The Klitschko Effect

I must say that I have long found the Klitschkos approach to boxing to be repugnant. They have set themselves up as a double headed monster, take credit for each others wins and operate as a combined force.

Whilst I have a great deal of sympathy with their decision not to fight each other, I believe its completely inappropriate the way they negotiate as a dual entity, force fighters to agree to fight both of them and consider it fair to create contracts where they can substitute each other wherever they want. This should be clearly breaching the rules of the sport. They may not fight each other, but why should they be allowed to operate as a unit?

Consider this. What happens if other boxers decide to team up like this? They need not be brothers but may simply decide that given how much power the Klitschkos weild that they could adopt a similar approach. If the Klitschkos are allowed to stipulate that if one loses then the other must be fought after, then why cant, for arguments sake Khan say that if he loses his title the winner must face Pacquiao next?

Worse still, I cant help but wonder if other promoters have taken note of this opportunity for collective power. Imagine say Arum for example (already known for his in housing) began to demand that in order to get a title shot at one of his fighters the opponent must sign up to face another of his fighters after? For instance if Mayorga beat Cotto then he had to defend against Margarito afterwards. Titles could be kept completely in house in ridiculous circumstances.

The Klitschkos have pushed the boundries of what constitutes reasonable contracts too far and whilst theirs may be something of a natural alliance, it could potentially open the door for some not so natural alliances between fighters looking to consolidate control.

I can kind of see where you are going with this but I think you are missing a few crucial points.

The Klitschkos are not where they are through their alliance, they are there because they have been comfortably the best heavyweights in the last decade. They are there on merit. If there were fighters capable of displacing them out there then it wouldnt matter how much they teamed up - they would be toppled.

Also, as you say, the alliance is a natural one. They are brothers. Its much harder to imagine two boxers with no fmilial ties adopting that kind of approach. How would they split money and so forth?

As for promoters? Well thats essentially what the Klitschkos are. Promoters have long held all the power before the Klitschkos came along. Arum already employs such tactics where he can.

The Klitschko situation is unique because you have two brothers, in the same division, existing in the same era that are head and shoulders etter than the competion. Its unlikely to happen very often.

Arum makes people sign for Top Rank to fight his fighters.

The one recent fighter who wouldnt sign was Floyd and they ducked out of the fight.

Not much different to things that have happened in the past or still happening now with promoters/managers etc exercising control IMO. We know cases of guys fixing fights to set up shots, surely worse than having a forced next fight? Or only getting a title shot if you sign with a particular promoter/mob guy? No doubt other guys are set up in a similar way be it through the mandatories they are given or other behind the scenes deals we don't know about. This is just more visible. HBO set up Martinez by forcing him to fight Dzinziruk instead of his mandatory and he gets stripped of his belt. Arum already has the opponents for most of his boxers decided before their current fight is over.

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Arum makes people sign for Top Rank to fight his fighters.

The one recent fighter who wouldnt sign was Floyd and they ducked out of the fight.

I'm watching this thread!

azania wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Arum makes people sign for Top Rank to fight his fighters.

The one recent fighter who wouldnt sign was Floyd and they ducked out of the fight.

I'm watching this thread!

What have I said that is untrue?

Floyd was not Top Rank and all of a sudden Manny is scared of blood, needles, nurses and hospitals. Funny that, given he gave blood within 14 days of the Hatton fight.

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

azania wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Arum makes people sign for Top Rank to fight his fighters.

The one recent fighter who wouldnt sign was Floyd and they ducked out of the fight.

I'm watching this thread!

What have I said that is untrue?

Floyd was not Top Rank and all of a sudden Manny is scared of blood, needles, nurses and hospitals. Funny that, given he gave blood within 14 days of the Hatton fight.

The mere mention of Floyd/Pac/ducking/Arum/ means it will soon be ripe for merging.

azania wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

azania wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Arum makes people sign for Top Rank to fight his fighters.

