Tennis section - Please read

First topic message reminder :

Following the introduction of the THASP article, the section has taken a massive backwards step.

Taking away the arguments, the digs and bickering, the topic in hand is putting off members from posting and new members from joining. There have been complaints submitted and e-mails received.

Therefore the article has been moved to our archive system and will not be returning to the section.

Going forward, all talk about PED's within tennis is not permitted. Any articles or posts about this subject will be deleted. Not only does it put off members (as mentioned above) but it will always revolve around one player. It is not healthy for the section, for the members or for this site.

Obviously some will not agree with this and we can not please everyone all of the time but the Admin have taken this decision for the good of the forum and for the tennis section in the long run. This is non negotiable.

YI

Makes me laugh how us 'Nadal fans' are told we know little about tennis. Also makes me laugh that he's called the death of tennis (thats a ridiculously short sighted opinion) when Djokovic plays almost the same way and the surfaces have been slowing long before Nadal came to prominence. Let Djokovic be called more talented when he's won more than 10 slams (or more than Nadal) and won a slam every year for 7 years running.

In general I believe the overall tone on balance of this forum is anti-Nadal and always has been. If you look at other forums, e.g. MTL, it's much more balanced. I for one will never write a thread on here extolling the virtues of Nadal's game because its tantamount to admitting you're from Sparta in the roman Coliseum. But by the same token I don't see why Nadal's talent and ability has to be constantly questioned and derided given what the guy has achieved the past 8 years. It's almost like Nadal fans are expected to justify why he's had the success he's had...so the default position is that fans don't want to post pro-Nadal threads (there aren't or haven't been many Nadal fans on here anyway - and even the way NITB states that people should post pro-Nadal threads is in the context of defence!) and in the anti-Nadal atmosphere revert only to defence against the usual tirade this highly successful and popular (beyond this forum) player receives.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

I support nadal because he is one if the most humble players in the world

"I think he is going to feel the pressure in his first Grand Slam final. If he plays like today then he is going to have his chances against either, but the truth is that I don't think that is his real level, he can't play like this every time." Nadal after losing badly to Tsonga

He was right though wasn't he? Telling it like it is, even Fed would have been proud of that one.

It's fine for NITB to have the opinion "Nadal is the death of tennis", it's not like she's going on about it. In the same way it's ok for other people to like or dislike Nadal. I don't think there's been much wrong with peoples' postings recently. Everyone seemed to be "debating" well enough (aside from the wum comments questioning who the author of the thread was).

when Djokovic plays almost the same way

Far superior backhand though

break_in_the_fifth wrote: Everyone seemed to be "debating" well enough (aside from the wum comments questioning who the author of the thread was).

Yes that was nonsense. Apparently I was not enough of a Nadal fan, or not a 'true Nadal fan' and hence it was not my article.

lydian wrote:Makes me laugh how us 'Nadal fans' are told we know little about tennis. Also makes me laugh that he's called the death of tennis (thats a ridiculously short sighted opinion) when Djokovic plays almost the same way and the surfaces have been slowing long before Nadal came to prominence. Let Djokovic be called more talented when he's won more than 10 slams (or more than Nadal) and won a slam every year for 7 years running.

In general I believe the overall tone on balance of this forum is anti-Nadal and always has been. If you look at other forums, e.g. MTL, it's much more balanced. I for one will never write a thread on here extolling the virtues of Nadal's game because its tantamount to admitting you're from Sparta in the roman Coliseum. But by the same token I don't see why Nadal's talent and ability has to be constantly questioned and derided given what the guy has achieved the past 8 years. It's almost like Nadal fans are expected to justify why he's had the success he's had...so the default position is that fans don't want to post pro-Nadal threads (there aren't or haven't been many Nadal fans on here anyway - and even the way NITB states that people should post pro-Nadal threads is in the context of defence!) and in the anti-Nadal atmosphere revert only to defence against the usual tirade this highly successful and popular (beyond this forum) player receives.

hawkeye wrote:
I have to defend aimrtia3ee here. I do agree that what happened on that toxic thread is happening here. However I think that aimrtia3ee sounds quite civilised. If you noted I also responded to some of the comments by noleisthebest but I chose to respond not in the civilised way that aimrtia3ee did but rather in the spirit of noleisthebests (or rather "ihaterafa") deliberately provocative, repetative and quite frankly childish comments.

The problem with the other thread IMO wasn't the discussion of drugs in tennis but the way it was turned into an "ihaterafa" thread. A few posters who's only interest in tennis appears to be to list all the things they dislike about this player over and over again. They kill any sort of discussion as others feel the need to respond to all the insults rather than discuss the topic. And others feel the need to just join in with the insults.
When all the dislike is thrown at one player and it is done so in such a way that it spams across all threads in a way that you can't read anything without hearing about how much certain posters dislike this player this site becomes like an anti fan club.

