Weight Stipulations and Manny

First topic message reminder :

tunes666 wrote:Pac Man beat Cotto up, why is FMW not fighting him?.... same old crap...

No weight issues to "even" things out.

ShahenshahG wrote:True but there were weight stipulations - Personally DLH was at fault for that although I denied it at first. Think its tainted pacquiao.

Were there? I wasnt aware there were. I thought de la Hoya had just botched trying to make 147.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:If it makes no difference then why has Mayweather himself imposed a catchweight on an opponent?

Makes no difference on what?

Why do you hate on Pacquiao for requesting a catchweight but not Mayweather?

I didn't like Floyd doing it. But the difference was that Floyd didn't impose it on JMM. That Floyd ignored his own stipulation was low and imo very dabgerous and he should have had 50% of his purse docked for that.

But with Paq, he uses it as a strategy to weaken his opponents.Paq can fight at any weight between 140 and 147 pretty comfortably. Yet he chooses to further weaken his opponents. IMO its life threatening. And to ask Cotto to boil down to 147 even though he's a fully fledged LMW is vile.

I wasn't talking about Marquez, Mayweather imposed a catchweight on an earlier opponent and that too must have been life threatening?

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I wasn't talking about Marquez, Mayweather imposed a catchweight on an earlier opponent and that too must have been life threatening?

He did? Who was the guy?

It was Emmanuel Burton (Augustus).

Imperial Ghosty wrote:It was Emmanuel Burton (Augustus).

I wasn't aware of that. I've read Floyd refer to him as the best he's faced. Perhaps the stip was also to gain an extra edge over him.

Most probably as Burton did hold fairly significant size advantages, so did Mayweather endanger his life?

manos de piedra wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:True but there were weight stipulations - Personally DLH was at fault for that although I denied it at first. Think its tainted pacquiao.

Were there? I wasnt aware there were. I thought de la Hoya had just botched trying to make 147.

Im sure there was something to restrict his rehydration to a cdrtain number or am i totally off the mark

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I wasn't talking about Marquez, Mayweather imposed a catchweight on an earlier opponent and that too must have been life threatening?

Actually it was Marquez who wanted a catchweight at 144 pound, Mayweather agreed and punished him for it by coming over the limit...A penalty fine was a small price to pay.

ShahenshahG wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:True but there were weight stipulations - Personally DLH was at fault for that although I denied it at first. Think its tainted pacquiao.

Were there? I wasnt aware there were. I thought de la Hoya had just botched trying to make 147.

Im sure there was something to restrict his rehydration to a cdrtain number or am i totally off the mark

I thought I heard Roach say something about it after the fight but have never been able to find any conclusive evidence or proof of it.

The genius of PBF wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I wasn't talking about Marquez, Mayweather imposed a catchweight on an earlier opponent and that too must have been life threatening?

Actually it was Marquez who wanted a catchweight at 144 pound, Mayweather agreed and punished him for it by coming over the limit...A penalty fine was a small fine to pay.

Wasn't talking about the Marquez fight but i'm surprised you've forgotten a catchweight fight that you yourself had.

ShahenshahG wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:True but there were weight stipulations - Personally DLH was at fault for that although I denied it at first. Think its tainted pacquiao.

Were there? I wasnt aware there were. I thought de la Hoya had just botched trying to make 147.

Im sure there was something to restrict his rehydration to a cdrtain number or am i totally off the mark

That was the impression I had & also that Manny was 1lb heavier on the night. Could be wrong.

With regards to restricting rehydration or fight night weights this could be a fairer way to have gone about it. The Cotto fight (1st 1) could've been made at 147 but with a fight night weight limit. We probably all remember Gatti coming 2 or 3 weights up against Gamache (?) & almost killing him as well as more recently Chavez jnr almost hitting LHW allegedly.

ShahenshahG wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:True but there were weight stipulations - Personally DLH was at fault for that although I denied it at first. Think its tainted pacquiao.

Were there? I wasnt aware there were. I thought de la Hoya had just botched trying to make 147.

Im sure there was something to restrict his rehydration to a cdrtain number or am i totally off the mark

I dont know for sure but I wasnt aware of it. I thought de la Hoya had just pushed himself to hard to make the weight and come in underweight and badly dehydrated. The hydration thing was due to him needing an iv drip to aid rehydration.

Id be surprised if Pacquiao could have enforced any major demands on him because de la Hoya is probably one of the few guys around that was more powerful than him and brought more money.

