Ulster v Edinburgh, Friday 2nd March, Ravenhill (kick off 7.05pm)

First topic message reminder :

Ulster Team and replacements to face Edinburgh, Friday 2nd March 2012, Ravenhill (kick-off 7.05pm)

(15-9): A D'Arcy; C Gilroy, I Whitten, P Wallace (capt), S Terblanche; R Pienaar, P Marshall;
(1-8): P McAllister, A Kyriacou, J Afoa, L Stevenson, D Tuohy, P Wannenburg, W Faloon, R Diack;
Replacements (16-23): N Brady, C Black, A Macklin, N McComb, M McComish, I Humphreys, L Marshall, C Cochrane

Edinburgh Rugby team:
15 Tom Brown; 14 Sep Visser ,13 Matt Scott, 12 John Houston, 11 Tim Visser; 10 Phil Godman, 9 Chris Leck; 1 Kyle Traynor, 2 Andrew Kelly, 3 Ulises Gamboa, 4 Grant Gilchrist 5 Sean Cox, 6 Stuart McInally, 7 Roddy Grant CAPTAIN, 8 Netani Talei. Substitutes: 16 Alun Walker, 17 Robin Hislop, 18 Jack Gilding, 19 Robert McAlpine, 20 Hamish Watson, 21 Alex Black, 22 Harry Leonard, 23 Chris Paterson

Yeah, possibly.

Actually the leading contender is apparently Matt Sexton. Sexton played for Ulster as hooker and is currently coaching at Canterbury Crusaders, where he's head of the Academy and coach of their reserve side.

So not much Head Coach experience on the CV but good pedigree when you look at the number of young players from that region who go on to New Zealand U20s and the All Blacks...

Stat of the weekend? Ulster are the league's leading try scorers with 40. Leinster second with 37. Not to shabby.

clivemcl wrote:Before anyone goes mad with excitement for Ulster can I be the first to say Whats going on with the kicking?

What has our kicking ratio been from the last 3/4 games? It seems to be Pienaar permanently these days despite being quite poor.

A Heineken Cup QF will need a better kicking ratio. For me it could be one of our biggest concerns right now.

aside from that, I'd like to once again call for tonights back three to be our first choice. adam Darcy does not deserve to miss out IMO

oh and one more thing...
...
...

This got lost in the thread just after full time, so I'm quoting myself again as I feel its a relevant issue? No?

clivemcl wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Before anyone goes mad with excitement for Ulster can I be the first to say Whats going on with the kicking?

What has our kicking ratio been from the last 3/4 games? It seems to be Pienaar permanently these days despite being quite poor.

A Heineken Cup QF will need a better kicking ratio. For me it could be one of our biggest concerns right now.

aside from that, I'd like to once again call for tonights back three to be our first choice. adam Darcy does not deserve to miss out IMO

oh and one more thing...
...
...

This got lost in the thread just after full time, so I'm quoting myself again as I feel its a relevant issue? No?

So you would have Trinble playing where? And just where would you have Bowe playing next year?

Rava, i was onviously talking about in Trimbles absence. If you check my posts you'll see I wanted this back three the last few games. I wonder how many teams darcy would start at fullback for? Especially during 6N. I felt that it was harsh on D'arcy to not even get a starting position when the internationals were unavailable. He got the chance, and he proved a point last night IMO. I also think his defence has improved hugely.

D'arcy was good but he made some errors too. Who got MOTM? Tuohy was very good s was Stevenson.

Think Afoa got MoTM. Which is fair as he was in a destructive mood. Pushing Edinburgh around.

I thought Pienaar at 10 was class. Such a gifted player, whatever number he's wearing.

Hi folks, just managed to watch this morning.

I thought it was an excellent performance, particularly the first half.

Something that stood out for me was the quick ruck ball. Both halfbacks were far better this week but what I liked was that we weren't waiting for the scrumhalf to get the ball away, Faloon, Afoa, Gilroy or whoever was there first were getting the ball straight out. Its something Leinster do and I'm delighted to see this.

