The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub

First topic message reminder :

Welcome to the Virtual Rugby Pub - a place where you can come in for a sly beverage and discuss whatever's on your mind, or just eavesdrop on the regulars if you fancy a break from all the rugby chat.

The only rule in this pub is one of mutual respect for everyone in it, oh and no defacing the pictures of Tommy Bowe, Ryan Jones, Dan Newton and birthday boy Prop above the bar.





Last Pub: https://www.606v2.com/t23758p1000-the-dew-drop-inn-virtual-rugby-pub#970282

P.S. I know that most Christians do not take that view of thiings.

However that is how it was shown to me. I found it all a bit silly and defeated the purpose.

How is it greedy to desire Heaven?

The turning point for me was when my granny passed on a few years back. I went to her funeral, having not been in a church in maybe 12 month and instantly just felt a horrible guilty feeling. Like I shouldn’t be allowed to be sad in here because I don’t go every week. Churches, and particularly the catholic church ( I can’t comment on any other one ) seem to place this massive burden of guilt on people. I left the church and thought “I try to live my life well, I try to do the right thing and be nice to people, I don’t need to feel like I can’t mourn my grandmother properly because I don’t trapse down to mass every week”.

Anyway, sorry for putting this serious topic on the table, I didn’t want to monopolise everyone’s day with serious chat.

MrsP wrote:How is it greedy to desire Heaven?

It isn't mrs P but I think it is incorrect and also extremely pessimistic to suggest that without the celestial carrot and stick of Heaven and Hell that people will automatically behave in an immoral way.

I didn't think I had done that rodders.

For most people of faith it is not about eternity, that's the icing on the cake, it's about having a relationship with God today.

Fair enough Mrs P and I respect that. I just think it is annoying and condescending when certain religons claim to have a monopoly on moraility.

MrsP, the issue is that a lot of people and a lot of clergy don't understand that.

For me as a child I was taught the basic principles that if I'm good I go to Heaven, if I'm bad I go to Hell. It had me thinking that the primary reason to be a good person was to get to Heaven, the reason you pray is so that God will know who you are when you turn up at a big yellow gate. I was taught that God lived in the clouds and had a big white beard and had loads of fellas with wings and halos flying around looking after him.

I genuinely as a child couldn't take this seriously. The tagline was like "Believe in all of this and go along with it and you'll be looked after in the afterlife. If you don't then a strange little red creature will poke you forever with a big fork".

It was explained so badly to me growing up and I found that it meant the whole concept was always going to seem strange to me.

Don't apologise, Mick, it's been a good debate.

MrsP wrote:I'm glad you gained something from your time in the pew! I hope the things you heard will be of use in other ways too.

They have been, MrsP. I'm very grateful that I got to hear them.

Mickado wrote:The turning point for me was when my granny passed on a few years back. I went to her funeral, having not been in a church in maybe 12 month and instantly just felt a horrible guilty feeling. Like I shouldn’t be allowed to be sad in here because I don’t go every week. Churches, and particularly the catholic church ( I can’t comment on any other one ) seem to place this massive burden of guilt on people. I left the church and thought “I try to live my life well, I try to do the right thing and be nice to people, I don’t need to feel like I can’t mourn my grandmother properly because I don’t trapse down to mass every week”.

Anyway, sorry for putting this serious topic on the table, I didn’t want to monopolise everyone’s day with serious chat.

Surely it isn't the Church placing any burden of guilt on you but actually you feeling guilty for abandoning the church?

But you do that that was not what I was saying, don't you?

I was just asking if we can really judge what our society or as individuals would be like if there had been no religion. Since our countries have been steeped in religion for so long we judge what is moral from the rules of that society which were based long ago on the Bible.

I'm sorry to hear that Stag I really am.

That's one of the problems I have with Religion rather than faith.

Mickado wrote:The turning point for me was when my granny passed on a few years back. I went to her funeral, having not been in a church in maybe 12 month and instantly just felt a horrible guilty feeling. Like I shouldn’t be allowed to be sad in here because I don’t go every week. Churches, and particularly the catholic church ( I can’t comment on any other one ) seem to place this massive burden of guilt on people.

Genuinely sorry if this offends anyone but I find the concept of 'original sin' abhorrent in the 21st century.

I remember being at a Catholic service a while back for something and the priest was banging on about everyone being a sinner and all that craic and I felt like telling him to feck off.

Who the feck was he to be judging a load of people he didn't even know?

Rava wrote:

Mickado wrote:The turning point for me was when my granny passed on a few years back. I went to her funeral, having not been in a church in maybe 12 month and instantly just felt a horrible guilty feeling. Like I shouldn’t be allowed to be sad in here because I don’t go every week. Churches, and particularly the catholic church ( I can’t comment on any other one ) seem to place this massive burden of guilt on people. I left the church and thought “I try to live my life well, I try to do the right thing and be nice to people, I don’t need to feel like I can’t mourn my grandmother properly because I don’t trapse down to mass every week”.