As far as I know de la Hoya didnt allude to any demands on him. He just seemed to say he was more or less finished and couldnt pull the trigger anymore.

sohotnot wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:True but there were weight stipulations - Personally DLH was at fault for that although I denied it at first. Think its tainted pacquiao.

Were there? I wasnt aware there were. I thought de la Hoya had just botched trying to make 147.

Im sure there was something to restrict his rehydration to a cdrtain number or am i totally off the mark

That was the impression I had & also that Manny was 1lb heavier on the night. Could be wrong.

With regards to restricting rehydration or fight night weights this could be a fairer way to have gone about it. The Cotto fight (1st 1) could've been made at 147 but with a fight night weight limit. We probably all remember Gatti coming 2 or 3 weights up against Gamache (?) & almost killing him as well as more recently Chavez jnr almost hitting LHW allegedly.

I think that limiting rehydration would be too dangerous to impose, the reason we had the Kim, McLellan, Ingle and Watson tragedies was because they didn't have the time to rehydrate fully after making weight.

MANILA, Philippines - Manny Pacquiao was sure he was at 146 pounds for the final weigh-in.

So it surprised him to see he came out four pounds lighter.

Pacquiao tipped the scales at 142 pounds, way off the weight he and his team were expecting.

"Yes, a little bit of a surprise. Seems the scale got calibrated," Freddie Roach told Manila-based journalists inside the press room on Friday after the weigh-in.

Shortly after the weigh-in, Pacquiao went back to his room and used a different scale. He came in at 145.5 pounds, the same weight he had in the morning after breakfast, according to Roach.

Pacquiao was amazed at the difference, disclosing the night before and just an hour before the official weigh-in that he both checked in at 146 pounds.

"I didn't do anything to reduce weight, so I don't know why I came in at 142?" Pacquiao said. "It's hard to be suspicious but as you can see, there's a difference between how I weighed out there and here."

Pacquiao said if there was a four-pound difference between his two "weigh-ins", it could be the same for de la Hoya. "So does that mean Oscar was at 149 pounds?"

A clause in the contracts signed by both Pacquiao and de la Hoya will have de la Hoya paying a $3-million penalty for every excess pound over 147 pounds.

Pacquiao said he didn't want to make a big deal out of the situation. "I don't want to make that an excuse for whatever happens."

i copied this from esb i cant find the source cuz i havent got an account there

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Most probably as Burton did hold fairly significant size advantages, so did Mayweather endanger his life?

I believe he put himself in greater danger.

Thats just a clause stating that Oscar would be fined if he didnt make the weight limit which is pretty standard these days. It doesnt really impose any additional weight obligations on him.

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Most probably as Burton did hold fairly significant size advantages, so did Mayweather endanger his life?

I believe he put himself in greater danger.

So Pacquiao further endangers Cottos life but Burton himself puts himself in greater danger?

manos de piedra wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:True but there were weight stipulations - Personally DLH was at fault for that although I denied it at first. Think its tainted pacquiao.

Were there? I wasnt aware there were. I thought de la Hoya had just botched trying to make 147.

Im sure there was something to restrict his rehydration to a cdrtain number or am i totally off the mark

I dont know for sure but I wasnt aware of it. I thought de la Hoya had just pushed himself to hard to make the weight and come in underweight and badly dehydrated. The hydration thing was due to him needing an iv drip to aid rehydration.

Id be surprised if Pacquiao could have enforced any major demands on him because de la Hoya is probably one of the few guys around that was more powerful than him and brought more money.

As far as I know de la Hoya didnt allude to any demands on him. He just seemed to say he was more or less finished and couldnt pull the trigger anymore.

At the time of the fight, PAq was a nobody in comparison to what he is now.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Most probably as Burton did hold fairly significant size advantages, so did Mayweather endanger his life?

I believe he put himself in greater danger.

So Pacquiao further endangers Cottos life but Burton himself puts himself in greater danger?

I meantFloyd put him in greater danger. But I'm unaware of any weight stips other than the JMM fight. Just checked Boxrec. They both came in at 135 for a LW fight. What weight stip did Floyd impose?

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

sohotnot wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:True but there were weight stipulations - Personally DLH was at fault for that although I denied it at first. Think its tainted pacquiao.

Were there? I wasnt aware there were. I thought de la Hoya had just botched trying to make 147.

Im sure there was something to restrict his rehydration to a cdrtain number or am i totally off the mark

That was the impression I had & also that Manny was 1lb heavier on the night. Could be wrong.

