side may be on a high, but the regional game IN WALES is in a mess!!

Profitius.
Not quite sure what joke is on me. I'm just stating my point of view and you've only got to look at attendances in Wales to know that there are a lot who agree with me.
I don't talk the league down for the fun of it. These are my opinions and I'm just getting involved in the debate. I've been a dragons season ticket holder since their inception and a Newport one before that so I feel that I'm justified in having my say. As I've already stated, my comments are based on how the Rabies is effecting the welsh game.

manofgwent wrote:Profitius.
Not quite sure what joke is on me. I'm just stating my point of view and you've only got to look at attendances in Wales to know that there are a lot who agree with me.
I don't talk the league down for the fun of it. These are my opinions and I'm just getting involved in the debate. I've been a dragons season ticket holder since their inception and a Newport one before that so I feel that I'm justified in having my say. As I've already stated, my comments are based on how the Rabies is effecting the welsh game.

What I mean by that is for attendances to grow you need to show the league in a positive way. Its the feel good factor. It has its faults but talking it down has a massive effect on attendances. Sky do the complete opposite and talk up all their sports like the Aviva premiership.This generates a feel good factor and fans see it as a good value event to attend.

Connachts attendances have risen by a large amount this season in the Pro 12. This is because theres a feel good factor there this season. They lost their top 4 players during the summer but still there is a feel good factor there this season because they decided to do something about their situation last season and new people came in to run it and obviously its gone well from there.

Attendances have risen generally in the Celtic league/Pro 12 from its begining nearly every season and I think a big part of the reason is the quality of rugby being played. I remember the early days watching Munster and lets just say there were games where they couldn't pass it twice without knocking on the ball.

So basically be glass half full. See the positives. Wales are flying at the moment and a large part of that success has been the Pro 12 league. Italy are also getting harder to beat. Generally the Pro 12 is helping its countries to close the gap on the southern hemisphere's big 3.

Profits. I couldn't disagree more. You're looking at it from the irish point of view. The welsh regions are on the whole losing top players and can't afford to replace them. I don't think me talking the league down will effect attendances. I think a lack of top players, ridiculous kick off times, a lack of rivalries effect attendances. I don't really see that many people in the media who talk down the Rabies. Italy are catching up and there 2 teams joining a Celtic league will only help, but so will a lot of their players playing in France and England.
Wales are on the up. A lot of ghat is down to the academies and the Rabies league, but having watched the first 2 rounds of the 6 N's, I don't think the northern hemisphere teams are closing the gap at all. England, Italy and Scotland have scored just 1 try from attacking play between them. I can't imagine what any SH rugby fan would have made of the Scotland v England or Italy v England games.
I'm not completely slating the rabies. Maybe it needs more time to grow. I do find the scheduling of games to be my main gripe. I'm not too sure what the welsh regions can do to get attendances that compare with the provinces.
I'm off to watch the Dragons play Edinburgh on Saturday at 6.30. The attendance will be low, the atmosphere will be poor and I can't say that I'm filled with excitement. I'll go and watch a struggling Dragons tram take on a very weakened Edinburgh team in a game that will no doubt be littered with errors. Can't wait!

Bloody hell, we like a self destruct button in Wales.
The national team's going well so let's look at regionalism/pro12 and tear that apart...

I think not competing with other countries has been blown out of proportion somewhat. I know that finances are very very different in some cases, but if you go past the top four French teams, I'd argue that the rest are average club teams anyway.

We're certainly not competing on terms of TV revenue and attendance (at least in Wales) buy charging £20+ a ticket to wTch the Ospreys isn't going to help.

£18 to watch the dragons v Edinburgh. That simply isn't value for money.

manofgwent wrote:I do find the scheduling of games to be my main gripe.

Aye and Cardiff Blues haven't played the Scarlets yet this season. After the 6Ns at the end of March is when they first meet up in the league.
Also MOG, it does seem that the Dragons get more than their fair share of Thursday and Sunday league games (basically unheard of 5 or so years ago) which can't help matters. Although I must stress that is more to do with Welsh tv deals rather than it being a fault of the league itself.

Is it the ticket prices (which are similar in every country), or the structure of the league, or the location of the stadium, or Irish teams not taking it seriously (even though they keep winning it), or the biased refs, or the price of food, or poor coaching & performances (real fans support a team through thick and thin), or the kickoff times (same in Ireland), or the fact that you can't support the same team as someone from a neighbouring village?

