Where will England Finish in the Six Nations

by **Enforcer** Wed 15 Feb 2012, 4:07 pm

This thread is to discuss where you think England will finish in the 6 Nations.

It is not to discuss any previous threads on this matter.

by Mr Bounce Wed 15 Feb 2012, 4:09 pm

I will be honest and say I can't see them beating Wales or France, much as I'd like them to. I also believe they'll beat Ireland in a very close encounter as the injured players come back.

by Effervescing Elephant Wed 15 Feb 2012, 4:11 pm

Yes, i think we will struggle to win our three remaining games, so i have voted 1st. Cos i can.

by Guest Wed 15 Feb 2012, 4:11 pm

Good thread with a nice range of options. Something for everyone.

by **Notch** Wed 15 Feb 2012, 4:12 pm

I've gone for 4th- I believe they will lose their remaining games.

I do hope they beat Wales though- nothing against Wales, that would just blow the tournament wide open. If Wales lose at Twickenham it could go 4 ways and it's hard to pick a winner.

My money would still be on France/Wales battling for the title and England vs Ireland deciding third place.

by beshocked Wed 15 Feb 2012, 4:13 pm

I have a funny feeling England could win the 6 nations with the grand slam.

Written off against Scotland and Italy. Both beaten. Written off against Wales,Ireland and France...

by Morgannwg Wed 15 Feb 2012, 4:13 pm

Fourth. Unnecessary but generous to include other options hehe Wink

.

by Rory_Gallagher Wed 15 Feb 2012, 4:15 pm

I think because of the other thread however most people will go for 1st since the other thread was so stupid.

Realistically I feel this tournament is going to be France's. We still haven't really got to see them in full flow however. I don't think anyone can match the talent in their back-line, and the their forwards are monstrous. Nobody is as good a ball carrier as Picamoles atm. Nor as good an off-loader.

by miteyironpaw Wed 15 Feb 2012, 4:19 pm

I don't believe it's logistically possible for England to finish 5th or 6th now. Are these option just skewing the poll? Should they be removed?

by damngoodOvalball Wed 15 Feb 2012, 4:32 pm

Morgannwg wrote:Fourth. Unnecessary but generous to include other options hehe .

It would be generous of Wales to give up their standard 4th place as they evidently enjoy it so much that they usually end up there (on average)

by Morgannwg Wed 15 Feb 2012, 4:46 pm

Yeah, we do tend to enjoy 4th place seeing as that is where we finished in our last competitive tournament, the world cup (higher than England).

mitey, apparently these polls have to include every single option available. I tend to agree with you to an extent though. I deemed it unlikely for England to finish 1st or 2nd so neglected to include them as voting options back on my topic. Needless to say, bias took over and the poll was skewed.

by miteyironpaw Wed 15 Feb 2012, 4:48 pm

Steady on Morgannwg, the mods have warned not to discuss the previous thread in this thread. You don't want to pick up a ban over something so silly.

Presumably if you want to discuss another thread you'll have to set up a new thread to discuss it in.

Although also presumably if you wanted a thread to discuss where England would finish assuming they didn't finish 1st or 2nd, then I can't see why you wouldn't be allowed to create poll that contained the options 3-6 since that would be the full range of options for the topic you were considering.

I feel the winner of the 6N will be either Wales or England. This is because of the rescheduling of the Ireland/France game and the permutations left to play out. So whomever wins next weekend is likely to claim the whole tournament. And I personally think that will be England.

That aside the requirement to contain every option is going to create logistical havok for polls such as "who is the greatest 13 in the world", since that would involve listing every single player, playing 13 in the entire world...tricky.

Or "which is the greatest try" for example, similarly difficult.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 15 Feb 2012, 4:50 pm

Morgannwg wrote:Yeah, we do tend to enjoy 4th place seeing as that is where we finished in our last competitive tournament, the world cup (higher than England).

mitey, apparently these polls have to include every single option available. I tend to agree with you to an extent though. I deemed it unlikely for England to finish 1st or 2nd so neglected to include them as voting options back on my topic. Needless to say, bias took over and the poll was skewed.