I've said it before but I'll say it again. Our attack is much better and more fluent when both Faloon and D'arcy play. D'arcy in particular had a fantastic game and his break for Marshall try was electric.

After concerns about the backrow I thought they were all excellent.

Overall an excellent win and its the kind of performance that makes me scratch my head at why BM has been given the chop. There's no doubt in my mind that we are progressing as a team and are well in contention for two trophies this year.

I'd love to see BM stay on and perhaps Terblanche stay as backs coach, with Muller as forwards coach.

Edinburgh played some great attacking rugby too and Bradley has done a great job there. Visser is beast.

Last point is Paddy Wallace is playing the best rugby of his career. Irelands loss is Ulster gain.

Yeah I was pretty pleased with our back row, and the Edinburgh back row is a pretty good one. That guy Watson was a real pain, he had a great game. Faloon needs to put in more of those performances. He put in some thumping tackles, was great at the breakdown and just kept our attack flowing. D'Arcy was just such a threat with ball in hand, though he still has a lot to learn.

Although Humphreys played well in his cameo appearance, I would like to see Marshall and Pienaar more often. Pienaar is just incredible.

Yeah, maybe he'll get a recall for the Scotland game. He'd deserve it, but probably not going to be the start of a long indian summer in his international career. He'll only pick up a few more caps at best.

What happened to Wannenburg? Couldn't see any contact?

Think soft tissue damage. His arm was in a sling afterwards but he seemed happy enough.

Incident was on the other side of the pitch. Need to see it again.

Watched it on the replay, he just seemed to pull out of a tackle. There was no actual contact, I think, it must have just went on him.

Any word on whether Pedre will get another contract?

Whilst I'm happy with the win we still conceded 16 points against the worst team I can recall at ravenhill for some time. Terblanche Ballsed up the shooting role for their first (although I think they had numbers on us) and Gilroy was really poor on visser snr for his. Faloon was good but the amount of missed tackles was horrible with Pienaar culpable as well. Yer man Watson looked a world beater but he really should have been tackled better.

Some lovely attacking play though and the linking and offloading was good. Hard to be critical after 6 trys but I am thinking of thomond.

roddersm wrote:Overall an excellent win and its the kind of performance that makes me scratch my head at why BM has been given the chop. There's no doubt in my mind that we are progressing as a team and are well in contention for two trophies this year.

I'd love to see BM stay on and perhaps Terblanche stay as backs coach, with Muller as forwards coach.

Funny - it's the kind of performance that makes me glad BMcL is moving aside. Yet again Ulster start cold and concede the first score, and as is their wont they did the same in the second half. It's particularly their starts in the second half that convince me the team isn't coming back onto the pitch with clear thoughts in their heads. The repeating pattern is that of opposition coaches tinkering with their tactics to good effect and Ulster sent out with nothing but a "more of the same" word in their ear. I'd really like to see the scoring stats over the season and see how many points Ulster scored/conceded in both halves.

I also wonder about his nous when is comes to substitutions. He replaced Marshall with Humphreys, when a) Marsh was having a good game, b) Pienaar has nothing to prove and a rest would have protected him, and c) giving a Marsh/Humph combo some time would have been useful if the unmentionable happens to Ruan.

Hmm I think you are being harsh there aukster. To score 6 tries is an excellent return against a good side.

We've now scored 6 bonus points which compares very favourably against any of our rivals. We're certainly playing much better rugby than last season and the squad depth has improved markedly.

In terms of bringing on Ihumph. I thought it was a logical move and clearly BM is keeping his halfback options open for the Munster game.

Standulstermen wrote:Whilst I'm happy with the win we still conceded 16 points against the worst team I can recall at ravenhill for some time. Terblanche Ballsed up the shooting role for their first (although I think they had numbers on us) and Gilroy was really poor on visser snr for his. Faloon was good but the amount of missed tackles was horrible with Pienaar culpable as well. Yer man Watson looked a world beater but he really should have been tackled better.

Some lovely attacking play though and the linking and offloading was good. Hard to be critical after 6 trys but I am thinking of thomond.