The one recent fighter who wouldnt sign was Floyd and they ducked out of the fight.

I'm watching this thread!

What have I said that is untrue?

Floyd was not Top Rank and all of a sudden Manny is scared of blood, needles, nurses and hospitals. Funny that, given he gave blood within 14 days of the Hatton fight.

The mere mention of Floyd/Pac/ducking/Arum/ means it will soon be ripe for merging.

Or certain posts will be moved to a more appropriate article, thus leaving this article to discuss The Klitschko Effect.

Y I Man wrote:

azania wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

azania wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Arum makes people sign for Top Rank to fight his fighters.

The one recent fighter who wouldnt sign was Floyd and they ducked out of the fight.

I'm watching this thread!

What have I said that is untrue?

Floyd was not Top Rank and all of a sudden Manny is scared of blood, needles, nurses and hospitals. Funny that, given he gave blood within 14 days of the Hatton fight.

The mere mention of Floyd/Pac/ducking/Arum/ means it will soon be ripe for merging.

Or certain posts will be moved to a more appropriate article, thus leaving this article to discuss The Klitschko Effect.

Yep.

I do think they use the dual contract situation to their advantage. Their doing it to Haye right now. He's not 100% sure who he will be facing and he will always have the thought in the back of his mind that if Wlad gets the OK from the doc's to fight he might still pull out at short notice and lump him with Vit. You need a different game plan for each brother which may put him off. I'm not sure this sits right with me but their not breaking any rules. I suppose any advantage is a good one.

prettyboy1304 wrote:I do think they use the dual contract situation to their advantage. Their doing it to Haye right now. He's not 100% sure who he will be facing and he will always have the thought in the back of his mind that if Wlad gets the OK from the doc's to fight he might still pull out at short notice and lump him with Vit. You need a different game plan for each brother which may put him off. I'm not sure this sits right with me but their not breaking any rules. I suppose any advantage is a good one.

I can imagine both brothers training for Haye. But training for Wlad means you also train for Vit. But not the other way around. Wlad is a better version of Vit.

azania wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:I do think they use the dual contract situation to their advantage. Their doing it to Haye right now. He's not 100% sure who he will be facing and he will always have the thought in the back of his mind that if Wlad gets the OK from the doc's to fight he might still pull out at short notice and lump him with Vit. You need a different game plan for each brother which may put him off. I'm not sure this sits right with me but their not breaking any rules. I suppose any advantage is a good one.

I can imagine both brothers training for Haye. But training for Wlad means you also train for Vit. But not the other way around. Wlad is a better version of Vit.

I always preferred Vit better chin and a bit more disciplined in the ring. Wlad can be guilty of getting caught with silly shots.

Think training with the fought of 2 different fighters in your mind never being 100% sure who you're facing may be a bit off putting. Hope Haye is mentally strong because the fight has already started for the Klitchkos.

azania wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:I do think they use the dual contract situation to their advantage. Their doing it to Haye right now. He's not 100% sure who he will be facing and he will always have the thought in the back of his mind that if Wlad gets the OK from the doc's to fight he might still pull out at short notice and lump him with Vit. You need a different game plan for each brother which may put him off. I'm not sure this sits right with me but their not breaking any rules. I suppose any advantage is a good one.

I can imagine both brothers training for Haye. But training for Wlad means you also train for Vit. But not the other way around. Wlad is a better version of Vit.

Cant really agree with that. The two fighters are different and not "versions" of each other. They have a different style and different strengths.

Vitali is capable of walking you down, taking punishment and throwns a variety of punches which attack head and body. He can brawl and trade.

Wlad operates behind jab and a slower tempo. Cant fight on the inside either. More one diminsional than Vitali but better fundementals and probably sharper at this stage. Harder to hit aswell.

Neither brother has been tested severelly recently but you always get the impression if the big test comes along then Vitali is better placed to handle it as he has more to his game.

