Should Andy Robinson go after this 6 nations? (Third vote)

by R!skysports Wed 15 Feb 2012, 5:42 pm

So before the first round we have the results of the poll

Round 1 2
Yes 25% 55%
No 30% 20%
Depends if Scotland finish higher that 2nd last 44% 24%

So how has the Wales match affected the results?

by Shifty Wed 15 Feb 2012, 6:09 pm

It's a results driven business, and to be honest he does come across as a decent bloke at times, and I enjoy watching his emotion, but lets be honest his record as a coach is poor. England were a shambles under him and as Scotland coach your always reduced to trying to avoid the wooden spoon by beating Italy. The World Cup was poor, and if Scotland are going to take the next step you will need someone with a fresh perspective.

Sean Lineen would be the obvious choice, Glasgow have done brilliantly in the Rabo Direct this season and play good rugby using their backs. That is Scotlands weakness, you have enough forwards but the backs need to be sorted out.

by 123456789 Wed 15 Feb 2012, 6:19 pm

Keep him until after the summer tour, let's see how he does with Visser, Hogg, Jones, Scott, Weir, Laidlaw, Denton, Harley, Macinally, Gilchrist and Shiells. He's a good coach and let's see what Townsend, Johnson and Robinson can do together. We'll be getting a new defence coach soon...

by TJ1 Wed 15 Feb 2012, 8:14 pm

Once again

I never wanted him as coach - he failed before

I wanted him to resign after the WC where Scotland played poorly and below their potential
After selecting Parks it just became more obvious

He must go

by red_stag Wed 15 Feb 2012, 8:23 pm

I say no.

The team is moving forward.

by WelshinEdinburgh Wed 15 Feb 2012, 8:26 pm

123456789 wrote:Keep him until after the summer tour, let's see how he does with Visser, Hogg, Jones, Scott, Weir, Laidlaw, Denton, Harley, Macinally, Gilchrist and Shiells. He's a good coach and let's see what Townsend, Johnson and Robinson can do together. We'll be getting a new defence coach soon...

He has to pick them first, is that not his problem, changes are usually forced changes, the man won't take a chance.

by MacKnocked-on Wed 15 Feb 2012, 9:04 pm

I'm interested in who people think should replace Andy Robinson if he were to leave? My personal opinion is that Scotland have made great strides in the right direction under Robinson, we are now a very difficult team to beat unlike the teams of recent years who often took real thrashings. Remember Wales and Ireland were in the same situation not so long ago and things are certainly different for them now. If we continue to improve as we are presently then we will start to win more games, of that I am sure.
At least we are now moaning about losing games we should have won.

by Shifty Wed 15 Feb 2012, 9:13 pm

He will never resign because he will never get another cushy job like this again. He is well paid and Scotland have 10 games or so a season.

no other country would take a punt on him, you might get a second chance (after failing with England), but his achievements with Scotland are nothing to write home about.

Where it matters, the World Cup, the 6 Nations his record is poor.

by TJ1 Wed 15 Feb 2012, 9:26 pm

MacKnocked-on wrote:I'm interested in who people think should replace Andy Robinson if he were to leave? My personal opinion is that Scotland have made great strides in the right direction under Robinson, we are now a very difficult team to beat unlike the teams of recent years who often took real thrashings. Remember Wales and Ireland were in the same situation not so long ago and things are certainly different for them now. If we continue to improve as we are presently then we will start to win more games, of that I am sure.
At least we are now moaning about losing games we should have won.

No we have not

One win a year in the 6 N. failure at teh WC, dropping to 11 in the world?

Its his continual failure to select the right teams tho.

he simply is not an international coach. He is holding the team back badly with conservative selections

by red_stag Wed 15 Feb 2012, 9:44 pm

Is the Scotland job really "cushy"????

by Taffineastbourne Wed 15 Feb 2012, 9:54 pm

Being Scotland's coach he probably goes 3 or 4 times during each match!

by IanBru Wed 15 Feb 2012, 10:05 pm

I'm tired of calling for the coach's head before we have the remotest idea of who would replace him. We did it with Hadden - we complained endlessly until, lo and behold, he departed and the SRU had to magic an international standard coach out of thin air.