Morgan, do you realise how silly you sound? A genuine poll would include ALL the options (ie from first to sixth), so in fact it was your original one that was biased - you might consider thanking the kind mod for fixing your error?

by Morgannwg Wed 15 Feb 2012, 4:57 pm

mitey, you brought up the possible skewing of a poll and I merely provided you with an example. Had everybody listened to Morg the bickering on that former thread could have been avoided Very Happy

.

I have voted on this current poll and to go back over what I originally said, here is my reasoning behind my vote; This is an interesting and new look England team far from the finished article. Their front 5 is good and very strong. Behind that I think that they have little to offer at this moment in time. The back-row isn't bad but it is an area of great strength for their next three opponents. Ben Morgan is the stand out player for me, Robshaw I feel is average, Croft is good but not at his best right now. The halfbacks are pretty average, including the likes of Flood who is set to return to the team for round 3. The midfield is one dimensional and lacking in skill going forward. A lot hinders on the return of the mighty Tuilagi. The back 3; Foden is class but is capable of bad off days, the wings are inexperienced apart from Ashton who is 'found out.' Any team that can match England in the scrums, nullify Tuilagi and not kick loosely as the wingers just pass it back inside to Foden who is a real threat shall keep England at a low score. Defence so far has condeded two tries, which were lucky ones, but against poor attacking teams.

Also, Ireland are a slightly more settled unit and as the tournament goes on I think they are in a better place to progress than England. France and Wales have more firepower up front and in the backs. Of course, each still has to perform to the best of their ability on the field.

by miteyironpaw Wed 15 Feb 2012, 4:59 pm

On the topic of poll correctness though, surely these polls:

"https://www.606v2.com/t23362-wales-vs-scotland-sunday-12th-february-ko-1500-gonna-be-a-classic"

Should have included the additional option:

[d] Neither, the game will be called off due to a frozen pitch
[e] No spectators will witness the match, thus both will have simultaneous lost and won and drawn, but this will not be resolved until the outcome is observed.
[f] The game will be interrupted by a meteor strike
[g] ...

How unlikely does an option have to be before it can be omitted from a poll?

by eirebilly Wed 15 Feb 2012, 4:59 pm

I have gone for third. I think that England will beat Ireland but lose to Wales and France.

by **rodders** Wed 15 Feb 2012, 5:02 pm

eirebilly wrote:I have gone for third. I think that England will beat Ireland but lose to Wales and France.

+ 1

by english warrior Wed 15 Feb 2012, 5:04 pm

Morganweg- 'Yeah We tend to enjoy 4th place seeing as that is where we finished in our last competitive world cup (higher than England)

Well done, so thats 1987 and 2011, with all the ones in between where England finished above you ,having been in 3 finals and actually winning 1.

So is 4th place, that Good a position ? especially where you lost 3 games against the good teams and beat 3 that were dross and a declining Irish team that seemed clueless.

Now the question was where will England finish this year, was it not, and i can see them winning at least another one or two, and losing to France, but i could be wrong, but hey you won't just have Egg on your face after all the bile you have spewed against England, you'll have a 5 Egg omelette! laughing

by eirebilly Wed 15 Feb 2012, 5:05 pm

I really hated writing that rodders Sad

by **rodders** Wed 15 Feb 2012, 5:08 pm

eirebilly wrote:I really hated writing that rodders

Not as much as I hated +1ing it Billy! Sad

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed 15 Feb 2012, 5:16 pm

Right, now that several of you have had sly little digs about the last thread, how about we all grow up a bit and chat about some rugby

England have 3 home games left in the tournament. While granted they are playing the 3 stongest teams of their 5 matches, I can't see them losing 3 home games on the bounce.

Wales will be slight favourites in their match (they're playing better, but there is the Twickers factor). England at home will be slight favourites against Ireland, while (cliche time) who knows which French team will turn up.