You know the lack of money, poor atmosphere at games and players leaving Wales is a direct result of the poor support shown from the public.

manofgwent wrote:We can only dream of the attendances your top 3 are capable of.

Nonsense. The population of Newport is higher than that of Limerick.

manofgwent wrote:£18 to watch the dragons v Edinburgh. That simply isn't value for money.

Its in the eye of the beholder. To me thats a fair price. You'd pay a fiver to watch a bunch of amatuers play a game.

red_stag wrote:

manofgwent wrote:£18 to watch the dragons v Edinburgh. That simply isn't value for money.

Its in the eye of the beholder. To me thats a fair price. You'd pay a fiver to watch a bunch of amatuers play a game.

MOG has already said he is going to the game though.

I think its wrong in general that the superclubs charge full price for a game during the 6N or AI internationals when a lot of players are out

Not sure why in rugby union they actually play during international weekends in Britain and Ireland. Football (Premiership and Championship) and rugby league never do it

I feel that it's fair too. But when you've got low attendances and are trying to attract more to watch, or even purchase season tickets, surely the price should be looked at/dropped??

I feel that at around £20 a ticket (tough for a family) regions could be missing out on those one off supporters. For most of us, rugby is rugby and we'll love it and support our teams no matter what, but I think we're missing opportunities...

MonkeyOwain12 wrote:I feel that it's fair too. But when you've got low attendances and are trying to attract more to watch, or even purchase season tickets, surely the price should be looked at/dropped??

I feel that at around £20 a ticket (tough for a family) regions could be missing out on those one off supporters. For most of us, rugby is rugby and we'll love it and support our teams no matter what, but I think we're missing opportunities...

Family tickets (2 adults and 2 kids) are £20 for the Ulster game at the Arms Park on Friday evening.

If I could suggest one thing that would improve the league no end, is to find a two windows in the season where there are three consecutive weekends with no internationals, training camps, looming Heineken Cup fixtures etc. and have all the derby matches in that period. Ideally the last one would be right before the playoffs.

If the Pro12 could schedule derby matches at a time when teams can prioritise in terms of selection and pick all of their internationals, everyone would benefit. They are the easiest games to market, hence we should use them as showcases for the top players (who will understandably miss a lot of other games.)

£20 a family ticket is awesome!
Would that have happened at Lego land?

That is a good price to be pair. Just goes to show the Pieman aint so dull after all

Feckless. How can you say that it's nonsense that the dragons aren't capable of Munsterd attendances. Newport may be more populated than Limerick, but the ground only hold about £11,000 and we only fill it when we play the Blues, but we won't on a Thursday night. Would Leinster v Munster ever be re-arranged for a Thursday??!
Red stag. Yes unfortunately I'm a ST holder at the Dragons!!! Not only is £18 a lot to pay on the night for a casual fan and those are who we need to attract, but the Dragons don't look after their ST holders at all. The LV game against Saracens was called off. It won't be re-arranged. We were given a 20-0 loss (not bad to be fair)!!! But I haven't heard anything from the club to say sorry or a good will gesture. I've paid for this game as part of my ST.

mog,

To be honest I don't think £18 is that bad and as Iwork away I pay as casual fan and didnt renew my season ticket.

That said people should be reimbursed in some way for the the Sarries game

Bedford. £18 isn't shocking, but for a home game against Edinburgh with no internationals available as I've said we won't get the casual fan. A couple of my mates who have got ST aren't going. That's probably got more to do with off field matters at RP though. My father in law goes to a few games, but I know he'd rather watch it on the box. £18 isn't shocking, but for the casual punter, they'd rather spend their money on something else. We'll probably get just over 5,000 and it'll be pretty flat over there. Be interesting to see what kind of reaction Tovey recieves!!

I don't think ticket prices are anywhere near the whole story for poor attendances in some of Wales' regions.

For the Scarlets they rely on a lot of footfall from the town of Llanelli to really bump their attendances and I can guarantee you now, there's not a lot of disposable income in that area at all. Yet our attendances are 10% up on last season.

Price isn't everything. There's the whole match day experience that goes with it.

All the regions are going to have to look at different ways to market their product to get more people through the gates. There does need to be a feel good factor as another poster has stated.

So far this season the Scarlets have it. The Blues are starting to get it with their move back to CAP. Hopefully the O's will get it now that Holley and Johnson are leaving. The Dragons have had a really, really unlucky season, but I think if they start playing the brand of rugby they were showing the end of last season, they'd get a positive vibe back too.

