Wales won by the way

On train back to Wales, reading Sunday papers...

You'd sware England won and farrell is the next Carter! SJ in the times has marked warburton lower than robshaw? SM was man of the match for goodness sake!

Luckily the pages have the score in the corner othwise I would have thought yesterday was all a dream...

Biased BBC and commentary before, during and after the game. They need to take the specs off and check the scoreboard and IRB world rankings because England are on the bottom of Wales' boot.

Yes Wales won. At the end of teh day that is all that matters.
Stephen Jones is a prat - but do not blame us for that, he is one of yours after all.
Yes the BBc commentary was biased - Eddie Butler was a one-eyed discrace.

It was the same after the Scotland game, even though both England and Scotland lost to us everyone is praising the performance of the loosing side without giving any real credit to Wales. I thought that Warburton was awesome yesterday as were our front three who totally out scrummaged England, and all England did yesterday was slow the game down to take any momentum out of the Welsh play. I swear England would still be behind their ruck in their own 22 now if the ref had let them.

to be fair Butlers not that one eyed, If you had said jiffy I would agree with you but the prof is normally one of our harsher critics, I actually enjoy him and BM as commentators both very knowledgable, both intellegent speakers and both happy to banter a bit.

I didn't think the commentating was all that bad and the studio team of Jiffy, Jerry and Dallagio was brilliant and very entertaining.

Butler can be a bit eccentric but he is fair when he talks, Moore is one eyed and gobby but he too can be fun on occasion. Though I prefer the Scottish guy and Jiffy as a team.

Anyone reading the expert opinions in a paper of Stephen Jones wants hanging, he's an idiot that knows little about rugby and has made a career of being controversial to get attention.
I don't read his articles, it's not worth wasting my life over.

Oh, did Wales win? I didn't notice.

Reflective of the moral victory the game was for England, surely?

miteyironpaw wrote:Reflective of the moral victory the game was for England, surely?

Nothing to say then Mitey just grudging Wales a win.

Yes Wales won yesterday and i dont know any one who is saying that Wales did not win fair and square.

I am a little angry at the Moment, because for the first time in 3 years, i just might lose my bet, that Wales this year will finish higher than England.

But apart from that well done Wales.

AlynDavies wrote:I didn't think the commentating was all that bad and the studio team of Jiffy, Jerry and Dallagio was brilliant and very entertaining.

Butler can be a bit eccentric but he is fair when he talks, Moore is one eyed and gobby but he too can be fun on occasion. Though I prefer the Scottish guy and Jiffy as a team.

Anyone reading the expert opinions in a paper of Stephen Jones wants hanging, he's an idiot that knows little about rugby and has made a career of being controversial to get attention.
I don't read his articles, it's not worth wasting my life over.

It wasn't my paper - I borrowed it, I had to stop reading it, it was making me ill.

This thread isn't about BBC as I haven't seen it on telly yet.

Wasn't the plan they would smash & humiliate England ? Disappointing for both lots of fans.

gregortree wrote:Wasn't the plan they would smash & humiliate England ? Disappointing for both lots of fans.

Where did this come from, I've heard it a few times but not from any Welshmen. I'm Welsh and nobody I know was predicting a smash or a humiliation.

irfon17 wrote:

gregortree wrote:Wasn't the plan they would smash & humiliate England ? Disappointing for both lots of fans.

Where did this come from, I've heard it a few times but not from any Welshmen. I'm Welsh and nobody I know was predicting a smash or a humiliation.

JD1 said it after the Italy game I think.

slartibartfast wrote:

irfon17 wrote:

gregortree wrote:Wasn't the plan they would smash & humiliate England ? Disappointing for both lots of fans.

Where did this come from, I've heard it a few times but not from any Welshmen. I'm Welsh and nobody I know was predicting a smash or a humiliation.

JD1 said it after the Italy game I think.

I think that people should be clever enough to realise that JD1 doesn't speak for the Wales team or management (or even the majority of the fans for that matter).

Wales won. Deserved the win. England improved. Deserved to get close. Think Wales for the slam.

Wasnt it Warburton who said Wales played badly? Blame him for the lack of credit Wales got. And the paper has always been England biased with the majority of its coverage about the English game, so it was always going to be English centric.

irfon17 wrote:

slartibartfast wrote:

irfon17 wrote:

gregortree wrote:Wasn't the plan they would smash & humiliate England ? Disappointing for both lots of fans.