I can only really recall one missed tackle from Faloon, on Talei off the base of the scrum which was poor. However, I saw Whitten miss a good few, and I think he and Faloon are easy to mix up. Whitten is not a 13, has the same issues as McFadden there.

roddersm wrote:Hmm I think you are being harsh there aukster. To score 6 tries is an excellent return against a good side.

We've now scored 6 bonus points which compares very favourably against any of our rivals. We're certainly playing much better rugby than last season and the squad depth has improved markedly.

In terms of bringing on Ihumph. I thought it was a logical move and clearly BM is keeping his halfback options open for the Munster game.

Plus Humphreys had a good game when he came on, which is great to see before the Munster game.

I thought I seen an error on the BBC website, two Visser's????

Brothers, Sepp and Tim. The younger is nowhere near as good as the elder.

Did not know of Tim's rugby playing brother. Is he capped by Holland yet? Ulster seem to be going well btw, did they not lose many players to international duty?

I think we are missing 5 on Ireland duty (Best, Ferris, Trimble, Court and Henry) plus a few out injured but yeah things are going pretty well right now in my opinion. Not perfect but pretty well.

Rory I wasn't saying faloon missed all those tackles, just a collective statement

Yeah, Sepp is a Dutch international. Not going to be good enough to play for Scotland anyway I'd wager.

Ulster have five players away with Ireland but also missing some key players through injury. Doing ok. Having Wallace available is massive for us, as well as the influence of Pienaar, Terblanche and Afoa.

Why has Sep been capped and not Tim? Sep is younger by 3 years.

I know and I don't know. I'm guessing they asked him and he said yes whilst his older, much more talented brother always wanted to keep his options open with regards to test rugby.

I think he turned down a cap for Holland as he wanted to play for England. Came over to England and played ? U18s for them. Got a contract with Newcastle and was with the Saints for a while but wasn't getting too much rugby.

The way I heard it he wanted to move to get more pitch time and thought playing for Edinburgh wouldn't be a problem so long as he kept a house in England. He hadn't quite qualified for England on residency and the move scuppered that so he decided to qualify for Scotland instead.

He will be Scottish in the summer I think.

I'm sure some of the Scottish lads could put me straight on the facts.

I think his Dad was a Dutch International too?

MrsP - think you're pretty much spot on with everything you said there.

Hadn't heard the thing about keeping an English house though, but could be correct.

either way I don't really care as long as he plays for Scotland!

I know Edinburgh were missing a lot but only 5 of the team on the pitch, after Wanneberg went off, will start against Munster. Also we finished the game with our 3rd string front row.

Given this was a reserve side in all but name it was a very encouraging performance.

5 out with Ireland and including, Wannenberg 10 injured.

Ending up playing for Scotland because although he was Dutch he wanted to play for England? And thought the move to Edinburgh would still allow him to choose England?

Not my business of course but apart from talent, is that the best CV you could write up for a place on the Scottish team. Personal ambition is one thing but that just sounds wrong.

Strauss might one day play for Ireland, but at least he won't have come on board by the circuitous route of being a South African who thought playing for Leinster might still keep him in contention for the All Blacks.

I hear nothing but praise for Bradely on here, but Edinburgh have been completely awful in the league. The HC performances are looking like a bit of a blip. Reinforcements cannot come soon enough. The depth of the Edinburgh squad is not good enough, and the defence utterly porous.

Obviously Cross, Ford, Jacobsen, Denton and Rennie returning will bring some steel to the pack, and Blair and Laidlaw some direction to the backs, but Edinburgh fans still deserve better. Some lessons need to be taken from Glasgow, who are making themselves extremely hard to beat in the absence of some key players (Low, Gray, Barclay, Cusiter, Weir, Morrison, DTH and Hogg).

Well played Ulster though. Some talented players coming through there.

It's hardly fair to blame Bradley for the lack of depth to a squad that he has had no hand in creating.