It's a whole multitude of things that are needed to help grow the regional game in Wales, but I think it's unfair to say that it's all doom and gloom. It wasn't long ago that the Blues were averaging 9,000, and the Scarlets aren't that far off it now either.

I do agree though that scheduling is an absolute farce. I mean we had Wales v Scotland last weekend, and yet we had two Welsh regions playing away to Scottish sides. If the Pro12 wants crowds to grow, they seriously have to look at things like that.

Oh, and for the love of God, please stop scheduling Thursday games! That's almost guaranteeing a poor crowd. I know I can't make the Scarlets v Treviso game next Thursday, and I'm a season ticket holder

manofgwent wrote:Bedford. £18 isn't shocking, but for a home game against Edinburgh with no internationals available as I've said we won't get the casual fan. A couple of my mates who have got ST aren't going. That's probably got more to do with off field matters at RP though. My father in law goes to a few games, but I know he'd rather watch it on the box. £18 isn't shocking, but for the casual punter, they'd rather spend their money on something else. We'll probably get just over 5,000 and it'll be pretty flat over there. Be interesting to see what kind of reaction Tovey recieves!!

When you put it like that Mog I can see your point and I do try and time my trips home around the 'bigger' games so then it is a reasonable price, maybe reduced tickets during International windows would be an option worth looking at.

I think Tovey will be ok, he's never not done his best when playing for us and I think he will continue to do so. The only one who has got a hard time after leaving is Sweeney and that was more down to his complete lack of interest when playing for us.

I know in Wales people complain about the kick off times a lot, people seem to want to return to the sat 2-3 kick off time.

However I think we in Ireland have accepted that Sat 2-3 is the club teams ko time, and as a province we shouldn't be competeing with the clubs.

Wales has to accept that 2-3 on a sat is the club teams KO time, and as regions their KO time is Fri or Sat evenings. I'd be annoyed to about Thur games and to a lesser extent sunday games, but sometime these will happen, for rescheduled games.

But overall the regions have to accept that they are now regions, not clubs. Regional KO time is Fri or Sat Evening, clubs sat afternoon, and they shouldn't clash, or compete against one another, if they can help it.

Fine if the KO times are in the evening, but if that's the case then Wales needs to invest massively in public transport. Not everyone can drive. What's the point in having an evening kick off where folks can get there for the match, but then miss the last bus/train home? People simply won't go.

MonkeyOwain12 wrote:£20 a family ticket is awesome!
Would that have happened at Lego land?

£22 at Cardiff City's ground, so still a bargain.

That seems more an issue with the train/bus operators. Is it a far trip from Cardiff to Rodney Parade?
I felt more appreciation for the handful of Treviso fans that got to Dublin for their thursday night game last week.

I think the Irish provinces have figured out some of the fixtures stuff far better than the Welsh from how it is described. From a Leinster/Munster point of view the 2 pro12 fixtures are the first in the NLR the week before the HC kicks off (builds lots of interest into the clubs and gets banter started) then they play the week before the HC quarter finals (draw the attention after the 6Ns back into the provincial games and the end of the season run-in.
Then a Connacht game and Ulster game over the Christmas break (no foreign travel at a time of year that is costly and tiresome to travel abroad).

Why aren't Ospreys/Blues or Blues/Scarlets aligning their clashes to similar weekends and it could be billed out as a tv double header the week before HC starts on BBC/RTE/TG4 or whichever (you could easily advertise a Blues/Scarlets followed by Munster/Leinster back to back the week before HC quarter finals).

Thursday games I don't like, I don't think they generate people at the gate or even that much TV interest. They should be consolidating something like 4 playtime windows in a weekend (Friday night, Saturday 5:30, Saturday 8pm, Sunday afternoon). If they think TV wise there might be a slot on a Thursday, that should be a build-up analysis show. A couple of stations could pool together and record one show with combined punditry and televise it on multiple stations (saves them costs and gives the different countries comments/access/visibility on what is happening in Wales/Scotland/Ireland etc). Same could be said for a need for a highlights show on a Monday evening

thebandwagonsociety wrote:That seems more an issue with the train/bus operators. Is it a far trip from Cardiff to Rodney Parade?

By train, it is 13 mins from Cardiff Central to Newport and Rodney Parade is a 3 min walk away from the station. A return ticket is about £3.