Lancasters Changes

I have read that Lancaster wants to make 1 or 2 changes to the lineup for this weekend, having kept the same team for the first 2 tests. This is a good sign from the management they recognise the need for changes against a good Wales side and for a good performance at Twickenham. I personally have no problem with the 2 defensive performances away from home, particularly as they won both but now back at HQ England need to show a willingness, at the very least, to attack.

Its clear that some players have not played very well yet (some may not be up to it at all) and of course there are some returning from injury. Lawes, Flood and tuilagi all looked a little rusty last weekend and I dont think its a given that they'll all return to the 22 even, from what I have read it sounds like tuilagi is the only one in with a chance of starting. Many consider Lawes a given but I think england may need both palmer and parling in the 22 to bolster the lineout options, and lawes did look slightly off the pace for northamton. Flood was a mixed bag, he looked good in flashes but a little indecisive at times, fly half isnt a role you want to juggle around mid-tournament unless you have to.

I can really see there being just the 2 changes dickson in at scrum half with youngs benched ready to come on second half, perhaps when the game is more open. And Morgan at no. 8, I still dont know much about the lad, he looks exciting. Dowson seemed to be a defensive option with more breakdown nouse and less instinctive play off the base.

Considering Lancaster has said 1 or 2 changes and he really is unlikely to make more than 3 IMO, who do you realistically think those changes will be and why?

If there are to be only two changes then Dickson and Morgan are the most favoured. Still not sure what he will do to bring Tuilagi in the team. Will he drop Barrit (imho Englands best player so far) or Farrell (loosing his kicking abilities).

Difficult choice for me.

the only way farrell can be dropped is if flood starts, which i dont think will happen, its barritt or tuilagi. tuilagi hasnt really trained much in the new setup not sure if he should be thrown straight in.

I dont know, i have said on many posts that i like the idea of Farrell going to 10 and keeping Barrit in the centres with Tuilagi.

Morgan and Dickson are dead certs to start in my books

Tuilagi is our only truly world class game breaker and has to start. Barrit and Tuilagi would be the perfect option up against Davies and Roberts.

Personally is go Flood at 10 with Farrell on the bench an.d sadly no place for Hodgson in the 22. Would also have Lawes on the bench and start Parling and Palmer

As an outsider I would definitely bring in Morgan, Dickson and Tuilagi and entrust the kicking to Hodgson.

Very tough on Farrell but at the end of the day Tuilagi gives the English midfield a potency which it lacks with the Saracen boys.
The physicality in the centres will be a big help also.

Flood didn't look ready at the weekend and the fact he bottled the drop goal and Murphy had to the business is not really acceptable. Players need to stand up and be counted - Flood hid.

Damn this two week gap! I think I've talked myself into and out of just about every conceivable selection alternative. Knew I was in trouble when I recalled Deano at 8.

Flood didn't look ready at the weekend and the fact he bottled the drop goal and Murphy had to the business is not really acceptable.

Do you know he bottled it? I'm not saying you are wrong for sure, but to me it was a very Geordan thing to do, call that kick to himself as Captain - especially after he gave the team a serious talk on what it means to play for Tigers after the Exeter game.

If anyone has definite info on that, I'd love to know.

To me when i watched it, it looked all Geordan. Flood may not have been having the best match and Geordan knew this so took the decision himself.

That was my impression. But I was watching (a) with my Tigers eyes and (b) highlights so don't altogether trust said impression (after all, I thought it was a great game )

Cowshot wrote:That was my impression. But I was watching (a) with my Tigers eyes and (b) highlights so don't altogether trust said impression (after all, I thought it was a great game )

Liecester fanboy

Looked to me like he bottled it. A couple of times he was in position but didn't call it. It was only after some 15 phases or so that Murphy seemed to take charge of the situation. If it was always going to be Murphy I believe he would have been in position earlier

You do have a point Geoff, there were a couple of times that Flood could have taken it but i honestly think that they were trying to get better position.

Boom Boom
Boom-boom-boom
Boom-boom-boom-boom TIGERS!

geoff: Yeah, you could be right. That's why I was asking if anyone had definite info - there's a reasonable case to be made both ways.

Morgan - A must
Dickenson - Yup..will go with that,.

How on Earth can we not play Barritt. Best player so far.

As said above...

12.Barritt
13. Tuilagi

and pray Hodgson has a good day with the boot.....

