The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub

First topic message reminder :

Welcome to the Virtual Rugby Pub - a place where you can come in for a sly beverage and discuss whatever's on your mind, or just eavesdrop on the regulars if you fancy a break from all the rugby chat.

The only rule in this pub is one of mutual respect for everyone in it, oh and no defacing the pictures of Ben Morgan, Stuart Hogg, Simon Zebo and birthday boy Penfro above the bar.



Old pub: https://www.606v2.com/t24147p1000-the-dew-drop-inn-virtual-rugby-pub#991906

Actually?

Did I ignore him so sucessfully that I wasn't even aware I done it?



Or have I ignored my ignoring of him?

There are certain bits of him better ignored than others

Awwh!

My wee tartan skirted Scotty!



You know I mean it really, don't you?

Yes, i know you mean every word

Fixed it for ya!

The Story of Wales:

"The Romans march out of our history and leave the Christian Brythons to fend for themselves. They have to deal with new threats, Irish pirates and Anglo Saxon invaders..."

Glas a du wrote:The Story of Wales:

"The Romans march out of our history and leave the Christian Brythons to fend for themselves. They have to deal with new threats, Irish pirates and Anglo Saxon invaders..."

Will ye cope?

It seems that North Wales was invaded by Scots and West Wales by the Irish. Explains a lot

You watching that on i-Player Glas ? Watched it last night, good introduction to our story. I like Huw Edwards as a presenter. Next week should be interesting

Irish and Scottish regs. Were you history's shown on your national television before then being shown on network BBC or did they get shown straight away on network BBC ?

My dad's bt box thing. Watched the match again and the Jeff highlights. English club rugby is amazingly cynical.

PenfroPete wrote:You watching that on i-Player Glas ? Watched it last night, good introduction to our story. I like Huw Edwards as a presenter. Next week should be interesting

Irish and Scottish regs. Were you history's shown on your national television before then being shown on network BBC or did they get shown straight away on network BBC ?

Our history didn't make it back to the editing room. We killed the filmcrew and ate them...with some fava beans and a nice chianti. People don't get it abroad...but we're still on chapter one of our history here;

Chapter 1: Primitive inhabitants.

"Ireland. Land of mists and legen............................ "

That's all they got on camera.

Mists and legends? Rain and blarney

Glas a du wrote:Mists and legends? Rain and blarney

If the guy had said "Rain and blarney" he and his crew might have lived. But our ancestors who live in 12. Beechmount Avenue, Thurles are rightly sick of documentary crews coming to Ireland and waffling about the mists and legends.... PLUS...it was dinnertime anyway.

BBCNI did a series "The Story of Ireland", last year I think. Feargal Keane was the narrator. Not sure if it went on the full network.

Be interested in your response. Some of these history docs can be quite thin. I was chatting to a South African historian aboiut the recent BBC Four about the series they did on apartheid a few weeks back and he felt it missed the main point as to why apartheid was introduced.

I thought "The Story of Ireland" was excellent, but I stand to be corrected by Kia with her professional insight.

And by the way, Kia- congratulations on imminent grandparenthood

Thanks Notch for the copngrats.

I enjoyed it, but I suspect a lot of historians in Ireland were a bit iffy about it. The main historical consultant on it was Roy Foster, Prof of Irish History at Oxford and one of the leading "revisionists" of Irish history. In that guise he has upset a lot of other Irish historians. But I have come to know him over the past few years and I don't understand why he is disliked - it could be professional jealousy

Just rewatching it now - 6 minutes in and Keane is in Newgrange!!!

Did Connacht just outbid the Dragons for Dan Parks? Will the last one out of the Welsh regions please turn out the lights.

KiaRose wrote:BBCNI did a series "The Story of Ireland", last year I think. Feargal Keane was the narrator. Not sure if it went on the full network.

Be interested in your response. Some of these history docs can be quite thin. I was chatting to a South African historian aboiut the recent BBC Four about the series they did on apartheid a few weeks back and he felt it missed the main point as to why apartheid was introduced.

What was his main point about why Apartheid was introduced? Just out of interest. But I think it's also pertinent to point out that historians are themselves part of history, as readily influenced by it as journalists, politicians, soldiers and citizens.

In case anyone's interested here's a link to 'The Story of Wales'. The first episode was quite interesting. It must be quite difficult putting something like this together though.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00mlrq9

There was a guy on the Welsh one who argued the Celts followed the coast From Spain and France to Ireland and worked East and South back through Britain rather than just coming directly north and west from Europe.

Miss G has diagnosed the cause of my back pain: "drinking too much beer in Ireland"

rhino-dragon wrote:Did Connacht just outbid the Dragons for Dan Parks? Will the last one out of the Welsh regions please turn out the lights.

Were Dragons interested Rhino- wow.

I guess my question were the Welsh system is- where has the money gone? I see the Millennium Stadium packed out and then you can't afford to keep your best players in the country.