With regards to restricting rehydration or fight night weights this could be a fairer way to have gone about it. The Cotto fight (1st 1) could've been made at 147 but with a fight night weight limit. We probably all remember Gatti coming 2 or 3 weights up against Gamache (?) & almost killing him as well as more recently Chavez jnr almost hitting LHW allegedly.

I think that limiting rehydration would be too dangerous to impose, the reason we had the Kim, McLellan, Ingle and Watson tragedies was because they didn't have the time to rehydrate fully after making weight.

I see what you mean with the above examples but it seems crazy as with Chavez jnr coming in massively over the MW limit & Margarito after making 150 he supposedly blew up overnight, that fighters are still allowed to fight even though they exceed the limit by more than one weight division

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Most probably as Burton did hold fairly significant size advantages, so did Mayweather endanger his life?

I believe he put himself in greater danger.

Its not really much different for any fighter making a weight limit. Was Cotto endangering his own life when he was fighting at 140lbs and battling the scales more? Did Malignaggi bear responsiblity for Cotto fighting at 140 when he would have been more comfortable at 147?

You agree to a fight a weight limit. Whether its catchweight or "official" the same issues will arise. If you cant make the weight without putting yourself at serious risk then its your own responsibility to refuse the fight regardless of how juicy the money involved is.

I believe Cotto felt he could make 145 without endangering his life. He had made 146 in his previous fight so it was an extra pound to come down from that. I think he knew that it wasnt a life threatning risk. There are always going to be associated dangers with fighters making weight and trying to hit certain limits. Many fighters battle the scales especially lower down.

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Most probably as Burton did hold fairly significant size advantages, so did Mayweather endanger his life?

I believe he put himself in greater danger.

So Pacquiao further endangers Cottos life but Burton himself puts himself in greater danger?

I meantFloyd put him in greater danger. But I'm unaware of any weight stips other than the JMM fight. Just checked Boxrec. They both came in at 135 for a LW fight. What weight stip did Floyd impose?

They came in at 134lbs for a 134lb catchweight fight, Burton was after all a light welterweight for the majority of his career having titles fight at the weight previously to the Mayweather fight.

sohotnot wrote:

I see what you mean with the above examples but it seems crazy as with Chavez jnr coming in massively over the MW limit & Margarito after making 150 he supposedly blew up overnight, that fighters are still allowed to fight even though they exceed the limit by more than one weight division

Don't think there is a perfect way of doing it any more, weigh ins on the day of the fight are risky, imposing rehydration limits are risky. The closest thing we have to perfection at the moment is the IBF who don't allow fighters to fight for their title if they are 10% over the limit on a preliminary weigh in on the day of the fight although they don't enforce it as stringently when the money is right.

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Most probably as Burton did hold fairly significant size advantages, so did Mayweather endanger his life?

I believe he put himself in greater danger.

Its not really much different for any fighter making a weight limit. Was Cotto endangering his own life when he was fighting at 140lbs and battling the scales more? Did Malignaggi bear responsiblity for Cotto fighting at 140 when he would have been more comfortable at 147?

You agree to a fight a weight limit. Whether its catchweight or "official" the same issues will arise. If you cant make the weight without putting yourself at serious risk then its your own responsibility to refuse the fight regardless of how juicy the money involved is.

I believe Cotto felt he could make 145 without endangering his life. He had made 146 in his previous fight so it was an extra pound to come down from that. I think he knew that it wasnt a life threatning risk. There are always going to be associated dangers with fighters making weight and trying to hit certain limits. Many fighters battle the scales especially lower down.

Cotto would have made 143 with the money offered. And Team Manny knew that.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Most probably as Burton did hold fairly significant size advantages, so did Mayweather endanger his life?

I believe he put himself in greater danger.

So Pacquiao further endangers Cottos life but Burton himself puts himself in greater danger?

I meantFloyd put him in greater danger. But I'm unaware of any weight stips other than the JMM fight. Just checked Boxrec. They both came in at 135 for a LW fight. What weight stip did Floyd impose?

They came in at 134lbs for a 134lb catchweight fight, Burton was after all a light welterweight for the majority of his career having titles fight at the weight previously to the Mayweather fight.

Are you making things up? Was the contracted weight 134 or was the fight for the LW title at the correct weight? A quick glance at boxrec shows Burton's weight fighting under 140 and having a fight weighing 135 after he fought floyd.

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Most probably as Burton did hold fairly significant size advantages, so did Mayweather endanger his life?

I believe he put himself in greater danger.

