Contracts

First topic message reminder :

After another victory for the Brothers K this weekend, quite a few posters have been highlighting the Klits contracts as the stumbling block to a fight with David Haye amongst others.

The term "slave contract" has been bandied about and the general feel was that the contracts were heavily favoured towards the champs.

On another thread discussing Samuel Peter, a poster mentioned about after his first loss, he went away and got a few wins to make himself the mandatory challenger again. Something that David Haye doesnt want to do.

So my question is, how much power do the champions have in the contract negotiations when facing a mandatory?

If Chisora had been a mandatory, what would have been the difference in purse and contract details for example.

rowley wrote:I didn't say you hadn't seen contracts I asked you if you had seen a Klitschko contract you admitted you hadn't.

I;m aware of that. The point remains. It doesn't take a leap in logic to know what goes on.

azania wrote:No distortion of any facts. K2 held firm on a 50/50 split on PPV figures. Haye could have offered 60/40 but they refused. In the UK haye was the bigger name so by K2 logic applied here, he deserved the lion's share of the PPV split. On the interview on Sky Breonte insisted on 50/50 or no fight. Its all there. I#ll see if its on you tube.

As for Haye withdrawing, Setanta were about to go under. His money ould have come from there. Logical to withdraw when you're getting a pittance for the biggest fight. Plus winning the WBA title gave him greater bargainiing power.

The Harrison fight wasnt a joke on paper. He was Euro champ. Sosnowski bailed out to fight Vit and recently drew against some club fighter. No criticism there. No criticism for fighting Mormeck who Haye beat up.

Haye is not an entertaining fighter at HW. I wont argue that point. Neither is Wlad. Brilliant technical boxer though. I'm not going to criticise his ability because I rate him very highly. I criticise their management team for offering slave contracts and being greedy. Yes they take the licks. But so does the other guy.

Credit Haye for making that fight happen. If he had adopted K2 business skills, that fight would not have happened. They conceded to the K2 demands.

It is distortion. We have had distortions like the Klitschkos dont travel and stay at home. Ignoring the obvious financial sense it makes to fight at home and their entitlement as champions to do so, I can say for sure that both have fought at least 7 world title fights each in other countries and have fought in as many as 7 different countries.

Then we have the 95-5 contracts, presented as if thats the norm. It isnt. They have also signed 50/50 contracts, 80/20 contracts, 70/30 contracts. Both Wlads unifications were 50/50. No credence at all given as to why the Chisora contract was such a small split either despite some obvious ones.

Then, there is is Wlad was happy to face Eurotrash while Haye was at heavyweight. In that space he fought 3 Americans, 1 American based and Nigerian and two Eurasians. The two Eurasians were unbeaten, former world amateur medalists and former/present world champions (Chagaev having been shafted by King). Most were top ten rated.

Now its the split of the money. They agreed to 50/50. Thats all Haye ever demanded. He said it was a fair split. There was no clauses or options. It was all revenues, K2 and Haye, put into one pot and split down evenely. No consideration to the fact Wlad was seen as the legitimate champion and was a major factor in Hayes ppv numbers.

I dont blame Haye for pulling out of the first fight in those circumstances. I dont blame him for going after Valuev who was an easier target. Despite the fact it was him that killed the second negotiaitions with Vitali as a result. But it was not the Klitschkos fault. It was Haye looking after his own interests. No mention either of Hayes bogus retirement tactic to pressure Wlad into ditching the Chisora fight (which he accomodated Haye on). Haye himself couldnt have come up with a better account of what happened. In fact, he didnt. He said he wanted a 50/50 split with no rematch or options. Wlad agreed.

The fact that so many boxers have come out against Klitschko slave contracts proves this is more likely to be true...Harrison was favourite to beat Sosnowski.

Haye would knock out Vitali...Boente knows this and wont make the fight happen.

Haye has accepted his lowest world title payday and should be praised to try and redeem himself.

Get over the Haye Wlad fight...If Haye claimed the Earth was round some of you lot would still argue with him and claim he was a liar...Get over it not like Haye held a gun to your head and forced you to buy his fights.