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:I do think they use the dual contract situation to their advantage. Their doing it to Haye right now. He's not 100% sure who he will be facing and he will always have the thought in the back of his mind that if Wlad gets the OK from the doc's to fight he might still pull out at short notice and lump him with Vit. You need a different game plan for each brother which may put him off. I'm not sure this sits right with me but their not breaking any rules. I suppose any advantage is a good one.

I can imagine both brothers training for Haye. But training for Wlad means you also train for Vit. But not the other way around. Wlad is a better version of Vit.

Cant really agree with that. The two fighters are different and not "versions" of each other. They have a different style and different strengths.

Vitali is capable of walking you down, taking punishment and throwns a variety of punches which attack head and body. He can brawl and trade.

Wlad operates behind jab and a slower tempo. Cant fight on the inside either. More one diminsional than Vitali but better fundementals and probably sharper at this stage. Harder to hit aswell.

Neither brother has been tested severelly recently but you always get the impression if the big test comes along then Vitali is better placed to handle it as he has more to his game.

Outside of the lewis fight, I haven't seen Vit brawl with anyone. Wlad lost to Saunders when Corrie took the fight to him. Thats what Haye should do.

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:I do think they use the dual contract situation to their advantage. Their doing it to Haye right now. He's not 100% sure who he will be facing and he will always have the thought in the back of his mind that if Wlad gets the OK from the doc's to fight he might still pull out at short notice and lump him with Vit. You need a different game plan for each brother which may put him off. I'm not sure this sits right with me but their not breaking any rules. I suppose any advantage is a good one.

I can imagine both brothers training for Haye. But training for Wlad means you also train for Vit. But not the other way around. Wlad is a better version of Vit.

Cant really agree with that. The two fighters are different and not "versions" of each other. They have a different style and different strengths.

Vitali is capable of walking you down, taking punishment and throwns a variety of punches which attack head and body. He can brawl and trade.

Wlad operates behind jab and a slower tempo. Cant fight on the inside either. More one diminsional than Vitali but better fundementals and probably sharper at this stage. Harder to hit aswell.

Neither brother has been tested severelly recently but you always get the impression if the big test comes along then Vitali is better placed to handle it as he has more to his game.

Outside of the lewis fight, I haven't seen Vit brawl with anyone. Wlad lost to Sanders when Corrie took the fight to him. Thats what Haye should do.

Watch the Sanders fight with both brothers back to back and it will give a fairly good idea of how they differ. Vitali is well capable of trading shots and getting up close and personal. Wlad is not.

I dont see why Haye would try and pressure Wlad as he isnt a pressure fighter and cant take a dig aswell as Sanders. In all Hayes heavyweight fights he has been most comfortable getting his opponent to come to him. When he is giving away virtually ever physical advantage to a fighter who has a proven quality jab and good power then trying to pressure his is going to be a tall order. Wlad is formulaic and ultra consistent in his approach which means Haye can study him. Most of Wlads damage is inflicted with the jab so I think Hye will want to stay well clear of it on the outside and look for opportunities to use his speed to counter an opening.

With Hayes low defence, smallish stature and questionable chin I think trying to adopt a Tyson-esque approach would be unwise.

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:I do think they use the dual contract situation to their advantage. Their doing it to Haye right now. He's not 100% sure who he will be facing and he will always have the thought in the back of his mind that if Wlad gets the OK from the doc's to fight he might still pull out at short notice and lump him with Vit. You need a different game plan for each brother which may put him off. I'm not sure this sits right with me but their not breaking any rules. I suppose any advantage is a good one.

I can imagine both brothers training for Haye. But training for Wlad means you also train for Vit. But not the other way around. Wlad is a better version of Vit.

Cant really agree with that. The two fighters are different and not "versions" of each other. They have a different style and different strengths.

Vitali is capable of walking you down, taking punishment and throwns a variety of punches which attack head and body. He can brawl and trade.