Anyway, sorry for putting this serious topic on the table, I didn’t want to monopolise everyone’s day with serious chat.

Surely it isn't the Church placing any burden of guilt on you but actually you feeling guilty for abandoning the church?

Correct Rav, but I see it like a bad breakup. Someone I used to be in a relationship with used to guilt me into doing things, but I got rid of them and any time I have to go back there I feel those guilty feelings but in a much more obvious way, like I could see that I was being manipulated. That’s just my take on it.

My goodness I'm going to be accused to getting out the virtual "Soup" in a minute!

I don't know if any of you have read a book called "The Shack"?

It does a far better job of explaining my view of the relationship between God and people than I ever could.

roddersm wrote:

Mickado wrote:The turning point for me was when my granny passed on a few years back. I went to her funeral, having not been in a church in maybe 12 month and instantly just felt a horrible guilty feeling. Like I shouldn’t be allowed to be sad in here because I don’t go every week. Churches, and particularly the catholic church ( I can’t comment on any other one ) seem to place this massive burden of guilt on people.

Genuinely sorry if this offends anyone but I find the concept of 'original sin' abhorrent in the 21st century.I remember being at a Catholic service a while back for something and the priest was banging on about everyone being a sinner and all that craic and I felt like telling him to feck off.

Who the feck was he to be judging a load of people he didn't even know?

Hear hear. I remember my nephew was born with a medical condition, he had a growth on his liver and basically they thought he wouldn’t make it. he was baptized shortly after he was born. It is really sad to think that if he hadn’t been baptized some people believe he would have gone to hell. He was just a brand new gorgeous baby boy, he was only alive for a few hours, how could he have been a sinner.

Luckily he’s a perfectly healthy lad nowadays

What I found apalling was that my girlfriend was told by a priest she couldnt act as a bridesmaid for her friends wedding. Her pal and the husband are quite religious - they're in church every week etc.

When the priest asked N when she had last been to church she said she was an atheist but that her friends was so was agreeing to do it. Priest refused to do wedding with her as bridesmaid and it caused a lot of upset for the bride and groom.

Seems silly when they themselves are religious.

Again this goes in the "Differences between Religion and Faith" column.

MrsP wrote:My goodness I'm going to be accused to getting out the vitrtual "Soup" in a minute!

I don't know if any of you have read a book called "The Shack"?

It does a far better job of explaining my view of the relationship between God and people than I ever could.

MrsP I think I understand it having visited Munsty in Cheshire. I asked a lot of very blunt questions at a Christian event and think I understand it all now.

I know that I will never see things that way. I don't feel bad about that though - I don't miss what I never had.

There's no original sin in Judaism. The church came up with that one. St Augustine, I think.

Rugby time:

Ok those who can look at this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gyx3Ttekc4w

Check out the scrum 23 minutes in. Anyone know what the Irish backline are doing???

MrsP, you won’t get any such accusations from me. It’s all just a discussion

23 minutes in to the video or 23 minutes in to the game?

luckless_pedestrian wrote:There's no original sin in Judaism. The church came up with that one. St Augustine, I think. See, there's an example of something adopted into Christian teaching without being in the Bible.

I can just imagine the sequence of thoughts going through some of your heads there.

No original sin in Judaism!

Now, can I become Jewish?

How do I do that?

Okay, let's have a look at what it takes to be a Jewish man........

Ouch!

red_stag wrote:Rugby time:

Ok those who can look at this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gyx3Ttekc4w

Check out the scrum 23 minutes in. Anyone know what the Irish backline are doing???

I'm guessing the Apache!

luckless_pedestrian wrote:There's no original sin in Judaism. The church came up with that one. St Augustine, I think. See, there's an example of something adopted into Christian teaching without being in the Bible.

Therein lies the point. How many people know or question that? That is the problem with religious dogma. The absence of reason can be a dangerous thing.

Don't get me wrong I think someone having faith is a wonderful thing but it is perfectly possible to lead a moral and fulfilling life with or without religious faith, as it is to lead an immoral and unfulfilling one .

Luckless 23 minutes into the video. You'll know it when you see it.

red_stag wrote:Rugby time:

Ok those who can look at this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gyx3Ttekc4w

Check out the scrum 23 minutes in. Anyone know what the Irish backline are doing???

Ok, I’m going to take a stab in the dark and ask is this the 2007 game in Rome where we put 50 points on them?
The entire irish backline line up one behind the other? Then do nothing?

Mick - Yes!

Well the reason they do nothing is that we win a free kick at the scrum so the #8 just takes a quick tap.

What would they have done if Stringer passed ROG that ball.