Haye did not kill the Vitali fight in 2009 it was Klitschko's team for going back on their word just like in December 2011.

Haye was the ppv attraction not the Klitschko's...Haye earning more against a Harrison then the Klitschko's have ever earned in their careers prior to the haye fight.

The genius of PBF wrote:The fact that so many boxers have come out against Klitschko slave contracts proves this is more likely to be true...Harrison was favourite to beat Sosnowski.

Haye would knock out Vitali...Boente knows this and wont make the fight happen.

Haye has accepted his lowest world title payday and should be praised to try and redeem himself.

Get over the Haye Wlad fight...If Haye claimed the Earth was round some of you lot would still argue with him and claim he was a liar...Get over it not like Haye held a gun to your head and forced you to buy his fights.

Werent his last few fights on PPV? So, he therefore did force you to buy the fights if you wanted to watch them.

and:

The term "slave contract" is no longer to be used on this forum. It is a derogatory remark that until can be shown as proof on here as being "slave"like (To my knowledge slaves didnt have contracts which makes the statement even more remedial), it is also potentially libellous.

It is more importantly than both of the facts, highly annoying. Like saying Spam over and over and over again.

Boxers are not slaves. They do not need to sign any contract.

Dass wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:To make people like you believe that Vitali is ducking him and to put pressure on Vitali to fight him.

So he's lying to us about wanting to fight Vitali so he can put pressure on Vitali to fight him, doesn't really make sense. The only reason to lie would be for publicity and nothing else, with no desire to fight Vitali at all.

For all the supposed attacks on the Klits and their reputations there's just as many who seem to let their personal opinion of Haye cloud their judgement when discussion him.

Ys. Haye doesnt want to fight his way back into contention. He wants straight back into the picture. Its Vitalis discretion whether to fight him or not. Haye is resorting to same goading and self promotion that earned him his first fight. He wants to make people believe Vitali is avoiding him so Vitali will feel obliged to fight him. He wants to shift the focus away from his last performance, his lack of any real entitlement to a match and his unwillingness to rebuild his own stock and credentials in the ring.

Im not particulalry against a fight with Vitali by the way. But its tactics from Haye designed to get people thinking Vitali is avoiding him, rather than whether Haye has the credentials to be entitled to a fight, whether hes just after a payday or whether he has a realistic chance of winning.

You do somewhat obsessed by what each of us may or may not have paid to watch Haye's previous fights PBF, for what it is worth of his last three I have watched two at friends houses which have cost me nothing and only paid out for the Harrison fight, the cost of which was more than covered by the money I made betting on Wlad to beat him with friends. Hope this puts your mind at rest re. my particular motives.

manos, we've gone through the "obvious" financial benefits of fighting at home and I disagree (ticket sales etc). Money comes from TV. The bout could be held in Hong Kong or wherever and they will still get the same purse. They mainly choose to stay at home because of the favourable conditions. No big deal as it happens all the time. Ottke stayed at home also. Beyer, Sturm and others. I see a trend.

50/50 contracts was with Haye where all the money was put into one pot and divvied up equally. The 70/30, 80/20 did not include the K2's TV money I'm certain of that.

I haven't accused him of fighting eurotrash. I've accused them of fighting trash. Thats because the HW scene if ful of trash HW and blatent duckers. No fault of K2 there.

My criticism of them is from a business perspective and nothig else.

You had the option of not buying the fight...Haye forced no one.

Boxers are not slaves. They do not need to sign any contract. .

They are not slaves but are often held to ransom by promoters and managers alike. I'll always quote Larry Holmes when he said "Boxing is the only sport where the lions are scared of the rats".

Often if they dont sign contracts, they dont fight. If they dont fight, they dont get paid. Witherspon's purse was supposed to be $1m against Bruno. He was left with $90k after deductions and the IRS.

The term "sl@ve contract" was coined by Floyd when he and his then advisor Mark Prince rejected an offer from HBO. But the term is very accurate when a boxer signs a contract where his future is controlled by someone else oitside of his team.