Wlad operates behind jab and a slower tempo. Cant fight on the inside either. More one diminsional than Vitali but better fundementals and probably sharper at this stage. Harder to hit aswell.

Neither brother has been tested severelly recently but you always get the impression if the big test comes along then Vitali is better placed to handle it as he has more to his game.

Outside of the lewis fight, I haven't seen Vit brawl with anyone. Wlad lost to Sanders when Corrie took the fight to him. Thats what Haye should do.

Watch the Sanders fight with both brothers back to back and it will give a fairly good idea of how they differ. Vitali is well capable of trading shots and getting up close and personal. Wlad is not.

I dont see why Haye would try and pressure Wlad as he isnt a pressure fighter and cant take a dig aswell as Sanders. In all Hayes heavyweight fights he has been most comfortable getting his opponent to come to him. When he is giving away virtually ever physical advantage to a fighter who has a proven quality jab and good power then trying to pressure his is going to be a tall order. Wlad is formulaic and ultra consistent in his approach which means Haye can study him. Most of Wlads damage is inflicted with the jab so I think Hye will want to stay well clear of it on the outside and look for opportunities to use his speed to counter an opening.

With Hayes low defence, smallish stature and questionable chin I think trying to adopt a Tyson-esque approach would be unwise.

If Haye stands off and adopts a style he used against Valuev, then it will be a painful night for him. He will eat jab after jab. Wlad will not take risks. He has his style in which Haye is tailor make for him. When he gets close to land his shots, he will be in punching range of wlads huge punches. Its a who lands first fight and I believe Wlad will land first.

He can adopt a Valuev style against Vit as Vit is marginally faster than Val (with more skill obviously). Vit is finished imo. People place too much enphasis on his first reign. Who has he fought since then that has been any good? Peters?

He's arguably fought better recent opposition than Wlad has and to my reckoning hasn't lost a single round in 7 fights, his first reign consisted of Sanders and Williams hardly groundbreaking stuff.

imperialghosty wrote:He's arguably fought better recent opposition than Wlad has and to my reckoning hasn't lost a single round in 7 fights, his first reign consisted of Sanders and Williams hardly groundbreaking stuff.

And they have both fought at a consistently higher level that Haye. Vit is much slower than Wlad who is slower than Haye. In this instance against Vit, speed kills. Vit has inferior skills to both Haye and Wlad. This isn't the old time where brute strength wins over skill on many occassions (sorry).

Your selling Vitali far too short here, whether it was 10 years ago or not you don't outbox Lewis without having a fair bit of skill. He's got a far more varied punching ability than Wlad and can also take a punch, brute strength has never got any boxer anywhere really, so it's a good job that Vitali has more to him than that.

Offtopic
(Az, did you miss Jim Watt and Matthew Macklin on Ringside today?

Paraphrasing:

Watt: "I'm a dinosaur, I don't place much emphasis on conditioners. Roadwork, groundwork (core) and sparring is all you need".
Macklin: "Yeah, I've done all that but it's not gonna win you fights. Roadwork and sparring give you enough conditioning, your skills are what will win fights.")

Scottrf wrote:Offtopic
(Az, did you miss Jim Watt and Matthew Macklin on Ringside today?

Paraphrasing:

Watt: "I'm a dinosaur, I don't place much emphasis on conditioners. Roadwork, groundwork (core) and sparring is all you need".
Macklin: "Yeah, I've done all that but it's not gonna win you fights. Roadwork and sparring give you enough conditioning, your skills are what will win fights.")

Missed it. Watt was probably the worst World Champ in WBC history. Deliberately nutted O'Grady and got beaten by Arguello (no shame there). Who is Macklin again?

azania wrote:Watt was probably the worst World Champ in WBC history.

Scottrf wrote:

azania wrote:Watt was probably the worst World Champ in WBC history.