We can argue as much as we want over Robinson's apparent failings, but unless we have a realistic candidate to replace him, we're just pissing in the wind. We were lucky in 2009 that Robinson was waiting in the wings, but we're in a much weaker position now. So, a simple question:

Who is GOOD who could replace Robinson?

Craig Chalmers? Undoubted skill, but NO top level experience, and he is completely mental.
Mike Bradley? Has fired Edinburgh to the Heino QFs by playing attractive rugby; might be holding out to succeed Declan Kidney.
Sean Lineen? Has brought a consistency to Glasgow's performances, and is good at working with meagre resources; might signal a return to the 10 man style of play that Scotland are trying to avoid.

Nick Mallet? Stuart Lancaster? Jim Telfer? Geech? The mediocrity/outmodedness of some of the international candidates is a bit shocking, really.

by Shifty Wed 15 Feb 2012, 10:06 pm

red_stag wrote:Is the Scotland job really "cushy"????

Martin Johnson wins the 6 nations, and wins 10 games out of 13 in a season and loses his job.

If Scotland win 3 games a season they have done very well...
Where else can any coach do so badly in results terms, and stay in a job?

by fa0019 Wed 15 Feb 2012, 10:24 pm

The question shouldn't be should he go... rather 'is there anyone of note who would be able to do a better job'?

No point sacking a guy (costing a significant financial penalty for a already bankrupt (near) union) and then spending cash we don't have on a hope that somehow someone will do better.

He is a very good coach and if he still holds respect in the dressing room he has to stay whether or not he loses every game in the rest of the 6N.

If he can't motivate the players any longer then perhaps it would be time to move on.... but I doubt anyone would want the job... our union has no cash, the no. of players he will have to work with is threadbare and the union itself is constantly at war with themselves.

PS - MJ lost his job because he obviously lost the dressing room. No one and I mean no one would dare sip an orange juice on Jim Telfer's watch without him approving of it first.
Amazing really as you would have thought the last person any one of the players would dare cross would be MJ.

by TJ1 Wed 15 Feb 2012, 11:30 pm

IanBru wrote:I'm tired of calling for the coach's head before we have the remotest idea of who would replace him. We did it with Hadden - we complained endlessly until, lo and behold, he departed and the SRU had to magic an international standard coach out of thin air.

.

I would go for a young ambitious antipodean someone who wants to make a name. Alternativly Redpath maybe?

Not a coach who has already failed at international level

by Huwball Wed 15 Feb 2012, 11:58 pm

I say keep him.... some people seem to forget that Mr Gatlands tenure hasn't been all glory - we struggled to get a win for quite a long time (apart from our GS). Look at the summer tours and Autumn internationals Scotland have played over the last 3 years - how many times can you play Argentina? I think Wales have improved because we played the All Blacks so many times - yes we got humped all the time but we seemed to improve with every game.

Scotland are almost there - I personally think it is clearly visible - all you need is a couple of exciting players coming through and hey presto - it will click and your team will be complete Yahoo

It happened for Wales so no reason it won't for you guys.

However, I think Scotland should sack whoever appointed Scott Johnson as he obviously can't do much - look at the Ospreys. Or is this a ploy by the WRU to set Scotland back even further Very Happy

by TJ1 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 12:07 am

11th in the world - of course we are doing better Rolling Eyes

by flyhalffactory Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:35 am

TJ wrote:11th in the world - of course we are doing better

TJ
Results.............Such a short sighted approach to what we are achieving lately

We are competing during the matches ......... we were unlucky against England, and but for a few poor refs decisions who knows how the match would have gone against Wales, our 8,7,6 of Denton, Rennie, Stroko were arguably better than the famed Welsh back row forwards, and with Laidlaw gaining experience, and hopefully pairing up with Blair will provide us with a good platform for the great backs coming through including

15 Hogg
14 Jones
13 Jackson
12 Scott
11 Visser
Thats going to be a seriously fast and strong backline

10 Laidlaw
9 Blair
Could potentially be as good as any 6Ns combo

8 Denton
7 Rennie
6 McInally
Could potentially be as good as any 6Ns combo

................add to that
A team doing well
Strength in depth
Both Edinburgh and Glasgow doing reasonably well, some good interaction with ARs view on the SRU process
Very limited resources to work with

Alyn
Looking at results with a slanted view to prove your point doesnt work................. lets look at performances against SH opposition "true view of how well we are doing" ahem!!