How are the Klitschkos anything like Ottke or Sturm?

Wlad has fought world title fights against American or American based fighters Mercer, McCline, Brewster, Brock, Peter in the U.S aswell as a unification against Ibragimov there.

Vitali has fought Adamek in Poland, Arreola, Lewis, Williams, Sanders and Johnson in the U.S and Hide in the UK.

Dispute the point that they can sell more tickets in Germany but its the truth.

I stand corrected there.

Yes they sell more tickets in Germany. Not my point. They can have a fight in Dubai with 19 sheiks and their camels, yet they will still get paid the same as a fight in germany.

As Manos has proven the idea they are stay at home fighters doesn't really stand up to much analysis but is just another example like the options in contracts which is true of most major fighters but everyone else gets a pass on. How many times has Mayweather, Ward, Holyfield or countless other fighters fought outside their home nation.

Should add this is not a criticism, most fighters is given a chance will use their influence to ensure they have as many advantages as they can in terms of venue and purse and frequently do so but it is the hypocrisy of criticising the brothers, and with such vitriol, but giving others a pass that does not sit right with me.

hate the idea that boxing is controlled in this way- shouldnt specific guidelines be followed at all costs- shouldnt it all be regulated?

dont get me wrong a champ deserves the majority- but when we talk about 95-5% splits and futures controlled something has gone wrong!

if the opponenet is truely that worthless the fight shouldnt go ahead, and even so they deserve a half decent pay day

BREAKING NEWS - K2 didnt pay Del compo for pulling out twice for the fight with Wlad.

Do you know if Haye paid Wlad compensation when he pulled out of the figth with him or is this another thing that only the brothers get slated for?

rowley wrote:Do you know if Haye paid Wlad compensation when he pulled out of the figth with him or is this another thing that only the brothers get slated for?

What has that got to do with it? The behind the scenes crap the K2 played was vile. Its on boxnation now.

How come every promoter who has dealt with K2 team come out with bad things to say about them?

Changing rulles at the last minute. Spitting was nasty but.......

azania wrote:I stand corrected there.

Yes they sell more tickets in Germany. Not my point. They can have a fight in Dubai with 19 sheiks and their camels, yet they will still get paid the same as a fight in germany.

Not really. Demand for tickets is high in Germany where their fanbase is. They can both guarantee to sell out arenas and charge more money for tickets because the demand is higher. They could sell out an arena in Germany fighting even a lightly regarded opponent. How many tickets would Vitali v Chisora sell in the U.S or even the U.K for that matter? 12,500 seats at an average of 60 quid a pop is 750k. Not insignifant.

Comparing them Sturm and especially Ottke is like insinuating they fight there because they need help from the refs or judges which I dont think has ever been the case. Its a financial decision. When opponents like Arreola or Adamek can provide a good home following then fights have been held in their back yard.

azania wrote:

rowley wrote:Do you know if Haye paid Wlad compensation when he pulled out of the figth with him or is this another thing that only the brothers get slated for?

What has that got to do with it? The behind the scenes crap the K2 played was vile. Its on boxnation now.

Well the criticism is only valid if it was either in the contract for comensation to be paid or was common practice for compensation to be paid. I asked about Haye to firstly establish the second point and secondly to establish if he didn't he would be subject to similar levels of criticism.

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:I stand corrected there.

Yes they sell more tickets in Germany. Not my point. They can have a fight in Dubai with 19 sheiks and their camels, yet they will still get paid the same as a fight in germany.

Not really. Demand for tickets is high in Germany where their fanbase is. They can both guarantee to sell out arenas and charge more money for tickets because the demand is higher. They could sell out an arena in Germany fighting even a lightly regarded opponent. How many tickets would Vitali v Chisora sell in the U.S or even the U.K for that matter? 12,500 seats at an average of 60 quid a pop is 750k. Not insignifant.