Didn't Watt also claim Solis was badly hurt by the punch from Vit? The man is a waste.

He wasn't brilliant but still a worthy world champion none the less

Azania you seem to be basing Wlad being alot better than Vitali on him being basically a younger and quicker clone.

Their styles arent the same. Vitali is easier to hit because he can afford to be. This has always been so. Im not sure what fights you are basing Vitali being finished on. Has he lost a round since his comeback? Certainly only handful if so. He beat Peter more convincingly then Wlad did and hammered Arreola who only lost a SD to Adamek. Im not dispting he might have lost some speed and has declined but he is still easily in the top 2/3 heavies and I still edge him the number 1 spot over Wlad.

I also think you have to give some thought to Haye himself who clearly sees Wlad as more beatable and who probably has as good an idea himself as anyone.

Wlad is a straightforward formula but very hard to break. However if you do, and you can get to him and figure him out then hes finished. In this sense hes limited. Vitali is not like that at all. You have to focus on more threats. There is no way Haye would beat Vitali if he were to put in the performance he did against Valuev. Vitali is far better.

I also query your opinion that if Haye adopts Valuev tactics then he will be in for a painful night against Wlad. Wlads jab is good yes, but hes used to guys that are relatively static and come forward. When is the last time hes had to really go looking for someone with the speed and movement of Haye? I expect Haye will make him miss more than he ever has previously, and while this may not be enough to win rounds, I think he can avoid shipping too much punishment.

I actually thinks Hayes tactics on the outside would be harder to pull off against Vitali because instead of cautiously operating behind a jab, Vitali is capable of just wading in and applying real pressure. Wlad on the other hand is happy to hang back and try and jab away.

I suspect Haye would/will lose to both guys but both brothers offer different approaches. If Wlads jab fails to do the business, or if Haye can get through to him then Wlad is in trouble.

But if Vitalis jab fails or you are able to land on him, well its by no means over. He can fight you several different ways and absorb far more punishment.

the k bros have earned that rite as they are both world champions- having a clause in the contract to fight both brothers should be every heavyweight boxers dream- a chance to fight for 3 world titles in 2 fights- haye shud jump at the chance and it shud be him pressing for both brothers to sign, after all haye says he wants to unify the division and there is no other way to do that

The primary advantage which the Klitschko brothers hold over their competitors is that they do not need to face their perceived most dangerous opponent - each other.

That should be concession enough to their whims, and it should be seen as their moral duty to make it possible for all others to challenge for the title with no strings attached. Boxing was doing nicely enough before they came along and will do nicely enough after they are gone. The heavyweight title should not be a private family affair, and they might do well to remember that in the days of one champion per division one of them would have been required to get off the pot.

I absolutely agree with Colonial Lion's points, and while I have nothing against either brother, per se, I can't wait for the day that one of them is dethroned.

manos de piedra wrote:Azania you seem to be basing Wlad being alot better than Vitali on him being basically a younger and quicker clone.

Their styles arent the same. Vitali is easier to hit because he can afford to be. This has always been so. Im not sure what fights you are basing Vitali being finished on. Has he lost a round since his comeback? Certainly only handful if so. He beat Peter more convincingly then Wlad did and hammered Arreola who only lost a SD to Adamek. Im not dispting he might have lost some speed and has declined but he is still easily in the top 2/3 heavies and I still edge him the number 1 spot over Wlad.

I also think you have to give some thought to Haye himself who clearly sees Wlad as more beatable and who probably has as good an idea himself as anyone.

Wlad is a straightforward formula but very hard to break. However if you do, and you can get to him and figure him out then hes finished. In this sense hes limited. Vitali is not like that at all. You have to focus on more threats. There is no way Haye would beat Vitali if he were to put in the performance he did against Valuev. Vitali is far better.