We have achieved considerably more against SH opposition than you guys have achieved with Mr G
Australia, SA, Argentina all have lost against Scotland under ARs tenure
Can you say the same under Ms Gatland reign over the same period

We can look at performance in so many different ways

I say look at ARs position after the Autum internationals when we have Visser on tow

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 16 Feb 2012, 7:02 am

IanBru wrote:I'm tired of calling for the coach's head before we have the remotest idea of who would replace him. We did it with Hadden - we complained endlessly until, lo and behold, he departed and the SRU had to magic an international standard coach out of thin air.

We can argue as much as we want over Robinson's apparent failings, but unless we have a realistic candidate to replace him, we're just pissing in the wind. We were lucky in 2009 that Robinson was waiting in the wings, but we're in a much weaker position now. So, a simple question:

Who is GOOD who could replace Robinson?

Craig Chalmers? Undoubted skill, but NO top level experience, and he is completely mental.
Mike Bradley? Has fired Edinburgh to the Heino QFs by playing attractive rugby; might be holding out to succeed Declan Kidney.
Sean Lineen? Has brought a consistency to Glasgow's performances, and is good at working with meagre resources; might signal a return to the 10 man style of play that Scotland are trying to avoid.

Nick Mallet? Stuart Lancaster? Jim Telfer? Geech? The mediocrity/outmodedness of some of the international candidates is a bit shocking, really.

Ian, am confused as to why you need to have a replacement to hand before letting someone go, surely that would open up a claim for constructive dismissal, and that could get financially v v expensive?

Of the candidates you mention, Chick may be mental, but that is just a very driven, Telferesque desire to win coming from a typical Borders rugby man. Basil Redpath (with Carl Hogg) would be another team that I would give serious consideration to, doing well at Glaws, highly thought of

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 16 Feb 2012, 7:23 am

flyhalffactory wrote:
TJ wrote:11th in the world - of course we are doing better

TJ
Results.............Such a short sighted approach to what we are achieving lately

We are competing during the matches ......... we were unlucky against England, and but for a few poor refs decisions who knows how the match would have gone against Wales, our 8,7,6 of Denton, Rennie, Stroko were arguably better than the famed Welsh back row forwards, and with Laidlaw gaining experience, and hopefully pairing up with Blair will provide us with a good platform for the great backs coming through including

15 Hogg
14 Jones
13 Jackson
12 Scott
11 Visser
Thats going to be a seriously fast and strong backline

10 Laidlaw
9 Blair
Could potentially be as good as any 6Ns combo

8 Denton
7 Rennie
6 McInally
Could potentially be as good as any 6Ns combo

................add to that
A team doing well
Strength in depth
Both Edinburgh and Glasgow doing reasonably well, some good interaction with ARs view on the SRU process
Very limited resources to work with

Alyn
Looking at results with a slanted view to prove your point doesnt work................. lets look at performances against SH opposition "true view of how well we are doing" ahem!!

We have achieved considerably more against SH opposition than you guys have achieved with Mr G
Australia, SA, Argentina all have lost against Scotland under ARs tenure
Can you say the same under Ms Gatland reign over the same period

We can look at performance in so many different ways

I say look at ARs position after the Autum internationals when we have Visser on tow

fhf, I know what you mean about performances seeming to pick up, but thats too many shoulda/woulda/coulda's for my liking. The only things that matter are the numbers in the W column and the ranking - we cannot judge ourselves by anything else (just look at the ABs for example, not content with amazing performances,#1 in the world, they needed to win the world cup to prove to themselves how good they were as much as anything else. There are all the reasons you ention to be cheerful, but selection-wise, I fear Robinson's innate conservatism

by eirebilly Thu 16 Feb 2012, 7:29 am

Havent Scotland been promicing for a few years now? It seems to me that i have been saying that Scotland are a good side who make breaks but just lack the composure to score at times. I have been saying this for nearly 3 years....

Surely sometime Scotland will click is another thing i have been saying for nearly 3 years.

