Loan Players - Is it right?

Is it right that in this era of rugby where by Clubs/Regions and Provinces have large resources that they are allowed to loan and have loan players on short term contracts?

Peter Stringers spell at Sarries is due to end soon and as soon as it does he’ll be of to Newcastle for the rest of the season, this raises a couple of points.

1 - Why did a club like Sarries with their resources (and finances) need a loaned player?
2 – Why have Munster loaned him when they have called on the services of Waikato and Chiefs centre/wing Save Tokula due to injuries, I’m sorry but that is life a Province like Munster should have enough depth in the squad to cover for this type of problem.

To me this is wrong and I hope the 'powers that be' put a stop to it soon.

Hersh I agree with you. I am not happy by the fact that Munster has twice this year brought in some fella for 2-3 months. I would say that the only time it should be permitted is for front row cover as safety.

Agreed.

Its not right and it stops a young lad having to step up to the plate.

It is fair enough for a Province, who can call on anybody they like within the feeder clubs to say that there can be no loans. Tougher on clubs who have to register a fixed number of players as should they lose 4 SHs say, may have to play someone out of position.

At centre Munster have Danny Barnes (has played centre in the HEC), Keith Earls (has played for Ireland, Lions and in the HEC at centre), Lifeimi Mafi (has played at centre for 6 years for Munster) and JJ Hanrahan (Ireland U20 centre). We also have Ian Keatley (played for Connacht and Ireland A at centre) and Johne Murphy (played for Munster in the HEC at centre).

We are inconvenienced as the options aren't as good as they could be but to me that is simply tough. We have take steps to resolve this by signing Casey Laulala and James Downey but I think that it defeats the purposes of a squad with these signings.

LondonTiger wrote:It is fair enough for a Province, who can call on anybody they like within the feeder clubs to say that there can be no loans. Tougher on clubs who have to register a fixed number of players as should they lose 4 SHs say, may have to play someone out of position.

The NZ Super XV teams are limited to 28-man squads, with a 6 man "wider training group" who train with the main squad, and who can be called up to cover injuries. Add in compulsory rests for All Blacks (generally SXV managers can choose which weeks they rest AB's for, and games missed through injury count as "rests" at least) and it becomes an interesting puzzle.

Ulster took on Terblanche when Payne was injured.

That left us with only one professional 15 at the club - D'Arcy.

I agree with the new IRFU ruling that injury cover now has to be IQ, it means acamady guys etc will be pushed up the pecking order. and maybe someone from the iriah league is picked to the bench.

To be fair Stringers loan to Sarries has worked out for all concerned. Stringer gets game time. Sarries get an excellent hugely experienced short term solution to a scrum half injury crisis. As for Munster, Duncan Williams is getting game time in the Rabbo which he wouldn't normally have had. Every one's a winner

geoff998rugby wrote:Ulster took on Terblanche when Payne was injured.

That left us with only one professional 15 at the club - D'Arcy.

But why couldn't Ulster have played an Academy lad or Gilroy or Danielli there? Yes it would have been an inconvenience but thats life somtimes. I dont agree anything that a province should have to resort to these short term deals which Munster (Chambers and Tokula), Leinster (Thorn) and Ulster (Terblanche) have all used this season.

Agree submachinegun.

HERSH Saracens had two of their frontline scrum halves - Wigglesworth and De Kock out for at least 4 months.

It was beneficial to Saracens to have an experienced player like Stringer to step in. Especially when fighting on two fronts - the HC and AP.

I believe but might be wrong that Stringer was 3rd choice scrum half for Munster so wanted some game time.

Personally I feel loan signings should be utilised more often so that players, particularly youngsters, who aren't getting game time (or are surplus to requirements) at one club/region/province can move easily to another (potentially poorer) club who need short term cover.

It also allows that club to develop their own youngsters more slowly and means that their players benefit from playing at higher intensity/going further in competitions.

Without loans you have loads of promising players warming the bench at one club while another club is screaming out for players in that position

red_stag wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Ulster took on Terblanche when Payne was injured.

That left us with only one professional 15 at the club - D'Arcy.