I also query your opinion that if Haye adopts Valuev tactics then he will be in for a painful night against Wlad. Wlads jab is good yes, but hes used to guys that are relatively static and come forward. When is the last time hes had to really go looking for someone with the speed and movement of Haye? I expect Haye will make him miss more than he ever has previously, and while this may not be enough to win rounds, I think he can avoid shipping too much punishment.

I actually thinks Hayes tactics on the outside would be harder to pull off against Vitali because instead of cautiously operating behind a jab, Vitali is capable of just wading in and applying real pressure. Wlad on the other hand is happy to hang back and try and jab away.

I suspect Haye would/will lose to both guys but both brothers offer different approaches. If Wlads jab fails to do the business, or if Haye can get through to him then Wlad is in trouble.

But if Vitalis jab fails or you are able to land on him, well its by no means over. He can fight you several different ways and absorb far more punishment.

Mainly on Wlad being quicker and a better all round boxer. Vit may be more rounded but he is still slow. The fighters he fought came to survive and not to win. They hardly threw anything back in anger. We saw in the Solis fight (all 2 minutes of it) that Vit is easy to hit and slow on foot and hands. If Hate adopts a more aggressive Valuev style approach, he wins a UD. Vit will tire hitting thin air.

As for Wlad, he will keep Haye at bay with his jab and boxing skills. Tie him up when he gets close and take zero chances in going toe to toe. Haye has to come forward with speed and blast him out inside 3 rounds otherwise he will lose either on points or a slow painful KO.

What does it tell you about Vitali that his opposition do just and survive rather than take the fight to him?

Other than speed and jab which on their own wont beat Haye, Vitali is better in every single way to Wlad, he would be able to compete in any era because of this whereas Wlad benefits from circumstance.

It would be interesting to see where the WBC rank Wlad, where the IBF and WBO rank Vitali, and where the WBA rank both of them...

Union Cane wrote:It would be interesting to see where the WBC rank Wlad, where the IBF and WBO rank Vitali, and where the WBA rank both of them...

Unranked as organisations dont rank champions from other organisations.

The WBC can't even spell the names of the divisions:

http://wbcboxing.com/indexEng.php

Heavyweigth
Lt Heaviweight
Middleweigt
L.t. Flyweight

What a shambolic organisation.

imperialghosty wrote:What does it tell you about Vitali that his opposition do just and survive rather than take the fight to him?

Other than speed and jab which on their own wont beat Haye, Vitali is better in every single way to Wlad, he would be able to compete in any era because of this whereas Wlad benefits from circumstance.

It tells me that fighters enter with a losers mentality.

Haye has speed. IMO speed kills. Vit is slow. Strong but still slow.

The jab is probably the most effective weapon in boxing. It sets everything else up. Vit's jab is slow and pawing. He lacks head movement. His hands are held low and relies on his chin too much. When hit often with the speed Haye has and his power, he will fall. He will also tire when plodding forward hitting thin air.

I dont think Vit could compete with the likes of Lewis, Bowe, Holy, Tyson, Holmes, Witherspoon, a motivated Greg Page (RIP) and many more. He would last the distance. Wlad would get KO by all of them. Styles make fights. Vit is made for a speedster like Haye. Wlad would wear down and KO Haye.

Well considering a past it Lewis was still a better technician than Witherspoon, Page or Tyson don't see how you can say he doesn't compete against them.

The jab is effective if you've got someone coming to you, you can use it to set up your shots but if you're chasing an opponent like Wlad will have to do against Haye then it loses a lot of it's sting, Haye has fairly decent head movement which will be more than enough to steer clear of someone as predictable as Wlad. The most dangerous punch is the punch you don't see and with Vitali you never know where the next punch is coming from which is what makes him a far more dangerous opponent.

imperialghosty wrote:Well considering a past it Lewis was still a better technician than Witherspoon, Page or Tyson don't see how you can say he doesn't compete against them.