Something has to change before Scotland click i feel.

by Huwball Thu 16 Feb 2012, 7:39 am

Billy, it has... they've appointed Scott Johnson laughing

by eirebilly Thu 16 Feb 2012, 8:03 am

Huwball wrote:Billy, it has... they've appointed Scott Johnson

by TJ1 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 8:08 am

AsLongAsBut100ofUs

Its not short sighted the Robinson years show a steady decline in world ranking, a poor performance at the WC, very few wins in competitive games.

Yes we have good players coming thru = good players that Robninson does not want to play. Laidlaw would not have got a game had Parks not retired / Jackson been fit.
Hogg only came in because of Injury.

Robinsons selections and substitutions in the WC cost us games. How can you be satisfied with a world ranking of 11 and so few wins in competitive games?

When a team plays below its potential, when there are obvious mistakes in selection then the coach has to carry the can.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 16 Feb 2012, 8:42 am

TJ wrote:AsLongAsBut100ofUs

Its not short sighted the Robinson years show a steady decline in world ranking, a poor performance at the WC, very few wins in competitive games.

Yes we have good players coming thru = good players that Robninson does not want to play. Laidlaw would not have got a game had Parks not retired / Jackson been fit.
Hogg only came in because of Injury.

Robinsons selections and substitutions in the WC cost us games. How can you be satisfied with a world ranking of 11 and so few wins in competitive games?

When a team plays below its potential, when there are obvious mistakes in selection then the coach has to carry the can.

TJ, sorry, bud, missing the connection - what's 'not short-sighted'?

Think that you and I are broadly in agreement

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 16 Feb 2012, 8:43 am

Huwball wrote:Billy, it has... they've appointed Scott Johnson

naughty, Huw Laugh

by TJ1 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 8:44 am

AsLongAsBut100ofUs

Sorry - that should have been aimed at flyhalffactory who accused me of being short sighted. Replying to posts while half asleep

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 16 Feb 2012, 8:47 am

TJ wrote:AsLongAsBut100ofUs

Sorry - that should have been aimed at flyhalffactory who accused me of being short sighted. Replying to posts while half asleep

Nae worries

by R!skysports Thu 16 Feb 2012, 10:39 am

People keep mentioning our wins against the SH - yes, they were great, but in reality we were lucky as sin in the Ozzie game - I take the win, but we were the second best team by a huge margin

The SA game was in the artic with not a strong team agasinst us

Don't get me wrong, I was (and am) joyous of the wins but the crutch of the argument for me is....

For years we have had to select certain players because we had no choice - fair enough, you do your best - HOWEVER (and a big however so I put it in red) that is not the case just now

We have some great young players coming through and looking hungry - they are on form and winning matches - yet the coach is still picking players who have PROVED over the last 3 years they are not good enough

Almost every fan I spoke to before wanted to see the young players brought on and every one of them were willing to accept that we may lose the games, but it was worth it to try and develop talent -

Well AR chose to go with players out of form, at the end of their career and proved to not be good enough - and we still lost

The young players the pundits are saying was great that AR brought in only were brought in due to injuries and retirements - I.e. the coach had not clue and would not pick them if his old players were still around - I bet Hines would still be picked if he had not retired

HE LOST US THE GAMES IN THE WORLD CUP picking players a blind badger would know was wrong - HE DROPPED HIS CAPTAIN in a key match and we lost

We are outside the top 10

We have only won one match in the last few 6 nations
We only scored our ONE try in 5 games when the player he did not want to pick was FORCED onto him due to injuries and retirements

So his is INCAPABLE imo and should go

PS I am angry that another year has been wasted in expectation and what could have been furious

PLAY THE FORM PLAYERS and you can be forgiven for losing and player mistakes, as that happens

PLAY THE OUT OF FORM PLAYERS and you reap what you sow

by funnyExiledScot Thu 16 Feb 2012, 10:40 am

IanBru wrote:Nick Mallet? Stuart Lancaster? Jim Telfer? Geech? The mediocrity/outmodedness of some of the international candidates is a bit shocking, really.

What's mediocre and outmoded about Nick Mallett. He would be an excellent replacement, particularly if his old chum Steve Meehan would agree to join him and coach the backs.

by TJ1 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 10:43 am

As riskysports say - I am too frustrated at the best opportunity to beat England lost by playing to net get beaten instead of playing to win

by funnyExiledScot Thu 16 Feb 2012, 10:46 am

The selection against France will be telling, to see whether he's learnt anything from the prior two games.