Where did this come from, I've heard it a few times but not from any Welshmen. I'm Welsh and nobody I know was predicting a smash or a humiliation.

JD1 said it after the Italy game I think.

I think that people should be clever enough to realise that JD1 doesn't speak for the Wales team or management (or even the majority of the fans for that matter).

JD1 said that "we could go to Twickernam and smash England physically" - Which in a way we did, at the breakdown at least just not through the backs as much as we would have liked.


Talk about taking a statement completely out of context and meaning.

wales606 wrote:

irfon17 wrote:

slartibartfast wrote:

irfon17 wrote:

gregortree wrote:Wasn't the plan they would smash & humiliate England ? Disappointing for both lots of fans.

Where did this come from, I've heard it a few times but not from any Welshmen. I'm Welsh and nobody I know was predicting a smash or a humiliation.

JD1 said it after the Italy game I think.

I think that people should be clever enough to realise that JD1 doesn't speak for the Wales team or management (or even the majority of the fans for that matter).

JD1 said that "we could go to Twickernam and smash England physically" - Which in a way we did, at the breakdown at least just not through the backs as much as we would have liked.




Talk about taking a statement completely out of context and meaning.

Wales really didnt smash England at the break down the amount of turnovers for both teams were equal.

well done again Wales!..from this englishman..i think people should be clever enough to realize any jounalist/editor does not speak for all the english fans...if you have an issue with any publication dont buy it / read it... or complain to them...not really sure what you expect anyone on this forum to do??

Manu's Boxing Coach wrote:

Wales really didnt smash England at the break down the amount of turnovers for both teams were equal.

Because you were holding on, on many occassions. Not sure what Robshaws contribution was either. Scrums were dominant in our favour aswell. Just saying like.

Morgannwg wrote:

Manu's Boxing Coach wrote:

Wales really didnt smash England at the break down the amount of turnovers for both teams were equal.

Because you were holding on, on many occassions. Not sure what Robshaws contribution was either. Scrums were dominant in our favour aswell. Just saying like.

Have to say I didnt notice us holding onto the ball but I havent re-watched the game and when I do I will look out for it, but even so it isnt cheating unless you get caught which is much the same with Jones monstering Corbs by binding on the arm. However at no point in the game were England were physically "smashed" they stood toe to toe with Wales and were very close to coming out on top.

First 20 Wales dd smash the English scrum

Biggest mistake of the day was kicking for goal when they won the penalty 5 yards out - could have been a penalty try.

Just watching again - 37 mins, how on earth is that a penalty

Well done Wales. It was a tough test match and the better team on the day won the match. There was not much in it. We'll get you next time!

slartibartfast wrote:On train back to Wales, reading Sunday papers...

You'd sware England won and farrell is the next Carter! SJ in the times has marked warburton lower than robshaw? SM was man of the match for goodness sake!

Luckily the pages have the score in the corner othwise I would have thought yesterday was all a dream...

Was it an English edition of the sunday paper?

Any sausage rolls left Hershy?

Tell you what that hamper was top notch as was the cheese and port

You mean Stilton and Port Hersh - Hot dogs for tea mate? - Were the grapes ok afterwards I heard they were a little sour

Triangulation wrote:Well done Wales. It was a tough test match and the better team on the day won the match. There was not much in it. We'll get you next time!

And the scrum Tri? what was it you said? my opinion that Wales would have the edge was "complete rubbish" well think I was proven correct on that wasnt I?

RubyGuby wrote:You mean Stilton and Port Hersh - Hot dogs for tea mate? - Were the grapes ok afterwards I heard they were a little sour

Not a fan of stilton or grapes!

Oh and a big thank you goes out to the Muppet who scratched the Range.

my opinion that Wales would have the edge was "complete rubbish" well think I was proven correct on that wasnt I?

Well, I'm impressed! You could foresee the linesman wasn't going to call Jonesy binding on Cole's arm all game? Wow!

but even so it isnt cheating unless you get caught which is much the same with Jones monstering Corbs by binding on the arm.

The main problem I could see was that Hartley kept standing up. Cole had his side wrapped up nicely and Corbs was struggling but holding on against Jones (let's face it Jones is the 2nd best TH in the world and Corbs is learning his trade) but it may have been okay had Hartley been able to actually scrummage.