So my pick is second or third.

by flankertye Wed 15 Feb 2012, 5:19 pm

3rd. Annoyingly I can see Wales getting a slam and france coming second.

by majesticimperialman Wed 15 Feb 2012, 5:21 pm

I too think that who ever wins next week end between Wales and England will win the tournament.

I do believe that the game between England v Wales will be a tough game, but i do believe that England will win. I do not think that their will be Grand Slam. But would love to be proved wrong on that. thumbsup

by damngoodOvalball Wed 15 Feb 2012, 5:34 pm

Morgannwg wrote:Yeah, we do tend to enjoy 4th place seeing as that is where we finished in our last competitive tournament, the world cup (higher than England).

Yes, HUGE congratulations on your 4th place finish!!!! Helluva result...keep banging the drum!
So you're still celebrating the fact that they won nothing back in NZ?

Having said that reaching the dizzying heights of a semi final must be a, well, dizzying experience for a Welsh fan! As most Welsh fans rightly pointed out in 2007, we actually won just as much as they did in the 2007 RWC ie nothing, despite reaching the final compared to their group exit humiliation. We did at least beat the Aussies in that one though! Wales entertained in the RWC and did less bad than England, Ireland and Scotland. Fair play but does it really deserve so much celebration? You're out celebrating the kiwiw's - anyone would think you'd won the cup! x

by **Biltong** Wed 15 Feb 2012, 5:34 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:Good thread with a nice range of options. Something for everyone.

by damngoodOvalball Wed 15 Feb 2012, 5:41 pm

roddersm wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I really hated writing that rodders

Not as much as I hated +1ing it Billy!

some kind of complex Irish reverse psychology going down here....

by Rory_Gallagher Wed 15 Feb 2012, 5:42 pm

I think the irish are just fed up and depressed! I include myself there Sad

by damngoodOvalball Wed 15 Feb 2012, 5:46 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I think the irish are just fed up and depressed! I include myself there

yeah yeah yeah, whatever. I fell for it last year, never again

by **Biltong** Wed 15 Feb 2012, 5:46 pm

In theory it is more probable for England at this point to win the Six Nations than come sixth.

Why, because they have a better chance of beating Wales than Italy has. They also have a better chance of beating France than Scotland has.

Really is logic isn't it

by eirebilly Wed 15 Feb 2012, 5:46 pm

We are a naturally negative people damngoodOvalball Wink

by Rory_Gallagher Wed 15 Feb 2012, 5:48 pm

damngoodOvalball wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:I think the irish are just fed up and depressed! I include myself there

yeah yeah yeah, whatever. I fell for it last year, never again

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 15 Feb 2012, 5:50 pm

biltongbek wrote:In theory it is more probable for England at this point to win the Six Nations than come sixth.

Why, because they have a better chance of beating Wales than Italy has. They also have a better chance of beating France than Scotland has.

Really is logic isn't it

biltong, don't think that's logical tho? England must travel to Paris to play France, whereas Scotland have France at Murrayfield; add in that Scotland should have beaten England (had they managed to take all their chances and put territory & possession domination to good effect), and I'm not sure it follows?

by damngoodOvalball Wed 15 Feb 2012, 5:52 pm

eirebilly wrote:We are a naturally negative people damngoodOvalball

OK Billy, of course you can park your huge horse in Twickenham, go on then. Interesting looking horse by the way. Where's it from? Troy?

by **Biltong** Wed 15 Feb 2012, 6:01 pm

Asbo, all I am trying to point out is England's two toughest matches and compare it to the two teams that have lost two games already.

Both Italy AND Scotland has to win against those two oppoenets, plus ALL their other matches as well whilst England has to lose ALL three their remaining matches to end last.

That inturn means if Italy and Scotland both beat Wales, then France has a good chance of winning.

Realistically what are the odds?

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 15 Feb 2012, 6:06 pm

biltongbek wrote:Asbo, all I am trying to point out is England's two toughest matches and compare it to the two teams that have lost two games already.