Comparing them Sturm and especially Ottke is like insinuating they fight there because they need help from the refs or judges which I dont think has ever been the case. Its a financial decision. When opponents like Arreola or Adamek can provide a good home following then fights have been held in their back yard.

The number of tickets sold is irrelevant. Thats my point.

rowley wrote:

azania wrote:

rowley wrote:Do you know if Haye paid Wlad compensation when he pulled out of the figth with him or is this another thing that only the brothers get slated for?

What has that got to do with it? The behind the scenes crap the K2 played was vile. Its on boxnation now.

Well the criticism is only valid if it was either in the contract for comensation to be paid or was common practice for compensation to be paid. I asked about Haye to firstly establish the second point and secondly to establish if he didn't he would be subject to similar levels of criticism.

Irrelevnat totally. The K2 are not the saints people likt to portray them to be. What Haye does is not the point. You are others already have Haye an a tab below K2 in the honour/class/humility/humble stakes. These guys are unsavoury characters who make Don King appear a reincarnation of Jesus (or Muhammed PBUH).

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=30840&more=1

Good article worth a read

azania wrote:

rowley wrote:

azania wrote:

rowley wrote:Do you know if Haye paid Wlad compensation when he pulled out of the figth with him or is this another thing that only the brothers get slated for?

What has that got to do with it? The behind the scenes crap the K2 played was vile. Its on boxnation now.

Well the criticism is only valid if it was either in the contract for comensation to be paid or was common practice for compensation to be paid. I asked about Haye to firstly establish the second point and secondly to establish if he didn't he would be subject to similar levels of criticism.

Irrelevnat totally. The K2 are not the saints people likt to portray them to be. What Haye does is not the point. You are others already have Haye an a tab below K2 in the honour/class/humility/humble stakes. These guys are unsavoury characters who make Don King appear a reincarnation of Jesus (or Muhammed PBUH).

Rowley, I am ordering the Glenn Beck book - do you want a copy too?

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:I stand corrected there.

Yes they sell more tickets in Germany. Not my point. They can have a fight in Dubai with 19 sheiks and their camels, yet they will still get paid the same as a fight in germany.

Not really. Demand for tickets is high in Germany where their fanbase is. They can both guarantee to sell out arenas and charge more money for tickets because the demand is higher. They could sell out an arena in Germany fighting even a lightly regarded opponent. How many tickets would Vitali v Chisora sell in the U.S or even the U.K for that matter? 12,500 seats at an average of 60 quid a pop is 750k. Not insignifant.

Comparing them Sturm and especially Ottke is like insinuating they fight there because they need help from the refs or judges which I dont think has ever been the case. Its a financial decision. When opponents like Arreola or Adamek can provide a good home following then fights have been held in their back yard.

The number of tickets sold is irrelevant. Thats my point.

How is it irrelevant? It doesnt provide the same as tv revenue but it still provides. 750k generated by the gate is about a quarter of what Vitali got from the tv networks. I wouldnt dismiss it as being irrelevant. More tickets sales = more money.

The genius of PBF wrote:http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=30840&more=1

Good article worth a read

Great article. Ks are no angels.

Adam D wrote:

azania wrote:

rowley wrote:

azania wrote:

rowley wrote:Do you know if Haye paid Wlad compensation when he pulled out of the figth with him or is this another thing that only the brothers get slated for?

What has that got to do with it? The behind the scenes crap the K2 played was vile. Its on boxnation now.

Well the criticism is only valid if it was either in the contract for comensation to be paid or was common practice for compensation to be paid. I asked about Haye to firstly establish the second point and secondly to establish if he didn't he would be subject to similar levels of criticism.

Irrelevnat totally. The K2 are not the saints people likt to portray them to be. What Haye does is not the point. You are others already have Haye an a tab below K2 in the honour/class/humility/humble stakes. These guys are unsavoury characters who make Don King appear a reincarnation of Jesus (or Muhammed PBUH).

Rowley, I am ordering the Glenn Beck book - do you want a copy too?

Beck is the funniest thing on TV. Makes Fox News worthwile.