If he picks Barclay at 6, Rory Lamont at 15 (instead of Hogg) and Morrison on the bench (ahead of Matt Scott) then we'll have our answer.

by flyhalffactory Thu 16 Feb 2012, 11:36 am

TJ wrote:As riskysports say - I am too frustrated at the best opportunity to beat England lost by playing to net get beaten instead of playing to win

So you are saying AR never plays to win

I am as frustrated as you, and I am a big advocate of selecting on FORM, however its as obvious to anone that watches rugby on a regular basis, that an experienced head would have dropped kicked at least 3 attempts against Wales instead of moving the ball, that might have put us up by 6 pts going into the 2nd half ...... that a mighty difference in the mindset of the players

Secondly you just cant select on FORM entirely, I mean against England we had new combos (Lamont/NDL), and new players...... Denton, Jones etc, and players coming back from injuries Rory Lamont, can you imagine if we pick Hogg, Scott, Laidlaw in addition to these and got TROUNCED, then we would be hanging AR and co out to dry for bringing in too many inexperienced heads

Horses for course, and form, and potential, and experience should all be considered and on a game by game basis

If we were clearly the second best team and getting slammed by 20-30 pts in matches I would say yes, bring on the massive changes but we are not, its not the coaches fault, if our forwards knock on, continually lose the ball in contact, or Laidlaw couldnt ground the ball (England). or if the ref doesnt spot obvious pen try and yellow card (gethin Jenks for wales when Chunk lost the ball on the tryline) or the disallowed !! try (Wales)

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 11:55 am

The only thing thats changed is we have lost another match. His team changes seem forced rather than deliberatly considered.

Happy to see him go.

by flyhalffactory Thu 16 Feb 2012, 12:07 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:The only thing thats changed is we have lost another match. His team changes seem forced rather than deliberatly considered.

Happy to see him go.

No the only thing thats remained the same is we have lost another match

Most coaches seem to operate in the same way (whether club, regional or provincial or international) usually forced by injury or results, and lets be honest he could have kept Parks, Morrison etc in the side but hasnt......... he has brought in Hogg, Jones, Denton amongst others all not forced changes.

Who would you have in instead?............ considering our limitations on resources

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 12:09 pm

I hear a lot of nonsense here, posters saying we have talent coming through and scotland has a bright future. It'll only be bright if AR plays them, and he won't.

Right now we could have a backline of :

9. Blair
10. Laidlaw
11. S.Lamont
12. Scott
13. NDL
14. Jones
15. Hogg

Based around an Edinburgh side that cut teams to pieces in the HC but Robinson just isn't doing it.

I have said on many threads how he could have sat at Murrayfield for Edinburgh V London Irish and pick any other player to fill his backline? Replace Visser with S. Lamont and Thompson with Hogg.

How hard can it be?

All those wanting AR to stay are crazy, we are outside the top 10 and untill the Wales game had not scored a try for 4 matches.

Do those wanting Robinson to stay think that this is acceptable? Playing Parks is acceptable? Tollerating an attack coach who says not scoring tries is acceptable? Is playing a winger at inside centre when we have genuinly talented inside Centres who are not getting a chance acceptable?

Come on guys! Wins against the Argies and some southern hemisphere scalps can't paper over the cracks of the crumbling Robinson regime. I'm not sure how much longer I can take the caption "we are almost there". Hadden said that long before Robinson was saying it.

Forget "We are almost there". WE ARE THERE if that numpty picks the right players in their correct positions!

FHF
Who would I have instead? Dunno, what I do know is I could do a better job at selecting than Robinson! My realistic targets would be Redpath, Mallet, Chalmbers possibly Bradley. Blackadder would be perfect but I think he has unfinished buisness in New Zealand.

by 123456789 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 12:11 pm

He is a very good coach, since he came we have only lost one game by more than 20 points and we have not been thrashed in the six nations; his selection is far too conservative however I heard an interview in which he spoke of evolution over revolution, perhaps he will have brought them in by the end of the tournament.
We need to stop blaming referees, it happens to every team. The refs are human and mistakes will happen we need to be good enough to win regardless of the referee.

by red_stag Thu 16 Feb 2012, 12:26 pm

AlynDavies wrote:
red_stag wrote:Is the Scotland job really "cushy"????

