Rhys Priestland-not all he's cracked up to be!

by hugo124 Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:11 pm

First topic message reminder :

In my opinion Priestland isn't the player everyone thinks he is.There is a lot of talk about how he stands flat and attacks the gain line however from my viewing I don't see what they're talking about.
Most of the time he gets the ball he does an up and under that can only be called average.One thing I'd give him is he has a big boot on him but from their on I don't really see what all the hullaballu is about.
He is a mediocre tackler at best maybe a bit better then O'Gara but not by much.
For example when you compare him to Sexton ;
Kicking for touch:Priestland
Goal kicking:Sexton
Attacking:Sexton
Tackling:Sexton
Tactical kicking:Sexton
Passing:Sexton (although not by much)

by wonder_man Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:03 am

i havent accused anyone of being a wum.. iv just explained how i disagree with what he's said angel

by Rory_Gallagher Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:05 am

Don't worry you don't fall under that category. Some people just don't know how to deal with people who disagree with them however.

by Morgannwg Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:08 am

Anyone else find it ironic and amusing that Rory would tell people to grow up, or is it just me?

by Rory_Gallagher Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:14 am

I find it amusing that you can't just grow up though..

by Morgannwg Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:15 am

A typical Rory child-like response. You're boring now.

by Rory_Gallagher Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:18 am

Yep, almost as child-like to challenging people to fights over the internet. But if you would like to actually discuss something instead of your constant bitching, what are your opinions on Tovey as a welsh number 10? I am impressed by him each time I see him. More so than I have ever been by Priestland.

by Morgannwg Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:34 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Yep, almost as child-like to challenging people to fights over the internet. But if you would like to actually discuss something instead of your constant bitching, what are your opinions on Tovey as a welsh number 10? I am impressed by him each time I see him. More so than I have ever been by Priestland.

Tovey is a great all-around outside half, not the best of defenders, but not the worst and his defence is certainly an area the Wales coaches could improve. I am glad you are impressed, most have been and those same rugby fans have been absolutely baffled as to why Biggar was rated ahead of him. Honestly, I think I have seen Tovey outplay Biggar everytime the Dragons faced off against Ospreys. The rumour is Jason has agreed a deal with the Blues, playing alongside Roberts should boost his credentials for Welsh no.10 because if you are from Gwent then you are hated.

To be fair, the fact that he currently isn't selected is justified. Everytime he plays well over a consistent period, he gets injured then it takes a while for him to regain some form. Priestland and Hook got the nod because of experience. As for Rhys, it's been mentioned how his strengths suit this Wales team a treat. His form with the conversion kicking has been poor but I think the good form will return, he's still good at kicking conversions from touchline on the right side of the field despite the current dip. I'm a big fan, our other 10s just resort to their boot but Rhys is intelligent, fearless and willing to keep it in hand, the first try he set up against Ireland for example. He was so creative and calm in his first start for Wales(and his 2nd cap I think?) it was like he had been playing as our outside for years. Still has a lot to prove to himself and everyone, I am hoping he remains injury free so he can work on doing just that. Back to Tovey, should he see out the season without another crop he will hopefully join the squad in touring Australia.

by Glas a du Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:06 am

I think Biggar would be a shoe in to the Ireland team, he's their type of outside half.

by flyhalffactory Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:22 am

hugo124 wrote:In my opinion Priestland isn't the player everyone thinks he is.There is a lot of talk about how he stands flat and attacks the gain line however from my viewing I don't see what they're talking about.
Most of the time he gets the ball he does an up and under that can only be called average.One thing I'd give him is he has a big boot on him but from their on I don't really see what all the hullaballu is about.
He is a mediocre tackler at best maybe a bit better then O'Gara but not by much.
For example when you compare him to Sexton ;
Kicking for touch:Priestland
Goal kicking:Sexton
Attacking:Sexton
Tackling:Sexton
Tactical kicking:Sexton
Passing:Sexton (although not by much)

as an outsider looking at the Ire v Wal match (only real comparison you can make)
Kicking for touch:Priestland
Goal kicking:Sexton
Attacking: Priestland
Creating and linking: Priestland
Tackling:Sexton / Priestland
Tactical kicking: Priestland
Passing: Priestland

by Rory_Gallagher Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:28 am

Glas a du wrote:I think Biggar would be a shoe in to the Ireland team, he's their type of outside half.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