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:I stand corrected there.

Yes they sell more tickets in Germany. Not my point. They can have a fight in Dubai with 19 sheiks and their camels, yet they will still get paid the same as a fight in germany.

Not really. Demand for tickets is high in Germany where their fanbase is. They can both guarantee to sell out arenas and charge more money for tickets because the demand is higher. They could sell out an arena in Germany fighting even a lightly regarded opponent. How many tickets would Vitali v Chisora sell in the U.S or even the U.K for that matter? 12,500 seats at an average of 60 quid a pop is 750k. Not insignifant.

Comparing them Sturm and especially Ottke is like insinuating they fight there because they need help from the refs or judges which I dont think has ever been the case. Its a financial decision. When opponents like Arreola or Adamek can provide a good home following then fights have been held in their back yard.

The number of tickets sold is irrelevant. Thats my point.

How is it irrelevant? It doesnt provide the same as tv revenue but it still provides. 750k generated by the gate is about a quarter of what Vitali got from the tv networks. I wouldnt dismiss it as being irrelevant. More tickets sales = more money.

Ticket sales do not generate the same amount as TV. The revenue gained is insignificant compared to TV.

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:I stand corrected there.

Yes they sell more tickets in Germany. Not my point. They can have a fight in Dubai with 19 sheiks and their camels, yet they will still get paid the same as a fight in germany.

Not really. Demand for tickets is high in Germany where their fanbase is. They can both guarantee to sell out arenas and charge more money for tickets because the demand is higher. They could sell out an arena in Germany fighting even a lightly regarded opponent. How many tickets would Vitali v Chisora sell in the U.S or even the U.K for that matter? 12,500 seats at an average of 60 quid a pop is 750k. Not insignifant.

Comparing them Sturm and especially Ottke is like insinuating they fight there because they need help from the refs or judges which I dont think has ever been the case. Its a financial decision. When opponents like Arreola or Adamek can provide a good home following then fights have been held in their back yard.

The number of tickets sold is irrelevant. Thats my point.

How is it irrelevant? It doesnt provide the same as tv revenue but it still provides. 750k generated by the gate is about a quarter of what Vitali got from the tv networks. I wouldnt dismiss it as being irrelevant. More tickets sales = more money.

Ticket sales do not generate the same amount as TV. The revenue gained is insignificant compared to TV.

Which I am not disputing. But it is still extra Revenue thats qualifies above insignificant. Just because it doesnt match tv revenue doesnt mean its worth discounting. Heck why open a fight to the public at all for any sports event. Money talks azania, which you are fond of reminding us. And the Klitschkos fights make more in Germany than they do elsewhere in terms of gates.

azania wrote: These guys are unsavoury characters who make Don King appear a reincarnation of Jesus (or Muhammed PBUH).

As we have now reached the point of comparing the brothers with someone who kicked a man to death over a gambling debt think the shark has been well and truly jumped on this one. Got to say your lack of objectivity is staggering on this Az. You say they didn't pay Chisora compensation but provide zero evidence to suggest any other promoter or fighter would have done differently in this circumstance, you say they pay people 95-5% contracts despite Manos providing ample data to suggest this represents the exception rather than the norm, say they are stay at home champions despite this, in terms relative to other dominant champions not really being statistically correct and say the brothers bully folk with options in their contracts despite acknowledging yourself that this is pretty common practice in the sport, baffling.

No matter which way people spin it, £100,000 for a heavyweight title fight is an absolute joke and has no real justification, add into it the potential earnings Chisora will have indirectly lost because of the disruption to his career it does leave an unsavory taste in the mouth.

he did really well in that fight- i didnt like what he did before the fight- i didnt like what he did after the fight- but i respect the fight he gave in the ring and 100k for that and all the training before hand- guy has been robbed blind- if every fighter just said NO to these ridiculas contracts- they may have to up the money or fight each other- shock horror

rowley wrote:

azania wrote: These guys are unsavoury characters who make Don King appear a reincarnation of Jesus (or Muhammed PBUH).