The jab is effective if you've got someone coming to you, you can use it to set up your shots but if you're chasing an opponent like Wlad will have to do against Haye then it loses a lot of it's sting, Haye has fairly decent head movement which will be more than enough to steer clear of someone as predictable as Wlad. The most dangerous punch is the punch you don't see and with Vitali you never know where the next punch is coming from which is what makes him a far more dangerous opponent.

Lewis better than tyson? Another thread altogether.

Vit is slower than Wlad. I dont see how he can throw punches and not see them. Also Haye has relatively poor head movement imo....or it could be much better. Vit is the more predictable of the two based on his lack of speed, zero head movement and plodding foot style. He moves around the ring as if he has a ball and chain strapped to his ankles. He moved better years ago. Not anymore.

Yes the most dangerous punches are those you wont see. Haye's speed will see to that.

azania wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:I do think they use the dual contract situation to their advantage. Their doing it to Haye right now. He's not 100% sure who he will be facing and he will always have the thought in the back of his mind that if Wlad gets the OK from the doc's to fight he might still pull out at short notice and lump him with Vit. You need a different game plan for each brother which may put him off. I'm not sure this sits right with me but their not breaking any rules. I suppose any advantage is a good one.

I can imagine both brothers training for Haye. But training for Wlad means you also train for Vit. But not the other way around. Wlad is a better version of Vit.

Agree with you both on the who's facing who...

as much as it can be argued that it goes on with promoters and that the klit bots have earnt a certain amount of control due to there dominace in the heavyweight division, it does not change the fact that Haye potentially has to consider training for 2 different fighters where they both only have to train for him.

I always plump for Wlad. If a fighter had a pick between an opponent who was 40 and one was mid 30s, invariably 40 would be the ideal contest. He's more likely to slow down in later rounds, to have reduced reflexes, etc. They are different opponents to face, but if Haye has the beating one of them, I reckon he'd have a decent chance against the other as well. Broadly, physically similar, tall, same reach advantage, with good jabs. Haye's strategy may not differ greatly against either brother.

Still, its always worth training for them as separate fights. Combo's may be more successful against Wlad, with Vitali it's not a bad idea to pot shot the 12 rounds. Its always preferrably to have an edge and if the decision was on the basis of the more winnable fight, I'd guess that Haye would pick Vitali.

The fact a fighter may need to sign up to bouts against both brothers is a severe restriction. Also, they only need to fight one contender each so it reduces the competition. Not only that, but automatically the other top fighter of the era is removed from the equation. The Haye fight has taken substantial negotiations, the Vitali or Wlad card has been present the whole time. I'm not sure if it changes the landscape of boxing that much overall, but its still a restriction. This whole system in general should be more transparent.

ArchBritishchris wrote:I always plump for Wlad. If a fighter had a pick between an opponent who was 40 and one was mid 30s, invariably 40 would be the ideal contest. He's more likely to slow down in later rounds, to have reduced reflexes, etc. They are different opponents to face, but if Haye has the beating one of them, I reckon he'd have a decent chance against the other as well. Broadly, physically similar, tall, same reach advantage, with good jabs. Haye's strategy may not differ greatly against either brother.

Still, its always worth training for them as separate fights. Combo's may be more successful against Wlad, with Vitali it's not a bad idea to pot shot the 12 rounds. Its always preferrably to have an edge and if the decision was on the basis of the more winnable fight, I'd guess that Haye would pick Vitali.

The fact a fighter may need to sign up to bouts against both brothers is a severe restriction. Also, they only need to fight one contender each so it reduces the competition. Not only that, but automatically the other top fighter of the era is removed from the equation. The Haye fight has taken substantial negotiations, the Vitali or Wlad card has been present the whole time. I'm not sure if it changes the landscape of boxing that much overall, but its still a restriction. This whole system in general should be more transparent.

Haye has obviously gone all out to pick Wlad. Hes wanted little to do with Vitali. Its no coincindence that Wlad has been targetted both times by Haye.