Stag, has to be some form of leap-frog?

They were trying to lure one of the big Italian forwards into running down ROG's channel and then they were all going to jump out and get him!

Yeah, I remember them talking about that. I don’t think they gave the specifics of what the plan was though, I think Darcy just said “we had something planned there but it didn’t happen”.
I’d love to find out actually.

Yea my own take is that ROG and Horgan would act as a screen to obscure what direction the attack will come from. Hickie and Darcy would launch the attack using O'Driscoll and Dempsey.

Or ROG could do a cross field kick if they whole defenders leave wing free.

Remember that one okay. I assume it had something to do with keeping the Italian's guessing which side they were going to run it. Up through the centre or one of the wings.

I remember being really annoyed by the free kick!

I'm sure other sides have done this - the Wallabies have, if I remember rightly. I can't remember what they did, though.

Was that the best backline to have ever played for Ireland?

It's the best i've ever seen.

The Wallabies did the Hokey Cokey!

I doubt they did, MrsP, but I can't prove you wrong!

It's a clever tactic (not the hokey cokey, the standing in a line behind the scrum) but it's risky - if the opposition win the ball against the head, you're in a spot of bother.

by luckless_pedestrian Today at 3:38 pm

.I doubt they did, MrsP, but I can't prove you wrong!

luckless_pedestrian wrote:I doubt they did, MrsP, but I can't prove you wrong!

It's a clever tactic (not the hokey cokey, the standing in a line behind the scrum) but it's risky - if the opposition win the ball against the head, you're in a spot of bother.

When you have as solid a scrum as Ireland do its not a worry!

Mick - I would say never mind the backline that was the best team Ireland have ever had. Better than the 2009 team.

Fitzgerald should be back for the Glasgow game on Saturday.

RESULT!

Right, I'd better start getting ready for the cycle home; I'm sure I'll be back in here later, but I just want to thank you all for today's chat and for bringing a bit of light to my otherwise tedious and a-bit-crap Monday.

God / Krishna / electricity / Romain Poite bless you all.

red_stag wrote:

luckless_pedestrian wrote:I doubt they did, MrsP, but I can't prove you wrong!

It's a clever tactic (not the hokey cokey, the standing in a line behind the scrum) but it's risky - if the opposition win the ball against the head, you're in a spot of bother.

When you have as solid a scrum as Ireland do its not a worry!

Mick - I would say never mind the backline that was the best team Ireland have ever had. Better than the 2009 team.

I’d largely agree, I would say our front row is better now but that team would beat the 2012 vintage anyway.

Was only talking to dreamer about this the other week, the backline that got me interested in rugby ( I came to the sport later than most ) was the Leinster backs plus Stringer and ROG. Hickie, Horgan and Dempsey, jeysus I’m tearing up just thinking about them…


Safe home Lucker!

Listened to an interveiw with Nacewa on newstalk on the way into work today. Wonderful man, he said he really wanted to retire with Leinster, he said he has 3 daughters who are more Irish than Kiwi and he feels at home here. The new rules that the IRFU are bringing in are a big concern to him but he's still got at least 15 months on his current contract and will play to the peak of his abilities while he's here.

Leinster's best ever import? He's ahead of them all in my book, a real Leinster man.

The team that got me into rugby:

01 Peter Clohessy
02 Keith Wood
03 John Hayes
04 Ali Williams
05 Paul O'Connell
06 Serge Besten
07 George Smith
08 Imanol Harinordoquay
09 George Gregan
10 Jonny Wilkinson
11 Jonah Lomu
12 Tana Umaga
13 Brian O'Driscoll
14 Christoph Dominici
15 Jason Robinson

I loved these players. Honourable mentions to Wendell Sailor, Joe Roff, Frederic Michalak, Doug Howlett, Mils Muliania, Chris Jack, Jim Williams and David Wallace

Mickado wrote:Leinster's best ever import? He's ahead of them all in my book, a real Leinster man.

Without shadow of a doubt.

I can't place Munsters one. Jim Williams or Doug Howlett?

Got to be williams. An unreal amount of second rows came through Munster after he left his mark. Although we could see a similar amount of wingers come after Dougie.

Greatness is like a tall building, you have to go far away from it to appreciate how big it is.

But Jim Williams played at 6/7 not at second row.

Mickado wrote:

Leinster's best ever import? He's ahead of them all in my book, a real Leinster man.

That would be Contemponi in a lot of peoples book. Also what about Elsom?

Rava - while Elsom was outstanding for 9 months, Nacewa has been playing top class rugby for years for Leinster. He also was at the core of 2 HEC winning teams - something neither Elsom or Dr Phil can boast.

But without the contributions of Contepomi and Elsom, would the foundations have been laid that enabled Leinster to go on to win those Heineken Cups?