Owen Farrell - I must be in a minority

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Personally I felt it was an OK performance by Farrell, but people on here and in the press are raving about his performance.

For me England were let down by Farrell's first instict to kick the ball. On several occassions the forwards (usually the front row) had secured turnover and with men over Farrell kicked the ball instead of putting it through the hands. When he could be bothered to pass, Tuilagi looked a constant threat. Farrell also failed to actually complete a tackle, at times he was an effective roadblack, but he never actually downed his man.

As I said I must however be in a minority.

This was spiralling with Johno aswell. He has given him a chance then made the right call to replace him. He may yet return him to the Tigers permanently

He had a tough 6N last year and his form wasn't great. The injury prior to the RWC which he played through has only made things worse. He really needs some time off so I'm hoping that England don't select him for the summer tour. A return to Tigers isn't likely to be stress free as young tyro Sam Harrison is in very good form and once over his minor injury will be making Youngs work hard for the 9 shirt.

Comfort, I was about to leap to Hartley's defence (I've never rated Webber), but then I had a look on the Telegraph stats comparitor and he's bottom of the list of all 6N's hookers so far in terms of carries and metres carried.

Granted his lineout has been ok, and his tackle count is actually pretty high compared to other no 2's, but he's carried 7 times in 3 matches for a total of 7 metres: awful stats for a man who is there because his perceived abrasiveness in the loose supposedly puts him above technicians like Mears, and even worse in light of Ross Ford's stats: 38 carries in 3 matches for a total of 68 metres!!

My impression was that he had a solid game against the Welsh: conspicuously physical in defence on a couple of occassions. Scrum was iffy, lineout was pretty good, so set piece balances out.....not a stand-out performance, but ok.

What do others think? Would you give Webber a go? Convince me that Webber's the man....

Comfort, I was about to leap to Hartley's defence (I've never rated Webber), but then I had a look on the Telegraph stats comparitor and he's bottom of the list of all 6N's hookers so far in terms of carries and metres carried.

Granted his lineout has been ok, and his tackle count is actually pretty high compared to other no 2's, but he's carried 7 times in 3 matches for a total of 7 metres: awful stats for a man who is there because his perceived abrasiveness in the loose supposedly puts him above technicians like Mears, and even worse in light of Ross Ford's stats: 38 carries in 3 matches for a total of 68 metres!!

My impression was that he had a solid game against the Welsh: conspicuously physical in defence on a couple of occassions. Scrum was iffy, lineout was pretty good, so set piece balances out.....not a stand-out performance, but ok.

What do others think? Would you give Webber a go? Convince me that Webber's the man....

What do others think? Would you give Webber a go? Convince me that Webber's the man.....

I think Hartley is keeping his place because England are struggling for hookers at the minute. Mears is good ball in hand, ok at the lineout but poor in the scrum as well as lacking the abrasiveness hookers need. Webber is rubbish at the set piece but a unit in the loose, not international quality though. Gray needs to cement his set piece work, Brooker needs to fine tune his set piece and up his work rate (the Quins boys aren't far off), Lindsay is great in the loose but is woeful at the set piece, Tom Youngs is broken, Paice is notoriously average, Buckland is terrible and Jamie George isn't getting enough game time (he could be a great hooker).

Webber wont start the next game.

I just think Hartleys been anonymous. Whats really missing, and again this goes back to the world cup, is his drive and enthusiasm. He used to be and aggressive runner and go looking for the ball.
Hes cut out the petty bully nonsense but with it seems to have become a genral irrelevance.

Set piece wise England have been decent though. He must be a part of that.

If Webber were Schalk Brits Id be crying out for a change, but hes ...Webber. Mears would be a pointless retrograde step. He shot his laod as an interntaional force a couple of years ago and theis is suppossed to be the 0 cap cavalry England.

formerly known as Sam wrote:I think Hartley is keeping his place because England are struggling for hookers at the minute. (he could be a great hooker).

Has schalk Brits not qualified by residency yet?

I think Jaime George and Tom Lindsay are the two to watch! And depending on how his form is when he comes back Tom youngs...though im concerned about his size a little.

Out of curiosity, i noted an interesting comment on a past thread about how Saints use Hartley...very much as a breakdown and tackling machine...rather than an offensive barnstorming runner.

Would it be that maybe we might be using him like that too. Increasing his presence at the breakdowns and tackling etc..and let others like Morgan, Robshaw...even Corbs and Cole appear to be doing more in the loose.

And depending on how his form is when he comes back Tom youngs...though im concerned about his size a little

According to the Tigers website (see below) he's 5 foot 9 and 16 stone. Wiki gives Schalk Brits at 6 foot and 15 stone 10lbs. The likes of Hartley and George might be much bigger but you don't have to be massive to be physical. Particularly in the scrum where I'm led to believe being short is an advantage as it makes it much harder for the opposition to get underneath you and drive you up/back.

http://www.leicestertigers.com/rugby/leicester_tigers_senior_squad.php?player=21383&includeref=dynamic

Actually Sam i didnt realise he was 16 stone....thats a decent weight...only actually giving away a stone or so to the others i listed.

He's not the biggest but 16 stone plus his low centre of gravity mean he is a real handful ball in hand. He was warming up with the players at the weekend before kick off so with a bit of luck he might only be a week or two away from a return. If we could let him loose against Bath in the LV Cup that would be a good time to have him back in the side.

Whats his actual set piece work like...particularly his scrummaging.

I'd say he was a better scrummager than either Chuter or Hawkins. He's certainly more impressive in the loose due to his former life as a bruising inside centre. His lineout work was coming along nicely, better than Hawkins but not quite at Chuter's level before his injury. If he'd been injured I think he'd have taken the 2 shirt by now. Chuter gave a couple of interviews earlier in the season where he stated that Youngs will be his successor and that he was impressed but intended to teach Youngs a few things first. If he can make a good impression on his return he might be worth a Saxons place for any summer friendlies.