SecretFly wrote:
What was his main point about why Apartheid was introduced? Just out of interest. But I think it's also pertinent to point out that historians are themselves part of history, as readily influenced by it as journalists, politicians, soldiers and citizens.

He was living in SA during the late 80s early 90s when apartheid collapsed and was teaching in one of the Universities there but I can't remember which one.

Apartheid was introduced because of the very large number of poor whites who were in a more parlous economic state than the blacks at the time (sorry if this is not PC, but absolutely no offence intended). The poor whites were mainly Boers. British influence was limited to the SW area around the Cape. The Dutch, who were the first white settlers had moved east in an attempt to maintain their identity separate from the British (The Great Trek in about 1834 or 1838, can't remember which). With the discovery of diamonds and gold, a sifnificant part of the economy changed from agricultural to mining.

The journalists who went to SA in the 80s and 90s to report on apartheid and resistance to it saw the houses and settlements of the rich white people. They rarely if ever ventured into the poor white areas, some of which were worse than the black townships. Therefore the journalists' reading of SA and apartheid was distorted because of their perception of the relative wealth of the two peoples.

It's the salary cap. There will be Welsh players leaving. It is an exciting period. With the exodus to league the players were lost to the international team, I think this exodus will strengthen the national team and will force the regions to develop talent. They have to get the punters in if they want to survive.

2 regions, East and West within 3 years anyone?

Glas a du wrote:It's the salary cap. There will be Welsh players leaving. It is an exciting period. With the exodus to league the players were lost to the international team, I think this exodus will strengthen the national team and will force the regions to develop talent. They have to get the punters in if they want to survive.

2 regions, East and West within 3 years anyone?

Would that mean only two pro teams, Glas? Surely Wales can support more than that. I am still surprised that people haven't taken to the regions. I KNOW all the arguments against and the reasons why people still want to go see the teams they used to watch, but the old system was not sustainable.

The Blues gamble with the CCS has backfired. They have asked the union for more of the pot by turning one region (the Dragons) into a Connacht style development region. Carmarthenshire are keeping the Scarlets afloat. The Dragons are spending next to nothing and the Ospreys have a benefactor, but who knows when he will pack it in? If Cardiff City get to the Premiership then the Blues and Ospreys gates will be hit even further. The Poopie is going to hit the fan.

All seems rather sad to me, especially as the national team are going so well.

Not sure how you fix that sort of situation. Looking across the water, although Ireland were very fortunate to have the provinces in place and there was identification amongst the fans before the pro era (witness the number of people who claim to have been in Thomond when Munster beat the ABs in 1978), a lot of work still had to be done to make the teams work professionally. Much of this was done by the drive of the supporters' clubs and there were probably just a few who made those happen. Can the Regions in Wales not fire the imagination of their supporters so that they foloow their team in the way that the Munster fans followed theirs? The "family" of Munster included the players, coaches AND the fans. After a game any player who had not performed knew that he had not only let down his teammates, but also the guys who had travelled all that way.

I was interested to hear after the cancellation of the France Ireland match that most of Declan Kidney's words were for the Irish fans who had gone to Paris. he knew what it had cost them to do so.

Welsh regional rugby needs a sugar daddies, but not ones who will support the clubs, people who will create a following amongst the fans who will commit to seeing the teams play and will not be sidelined by Cardiff getting into the Footie Premiership.

Anyway, off to learn to knit - night all

KiaRose wrote:
Apartheid was introduced because of the very large number of poor whites who were in a more parlous economic state than the blacks at the time (sorry if this is not PC, but absolutely no offence intended). The poor whites were mainly Boers.

The journalists who went to SA in the 80s and 90s to report on apartheid and resistance to it saw the houses and settlements of the rich white people. They rarely if ever ventured into the poor white areas, some of which were worse than the black townships. Therefore the journalists' reading of SA and apartheid was distorted because of their perception of the relative wealth of the two peoples.

I don't know how apartheid offered a 'fair' solution to the problems of poor whites though, given that it was whites that introduced the apartheid policy. I mean to say the whites had the real physical power to impose a divisive system on the black (and white) population but try to suggest they didn't have the real physical power to change the living circumstances of the poor whites through supportive policies alone. Of course it was deeply cultural, and you are victim of your culture until you educate yourself and move on, but the idea that poor blacks and poor whites were separate entites in the one country was basically the very idea the outside world didn't like. Rather than there being poor whites and poor blacks... the purely political solution was to address the problem of poor South Africans.

Anyway, thanks for highlighting his thoughts on the subject.

Scarlets have already been doing that for years, Kia

What is starting to annoy me is that now the Scarlets are finally getting back on the right track after 4 wobbly years, all the other regions are starting to fall apart! Annoying as the way things are it's working very well for us, although obviously it's nervous times for us too waiting to see if some of our star players are going to re-sign.

