Campillo v Cloud: 2012 First Robbery

This was a very bad decision. Poor Campillo, dropped twice early on he then went on to show up Cloud who is incredibly one dimensional. I had Campillo up by 3/4 (but they were clear rounds he won). The judge who had Cloud by 6 is either corrupt or incompetent. It is the year’s first robbery, so sad to see. Campillo is a man who has to make a living in a dangerous sport, and he should be the new IBF World Champ.

Watch it, let me know what you think?

Where can we find it Sean?

Hang on mate, joke decision

Havent seen the fight but not hugely surprised. Have never been impressed on Cloud. I think this might be the worst ever light heavyweight division in history.

If you only had him by 2, it doesn't sound like a robbery, just a close fight? (haven't seen it myself mind).

I have never rated cloud, I have read a lot about the fight and I am going to watch it now

Cleverly needs to fight Campillo next, that will be a huge test for him. Cloud took an absolute whooping in this fight.

Cloud won the 1st 10-7 and I gave him the 6th. The rest of the fight was totally dominated by Campillo, some of those rounds were so one sided you could argue 10-8. I had it 116-110 for Campillo but those scores don't quite describe how one sided most of the fight was. Apart from the knockdowns it was a total beat down.

Props to Cloud he has a hell of a heart and can come back from this, but he most definitely lost this one.

Campillo has had a very unfortunate career, firstly Murat, then Shumenov then Murat again and now this, haven't seen this fight but would be nice to hear of someone actually beating him rather than robbing him blind time and time again.

Watch it link is above.

He is a bit too far up the rankings for Cleverly.

Nathan is still learning the game apparantly

He definitely needs to fight him if he is a world champion and i'm welsh. Campillo won this fight.

After Krapency (barring a shock) Clev needs to fight one of Campillo, Shumenov or Cloud imo. It'll quite Frankly (get it?) be something of a disgrace if he doesn't.

sorry imeant 4 (which is less than most i have read) but they were clear rounds. Campillo, was robbed.

Like I posted before apart from the 1st and 6th I can't see anything you could give him, even on a Don King production... Possibly the 12th because it was less one sided than the rest????? Nah...

Despite the robbery was it a good fight?

Was actually a good fight, Cloud decked him twice then Campillo roared back and to be honest dominated large majority of the rounds... Thought it was Campillo's the crowd was booing when the winner was read out, everyone was booing and cloud looked slightly embarassed. Jim Grey (Showtimes version of Max Kellerman - just more annoying) kept asking him did you think you was losing or in any trouble of losing he flatly denied it and said thought it could be close but he was talkiing about how he fought the right fight.

This for once was a real robbery, everyone in the audience knew it too hence why there were louder boos than cheers at any time of the match.

Pretty decent fight though!

really good fight, just soured by the cards

Id like an independant source to do a study on boxing scoring. Increasingly Im beginning to feel there is this psychological mindset that the perceived challenger has to do significantly more to win a round than the champion. I think this is actually more prevalent than "home fighter" syndrome or even protecting the cash cow. I just find judging seems to adopt a kind of unwritten policy that the challenger needs to win the round convincingly to get the tick.

To be honest with you Manos, I do get this increasing feeling that judges are just idiots...

You'd hope that just this once, one of these guys could show some humility and admit he lost despite whatever the judges were on. I'm still on the lookout, who knows it might happen one day.

Thierry Henry himself admitted that the fairest possible solution to his handball against Rep. Ireland would be a rematch. To use a more related but more distant example, SRL handed it to Hearns that he should have won the decision for their second fight.

Wouldn't it just be refreshing to have something in the way of proving that there is at least a light speck of humility in a sea of opportunistic egos?

manos de piedra wrote:Id like an independant source to do a study on boxing scoring. Increasingly Im beginning to feel there is this psychological mindset that the perceived challenger has to do significantly more to win a round than the champion. I think this is actually more prevalent than "home fighter" syndrome or even protecting the cash cow. I just find judging seems to adopt a kind of unwritten policy that the challenger needs to win the round convincingly to get the tick.

Think your almost bang on.

With the judges - there's frequently the idea that the one fighter needs to win better than the other.

Then there's the otherside of things - when a fighter does better than expected in a losing effort - and people give him rounds through sentimentality.

Look at the people crying "robbery" and "disgrace" after Maidana-Morales. Truth is - Erik was frequently in trouble in that fight and Maidana pressed the action most of the way threw. The better punches came from Morales - and it was a close fight - but there was a decent argument to give the fight to Maidana. Yet afterwards - the hullaballoo came because people were rewarding someone for surprising them, rather on the efforts within the ring.