Its not really much different for any fighter making a weight limit. Was Cotto endangering his own life when he was fighting at 140lbs and battling the scales more? Did Malignaggi bear responsiblity for Cotto fighting at 140 when he would have been more comfortable at 147?

You agree to a fight a weight limit. Whether its catchweight or "official" the same issues will arise. If you cant make the weight without putting yourself at serious risk then its your own responsibility to refuse the fight regardless of how juicy the money involved is.

I believe Cotto felt he could make 145 without endangering his life. He had made 146 in his previous fight so it was an extra pound to come down from that. I think he knew that it wasnt a life threatning risk. There are always going to be associated dangers with fighters making weight and trying to hit certain limits. Many fighters battle the scales especially lower down.

Cotto would have made 143 with the money offered. And Team Manny knew that.

So why didnt they? Why not make it at 140lb then?

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Most probably as Burton did hold fairly significant size advantages, so did Mayweather endanger his life?

I believe he put himself in greater danger.

So Pacquiao further endangers Cottos life but Burton himself puts himself in greater danger?

I meantFloyd put him in greater danger. But I'm unaware of any weight stips other than the JMM fight. Just checked Boxrec. They both came in at 135 for a LW fight. What weight stip did Floyd impose?

They came in at 134lbs for a 134lb catchweight fight, Burton was after all a light welterweight for the majority of his career having titles fight at the weight previously to the Mayweather fight.

Are you making things up? Was the contracted weight 134 or was the fight for the LW title at the correct weight? A quick glance at boxrec shows Burton's weight fighting under 140 and having a fight weighing 135 after he fought floyd.

It was contracted at 134lbs in a non title affair, fail to see the difference in Cotto draining a further 1lb and Burton draining down further than usual or does it not suit your Pacquiao is bad while Mayweather is good theory?

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Most probably as Burton did hold fairly significant size advantages, so did Mayweather endanger his life?

I believe he put himself in greater danger.

Its not really much different for any fighter making a weight limit. Was Cotto endangering his own life when he was fighting at 140lbs and battling the scales more? Did Malignaggi bear responsiblity for Cotto fighting at 140 when he would have been more comfortable at 147?

You agree to a fight a weight limit. Whether its catchweight or "official" the same issues will arise. If you cant make the weight without putting yourself at serious risk then its your own responsibility to refuse the fight regardless of how juicy the money involved is.

I believe Cotto felt he could make 145 without endangering his life. He had made 146 in his previous fight so it was an extra pound to come down from that. I think he knew that it wasnt a life threatning risk. There are always going to be associated dangers with fighters making weight and trying to hit certain limits. Many fighters battle the scales especially lower down.

Cotto would have made 143 with the money offered. And Team Manny knew that.

So why didnt they? Why not make it at 140lb then?

Probably because it would have been a very blatent cheat and everyone would have screamed "weight drained". But 145 means that people can argue about it being only a couple pounds.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Most probably as Burton did hold fairly significant size advantages, so did Mayweather endanger his life?

I believe he put himself in greater danger.

So Pacquiao further endangers Cottos life but Burton himself puts himself in greater danger?

I meantFloyd put him in greater danger. But I'm unaware of any weight stips other than the JMM fight. Just checked Boxrec. They both came in at 135 for a LW fight. What weight stip did Floyd impose?

They came in at 134lbs for a 134lb catchweight fight, Burton was after all a light welterweight for the majority of his career having titles fight at the weight previously to the Mayweather fight.

Are you making things up? Was the contracted weight 134 or was the fight for the LW title at the correct weight? A quick glance at boxrec shows Burton's weight fighting under 140 and having a fight weighing 135 after he fought floyd.

It was contracted at 134lbs in a non title affair, fail to see the difference in Cotto draining a further 1lb and Burton draining down further than usual or does it not suit your Pacquiao is bad while Mayweather is good theory?

If it was contracted at 134 then its appaling and yo uwont get an argument from me on that issue. But I'd like to see some evidence or report on that.

Catchweights should only be done on a 'non' title fight, meaning if you want to fight for a belt it MUST be done at the upper limit of each weight class!

e.g Pacman v Cotto should have been contested up to 147, the catchweight was clearly done to give Pacman an advantage, also if the extra 1/2 lbs dont make a difference then why did Pacman ask for Cotto to fight at 145 and not 147?