He is Kidney's type of flyhalf. We don't want that though, we want a very creative and exciting 10 who will take us forward. Sexton, followed by Madigan, are the best options for this.

by eirebilly Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:59 am

I have been very impressed with Priestlands progress myself. He looked a much better player against Ireland once his kicking duties were removed. 10's dont have to place kick but the do have to get the line moving and i feel that Priestland does that very well. His kicking out of hand is not as bad as people think either. Still very much a work in progress but coming along very nicely i feel.

by mckay1402 Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:10 am

rory

I think it's a WUM and it's not because somebody disagrees with me. It's because of the fact that the 'facts' he has used about the way Priestland plays are nonsense and then later on he compounds this by saying "you can't argue with statistics". He hasn't given any statistics or a source which leads me to believe that there aren't any.

Also the last time Priestland and Sexton played each other it would be fair to say that Priestland had a pretty good game other than goal kicking.

I do not accuse people of Wumming lightly because of people like you who make comments like that so if I ever do then it has a strong reason behind it and not just because someone disagrees with me.

Finally, implying that people are immature for having an opinion that differs from yours is basically the same as what you were telling them to grow up for...

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:40 am

Rhys Priestland is getting our backline moving. That's enough for me. It's not true that he isn't a threat in his own right with ball in hand - if a gap appears, he'll take it; but invariably he takes the right option, which is a huge plus. Some of his garryowens were too long against Scotland, but no player in the world does everything right every time.

by bedfordwelsh Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:44 am

lp,

As I mentioned earleir though Gatland does now need to look at developing another 10 through the summer tour and the AI's.

by mckay1402 Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:46 am

totally agree with that. We can't keep going back to jonesy

by munkian Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:58 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:lp,

As I mentioned earleir though Gatland does now need to look at developing another 10 through the summer tour and the AI's.

Tovey's move to Karrrrdifffff shows his intent for progression and a Welsh cap - I'd give him a go over Biggar. Morgan is also worth a run too, just to see if he is physically up to international rugby.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:58 am

Agreed, ideally we need at least two players in each position who are Test-match quality.

by munkian Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:03 am

I don't think we have four test-match quality wingers yet. Cuthbert is doing well, Gogzilla obvioulsy, I'd rather Halfpenny stick at FB for now. Stoddart back to the wing when fit ?

by bedfordwelsh Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:09 am

I think we could cover he wings and its not such a pivotal role and can chuck youngsters in if rest of back 3 experienced like he di with North and is doing with Cuthbert.

I think most were bit wary when Priestland was given the nod, even if due to injury so lets just hope we can develop the likes of Tovey, Morgan and I still wouldn't right Biggar off completely as he's still only 21 ish isn't he.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:20 am

I certainly wouldn't write off Dan Biggar, but I really hope Matthew Morgan gets a fair crack of the whip. He's small, there's no denying that, but there's also no denying what a skilful player he is.

by GavinDragon Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:26 am

for me what makes priestland so good (and therefore so underated) is his decision making, the guy is constantly scanning to see what is on and is not afraid to switch our way of attack if its on (something which all wlesh fans groaned at when wales were just going the same way) - we still do try to work the short side as much as possible but with priestland at ten we seem to switch that much earlier when its on,

his execution needs to be worked on kicking goal kicking etc but for me 9/10 he makes the right decision with ball in hand be it bringing roberts and co into the game (which he does well by taking that extra 2 yards forward, straightening up, drawing the man then given it to roberts) or by kicking, i saw someone mention that he kicks too much...non sense he kicks when its crap ball and nothing on...have a look at dan carter and tell me if they run slow ball?

not a world beater, not a carter, but a solid player who makes good decisions....what else do you want from a number 10???

by andy powells minder Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:44 am

munkian wrote:I don't think we have four test-match quality wingers yet. Cuthbert is doing well, Gogzilla obvioulsy, I'd rather Halfpenny stick at FB for now. Stoddart back to the wing when fit ?