Martin Johnson wins the 6 nations, and wins 10 games out of 13 in a season and loses his job.

If Scotland win 3 games a season they have done very well...
Where else can any coach do so badly in results terms, and stay in a job?

Easy. Ireland.

by flyhalffactory Thu 16 Feb 2012, 12:43 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I hear a lot of nonsense here, posters saying we have talent coming through and scotland has a bright future. It'll only be bright if AR plays them, and he won't.

Right now we could have a backline of :

9. Blair
10. Laidlaw
11. S.Lamont
12. Scott
13. NDL
14. Jones
15. Hogg
Based around an Edinburgh side that cut teams to pieces in the HC but Robinson just isn't doing it.

I have said on many threads how he could have sat at Murrayfield for Edinburgh V London Irish and pick any other player to fill his backline? Replace Visser with S. Lamont and Thompson with Hogg.

How hard can it be?

All those wanting AR to stay are crazy, we are outside the top 10 and untill the Wales game had not scored a try for 4 matches.

Do those wanting Robinson to stay think that this is acceptable? Playing Parks is acceptable? Tollerating an attack coach who says not scoring tries is acceptable? Is playing a winger at inside centre when we have genuinly talented inside Centres who are not getting a chance acceptable?

Come on guys! Wins against the Argies and some southern hemisphere scalps can't paper over the cracks of the crumbling Robinson regime. I'm not sure how much longer I can take the caption "we are almost there". Hadden said that long before Robinson was saying it.

Forget "We are almost there". WE ARE THERE if that numpty picks the right players in their correct positions!

FHF
Who would I have instead? Dunno, what I do know is I could do a better job at selecting than Robinson! My realistic targets would be Redpath, Mallet, Chalmbers possibly Bradley. Blackadder would be perfect but I think he has unfinished buisness in New Zealand.

Hold I dont get this.........
He has selected everyone that you have wanted with the exception of Scott Rolling Eyes

....... So what are you saying?, that he hasn't selected them?

I don't want to bang on about this BUT

England - We arguably were the better side, but Mistakes, Mistakes, Mistakes.... particularly our forwards, Laidlaw missed an eay one, and also didnt ground the try, you cant blame the coaching setup for that

AR did well for us when he coached and many of the players you advocate for the games against France were brought in through the youth system by Robbo

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 12:55 pm

Has AR coached a game with Scotland with all the form player starting and noone playing out of position? ASBO that's a question for you mate! You're the one who would be happy to trawl through the stats!

You are right too FHF that the coaches can't be blamed for mistakes made by players, he can be blamed for picking those players in the 1st place. Parks immediatly springs to mind who was dragged kicking and screaming by most reports to play the match against England, when it could have been a differant game with Laidlaw starting.

I'm going to turn this over to you Flyhalf, do you think that Andy Robinson has selected the best players for the games he has been in charge of?

This is a thumbsup

or

question.

by TJ1 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 12:56 pm

Those guys should have started against England - then we might have won with attacking players capable of using the ball. .

11th in the world. that's the bottom line. its not good enough

How many competitive wins against top sides - not many at all.

The two losses n the WC were directly Robinsons fault - selection and substitutions.

by flyhalffactory Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:41 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Has AR coached a game with Scotland with all the form player starting and noone playing out of position? ASBO that's a question for you mate! You're the one who would be happy to trawl through the stats!

You are right too FHF that the coaches can't be blamed for mistakes made by players, he can be blamed for picking those players in the 1st place. Parks immediatly springs to mind who was dragged kicking and screaming by most reports to play the match against England, when it could have been a differant game with Laidlaw starting.

I'm going to turn this over to you Flyhalf, do you think that Andy Robinson has selected the best players for the games he has been in charge of?

This is a or question.

NO.......... thumbsdown

by flyhalffactory Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:43 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Has AR coached a game with Scotland with all the form player starting and noone playing out of position? ASBO that's a question for you mate! You're the one who would be happy to trawl through the stats!