As we have now reached the point of comparing the brothers with someone who kicked a man to death over a gambling debt think the shark has been well and truly jumped on this one. Got to say your lack of objectivity is staggering on this Az. You say they didn't pay Chisora compensation but provide zero evidence to suggest any other promoter or fighter would have done differently in this circumstance, you say they pay people 95-5% contracts despite Manos providing ample data to suggest this represents the exception rather than the norm, say they are stay at home champions despite this, in terms relative to other dominant champions not really being statistically correct and say the brothers bully folk with options in their contracts despite acknowledging yourself that this is pretty common practice in the sport, baffling.

I'm referring to their business practices rowley. But if you want to score cheap, hooker points, be my guest. 2 can play that childish game also. I wont bite though.

Frank Warren was just interviewed on Boxnation and he claimed that he wasn't paid compo. Now such an allegation will normally result in a law suit or an immediate rebuttal. I await the rebuttal. I reckon I'd be as old as windy before that comes along.

No, I didn't say they paid people 95/5. I said they PROBABLY paid Chis 95/5 (Chisora only) seeing as Chis got £100k and Vit got £3m just from TV. I dont know what his purse was but I reckon it was avove the £1m mark.

I've conceded on the stay at home stuff. But carry on deliberately misquoting and misrepresenting what I'm saying.

I really dont care about other promoters or boxers. Far too many people say the K2s are humble, classy, rescue cats from trees. My point is that they are far from that in their business practices. In fact they are quite the opposite. Its one thing being humble in front of the cameras whilst deliberately shafting others in contracts and in the build up to fights.

But carry on with your cheap points.

Just heard on Skt Sports News, Beonte stating that he had told Haye 2 weeks ago that they didn't want the fight with Vitali. Maybe so. But I wish he'd tell Vitali who during the build up to the Chisora was constantly making references to Haye and literally calling him out.

The man is less than honest.

Strange how he never has anything to say when directly questioned by either Haye or Booth but waits a couple of days then releases a statement, the guys a lying dirtbag.

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:I stand corrected there.

Yes they sell more tickets in Germany. Not my point. They can have a fight in Dubai with 19 sheiks and their camels, yet they will still get paid the same as a fight in germany.

Not really. Demand for tickets is high in Germany where their fanbase is. They can both guarantee to sell out arenas and charge more money for tickets because the demand is higher. They could sell out an arena in Germany fighting even a lightly regarded opponent. How many tickets would Vitali v Chisora sell in the U.S or even the U.K for that matter? 12,500 seats at an average of 60 quid a pop is 750k. Not insignifant.

Comparing them Sturm and especially Ottke is like insinuating they fight there because they need help from the refs or judges which I dont think has ever been the case. Its a financial decision. When opponents like Arreola or Adamek can provide a good home following then fights have been held in their back yard.

The number of tickets sold is irrelevant. Thats my point.

How is it irrelevant? It doesnt provide the same as tv revenue but it still provides. 750k generated by the gate is about a quarter of what Vitali got from the tv networks. I wouldnt dismiss it as being irrelevant. More tickets sales = more money.

Ticket sales do not generate the same amount as TV. The revenue gained is insignificant compared to TV.

Which I am not disputing. But it is still extra Revenue thats qualifies above insignificant. Just because it doesnt match tv revenue doesnt mean its worth discounting. Heck why open a fight to the public at all for any sports event. Money talks azania, which you are fond of reminding us. And the Klitschkos fights make more in Germany than they do elsewhere in terms of gates.

Other venues elsewhere would pay the same for the venue and sell the place out. But I wont argue too much. Just brings me back to the Paq/Floyd issue when Arum scuppered it with the venue issue.

I suppose is which venue will pay the highest price.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Strange how he never has anything to say when directly questioned by either Haye or Booth but waits a couple of days then releases a statement, the guys a lying dirtbag.

Of course they wont. They know they're lying and will probably hide behind the language issue if pressed and found out.