[u]

Class, love that! Very Happy

by munkian Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:58 am

luckless_pedestrian wrote:I certainly wouldn't write off Dan Biggar, but I really hope Matthew Morgan gets a fair crack of the whip. He's small, there's no denying that, but there's also no denying what a skilful player he is.

I'm not saying he should be written off completely - I'm saying Tovey should be given a fair crack of the whip too. Biggar was given a chance and has never delivered.

by GavinDragon Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:02 am

biggar plays by numbers not whats in front of him, i think providing mr mrogan can defend hel be back playing club rugby in a few years or over in england

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:10 am

Munkian, I'm a big fan of Tovey's. He can blow hot and old sometimes, but Priestland's not immune to that either.

by Higher_Ground Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:00 am

Kicking for touch:Priestland
Goal kicking:Sexton
Attacking:Sexton
Tackling:Sexton
Tactical kicking:Sexton
Passing:Sexton (although not by much)

Outside half of the team that won their last head to head: Priestland
Outside half of the team playing flowing attacking rugby: Priestland
Outside half showing glimpses of exceptional skill especially one offload for a try: Priestland.
Outsiide half substituted for an old hand after 60 mins: Sexton.

Terrbile post Hugo, I think Priestland's nan knows he's not the finished article yet. His kicking out of hand is generally good, and the way he mixes play up continues to improve. He kicked more against Scotland, I assume, is because he was told to.
His goal kicking is far too inconsistent, but that's where Halfpenny comes in.
Sexton is a great player too.

by Higher_Ground Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:05 am

munkian wrote:
luckless_pedestrian wrote:I certainly wouldn't write off Dan Biggar, but I really hope Matthew Morgan gets a fair crack of the whip. He's small, there's no denying that, but there's also no denying what a skilful player he is.

I'm not saying he should be written off completely - I'm saying Tovey should be given a fair crack of the whip too. Biggar was given a chance and has never delivered.

That's because - one game at home against the Ospreys aside each year - Tovey has failed to produce anything at all at regional level. The odd long range drop goal doesn't disguise the fact that he goes missing 99% of the time, and hasn't shown anything like enough consistency to warrant international selection.
Maybe in a better side (no offence Dragons) he might produce something, but as it stands, his non-inclusion is justified. He was more consistent at fullback! And injured less often.

by GavinDragon Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:11 am

i hat ethis 'in a better side' crap faletau and lydiate still stand out in a so called lesser side so so should tovey...hes been off form all year i think he was dissapointed with not being selected for the aus match and prob knew he was leaving a sinking ship,

saying that i thnk he will do well at the blues

by munkian Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:19 am

Higher_Ground wrote:
munkian wrote:
luckless_pedestrian wrote:I certainly wouldn't write off Dan Biggar, but I really hope Matthew Morgan gets a fair crack of the whip. He's small, there's no denying that, but there's also no denying what a skilful player he is.

I'm not saying he should be written off completely - I'm saying Tovey should be given a fair crack of the whip too. Biggar was given a chance and has never delivered.

That's because - one game at home against the Ospreys aside each year - Tovey has failed to produce anything at all at regional level. The odd long range drop goal doesn't disguise the fact that he goes missing 99% of the time, and hasn't shown anything like enough consistency to warrant international selection.
Maybe in a better side (no offence Dragons) he might produce something, but as it stands, his non-inclusion is justified. He was more consistent at fullback! And injured less often.

Tovey was in the Welsh training squad for the WC before he was injured in training so Gatland obviously wanted to give him a shot.

Do you actually watch regional games ? If a flyhalf went 'missing' 99% of the time he wouldnt be selected let along called up for training with the Welsh squad.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:20 am

Higher_Ground wrote:Tovey has failed to produce anything at all at regional level. The odd long range drop goal doesn't disguise the fact that he goes missing 99% of the time

That's rubbish.

by wonder_man Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:28 am

I swear done of these opinions are formed after around 40 mins of watching a player. Don't Know who your describing there.. Not Tovey though

by Feckless Rogue Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:45 am

I think Gatland would get far more from Sexton than Kidney does. Gatland trusts young talented players to out and express themselves. He's been rewarded for this policy in the last 6 months. Kidney employs rigid cautious tactics that aren't regularly working very well and the Irish players aren't enjoying playing in the same way that the Welsh clearly are.

by Higher_Ground Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:36 pm

munkian wrote:
Higher_Ground wrote:
munkian wrote:
luckless_pedestrian wrote:I certainly wouldn't write off Dan Biggar, but I really hope Matthew Morgan gets a fair crack of the whip. He's small, there's no denying that, but there's also no denying what a skilful player he is.