Both Italy AND Scotland has to win against those two oppoenets, plus ALL their other matches as well whilst England has to lose ALL three their remaining matches to end last.

That inturn means if Italy and Scotland both beat Wales, then France has a good chance of winning.

Realistically what are the odds?

Right, I see where you were going, I'd lost the context of your comments, apologies

by gelodge Wed 15 Feb 2012, 6:08 pm

Morgannwg wrote:Had everybody listened to Morg the bickering on that former thread could have been avoided

If there isn't a forum rule on referring to yourself in the third person and with a nickname, I think there should be.

Children who fail to grow out of the "monarchic" phase of intellectual development and into the "dualistic" phase may become narcissistic throughout their lives. They may effectively intellectualize and rationalize their behavior, but their inability to view situations from perspectives other than their own causes them to also become abusive or coldly detached when challenged, and to react with rage and indignance when denied or thwarted in some way.

Paradoxically, the tendency of narcissists to refer to themselves in the third person stems from precisely this inability. When asked to explain their ill-conceived actions or describe their negative emotions, narcissists usually refuse to take responsibility for them. Instead, they blame others, often by composing narratives featuring a suspiciously-autobiographical "fictitious" character who understands everything, is a world-renowned expert in whatever subject is germane to the issue at hand, and whose authority is therefore unquestioned.

by **Biltong** Wed 15 Feb 2012, 6:13 pm

gelodge wrote:
Morgannwg wrote:Had everybody listened to Morg the bickering on that former thread could have been avoided

If there isn't a forum rule on referring to yourself in the third person and with a nickname, I think there should be.

Children who fail to grow out of the "monarchic" phase of intellectual development and into the "dualistic" phase may become narcissistic throughout their lives. They may effectively intellectualize and rationalize their behavior, but their inability to view situations from perspectives other than their own causes them to also become abusive or coldly detached when challenged, and to react with rage and indignance when denied or thwarted in some way.

Paradoxically, the tendency of narcissists to refer to themselves in the third person stems from precisely this inability. When asked to explain their ill-conceived actions or describe their negative emotions, narcissists usually refuse to take responsibility for them. Instead, they blame others, often by composing narratives featuring a suspiciously-autobiographical "fictitious" character who understands everything, is a world-renowned expert in whatever subject is germane to the issue at hand, and whose authority is therefore unquestioned.

Top diagnosis mate, your cheque is in the mail. Laugh

by **rodders** Wed 15 Feb 2012, 6:25 pm

damngoodOvalball wrote:
roddersm wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I really hated writing that rodders

Not as much as I hated +1ing it Billy!

some kind of complex Irish reverse psychology going down here....

Reverese psychology yer arse ...lets see how positive you feel after those smug Welsh feckers beat you on your own patch.... furious

by HammerofThunor Wed 15 Feb 2012, 6:34 pm

Well, we won't even have the cushion of two dubious ref calls

by Morgannwg Wed 15 Feb 2012, 6:41 pm

damngoodOvalball, I was not celebrating Wales fourth place. Was there anything that lead you to belive that? Between us I think you were the ecstatic one if your comment is anything to go by Smile

.

However, to get back on topic and ignore the childish and off topic comments; two tries (from lucky chargedowns) in two games (against the weaker teams) and some of you believe you can win the 6 Nations?

confused.com

by Cowshot Wed 15 Feb 2012, 7:01 pm

well, we might beat your lads at Twickers. You are favourites, but upsets have been known, so definitely not impossible. The Irish look a touch vulnerable at present (admittedly hard to be sure after one game) so maybe that's winnable too; which leaves the French. And you can never predict the French, so who knows?