I would guess that most post here rather than on fan sites of individual players because they have a more general interest in tennis. For the same reason most (I hope) would not want to be members of an "anti fan club". How to stop it? Well at least aimria3ee is trying.

Yes Hawkeye, Lydian I see where you both of you are coming from.

Let's just sum up what happened last night:
NITB: first claimed that Nadal is the death of tennis. He then went on to patronisingly say how she 'could genuinely never understand how somoene would prefer Nadal to Federer and how she still doesn't 'understand it and despite my very open voicing of the opinion, no Nadal fan has EVER managed to answer straight.'

I answered with:
a) I explained why I am support Nadal- gave some of my reasons;
b) Said that I am not going to change who I support just because of NITB or anyone else on 606v2;
c) Acknowledged that although I support Nadal I recognise that there are many other great players and Djokovic is the rightly number 1 at the moment.

Laverfan:
Laverfan then had a go at me for 'disprespecting' other tennis players and attacked me by claiming that 606v2 is falling due to the fact I, not NITB, wass being disrespectful to other tennis players. Ridiculous.

Should we just discuss about tennis and tennis players, rather than about ourselves and each other?

Well its easy to say that after NITB says Nadal is the 'death of tennis' and Laverfan attacks me for 'direspecting other players'- a false claim.

Don't take too personal, it's just her opinion. If we all had the same opinion this forum would be rather boring wouldn't it?

prostaff85 wrote:Don't take too personal, it's just her opinion. If we all had the same opinion this forum would be rather boring wouldn't it?

you're waisting time Prostaff, some people here are not able to accept other people's opinion.

noleisthebest

Did you see my opinion about nole being the death of tennis. Also I don't think he's good looking. And also I think his fans are misguided and and don't really understand the game. They probably just support him because of his nationality.

GO RAFA!

And on that light-hearted (I think!) note from HE, unless anyone has anything further to add on the topic raised by YI Man in the OP, perhaps this thread can now softly wither on the vine.

JuliusHMarx

I'm with you on both counts. You are wearing that moderator cap well

amritia3ee wrote:
Laverfan then had a go at me for 'disprespecting' other tennis players and attacked me by claiming that 606v2 is falling due to the fact I, not NITB, wass being disrespectful to other tennis players. Ridiculous.

The problem lies on both sides, the attackers and the defenders. As NITB says, attackers and defenders, both need to become better debaters.

What did my earlier statement convey?

amritia3ee wrote:10 million lollipops?

Read Lydian's comment again.

I will go back to my Music analogy. Is Mozart better or Beethoven? To me both have produced some wonderful music. I can listen to both and enjoy both.

I do not need to defend either. Their music (aka accomplishments of Fedalovicurray in the Tennis courts is self-evident). Why is there a need to prove one better than the other?

(HE can I use here?)

I have no need to prove to anyone that my player is better than someone else?

I don't know- I just wonder whether people can't do one of the following in case they come across a different opinion-

(a) Evaluate it and come to the conclusion that it is illogical. Hence, ignore it, and not be irritated by it. Do not even respond to such posts.

(b) Evaluate it and come to the conclusion that it is logical. Accept the opinion and thank the poster for adding to one's knowledge by providing a new perspective.

(c) Realize that, sometimes, some things are subjective and the opinion is just a point of view, i.e. neither illogical nor logical. So there is no need to even evaluate it deeply. Just respect it and not be affected by it.

It's as simple as that. Why anyone would take offence is beyond me.

Tennisanorak wrote:I don't know- I just wonder whether people can't do one of the following in case they come across a different opinion-

(a) Evaluate it and come to the conclusion that it is illogical. Hence, ignore it, and not be irritated by it. Do not even respond to such posts.

(b) Evaluate it and come to the conclusion that it is logical. Accept the opinion and thank the poster for adding to one's knowledge by providing a new perspective.

(c) Realize that, sometimes, some things are subjective and the opinion is just a point of view, i.e. neither illogical nor logical. So there is no need to even evaluate it deeply. Just respect it and not be affected by it.

It's as simple as that. Why anyone would take offence is beyond me.

'c)' is where emotions get rattled. Logic is lost when this happens.

LF, maybe that's where the analogy between sports and music (one you are fond of) breaks down. I've never seen Beethoven and Mozart fans arguing about who was the GOAT. I suppose it is easier for people to agree to disagree about the arts because the greats don't engage in a contest with each other!

noleisthebest wrote:
you're waisting time Prostaff, some people here are not able to accept other people's opinion.

What BS are you talking now NITB, i just said i couldn't care less about your opinion. I support nadal, i have even stated my reasons, and i will continue to do so whatever your opinion is.
I'm not going to switch just because you don't agree with me.

laverfan wrote:
I have no need to prove to anyone that my player is better than someone else?