As Geordie has said basically. Let's not forget that Hodgson is the all time top Jeff points scorer, and whilst he has been wayward sometimes on the international stage I think he can be trusted to give it a go. It's if it affects his all round game that is the real question.

Having read a few interviews with Lancaster I think he'll err on the side of caution re: selection. He has stated that his bench 'will have a prominent role in the second half'. I think he'll do something like:

5. Parling
8. Morgan
9. Youngs

18. Palmer 19. Dowson 20. Dickson 21. Flood 22. Tuilagi

I know he may be over-catered for in the FH department but I think he'll want to see what these two offer from the bench rather than starting. That would be my guess anyway, although I think it will be a mistake.

Hodgson, Barritt, Tuilagi.

If he plays like he did against the Maori Hodgson would be brilliant in that backline. If not then Flood on the bench to come on.
Barritt was our best back of the two games and if nothing else what message does that send to the other players if he's dropped?
Tuilagi looked a class above every other back on the pitch against Saracens, he has to play.

It won't kill Farrell to be dropped for a game, he's already got more game time then nearly any other 20yr old English player in the country currently! He's had a taste of internationals and hopefully now knows what he needs to work on. If on the hard grounds of SA he can show a competent attacking game then yes he could be the future 10 we need.

How on Earth can we not play Barritt. Best player so far.

As said above...

12.Barritt
13. Tuilagi

and pray Hodgson has a good day with the boot......

If Hodgson doesn't bring Farrell off the bench or if it's a real concern find a place for Homer on the wing.

Flood didn't look ready at the weekend and the fact he bottled the drop goal and Murphy had to the business is not really acceptable

Well he didn't though did he. He was patient and helped manouvere the Tigers pack into range for the drop goal with some good flat passing (remember he put Manu into the gap for the break from the 22 which created the chance in the first place). When in range he yelled for it repeatedly but Grindal ignored him twice using the forwards and once going himself. By the time they were finished they were very close Grindal threw an awful pass and Flood recycled the ball rather than rushing the kick and then by the time he'd got back into position Murphy and Agulla were also in the pocket calling for the ball. Murphy got it and slotted the kick.

I was impressed that a)he didn't snatch at it and b) that he was patient enough to use his forwards and then when it wasn't on recycle and build. We lost the AP final because he kept trying to force moves late close to the Sarries line (among other things as well). Not sure why he's getting so much stick in a game where he utilised the backs well enough and where his points kicking made a telling difference to the result. Quite frankly what we may lose in tactical kicking by selecting Flood we'll gain more of in attacking options (in that the backs will have some).

Drop Hodgson? England's top (only) try-scorer so far?

That was my take sam.

I was astounded at the awful pass from Grindal for Floods first attempt at the DG, if i'd passed like that to my fh in that position i'd be hearing about it all evening!

And yes Scotland showed what can happen when you do rush the dg!

Floods patience reminded me of Evans against Stade years ago. You have to really back yourself when you have a kickable option but still go forwards, as it only adds to the pressure.

The thing with a drop goal in extra time is you only get one shot. If you rush it and miss then it's game over and you lose. Sarries weren't defending with all their numbers as they were keeping defenders out for the charge down. Might as well use that to your advantage.

I seem to remember Evans getting the plaudits for his approach, then again he is more popular than Flood with Mr Barnes. To be honest I don't think it will matter as unless England have an attacking backs division taking the game to Wales then they'll be no need for a last minute drop goal as we'll be 20 odd points behind. Not that Farrell or Hodgson are particular drop goal experts anyway.

formerly known as Sam wrote:
I seem to remember Evans getting the plaudits for his approach, then again he is more popular than Flood with Mr Barnes.

Not to criticize Flood at all, but the difference was that Evans twice made fantastic breaks dodging the rush defence before eventually getting the drop goal himself. I don't think Flood did anything particularly wrong, and he did well to not rush into taking it too soon, but he didn't do anything spectacular either.

On another note - what do people think now about giving Marler a go off the bench? Whatever scrum problems he has had in the past (and I always put those down more to the tighthead than him), the Quins scrum out of nowhere has suddenly turned into a huge strength since the turn of the year, and he got Man of the Match on Saturday.

I'm with Sam - no bottling there. Flood made the right decision not to take th dg on. He was definitely going to get charged down. Sarries would probably have galloped downfield to score under the posts and deny Tigers a bonus point.