Teddy Atlas was spot on in saying Roach saw Cotto was damage goods post Margarito and they knew mentally he wasnt same fighter so they went and took his title, when the lineal welterweight champ at the time was Sugar Shane Mosley. Guess what? Roach told Mosley to fight at catchweight of 142, why? so he can give Manny the advantage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpxtKlVQqCU

Thats an interesting link with sheer facts and figures the people who are Pacman nuthuggers should watch this.

PPVxHOTTY wrote:Catchweights should only be done on a 'non' title fight, meaning if you want to fight for a belt it MUST be done at the upper limit of each weight class!

e.g Pacman v Cotto should have been contested up to 147, the catchweight was clearly done to give Pacman an advantage, also if the extra 1/2 lbs dont make a difference then why did Pacman ask for Cotto to fight at 145 and not 147?

Teddy Atlas was spot on in saying Roach saw Cotto was damage goods post Margarito and they knew mentally he wasnt same fighter so they went and took his title, when the lineal welterweight champ at the time was Sugar Shane Mosley. Guess what? Roach told Mosley to fight at catchweight of 142, why? so he can give Manny the advantage.

Absolutely spot on. Yet some still believe that it was done for Manny to dip his toes in the WW division and not to gain any advantage.

Watch the fight Az and they mention the weight issues in it at some point.

Azania

Augustus vs Mayweather was agreed on 134 pounds

sorry cant find it - probably a mistake on my part

azania wrote:

PPVxHOTTY wrote:Catchweights should only be done on a 'non' title fight, meaning if you want to fight for a belt it MUST be done at the upper limit of each weight class!

e.g Pacman v Cotto should have been contested up to 147, the catchweight was clearly done to give Pacman an advantage, also if the extra 1/2 lbs dont make a difference then why did Pacman ask for Cotto to fight at 145 and not 147?

Teddy Atlas was spot on in saying Roach saw Cotto was damage goods post Margarito and they knew mentally he wasnt same fighter so they went and took his title, when the lineal welterweight champ at the time was Sugar Shane Mosley. Guess what? Roach told Mosley to fight at catchweight of 142, why? so he can give Manny the advantage.

Absolutely spot on. Yet some still believe that it was done for Manny to dip his toes in the WW division and not to gain any advantage.

Don't even know why you're wasting you're energy arguing with these lot azania, simple point is... Cotto fighting at 145 instead of 147 wouldn't make any difference to the result 'which I agree even at 147 Pacman would have won' then why did they impose the stipulation on Cotto? Till this day no1 can provide an answer to this question cos its quite clear and simple, Pacman used to this to gain an advantage!!

Nobody is disputing that the catchweight was used to level the playing field or gain an advantage but it isn't something unique to Pacquiao, the shameful part was insisting on having the title on the line. No title on the line and I wouldn't have had a problem with it nor would I have had a problem with the Margarito fight at 150lbs.

PPVxHOTTY wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpxtKlVQqCU

Thats an interesting link with sheer facts and figures the people who are Pacman nuthuggers should watch this.

Great link.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Watch the fight Az and they mention the weight issues in it at some point.

I'll take your word on it. I believe its shocking. As I've said, I'm no fan of cw and see it as life endangering.

It is in no way more life endangering than any weight limit.

Burton, Cotto, Margarito, LaLonde, Berg, Louis, Whitaker, Martinez, Hopkins as well as hundreds of others agree to the catchweights, the responsibility is with them and no one else.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Nobody is disputing that the catchweight was used to level the playing field or gain an advantage but it isn't something unique to Pacquiao, the shameful part was insisting on having the title on the line. No title on the line and I wouldn't have had a problem with it nor would I have had a problem with the Margarito fight at 150lbs.

With Manny it was not about levelling the playing field. It was to gain every advantage they could legally get. Roach said it himself regarding SSM. Such cherry picking and stips is unique to Paq. Other fighters have fought CW fights but none have done it so cynically. His career post SFW is manufactured. Especially after Oscar made the catastrophic error in coming in at 147 on fight night. It made Manny a star with a good story to sell. A little guy fighting bigger guys and beating them. But the story behind that tells something else.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:It is in no way more life endangering than any weight limit.

Burton, Cotto, Margarito, LaLonde, Berg, Louis, Whitaker, Martinez, Hopkins as well as hundreds of others agree to the catchweights, the responsibility is with them and no one else.

If you are fighting at your natural weight and then decide to come in lighter because you are contracted to do so, you are putting your life in greater danger because of the dangers of dehydration. It doesn't matter how many have done it. Its easier on bigger guys but at MW or below it becomes more dangerous because the difference in weight categories can be sorted with an enema.