But why couldn't Ulster have played an Academy lad or Gilroy or Danielli there? Yes it would have been an inconvenience but thats life somtimes. I dont agree anything that a province should have to resort to these short term deals which Munster (Chambers and Tokula), Leinster (Thorn) and Ulster (Terblanche) have all used this season.

Which Academy lad ?

Nelson was the nearest we had to an Academy 15 and he got injured as well.
Danielli is not a 15 as his handful of performances showed.
Gilroy is a developing winger who I would like like to see him moved around.
Ulster's squad does not have the depth of Munster

For Ulster I really cant remember the last short term contract - this is exceptional.
Even for him it will be 5/6 months by time he leaves - best part of a season.

Nelson was who I was thinking of. Red haired lad.

As above - got injured as well

Yea I see that now.

In fairness, Geoff, we had Emerick just last season.

Ulster are currently 7th in the Rabo league. It'll be a struggle to make the play-offs.

Would it be better if we were ninth but an eighteen-year old had played a couple of games? What would Nelson have learned in a backline from Spence and Gilroy? I'd suggest that Gilroy, Spence, Gaston et al are better players - young talent that has been improved - by playinng with Terblanch. That is the other side of the balance to Nelson, individually, being a bit more experienced.

I don't like the loan system at all. With the exception of the front row, where safety does need to come first, I don't see why backs in particular should be signed for a couple of months as cover. Surely thats exactly what an academy/arrangements with feeder type clubs are for.
To use the Ulster example above, Danielli isnt a fullback no, but shouldnt that just be tough luck and someone will have to play out of position?

I forgot about Emerick and I would agree with that loan being pointless.

He was crap and no better than the kids - in fact worse.

Dont see why the play offs are a struggle - if Munster and Ulster win tonight Ulster will be 4th and the next 4 games after that are against four of the bottom five.
It is very much in our own hands.

Bathman_in_London wrote:I don't like the loan system at all. With the exception of the front row, where safety does need to come first, I don't see why backs in particular should be signed for a couple of months as cover. Surely thats exactly what an academy/arrangements with feeder type clubs are for.
To use the Ulster example above, Danielli isnt a fullback no, but shouldnt that just be tough luck and someone will have to play out of position?

As per my comment regarding Munster some clubs/provinces have much smaller squads and dont have the same level of cover. When we played Leicester for example I worked out they had 9 more full time professionals than us - far more able to cover injuries.

One thing I would suggest is that if you sign someone on mid season they have to be given a contract to the end of the season and it must be for a minimum of 4 months. That seems to me a reasonable compromise

Just my outlook, Geoff - quite a bit of Tigger, but when it comes to things like this, I'm mostly Eeyore.

Having said that, now that those bare facts have been pointed out to me, I'm a bit more hopeful!

I think we have reach the 'can't afford another slip up' stage. We have to win our 4 home games and at least 1 away game.

As the 3 away games are Treviso, Connacht, Munster we are in with a shout.

red_stag wrote:At centre Munster have Danny Barnes (has played centre in the HEC), Keith Earls (has played for Ireland, Lions and in the HEC at centre), Lifeimi Mafi (has played at centre for 6 years for Munster) and JJ Hanrahan (Ireland U20 centre). We also have Ian Keatley (played for Connacht and Ireland A at centre) and Johne Murphy (played for Munster in the HEC at centre).

We are inconvenienced as the options aren't as good as they could be but to me that is simply tough. We have take steps to resolve this by signing Casey Laulala and James Downey but I think that it defeats the purposes of a squad with these signings.

Munster were down two centres from last season which were not replaced - Barry Murphy & Sammy. Then Warwick who played there sometimes, is also gone.

Johne is not a centre - anyway, he was needed for the back 3 with Felix & Hurly out at the start of the season. We were also down Ian Dowling who had to retire last season. Then Dougie got injured.

Hanrahan might be up to playing 12 at the end of the season, but it is doubtful he would have been up to it at the start.

Keatley has just arrived and ROG was at the world cup. He needed gametime at 10 with the team for starters.

So basically, at the start of the season we were down to two centres - Barnes & Mafi. Just because Chambers didn't stay doesn't mean he wasn't needed. Just as well we had him, Earls injured and Barnes losing a bit of form (probably from being overplayed).