I'm not saying he should be written off completely - I'm saying Tovey should be given a fair crack of the whip too. Biggar was given a chance and has never delivered.

That's because - one game at home against the Ospreys aside each year - Tovey has failed to produce anything at all at regional level. The odd long range drop goal doesn't disguise the fact that he goes missing 99% of the time, and hasn't shown anything like enough consistency to warrant international selection.
Maybe in a better side (no offence Dragons) he might produce something, but as it stands, his non-inclusion is justified. He was more consistent at fullback! And injured less often.

Tovey was in the Welsh training squad for the WC before he was injured in training so Gatland obviously wanted to give him a shot.

Do you actually watch regional games ? If a flyhalf went 'missing' 99% of the time he wouldnt be selected let along called up for training with the Welsh squad.

Well - and you'll have to help me here because it's a bit fuzzy - but wasn't Tovey dropped a short while ago to let your young 10 (name escapes me) have a go? I always felt bad for Tovey missing out on the USA tour because the Dragons were playing against one of the Italian teams for H cup qualification.
I just can't put my finger on a time where Tovey has gone away from home and stamped his authority on a game particularly. He really does seem to save his best efforts for the Ospreys. I am an Ospreys fan and have stood at the Parade and watched us get sunk the last three times we've been there, usually with Tovey having a good game, but he doesn't seem to kick on from there. In my opinion he does go missing. But I'd love him to prove me very wrong. What's his actual style of play? I think most people could tell you how Steve-o, Biggar, Hook, Carter, Wilkinson like to play their game, I think you'd struggle to define Tovey's style of play due to the fact that he's so inconsistent.
Just a (sort of) constructive criticism, no offense intended.

by hugo124 Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:08 pm

Higher_Ground wrote:Kicking for touch:Priestland
Goal kicking:Sexton
Attacking:Sexton
Tackling:Sexton
Tactical kicking:Sexton
Passing:Sexton (although not by much)

Outside half of the team that won their last head to head: Priestland
Outside half of the team playing flowing attacking rugby: Priestland
Outside half showing glimpses of exceptional skill especially one offload for a try: Priestland.
Outsiide half substituted for an old hand after 60 mins: Sexton.

Terrbile post Hugo, I think Priestland's nan knows he's not the finished article yet. His kicking out of hand is generally good, and the way he mixes play up continues to improve. He kicked more against Scotland, I assume, is because he was told to.
His goal kicking is far too inconsistent, but that's where Halfpenny comes in.
Sexton is a great player too.

Here man don't take it personally, I'm just saying Sexton is the far better player and I really don't think Priestland should even be in contention for the lions if you want rugby to be going forward.It is not Sextons fault that he is not given the license to play " fast flowing rugby".Watch Sexton playing for Leinster and then watch Priestland playing for Llanelli scarlets and you'll know what I am talking about.If you were actually knew anything you would know the only reason Sexton was replaced after about 75mins because Ireland actually have another world class outhalf on the bench unlike Wales or should I say George North with 14 other players watching him.So you can keep loving Priestland but I'm just being realistic.

by Tommy David lookalike Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:10 pm

Priestland runs away from tackles like Rhys Williams used to. He does a good impression of ROG on the straight on ones.

by hugo124 Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:19 pm

mckay1402 wrote:rory

I think it's a WUM and it's not because somebody disagrees with me. It's because of the fact that the 'facts' he has used about the way Priestland plays are nonsense and then later on he compounds this by saying "you can't argue with statistics". He hasn't given any statistics or a source which leads me to believe that there aren't any.

Also the last time Priestland and Sexton played each other it would be fair to say that Priestland had a pretty good game other than goal kicking.