Good game with the England midfield doing well to dismantle the Welsh one (wish we had the Welsh wingers though) but Wales did the business at the breakdown and won through a great piece of individual skill. Good rip, nice chip and good chase.

I think the Welsh can understand the English annoyance though, Walshe was woeful in the last 10 mins missing Halfpenny's knock on, North's deliberate knocking the ball into touch and then refusing to go back to the penalty advantage after the try wasn't given. If it had been the other way round then I'm pretty sure the Welsh fans would have been angry too.

Well, I'm impressed! You could foresee the linesman wasn't going to call Jonesy binding on Cole's arm all game? Wow

Wow that would have been very odd with the tightheads bind on each others arms?!? It was Jones vs Corbisiero.

The confidence winning some silverwear will bring to these Welsh youngsters will make they play some frightening rugby now.

They bought into the system and the fitness regime and it paid off remarkably quick.

Gethin had cole wrapped up niceley. Look at the scrum driving through the English front row and you see Gething still low and driving whilst cole has popped up that happened twice. Corbisero was the main problem but Cole was not anchoring the English scrum and Geth dealt with him.

With the popping up near the English line it's Hartley that comes up first bringing the other two with him, Cole never fully comes up and tries to stay in. Can't remember the other time. Hartley was pretty poor through out.

exactly what i expected from that game, my heart was in my mouth the whole thing.

I havent posted about the game yet, so my thoughts:

1. Welsh gameplan wrong, they didnt do the work around the fringes or through the forwards that they have been doing. They believed the hype a little and tried to get the ball wide too early.

2. English defence, the first up tackling was excellant, they meant every one of those hits. The defensive system has been very good, definitely improving each game.

3. Scrum dominance, legal or not (what dominance here is ever fully above board?) Wales should have taken scrums, they had the upper hand and I would have liked to see Faletau peeling off the back of a scrum going forward.

4. Breakdown/tackle area, Wales were very good at the breakdown again, 3rd week in a row they won this area when it mattered. England played a very physical game and tried to slow the ball down, they did this well but got a bit worked out by the second half.

5. Midfield battle - Tuilagi was a beast, that English backline really can not function to that level without him, hes going to be the English BOD over the next 5 - 10 years if he can reach his potential (big praise indeed). Roberts was ineffective, Scott Williams was better, and scored the winning try. Barritt tackled himself into the ground, but didnt show much goign forward.

6. Englands charge down game got going, but Botha's no Charlie

7. Decisions, decisions, decision. I'll be honest, I thought the referee had a relatively alright game, a few wobbly calls for both sides. I didn't think Strettle had grounded the ball, but I did wonder why he didnt bring play back for a penalty advantage. Still, the best England were playing for was a draw, and we wont know what would have happened. Bit of luck for Wales when North slapped the ball back and out, but those decisions go for you and against you, luck of the draw and i cant recall how many times ive seen these little bits go against wales (as im sure English fans can do the same for England, Irish fans for Ireland and so on etc).

It was a very close intense game, I predicted Wales by a score, so ill take that result with a big smile. Wales learning to win close games, they didnt play their best yesterday (shades of not 'earning the right to go wide' a la pre-world cup) but found a way to win, and are finally starting to develop some test-level depth all over the field. A good step forward for this welsh team taken this weekend.

England will take very positive lessons from this game. The defence was very good, especially from the back 5 and midfield. Attack looked unrecognisable with Tuilagi back. Set-piece not the destructive force some were looking for, but this is a young team, and they have a very good core of players. Parling was excellant, Morgan was bullocking and Farrell's play was measured and he'll take a lot from that game.

The futures bright for both of these teams, that was a great game of rugby and to me, Wales showed they have the mettle to win the championship, now they have to back up that mettle with performances.

The only 'smashing' I can remember was most of the welsh backs getting sat down by Barritt and Manu. By the end of the game England were the stronger side by far and Strettles no-try proves it.

The welsh scrum did go better than England but that's about it. A very unusual lucky try by Wales. It was not a created try but a mistake by an England forward. Wales should think themselves lucky.

England did very well and will take a huge amount of positives from that game.

formerly known as Sam wrote:With the popping up near the English line it's Hartley that comes up first bringing the other two with him, Cole never fully comes up and tries to stay in. Can't remember the other time. Hartley was pretty poor through out.