Same last night - when people were calling it Vitali's by a round. That's a joke - the BBC's 12-0 was a little harsh - but not too far off the mark. Yes - Chisora did better than people expected him to - but not quite that well.

The idea that the challenger has to "take" the champion's belt does seem ingrained in judges minds though.

AlexHuckerby wrote:To be honest with you Manos, I do get this increasing feeling that judges are just idiots...

Some definately are. But in boxing, probably moreso than any other sport Im familiar with, lends itself to self fulfulling prophecies. The home fighter will have the advantage - this becomes accepted - becomes a mindset - before you know it, its actually true. Likewise the challenger needs to more to win a round suddenly becomes true. And that a loss for a fighter is a massive issue. That becomes true. Intelligent fans can sit back and recognise this but its amazing how often they become accepted at face vakue just because enough people say it.

Had Vitali 10-2 Chis took 6th and 8th go back and watch and you could disagree with me I guess.

manos de piedra wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:To be honest with you Manos, I do get this increasing feeling that judges are just idiots...

Some definately are. But in boxing, probably moreso than any other sport Im familiar with, lends itself to self fulfulling prophecies. The home fighter will have the advantage - this becomes accepted - becomes a mindset - before you know it, its actually true. Likewise the challenger needs to more to win a round suddenly becomes true. And that a loss for a fighter is a massive issue. That becomes true. Intelligent fans can sit back and recognise this but its amazing how often they become accepted at face vakue just because enough people say it.

I still struggle to see how somebody who is trained (Surely) to be as impartial a viewer as possible can still maintain this mentality... Some fights without a doubt can be hard to score, Morales/Barreras etc. you can look at those fights in different views for example, and judging on what you like or think you see you can come up with comfortableish decisions for either guy, but this fight last night was relatively easy to score with Campillo landing the better shots and outworking Cloud a lot of the time and making Cloud look rather one dimensional with no real gameplan after the two knockdowns.

Not to mention cutting and bashing Clouds face into a bit of a bloody mess

AlexHuckerby wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:To be honest with you Manos, I do get this increasing feeling that judges are just idiots...

Some definately are. But in boxing, probably moreso than any other sport Im familiar with, lends itself to self fulfulling prophecies. The home fighter will have the advantage - this becomes accepted - becomes a mindset - before you know it, its actually true. Likewise the challenger needs to more to win a round suddenly becomes true. And that a loss for a fighter is a massive issue. That becomes true. Intelligent fans can sit back and recognise this but its amazing how often they become accepted at face vakue just because enough people say it.

I still struggle to see how somebody who is trained (Surely) to be as impartial a viewer as possible can still maintain this mentality... Some fights without a doubt can be hard to score, Morales/Barreras etc. you can look at those fights in different views for example, and judging on what you like or think you see you can come up with comfortableish decisions for either guy, but this fight last night was relatively easy to score with Campillo landing the better shots and outworking Cloud a lot of the time and making Cloud look rather one dimensional with no real gameplan after the two knockdowns.

I just think its largely subconcious. Ive read studies done on things like the impact crowds can have etc and I know myslef from watching fights that even things like the comentary can often have a subconcious effect on your thinking when you are scoring. Ive seen fights live that I have retrospectively scored different when I watched them back on tv so I think subtle effects like that can play a part. It shouldnt excuse flagrant robberies but I do think in fights where there are enough rounds capable of going either way in general judges feel its "easier" to give them to the champion and this phenomenon is sometimes taken to extremes. Almost to the point where anything other than a decisive win for the challenger will see the round go to the champion. It makes it much harder for the challenger to win. You see it regarding stoppages alot aswell. When its the favourite/champion thats floored or in trouble he seems to get far more chances than the challenger/underdog. Often as soon as the underdog is floored or hurt the fight is waved off. This is another psycholigical barrier that seems to exist. In a sport as subjective as boxing I think theres a whole host of these kind of mental ticks in effect.

Absolute disgrace! Apart from the 1st round; i only gave cloud the 6th and the 12th, and they were close! The rest were just so clear for Campillo. Such a shame and how one judge had it 116-110 is beyond me. just gutted for Campillo again

Even using the theory that the challenger must clearly win the rounds and dominate the champion...it's still a robbery. I saw Campillo against Murat in his previous fight and was very very impressed, he also won that and got robbed.

Some great fighters never get the break and they fully deserve it!

Lets have a rematch!