I do not accuse people of Wumming lightly because of people like you who make comments like that so if I ever do then it has a strong reason behind it and not just because someone disagrees with me.

Finally, implying that people are immature for having an opinion that differs from yours is basically the same as what you were telling them to grow up for...

Priestland and Sexton both didn't play well apart from his questionable offload in the corner but your not even fooling yourself if you think Priestland is a better player just watch at heineken cup level where their both given the license to play and come back to me , (You Ignorant Monsoon) mad

go take a chill pill if you know what i mean

by Morgannwg Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:58 pm

Heineken Cup? He looked good single-handedly sinking Northampton, but that's hardly the yard stick. International rugby is and that is where Priestland has proven he is the better player.

by Knowsit17 Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:06 pm

Tbh the Heino isn't the only stick to measure with, if it was then Ireland will have won a lot more Grand Slams.

Priestland is far, far from the finished article but his passing game and backline organisation has helped us more than some people realize. He had a hand in at least two of the tries scored against Ireland, as well as a good few more back in NZ. And on his day his kicking is quite decent (this year's 6N hasn't been a good example in this respect), he's been off form with the boot for a while but is still in the early days on his int'l career and could easily improve.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:08 pm

No offence, Morgannwg, but that's a bit balls.

by BlueNote Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:17 pm

I find a lot of the views expressed in this thread surprising. At international level, RP's general play has been better than any Wales fly-half in a long time. He has great rugby intelligence and his ability to identify and execute the right option has been a huge factor for Wales in the last half year. RP and Dr Bob are absolutely key for Wales' back play - you could swap almost anyone else but not those two.

Obviously his goal-kicking is not the best.

As for Sexton, his performance has been pretty mixed at international level in the games I've seen, although he seems to thrive at Leinster.

by eirebilly Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:04 pm

Feckless Rogue wrote:I think Gatland would get far more from Sexton than Kidney does. Gatland trusts young talented players to out and express themselves. He's been rewarded for this policy in the last 6 months. Kidney employs rigid cautious tactics that aren't regularly working very well and the Irish players aren't enjoying playing in the same way that the Welsh clearly are.

+1. Kidney seems to not be able to utilise the skill that Sexton brings. Gatland would encourage him to play his more natural expansive game.

by gelodge Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:24 pm

Morgannwg wrote:Heineken Cup? He looked good single-handedly sinking Northampton

Less good in the reverse fixture where they lost by a bigger margin at home than they won away.

by Rory_Gallagher Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:01 pm

Priestland.. he isn't as good as Ian Humphreys that is for sure Whistle

by Morgannwg Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:27 pm

gelodge wrote:
Morgannwg wrote:Heineken Cup? He looked good single-handedly sinking Northampton

Less good in the reverse fixture where they lost by a bigger margin at home than they won away.

The Saints shipped 4 tries up there. That didn't happen in West Wales so not entirely sure what you're on.

I was just implying that international is the test arena and not the clubs.

by Morgannwg Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:29 pm

luckless_pedestrian wrote:No offence, Morgannwg, but that's a bit balls.

You going to tell me why? Or just be your pointless self and carry on acting pedantic?

by Guest Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:32 pm

Morgannwg, I assume he means that the Scarlets lost at home by more than Northampton did. Saints did better on aggregate in the two fixtures.

by Morgannwg Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:34 pm

They were made to look better by an interception in the 80th mintue. They couldn't get 5 points in a fixture against them. I don't care to be honest, as this was not really what I was getting at.

by Rory_Gallagher Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:39 pm

Morgannwg wrote:
luckless_pedestrian wrote:No offence, Morgannwg, but that's a bit balls.

You going to tell me why? Or just be your pointless self and carry on acting pedantic?

You are some hypocrit Morgan, after leaving " Shocked

" under my comment on the Ulster thread, with zero explanation. Practice what you preach.

by Cadair Idris Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:41 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Priestland.. he isn't as good as Ian Humphreys that is for sure

So just where does Mr Priestland come in your pecking order of British & Irish fly halves Rory??

by Morgannwg Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:43 pm

Rory I just replied, be patient. I have a new laptop and I am getting to grips with the keys and features.

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