Yaaay! England Slam! Yahoo

4th most likely. If we can nobble an out of sorts Ireland 3rd, but well, it'll be a hell of a result if we do 2nd or better.

by EnglishReign Wed 15 Feb 2012, 7:04 pm

Morgan, you make the assumption that the same group of players will start every game. The Jeff player of last month isn't even in the EPS ffs.

by yappysnap Wed 15 Feb 2012, 7:05 pm

I'm expecting the top two spots to be battled out between France and Wales. But then for all we know France could be shoite, they have after all only beaten Italy and Wales could lose three on the bounce if the refs calls suddenly go agaisnt them.

I still predict a third place finish for England though.

by robbo277 Wed 15 Feb 2012, 9:13 pm

I think England are in a somewhat advantageous position here.

We've got Wales at home which will be tough, but it is at home and if we play well it is winnable.

Then we get a week off and France and Ireland have their rescheduled fixture. So we get two weeks to prepare for France away, while France will just get the one week. Then we get Ireland at home when Ireland will be playing their fourth week on the bounce.

We'll have to play better than we have been, but I think we are just as likely to win the next three as we are to lose the next 3. More likely that we'll win 1 or 2 though.

by EnglishReign Wed 15 Feb 2012, 9:30 pm

It's winnable against Wales and Ireland. Think England will win one. For what it's worth think England will get 3rd as well.

by majesticimperialman Wed 15 Feb 2012, 9:50 pm

I voted for England to finish in first place.How ever i realy dont mind where England finish, as long as we finish above Wales.

Why, well for the last 2 years i have been having a bet with a Welsh friend that England will finish above Wales, and for the last 2 years i have won both times, so 3 in a row, i will take that evry time. Yahoo

by tatterd Wed 15 Feb 2012, 10:21 pm

Kiwireddevil wrote:
Right, now that several of you have had sly little digs about the last thread, how about we all grow up a bit and chat about some rugby

England have 3 home games left in the tournament. While granted they are playing the 3 stongest teams of their 5 matches, I can't see them losing 3 home games on the bounce.

Wales will be slight favourites in their match (they're playing better, but there is the Twickers factor). England at home will be slight favourites against Ireland, while (cliche time) who knows which French team will turn up.

So my pick is second or third.

England have 3 home games left? Is that a home game in Paris on super sat then? You're a bleedin mod as well! Eng will beat us (Wales) next week as we're still not mentally strong enough (quite). But will lose to Ire and France - AWAY!

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed 15 Feb 2012, 10:31 pm

tatterd wrote:
Kiwireddevil wrote:

England have 3 home games left in the tournament. While granted they are playing the 3 stongest teams of their 5 matches, I can't see them losing 3 home games on the bounce.

Wales will be slight favourites in their match (they're playing better, but there is the Twickers factor). England at home will be slight favourites against Ireland, while (cliche time) who knows which French team will turn up.

So my pick is second or third.
England have 3 home games left? Is that a home game in Paris on super sat then? You're a bleedin mod as well! Eng will beat us (Wales) next week as we're still not mentally strong enough (quite). But will lose to Ire and France - AWAY!

You can't expect a poor neutral to pay attention to every nuance of the tournament that decides 5th place on the world rankings can you Wink

by Hound_of_Harrow Wed 15 Feb 2012, 10:34 pm

"England have 3 home games left in the tournament. While granted they are playing the 3 stongest teams of their 5 matches, I can't see them losing 3 home games on the bounce."

As has been pointed out, England have France away. Each year England and Wales have the reverse of each others' fixtures. This year England play away at all the teams who play in blue, and have the other two at home. For Wales it's the other way round.

I think England are realistically looking at third if we can beat Ireland at Twickenham (who have a very good recent record there). From what I have seen so far, an obdurate defence and, not much else, will not see us past Wales or France.

Lancaster definitely needs to bring in the experience of Flood, the line breaking ability of Tuilagi, and the tackling and handling of Lawes for Wales for us to have a chance in that one.

by bluestonevedder Thu 16 Feb 2012, 9:35 am

I can see England finishing 3rd,and Wales getting the Grand Slam if i'm honest. France finishing second, and Scotland just beating Italy in a close-fought game. Italy for the spoon.

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Where will England finsih in the 6 Nations?