You are right too FHF that the coaches can't be blamed for mistakes made by players, he can be blamed for picking those players in the 1st place. Parks immediatly springs to mind who was dragged kicking and screaming by most reports to play the match against England, when it could have been a differant game with Laidlaw starting.

I'm going to turn this over to you Flyhalf, do you think that Andy Robinson has selected the best players for the games he has been in charge of?

This is a or question.

NO..........

Back to you Rugger

Has any previous coach picked purely on FORM

by flyhalffactory Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:51 pm

TJ wrote:Those guys should have started against England - then we might have won with attacking players capable of using the ball. .

11th in the world. that's the bottom line. its not good enough

How many competitive wins against top sides - not many at all.

The two losses n the WC were directly Robinsons fault - selection and substitutions.

Thats tosh, Grieg came on for what 20-25 mins against England, there was no more try-scoring opportunities for other players made, deffo more direct tho and alot of running, mostly headless chicken tho, and we didnt score anymore points than when Desperate was on

We lost because our professional players were unprofessional in the breakdown and contact area mistake after mistake I was there for both matchs it was plainly obvious why we lost, and it was very little do do with Dan Parks, our backs lost the ball in contact area, distribution was poor or non-existant, and we couldnt ground the ball when the tryline gaped open wide and clear.

Now you can lead a horse............

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 16 Feb 2012, 1:59 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Has AR coached a game with Scotland with all the form player starting and noone playing out of position? ASBO that's a question for you mate! You're the one who would be happy to trawl through the stats!

You are right too FHF that the coaches can't be blamed for mistakes made by players, he can be blamed for picking those players in the 1st place. Parks immediatly springs to mind who was dragged kicking and screaming by most reports to play the match against England, when it could have been a differant game with Laidlaw starting.

I'm going to turn this over to you Flyhalf, do you think that Andy Robinson has selected the best players for the games he has been in charge of?

This is a or question.

NO..........

Back to you Rugger

Has any previous coach picked purely on FORM

Nope they sure haven't. Herin lies the problem, why have Williams, Hadden and now Robinson not picked the best players? The debate before the 6N started almost everyone in the Scottish Posting fraternity was on the same side! Sure there was an occiasional Weir instead of Laidlaw and a Hogg instead of R.Lamont at times but just about everybody had the same bones to the team. So what planet are the Scottish Coaches on?

The main differance Flyhalf is Williams and Hadden paid for their failures with their jobs. Robbo seems to be invulnerable at the moment.

I would like to say I'm fair. I wanted Hadden gone when it became obvious he couldn't hack it, why would I want to see Robinson continue when he looks out of his depth too.

What I want most from a coach is honesty. Robinson has not been honest about his selections or his reasons for picking players. Citing Parks' form of 2010 as a reason to pick him for the England is a perfect example of why he has to go.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:04 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Has AR coached a game with Scotland with all the form player starting and noone playing out of position? ASBO that's a question for you mate! You're the one who would be happy to trawl through the stats!

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I'm going to turn this over to you Flyhalf, do you think that Andy Robinson has selected the best players for the games he has been in charge of?

This is a or question.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:05 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I hear a lot of nonsense here, posters saying we have talent coming through and scotland has a bright future. It'll only be bright if AR plays them, and he won't.

Right now we could have a backline of :

9. Blair
10. Laidlaw
11. S.Lamont
12. Scott
13. NDL
14. Jones
15. Hogg
Based around an Edinburgh side that cut teams to pieces in the HC but Robinson just isn't doing it.

I have said on many threads how he could have sat at Murrayfield for Edinburgh V London Irish and pick any other player to fill his backline? Replace Visser with S. Lamont and Thompson with Hogg.

How hard can it be?

All those wanting AR to stay are crazy, we are outside the top 10 and untill the Wales game had not scored a try for 4 matches.

Do those wanting Robinson to stay think that this is acceptable? Playing Parks is acceptable? Tollerating an attack coach who says not scoring tries is acceptable? Is playing a winger at inside centre when we have genuinly talented inside Centres who are not getting a chance acceptable?

Come on guys! Wins against the Argies and some southern hemisphere scalps can't paper over the cracks of the crumbling Robinson regime. I'm not sure how much longer I can take the caption "we are almost there". Hadden said that long before Robinson was saying it.

Forget "We are almost there". WE ARE THERE if that numpty picks the right players in their correct positions!