Why did Walsh blow his whistle and give us a penalty when we were driving England towards their line - another 20-30 secs and we would have gone over - He blew almost stright away when we had a great drive on

You know what, it's odd, both sets of fans are finding it hard to swallow. I thought Wales played no where near their potential but most of that has to be from England winning the breakdown battle, and being tactically astute especially through Farrell's boot and the midfeild.

From a Welsh perspective a win at Twickers is NEVER something to play down, if England were inexperienced and in transition (which we can all agree they are) they showed a real passion against a much more settled confident Wales team. In Lancaster they have a tactically astute, real no nonsence top notch coach, he is everything England need at the moment, he may not be awe inspiring and come up with what is needed to win the next world cup, but he will show the younger players with a lot of potential the way to go, and set a platform for te next guy in, which in my eyes is more important than leading them at the WC, similar to what Graham Henry did with Wales before the 2005 GS.

Wales won, but in reality it was a 1 point ball game, couldve gone either way, both sets of players put everything on the line and the bounce of the ball went Wales way, especially in the last decision, for me, the ball was in Strettles hand and grounded, his hand may have been on the bottom side of the ball, but he was in control, there was downward pressure, within the ingoal area, try.

Although both sets of fans are a little dissapointed both sets of players will be very happy, Wales got the win they wanted, and the English performed not just spirited but more than competitive, and actually were the better team in certain areas.

What England won't be happy with is Corbs getting a bit of a schooling in the scrum a few times, allbeit a cheeky bind, Corbs will have to be more streetwise when he faces a more brutal scrum.

Then theres the lack of any attacking threat from Ashton, at all in the slightest. They built him up and he is proving he had a good game V Italy once upon a time, for me Strettle is doing a much better job!

Youngs looked like a child, Dickson did a good job and England lost a yard when he went off. The molesting of Falatau at the one scrum was just clueless!

Finally for the third game in a row they have failed to score a try made by themself, The 2 Hodgson charge downs are all they have to show from the first 3 games and with a backline that involves Foden, Tuilagi, and Ashton is that good enough? The worst factor in all that is that Dickson is going really well IMO and getting decent quick ball, The pack is gaining parity and they are getting the odd 3 pointer to show for it. Infact I'd go as far to say that the final decision of non try was an absolute butcher, 1/2p goes from behind the ruck at the 15metre line to the opposing touch line in time to make the tackle? That just isn't good enough from Englands point of view, especially when you take into account that none of the English players took the ball forward really, they just shipped it on as quick as they could!

Why did Walsh blow his whistle and give us a penalty when we were driving England towards their line - another 20-30 secs and we would have gone over - He blew almost stright away when we had a great drive on

Both front rows were standing up, that is no longer a scrum. The front rows have to remain in and bound in order for the scrum to continue. Wales got the penalty because Hartley popped up under the pressure.

with a backline that involves Foden, Tuilagi, and Ashton is that good enough?

Considering the form Foden and Ashton have shown it is understandable. It's time for the pair of them to be dropped and Manu was the best player on the pitch it's just a shame England have had to wait until the third game to be able to use his talents.

1/2p goes from behind the ruck at the 15metre line to the opposing touch line in time to make the tackle?

Flood had to angle the pass around the offside Welsh player that charged out of the line. It slowed the move down.

Tuilagi the best player on the pitch - your having a laugh right - He's a 17 stone centre with a walk in from 5 metres and was scythed down - He huffed and puffed in his usual predictable way and was about as effective as Jamie Roberts

Have to agree with RubyGuby slightly, Manu was a tipical south sea islander (no offence) He popped up, threw his weight around, sat a 10 down once but in reality fell a yard over the gain line time and time again ( I know I saw enough replays of it) failed to utilise anyone outside him and generally ended the England attack, I think he made 1 line break ish. Infact if you compared stats between him and Scott Williams, Manu carried what 9/10 times and possibly made 20 metres, Williams carried 3/4 and made 30+ because he has the foresight to attack someones (Tuilagi's) outside shoulder, hit a gap instead of a defender, and put boot to ball if all else fails.

I like Tuilagi, he will score plenty of tries against weaker defences through his physicality alone, but at this level he falls short, as do all the islanders who don't develop a nous for the game.

Fodens not playing poorly, and for me neither is Ashton, he's just not getting put in from 10 metres with nooone in front of him this year.