I suspect he realised that Edinburgh could not compete on 2 fronts and so has put all his eggs firmly in the most prestigious and probably financially most benificial basket of the HEC.

Edinburgh's previous record in the HEC is not exactly spectacular and the interest, belief and crowds (let alone money) this has already attracted can only be good in my opinion.

Perhaps, but surely I'm allowed to blame Bradley for the utter mess that is the Edinburgh defence? What about the selection of Godman over Leonard? Can I blame him for that?

Yes, he deserves credit for the style of play Edinburgh have adopted, and for the HC results. But he should also shoulder some blame for the deficincies as well. The league form is dire (yes, depth is an issue but there are also good players now playing to their potential or being utilised properly), and he should be judged on that as well. He's still in credit in my book, very much so, but we ought to be balanced. Edinburgh need to be able to play more than just one way, and need to start learning how to win games. Simply chucking the ball around all the time may be pleasing on the eye, but when Edinburgh don't have the ball they are a shambles. Unstructured attack is all very nice, but an unstructured defence (in the league) is costing them.

Hopefully next season, with players like Nel and Tonks coming in, and young players like Gilchrist, Leonard, Scott, Jones and McInally a year wiser, this can be sorted.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I hear nothing but praise for Bradely on here, but Edinburgh have been completely awful in the league. The HC performances are looking like a bit of a blip. Reinforcements cannot come soon enough. The depth of the Edinburgh squad is not good enough, and the defence utterly porous.

Obviously Cross, Ford, Jacobsen, Denton and Rennie returning will bring some steel to the pack, and Blair and Laidlaw some direction to the backs, but Edinburgh fans still deserve better. Some lessons need to be taken from Glasgow, who are making themselves extremely hard to beat in the absence of some key players (Low, Gray, Barclay, Cusiter, Weir, Morrison, DTH and Hogg).

Well played Ulster though. Some talented players coming through there.

First of all, im not defending our league form at all, its totally unacceptable. Second of all, im not having a pop at Glasgow, they are my second team.

But I dont want us to go down the Glasgow route. Glasgow have been winning games in the league consistently, even ones they had no right to, and drawing plenty others, but they havent shown a single shred of evidence that they can step up for big games. I cant recall one brilliant performance from them all season. Most of their results have been ground out through their forwards, which cant be compared to Edinburghs fairly. Glasgows pack is big and dominating, whereas Ford aside Edinburghs is much smaller, but more focused on providing quick ball and having players who are not going to break continuity if they pop up in the backline. Glasgow have one of the most underutilised back divisions in professional rugby, and if Edinburgh start trying to copy them, I fell well go the same way. Take away Edinburghs try scoring and we dont have much. We cant grind out wins like they can, which is not to say that their way is better or vice versa, but our problem is strength in depth. Our second choice players cant replicate what our first choicers are doing. Considering that Ford, De Luca, Blair and Laidlaw, who are the core which Edinburgh revolve around, havent played much pro12 due to international commitments, I can understand why were so low down. Im not saying the replacements are bad, (Except Kelly, whos been gash this season), but they either dont have the experience (Leonard), are a different type of player (Walker), or are being played out of position (Scott/Thompson).

With the first choice guys in the team, we are much better. Its just that we are a victim of these guys playing so well, in that they inevitably get called up to the Scotland squad. Hence why a couple of foreigners would be very handy.

Oh and please, please, sign a Lock!!!!!

I'm not suggesting Edinburgh go down the same road as Glasgow, just that they could take a leaf out of Glasgow's manual when it comes to attitude and defence. Likewise Glasgow could learn a thing or two from Edinburgh's approach to attack, and be more spontaneous from time to time.

Remember that Glasgow also finished 2nd in their HC group, beating Bath and Montpellier. I don't think Edinburgh would have been able to finish ahead of Leinster. When Glasgow walk onto the pitch you know they will make it hard on the opposition. Sometimes Edinburgh are their own worst enemies, gifting the opposition points. Edinburgh need to learn how to adapt to match circumstances. Sometimes you need to be able to close out games. Edinburgh need to learn that skill if they are to become a better side.