The games they played just prior to the walk out was a joke. Totally classless. Bordering on cheating. Wlad actually thinks the WBC is answerable to K2 and the fight was under German commission rules. Merchant bankers.

Whichever venue Mayweather wants will pay the most in that case.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Whichever venue Mayweather wants will pay the most in that case.

Correct. Its a bidding war. When Arum said he wanted 40-50K people he was lying again. Ticket sales wont add zeros to the purse. Its what the casinos in Vegas were prepared to pay. Interesting that as soon as Cotto was chosen that venue became redundant.

azania wrote:

Frank Warren was just interviewed on Boxnation and he claimed that he wasn't paid compo. Now such an allegation will normally result in a law suit or an immediate rebuttal. I await the rebuttal. I reckon I'd be as old as windy before that comes along.

So what if they didn't pay him compensation, if it was in the contract and they didn't pay Warren would be well within his rights to feel aggreived and to sue, but you know as well as me Warren would have sued was it in the contract. If it is not in the contract then he is not entitled to it so unless someone can provide any evidence whatsoever that under similar circumstances other fighters or promoters would have paid out compensation this is not a valid criticism, and just as a personal aside Warren could perhaps pay Chisora himself out of the money he screwed Calzaghe out of for the Hopkins fight.

I don't think the brothers are angels but neither do I think they are any worse than any other promotional outfit, which is for all intents what they are and thus far I hve seen no evidence to genuinely prove they are guilty of practices that are not widespread in the sport.

rowley wrote:

azania wrote:

Frank Warren was just interviewed on Boxnation and he claimed that he wasn't paid compo. Now such an allegation will normally result in a law suit or an immediate rebuttal. I await the rebuttal. I reckon I'd be as old as windy before that comes along.

So what if they didn't pay him compensation, if it was in the contract and they didn't pay Warren would be well within his rights to feel aggreived and to sue, but you know as well as me Warren would have sued was it in the contract. If it is not in the contract then he is not entitled to it so unless someone can provide any evidence whatsoever that under similar circumstances other fighters or promoters would have paid out compensation this is not a valid criticism, and just as a personal aside Warren could perhaps pay Chisora himself out of the money he screwed Calzaghe out of for the Hopkins fight.

I don't think the brothers are angels but neither do I think they are any worse than any other promotional outfit, which is for all intents what they are and thus far I hve seen no evidence to genuinely prove they are guilty of practices that are not widespread in the sport.

I have no problem with that. But dont urinate on me and tellk me its raining. These guys are supposed to be classy, humble, and all other positive adjectives those with better english that I have can write.

But the bottom line is that they wasted a year of Chisora's career and offered no compo. They dicked him around. But they are humble and nice guys so its all good.

Why do you keep bringing other boxers into this? We are talking about K2 here, not Hopkins, not Oscar, Herbie Hide or Eric Crumble. They are the worse promotional company. They offer indentured labour contracts. Dont tell me these guys care a jot about legacy or boxing as they claim. They dont. Too many fall for their bs and buy their $h12. I suppose you want evidence of that also.

Their hypocracy makes me want to vomit.

Have any of you read Wladimir's open letter about the brawl?

The guy is a hypocrite plain and simple...Wladimir stood on a chair laughing and smiling, clapping and giving two thumbs up to journalists...he loved every moment of the brawl and now claims it was a disgrace.

The genius of PBF wrote:Have any of you read Wladimir's open letter about the brawl?

The guy is a hypocite plain and simple...Wladimir stood on a chair laughing and smiling, clapping and giving two thumbs up to journalists...he loved every moment of the brawl and now claims it was a disgrace.

I'd like to read it.

I heard him and Beonte shouting "run David run". Classy indeed.

I thought only Wladimir shouted that...After the brawl Haye goes to Boente "See I knocked him (Chisora) out"...implying that he beat Chisora so deserves a shot at Vitali now...Boente starts laughing

Haye showed some good MMA moved there. The 12 to 6 elbow strikes was pretty impressive. Watch out Bones Jones.

Haye landed the best punch of the night...Right hand on Chisora's jaw.