FHF
Who would I have instead? Dunno, what I do know is I could do a better job at selecting than Robinson! My realistic targets would be Redpath, Mallet, Chalmbers possibly Bradley. Blackadder would be perfect but I think he has unfinished buisness in New Zealand.

Hold I dont get this.........
He has selected everyone that you have wanted with the exception of Scott ....... So what are you saying?, that he hasn't selected them?

I don't want to bang on about this BUT

England - We arguably were the better side, but Mistakes, Mistakes, Mistakes.... particularly our forwards, Laidlaw missed an eay one, and also didnt ground the try, you cant blame the coaching setup for that

AR did well for us when he coached and many of the players you advocate for the games against France were brought in through the youth system by Robbo

fhf, sorry, gonna have to call you on that one - who would they be exactly?

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 16 Feb 2012, 2:09 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
TJ wrote:Those guys should have started against England - then we might have won with attacking players capable of using the ball. .

11th in the world. that's the bottom line. its not good enough

How many competitive wins against top sides - not many at all.

The two losses n the WC were directly Robinsons fault - selection and substitutions.

Thats tosh, Grieg came on for what 20-25 mins against England, there was no more try-scoring opportunities for other players made, deffo more direct tho and alot of running, mostly headless chicken tho, and we didnt score anymore points than when Desperate was on

We lost because our professional players were unprofessional in the breakdown and contact area mistake after mistake I was there for both matchs it was plainly obvious why we lost, and it was very little do do with Dan Parks, our backs lost the ball in contact area, distribution was poor or non-existant, and we couldnt ground the ball when the tryline gaped open wide and clear.

Now you can lead a horse............

Bang on, fhf - S Lamont 14 runs with ball in hand, 1 pass - that's what comes of picking players out of position

by R!skysports Fri 17 Feb 2012, 12:05 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I hear a lot of nonsense here, posters saying we have talent coming through and scotland has a bright future. It'll only be bright if AR plays them, and he won't.

Right now we could have a backline of :

9. Blair
10. Laidlaw
11. S.Lamont
12. Scott
13. NDL
14. Jones
15. Hogg
Based around an Edinburgh side that cut teams to pieces in the HC but Robinson just isn't doing it.

I have said on many threads how he could have sat at Murrayfield for Edinburgh V London Irish and pick any other player to fill his backline? Replace Visser with S. Lamont and Thompson with Hogg.

How hard can it be?

All those wanting AR to stay are crazy, we are outside the top 10 and untill the Wales game had not scored a try for 4 matches.

Do those wanting Robinson to stay think that this is acceptable? Playing Parks is acceptable? Tollerating an attack coach who says not scoring tries is acceptable? Is playing a winger at inside centre when we have genuinly talented inside Centres who are not getting a chance acceptable?

Come on guys! Wins against the Argies and some southern hemisphere scalps can't paper over the cracks of the crumbling Robinson regime. I'm not sure how much longer I can take the caption "we are almost there". Hadden said that long before Robinson was saying it.

Forget "We are almost there". WE ARE THERE if that numpty picks the right players in their correct positions!

FHF
Who would I have instead? Dunno, what I do know is I could do a better job at selecting than Robinson! My realistic targets would be Redpath, Mallet, Chalmbers possibly Bradley. Blackadder would be perfect but I think he has unfinished buisness in New Zealand.

Hold I dont get this.........
He has selected everyone that you have wanted with the exception of Scott ....... So what are you saying?, that he hasn't selected them?

I don't want to bang on about this BUT

England - We arguably were the better side, but Mistakes, Mistakes, Mistakes.... particularly our forwards, Laidlaw missed an eay one, and also didnt ground the try, you cant blame the coaching setup for that

AR did well for us when he coached and many of the players you advocate for the games against France were brought in through the youth system by Robbo

The problem is, this back line was FORCED on him due to injuries and retirements - he DID NOT want to select them, he CHOSE to ignore them and go with a player that WANTED TO RETIRE

He is incompetent and has to go

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Sun 19 Feb 2012, 7:06 pm

Iain McLaughlin gave him the yellow card prior to this 6ns so unless we win the next 3 he is a goner. Good riddance too. How about Bradley and shade Munro?

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