I think you're just taking the p8ss now. You just attacked me for disrespecting other players, just after NITB claimed nadal is the death of tennis. If anyone is disrespecting any player its definitely not me, who are you trying to fool. I have great respect for the current top 4, all great players.
Now you blame me for trying to prove Rafa is the best on this thread. You can read all the comments on this thread and I have never even talked about that. The irony is that NITB posted how she thinks 5-time Grand Slam Champion Djokovic is far better than Nadal etc. but you just ignored this.
Of course we all know that if I ever said something like 'Djokovic is the death of tennis' you like a vulture would immediately quote me and attack me for disrespecting other players, which would be fair, it's just a shame different posters have different rules on what they can do, depending on who they support.

OK, now I really think this thread should be left alone, before 'right of reply' spirals any further.

Maybe we can all google 'Beethoven vs Mozart' as a distraction.

If you can't see whats happening on this thread alone, then you're all blind.

Once again, a thread dissolves into catty remarks about Nadal etc.

I warned you about making irresponsible posts regarding PEDS and making libelous comments, yet you even ignored the advice and warnings from the people who own this forum.

Why it has become such a bugbear to some of you is pathetic, there are an infinite number of topics to talk about, yet almost every thread becomes an argument and many degenerate into anomalous PED accusations.

Many of you act like spoilt children and now, you are being treated like children, having your toys taken away. You only have yourselves to blame for abusing your right to free speech.

Will any of your learn? I doubt it, if this thread is anything to go by, taking its subject matter into account and the kind of off topic posts it has attracted.

Personally, IMO, if some of you departed and that attracted 100 more responsible posters to the forums, then so be it, a fair price to pay.

'catty' remarks about players are very different to potentially libellous statements - I think we must concede that people have the right to gossip, to be 'catty' - that is a world away from why certain threads were removed.

It takes all sorts to make a world as the cliche goes, and all sorts to make a vibrant forum.

This forum is at its best and most interesting when it has many diverse posters on and tolerance of opinion - there have been some great days like that. It stagnates when we all become intolerant of each other imvho.

Bad day at the golf course old chap Jubba?!?

The reason for PED talk hitting the site is because of "Les Guignols" skit on Nadal, which was fictional and made for a joke but Rafa being the spoilt kid he is can't be able to laugh at himself.

I respect your certainly non-childish opinion/hissy fit jubba.

Tennisanorak wrote:LF, maybe that's where the analogy between sports and music (one you are fond of) breaks down. I've never seen Beethoven and Mozart fans arguing about who was the GOAT. I suppose it is easier for people to agree to disagree about the arts because the greats don't engage in a contest with each other!

Absolutely, TA. That is the point I am driving towards. There is not even a Wee Keira discussion as far as these two are concerned. I could have picked Monet and Van Gogh for that matter.

amritia3ee wrote:

laverfan wrote:
I have no need to prove to anyone that my player is better than someone else?

I think you're just taking the p8ss now. You just attacked me for disrespecting other players, just after NITB claimed nadal is the death of tennis. If anyone is disrespecting any player its definitely not me, who are you trying to fool. I have great respect for the current top 4, all great players.

Notice the highlighted sentence. Are Top 4 the only tennis players.

amritia3ee wrote:Now you blame me for trying to prove Rafa is the best on this thread. You can read all the comments on this thread and I have never even talked about that.

This thread has very clear references to other threads. Correct?

amritia3ee wrote:The irony is that NITB posted how she thinks 5-time Grand Slam Champion Djokovic is far better than Nadal etc. but you just ignored this.

'c)' is where emotions get rattled. Logic is lost when this happens. Please re-read Tennisanorak's post. And you rose up to NITB's statement with an emotional response of your own. See Jubba's comment. It clearly shows the inability to understand an opinion. and apply TAs a) or b), because c) is so easy to apply.

amritia3ee wrote:Of course we all know that if I ever said something like 'Djokovic is the death of tennis' you like a vulture would immediately quote me and attack me for disrespecting other players, which would be fair, it's just a shame different posters have different rules on what they can do, depending on who they support.

Have you seen me write an article defending Nadal or Federer? I support both and many others, in fact, the entire ATP/WTA, including Odesnik.

JuliusHMarx wrote:And on that light-hearted (I think!) note from HE, unless anyone has anything further to add on the topic raised by YI Man in the OP, perhaps this thread can now softly wither on the vine.

I think the thread has withered on the whine

Nore Staat wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:And on that light-hearted (I think!) note from HE, unless anyone has anything further to add on the topic raised by YI Man in the OP, perhaps this thread can now softly wither on the vine.

I think the thread has withered on the whine

Did the thread 'weather' the 'whining', though?