Took Chisora down and then busted his trainer up...Haye showed the Klitschko's how to put Chisora in his place.

azania wrote:

rowley wrote:

azania wrote:

Frank Warren was just interviewed on Boxnation and he claimed that he wasn't paid compo. Now such an allegation will normally result in a law suit or an immediate rebuttal. I await the rebuttal. I reckon I'd be as old as windy before that comes along.

So what if they didn't pay him compensation, if it was in the contract and they didn't pay Warren would be well within his rights to feel aggreived and to sue, but you know as well as me Warren would have sued was it in the contract. If it is not in the contract then he is not entitled to it so unless someone can provide any evidence whatsoever that under similar circumstances other fighters or promoters would have paid out compensation this is not a valid criticism, and just as a personal aside Warren could perhaps pay Chisora himself out of the money he screwed Calzaghe out of for the Hopkins fight.

I don't think the brothers are angels but neither do I think they are any worse than any other promotional outfit, which is for all intents what they are and thus far I hve seen no evidence to genuinely prove they are guilty of practices that are not widespread in the sport.

I have no problem with that. But dont urinate on me and tellk me its raining. These guys are supposed to be classy, humble, and all other positive adjectives those with better english that I have can write.

But the bottom line is that they wasted a year of Chisora's career and offered no compo. They dicked him around. But they are humble and nice guys so its all good.

Why do you keep bringing other boxers into this? We are talking about K2 here, not Hopkins, not Oscar, Herbie Hide or Eric Crumble. They are the worse promotional company. They offer indentured labour contracts. Dont tell me these guys care a jot about legacy or boxing as they claim. They dont. Too many fall for their bs and buy their $h12. I suppose you want evidence of that also.

Their hypocracy makes me want to vomit.

Speak yoursef there azania. Your happy to throw out statements that fit your negative profiling of the Klitschkos whether its true or not. Roughly 35% of Wlads title fights have been abroad. Roughly 45% of Vitalis title fights have been abroad. But they are similar to Ottke and stay at home fighters who do so for the "home benefits". Ticket sales or fanbase dont matter at all either apparently.

Your happy enough to say the Klitschkos dicked Chisora around. You dont really bother to mention that it was actually Wlad who wanted to go through with the Chisora fight but Haye wouldnt have it and used his (now proven to be bs) retirement threat as a means to get Wlad to drop the fight. No point mentioning that the Klitchkos actually gave Chisora his title shot in the end at a time when his career was at an all time low pretty much either or that Chisora could have turned it down if he wasnt happy with the offer he scarcely deserved in the first place.

Lets excuse Haye for not bothering to fight his way into contention. Lets pretend hes entitled to another title shot having been spanked by Wlad. Its fine for Haye to talk smack, bs around or brawl in public. People need to get off their high horse and chill out if its a case of cheap shots, attacks with weapons or fighters getting arrested but heaven forbid someone like Berndt Boente might be economical with the truth, thats the real criminal offence.

It just comes across as a tad inconsistent is all Im saying really.

Manos, I'm not going on about the venues, home fighting etc. I've conceded that point and you are correct there. Point taken.

As for your point about Wlad wanting to go through with it but for Haye. Haye wasnt contracted to fight Chisora. Normal contracts will include compensation for such eventuality or at least an offer for a fight on the undercard. Chisora got nothing. He was screwed over. Cant blame Haye for that. Totally Wlad's doing. 100% his doing.

It doesn't matter that they eventually gave him a title fight. The point is that Chis went to full training camp, sparring etc ll at his expense and Wlad renaged. That's the bottom line. Offered nothing in return. Poor show. Classless.

I agree that Haye is talking his way into a title fight. He doesn't deserve one. But that doesn't excuse K2 dicking Chisora.

You will find that I am very consistent on this subject. When something is wrong I'll call it wrong. I wont call a spade a digging impliment.

Point is Chis lost money on the proposed Wlad fight and fights that could have happened.

azania - can you provide a link for chisora not recieving compo please