Offside player or not, I don't remember who plays the last pass to Strettle, but it isn't good enough at this level, allowing 1/2p to drift past without him even considering a tackle in that area is poor play, it's very panicy and Scotland esque

Have to agree with RubyGuby slightly, Manu was a tipical south sea
islander (no offence) He popped up, threw his weight around, sat a 10
down once but in reality fell a yard over the gain line time and time
again ( I know I saw enough replays of it) failed to utilise anyone
outside him and generally ended the England attack, I think he made 1
line break ish. Infact if you compared stats between him and Scott
Williams, Manu carried what 9/10 times and possibly made 20 metres,
Williams carried 3/4 and made 30+ because he has the foresight to attack
someones (Tuilagi's) outside shoulder, hit a gap instead of a defender,
and put boot to ball if all else fails.

I think Tuilagi's played two games against Wales and scored one try, which didn't involve smashing through the defence, but instead came from a good running line. Not a bad return so far.

It's a lazy misconception that he always smashes into people because he's a pacific islander – he actually has a decent outside break and prefers running round people to over them, unlike, say, Jamie Roberts. His strength is only one of his attributes. He was easily the best centre on Saturday.

ETA: here's that try

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oaUGJfUepY

We (Wales) seem to be getting more than our fair share of luck this year! I thought England were very good, and got it right tactically, which we didn't. Priestland had a very poor game, unfortunately.

I wouldn't worry that there's a whole lot more to come from this England team, as some seem to suggest, but if you look at the way their U20s are carrying all before them, there's obviously some serious talent on the way. It'll be interesting to see what shape both teams are in come the nextWorld Cup.

Tuilagi was good in the first half, not that effective in the second. The best centre on the pitch was JD2, for me.

Brown made the pass should have stepped inside himself and wrong footed the defence, he would have done it for his club. As a replacement its understandable he chose to pass

Eustace

Is that the Try V Wales (sorry can't watch)

If so are you talking about the rugby nous and Guile that is a crash ball inside a sideways runner??? Are you kidding me? That is not intelligent rugby, it's running a good line hard and fast but it's hardly beating one and offloading for a winner, it's not stealing ball looking up, playing it through off the boot regathering to score, it's not taking a pass early or late to beat a man, it's a strong hard running line, very very Islander esque!

I'd go as far to say that defensively he is a liability too, see Williams take 1 step left off a late ball and Tuilagi finding himself in no mans land and unable to scramble back, infact watch the Leicester Sarries game last week, he was poor then too! Plus he is put in space 5 metres out, and doesn't have the foresight to either push wider of Warburton or give the ball to the guy outside him for a trot in. Come on just see the facts...

As I said I like the guy, but if he doesn't start using the ball better, keep himself better organised, or if England develop any centre with a bit of Guile he's going to be a bit part player at best.

The only 'smashing' I can remember was most of the welsh backs getting sat down by Barritt and Manu. By the end of the game England were the stronger side by far and Strettles no-try proves it.

Manu yes - Barritt no. But the smashing didn't do much in the end did it.

The welsh scrum did go better than England but that's about it. A very unusual lucky try by Wales. It was not a created try but a mistake by an England forward. Wales should think themselves lucky.

Yes we were VERY lucky not like a charge down eh?

Manu yes - Barritt no. But the smashing didn't do much in the end did it.

Barritt was the better in defence and was chopping down Welsh runners all game. It gave England a good platform they didn't take advantage of.

Tuilagi the best player on the pitch - your having a laugh right - He's a 17 stone centre with a walk in from 5 metres and was scythed down - He huffed and puffed in his usual predictable way and was about as effective as Jamie Roberts .

No he actually made some yards. He used his wingers occasionally but he got over the gainline and got England going. Warburton makes a good tackle low and hard but in truth he was always going to get there because Farrell gives the pass to early and never fixes Warburton.

Eustace

Is that the Try V Wales (sorry can't watch)

If so
are you talking about the rugby nous and Guile that is a crash ball
inside a sideways runner??? Are you kidding me? That is not intelligent
rugby, it's running a good line hard and fast but it's hardly beating
one and offloading for a winner, it's not stealing ball looking up,
playing it through off the boot regathering to score, it's not taking a
pass early or late to beat a man, it's a strong hard running line, very
very Islander esque!

Yes it is the try against Wales. And I was talking about that – a good running line. He's not just a bulldozer.