I think we'll stay as 4 regions, just that the other three are going to have to go through the same 3 dud seasons that the Scarlets did. It's whether or not their fans will stay loyal enough to them during that time to keep them afloat. It's going to be a very turbulant time.

Ospreys are 2nd aren't they? They're hardly in decline.................... yet.

No the O's squad are okay, backroom staff though? Not so good. Also their crowds have become dire this season. All is not well in Ospreylia...

Then again, Scarlets could easily go jubblies up again knowing us. Fans are happy enough at the moment (which still isn't very), but we're going to have to start winning things soon, and definitely need to keep a hold of our Welsh internationals.

Good night Kia

The regions should have been:

Gwent - Newport, Ebbw Vale
Glamorgan - Cardiff, Bridgend, Pontypridd
Dyfed - Llanelli, Swansea, Neath
Gwynedd - Wrexham, development

The players should have been centrally contracted and drafted to the Premiership clubs. The under 20 internationals would be similarly drafted. The regions would not be clubs but representative teams coached by WRU appointees.

But that was then, Flip knows how you sort it out now.

Whats strange is that Cardiff are actually doing well this season- Heineken Cup quarter-final and a great chance of reaching the Pro12 playoffs- and have done well in previous seasons. They had such obvious potential to be a force in Europe which has been undermined by really, really bad decisions being made off field. If they suffer a player exodus they could sink into mediocrity for the next few years.

Breaking news on bbc... 2 Welsh internationals arrested in Cardiff on Saturday night.......

What do you mean if? They are suffering a player exodus.

ha I love that I've just read back that I wrote tahat the Scarlets have gone through 3 dud seasons, but as we've yet to win anything you could argue that we are still having dud seasons. Me thinks I don't want to focus on that....


Glas - should have been aye, but I don't think Llanelli, Swansea and Neath would ever have worked. Swansea and Neath don't work, look how little they get on! The friction between them is completely undermining the O's as a region.

Rodders - aye , Sweeney and Tom James (idiots!), it's been mentioned on the Blues in meltdown thread

But it could get worse when the likes of Roberts, B. Davies, Warburton and Halfpennys contracts come up for renewal. And then the likes of Rush and Tito must be nearing the end of their careers?

Player exodus is tough perhaps...but it's also opportunity. I mean that's the only positive spin you can put on it. And the regions have to look for the positives and wallowing won't produce anything.

There will be opportunities for young players, hungry for a chance, ready to perhaps fight more honestly (in the first years anyway) than more settled players, ready to more obediently follow gameplans or patterns, ready to listen and learn.

You could allude to Wales International. Gatland offloaded some of the old guard, trusted new players and players from regions that weren't so high in the league (and therefore hadn't proven themselves sufficiently at that level)...and they returned his trust at a higher level - so far.

ah ok dreamer...was kind of hoping it was Warburton and Roberts to give the rest of us a chance in the 6N......

ha, wishful thinking

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2012/02/28/cardiff-blues-players-tom-james-and-ceri-sweeney-arrested-on-suspicion-of-assault-after-wales-triple-crown-victory-91466-30426559/#ixzz1nhtknXst


Secret Fly - so the other regions just have to do what the Scarlets have been doing for 2 years now?

Glas a du wrote:The Blues gamble with the CCS has backfired. They have asked the union for more of the pot by turning one region (the Dragons) into a Connacht style development region. Carmarthenshire are keeping the Scarlets afloat. The Dragons are spending next to nothing and the Ospreys have a benefactor, but who knows when he will pack it in?

Is that true?

Evening all?

What would count as a none dud season for the Scarlets Dreamer?

Well, I know winning the HEC would probably get the nod but I mean bare minimum? Pro12 playoffs? HEC quarter?

Dreamer, a business partnership of even numbers never works. 1 or 3 is fine.

You'd have to have one dominant factor though wouldn't you? Honestly can't see how those three clubs could ever have worked together.

rugbydreamer wrote:ha, wishful thinking

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2012/02/28/cardiff-blues-players-tom-james-and-ceri-sweeney-arrested-on-suspicion-of-assault-after-wales-triple-crown-victory-91466-30426559/#ixzz1nhtknXst


Secret Fly - so the other regions just have to do what the Scarlets have been doing for 2 years now?

What? Whistle Dixie? No, no - it'll need a little more than that.

Have you ever seen a Mexican stand off? It's called the balance of power.

My point though is that they wouldn't have to. The regions would not have been formed of the existing clubs but would be branches of the WRU.

oooooooooooo expect some news about Foxy tomorrow, if what I've read it right then (please, please let it be true!)

Glas, did you see my question? Is it true that the Blues are trying to get the Dragons 'downgraded' so that they can get more money from the WRU?

rugbydreamer wrote:oooooooooooo expect some news about Foxy tomorrow, if what I've read it right then :D:D

Hasn't he just signed a new contract? I read that a few minutes ago there.