Of course its their responsibility. Its also the responsibility of boxers to retire, but they are often the last to know when to hang them up. These are not "normal" people we are talking about. They get punched in the head for a living. They often need protecting from themselves.

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:It is in no way more life endangering than any weight limit.

Burton, Cotto, Margarito, LaLonde, Berg, Louis, Whitaker, Martinez, Hopkins as well as hundreds of others agree to the catchweights, the responsibility is with them and no one else.

If you are fighting at your natural weight and then decide to come in lighter because you are contracted to do so, you are putting your life in greater danger because of the dangers of dehydration. It doesn't matter how many have done it. Its easier on bigger guys but at MW or below it becomes more dangerous because the difference in weight categories can be sorted with an enema.

The odd pound here and there really doesn't make a difference to your health, if you're struggling at 145lbs then you're going to struggle slightly above that too, Watson and McLellan both moved up in weight and were severely weight drained. The point being the any perceived risk is the responsbility of the fighter themselves not their opponent.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:It is in no way more life endangering than any weight limit.

Burton, Cotto, Margarito, LaLonde, Berg, Louis, Whitaker, Martinez, Hopkins as well as hundreds of others agree to the catchweights, the responsibility is with them and no one else.

If you are fighting at your natural weight and then decide to come in lighter because you are contracted to do so, you are putting your life in greater danger because of the dangers of dehydration. It doesn't matter how many have done it. Its easier on bigger guys but at MW or below it becomes more dangerous because the difference in weight categories can be sorted with an enema.

The odd pound here and there really doesn't make a difference to your health, if you're struggling at 145lbs then you're going to struggle slightly above that too, Watson and McLellan both moved up in weight and were severely weight drained. The point being the any perceived risk is the responsbility of the fighter themselves not their opponent.

The odd pound can make a huge difference. When you lose that odd pound, why not lose another odd pound. Boxers lose the odd pound to make weight. To ask them too lose the odd 2 pounds is a struggle and does affect performance and probably health.

Absolutely not, we are not talking about other pounds on top of a couple but a mere 1lb it simply makes no difference.

The CW stipulations enforced by Pacquiao's team (and Pacquiao's implicit compliance with the whole thing) are definitely a stain on his recent record. But, saying that, I don't think for one second that the 145 limit affected Cotto badly. This seemed to me just like extra point scoring by the Pacquiao team i.e. they are in the driving seat, so they'll take any advantage they can get, no matter how small it is. Really the stipulation was unnecessary in material terms, but has just served to provide another asterisk against a Pacquiao victory (as there is next to practically all of his wins from SFW to 154).

Floyd's behaviour with Marquez was far worse. Make a guy come up 2 divisions, agree a CW, then deliberately ignore it and pay the fine. Although I'd say Floyd has imposed far less stipulations on fighters than Pacquiao in recent years. They both behave terribly now.They are so big that they can get anyone do to anything they want (apart from each other). I read recently on boxing scene that Floyd never intends to give Pacquiao a 50/50 split on their fight, which is as much to say 'I will never fight him'. Boxing fans can play the amateur financial adviser all they want and talk about how Floyd sells more pay-per-views, etc, etc but this whole situation only goes to prove that he cares far more about winning a business deal than winning a fight. It's absolutely disgusting how much time he spends talking about money/deals rather than actually fighting (or even talking about fighting). What's worse, loads of fans appear to be sucked in by this, and now have seemingly become spectators of boxing's business deals rather than it's fights. It's a joke.

These two are going to be remembered for the fights they didn't have, and the challenges they didn't face, rather than what they have achieved.

/rant over

azania wrote:The odd pound can make a huge difference. When you lose that odd pound, why not lose another odd pound. Boxers lose the odd pound to make weight. To ask them too lose the odd 2 pounds is a struggle and does affect performance and probably health.

I don't know how you can make that argument with any certainty. It's so dependent on the individual boxer's situation. I'd say that in the vast majority of cases an extra pound or two would not have a great deal of difference. It would only be a big deal for a fighter that had a great deal of trouble making a particular weight class. I don't think, at the time, that Cotto had, in professional boxing terms, a particularly hard time making the limit. It certainly wouldn't have helped him having to cut those 2 pounds - and I'll agree that it's an unnecessary, somewhat laughable, and perhaps even a little bit cowardly stipulation enforced by Manny and his team - but I doubt it caused major risk to Cotto's health.

He also could have refused to sign the contract like Floyd. Quite possibly this generations biggest talent and coward.