Flood went back to his pack to set up another chance, which Murphy (just about) took. But he was also a whisker away from being charged down. I don't know if he meant to drill the ball under the arms of the Sarries defenders, but it was the only way that kick could have made it.

Not to criticize Flood at all, but the difference was that Evans twice made fantastic breaks dodging the rush defence before eventually getting the drop goal himself. I don't think Flood did anything particularly wrong, and he did well to not rush into taking it too soon, but he didn't do anything spectacular either..

Well he did orchestrate the original break by Manu which took Tigers from their own 22 deep into Sarries territory (of course Manu's excellent grubber helped). His miss pass once again got Manu on the rampage and Tigers into the 22 where twice he utilise forwards support to break the gainline before the previously discussed drop goal fun.

Not as spectacular as Evans (few are) but his ability to read the game and cool head played a significant part in us going from our own 22 with 2 mins on the clock to the Sarries 22 and a drop goal victory in extra time. Certainly that perfect pass to put Manu into a couple of metres of space in the Tigers 22 was the game changer.

I'd play Marler off the bench. But I'm biased. Plus Stevens didn't exactly shine against Ayerza...

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Not to criticize Flood at all, but the difference was that Evans twice made fantastic breaks dodging the rush defence before eventually getting the drop goal himself. I don't think Flood did anything particularly wrong, and he did well to not rush into taking it too soon, but he didn't do anything spectacular either..

Well he did orchestrate the original break by Manu which took Tigers from their own 22 deep into Sarries territory (of course Manu's excellent grubber helped). His miss pass once again got Manu on the rampage and Tigers into the 22 where twice he utilise forwards support to break the gainline before the previously discussed drop goal fun.

Not as spectacular as Evans (few are) but his ability to read the game and cool head played a significant part in us going from our own 22 with 2 mins on the clock to the Sarries 22 and a drop goal victory in extra time. Certainly that perfect pass to put Manu into a couple of metres of space in the Tigers 22 was the game changer.

As long as the drop goal eventually went over, Flood made the right option

I agree with that to an extent, although I think that was aided by one of the Saracens defenders stepping in. What do you think on the Marler question? (I seem to remember you being one of those who didn't rate him when the squad was announced)

i think england will beat wales. carry on.

If it were me I think I'd pick:

Corbisiero
Hartley
Cole
Palmer
Lawes
Robshaw
Morgan
Croft

Dickson
Flood
Barritt
Tuilagi
Strettle
Foden
Ashton

Farrell has been solid but I don't think he'll stop the Welsh breaking the gain line, and he's not offered anything in attack. Neither has Hodgson really. Flood deserves to be considered our number one fly half as far as I'm concerned. Get him back in there with our best two centres and a sharp scrum-half, behind a pack with some ball-carriers...

ChequeredJersey wrote:I'd play Marler off the bench. But I'm biased. Plus Stevens didn't exactly shine against Ayerza...

Agree there. Marler was fantastic this weekend, seriously impressed with the lad. His work in the loose could be a great asset this weekend.

I agree with that to an extent, although I think that was aided by one of the Saracens defenders stepping in. What do you think on the Marler question? (I seem to remember you being one of those who didn't rate him when the squad was announced).

I only saw the first bit of the game and he only played a part in the first scrum which was a penalty to Quins so he must have been doing something right. Stevens took a kicking at the weekend on his preferred tighthead side Ayerza took him back to school. Off the bench you expect an international prop to do better than that, especially, against a loosehead that's already played about an hour and has had to expel plenty of effort taking apart the preceeding international tighthead (Nieto).

I'd be tempted to give Marler a go, though if anything happens to Cole the English scrum will be royally spanked around Twickernham as neither Marler or Corbs are great scrummagers (they are good/fair ones) and neither are much cop at tighthead. Having said that the weather is improving and Wales are going to play a mobile game, England need more carrying options and with Steven's dodgey form we might as well throw Marler onto the bench. If Lancaster maintains the awful midfield we've been using then the likes of Marler, Youngs, Flood and Manu off the bench will be helpful for when we have to chase the game.

I watched the Tigers game and i thought that Flood looked good some of the time, but not all of the time. Tualagi, i thought he looked realy sharp in my mind.

If they are going to play Tualgi, and Brrit, then i would say put Hogdson on the bench and give Flood more time with the Tigers.

Farrel

Tualagi

Barrit.

I was under the impression that Corbisiero was pretty competent at tighthead? Marler continued scrummaging very well and, aside from two or three binding penalties from Johnston, the Quins scrum was on top all game. Marler managed to disrupt the scrum enough to get the Worcester 8 caught at the base at least twice and showed good hands to put Easter through (on the break which led to Garvey's injury).

I was banking on Corbisiero being decent at tighthead, so you're right if that's not true then Cole getting injured could be an issue, but I can't remember ever seeing Cole get injured before, so it could be a slight risk definitely worth taking.

I hope he picks Tuilagi. It'll be interesting to see how well he defends against the Wales midfield..

Corbs did flirt with the 3 shirt at LI but he didn't fare well there and has become more and more a specialist loosehead. I wouldn't be confident of sending him up against the Welsh front row at tighthead, then again it would only be if Cole was injured. Might be worth a gamble.

majesticimperialman Farrell is the least creative of the three squad options, why start him? Flood is probably at 80% of his best so there may be some wisdom in allowing him another week at Tigers if England can afford to do so (I'm not sure they can).

Given how well he defended at the world cup, and the damage he caused to other teams, I'd say it would be more interesting to see how the Welsh midfield defends against him.

Bias aside, the Welsh centres are very powerful and skilful, so whilst these things are rarely so simple as Davies vs Tuilagi or North vs Ashton (except maybe on first phase), it should still be a great match up.

formerly known as Sam wrote: Flood is probably at 80% of his best so there may be some wisdom in allowing him another week at Tigers if England can afford to do so (I'm not sure they can).

Even better - they could give him two more weeks there, with the 6N having another rest week before the France game.

Back on the prop situation - is Corbisiero at 3 more of a risk than Stevens at 1? And does Corbs, Hartley, Stevens sound much more solid to you than Marler, Hartley, Corbs? And if so, how does what we would lose in the set piece compare to what we would gain elsewhere?

Every time Stevens has come off the bench he's given away penalties at the scrum and we've looked weaker. Tbh I don't think Marler is ready yet, but i'm not sure who else there is. If only internationals had the 23 man squad so there's the extra prop!

And Manu's grubber was more then a little lucky with the bounce, I was a bit dissapointed to see no one supported him on the break.

yappy

I think england have a wealth of props that would be comfortable at test level.

corbs, cole, marler, mullen, wilson, doran jones, stevens, wood
also
err sheridan, golding, harden, thomas, im sure im still missing some

i dont think any of these guys would drastically let the side down.. and i dont think there many other nations that could name a list of potential candidates as long as this. i guess its about picking the guys that have the right mentality to be world beaters.

sorry if i have gone over the top on this but surely props are a position of strength for england

Palmer has been dropped.

Glas a du wrote:Palmer has been dropped.

Why, is he injured? He has looked pretty good to me so far.

Don't think so, he's been released back to his club.

Thats very odd then Glas, i thought that he was playing very well for England.

eirebilly wrote:Thats very odd then Glas, i thought that he was playing very well for England.

He was ok but Parling shored up the line out when he came on & is arguably quicker round the park.
Our line out will be crucial against Wales & Palmer was running it against Italy when we lost a few.

Fair enough BigTrev, personally i think that its a very big call but SL hasnt done too much wrong so far in my eyes.

His honeymoon period doesn't look much of a honeymoon though does it? Perhaps they always wanted to do just enough away to keep their powder dry for Wales and Ireland. They need to step up now or Paris will be painful.

And Manu's grubber was more then a little lucky with the bounce, I was a bit dissapointed to see no one supported him on the break..

It's a grubber, you try to put it in the right area and hope for a good bounce. He put it in the right area and chased, Alex Goode could have dived on it and tried his luck but didn't fancy it. It was disappointing not to see any of the outside backs appearing on his shoulder he really wasn't left much choice but to opt for a kick and at least he chose a good one.

I've watched that grubber a few times and I still can't work out if it deflects off the first Saracens player or not. You're right though it was all he could do as he had no support.

Another outside observation Stevens should be nowhere near your squad.

Everytime I have seen him this year his scrummaging has been appalling

eirebilly wrote:Fair enough BigTrev, personally i think that its a very big call but SL hasnt done too much wrong so far in my eyes.

I agree on our starters. JTH on the bench and now Flood and Tuilagi on the bench though?