The French and the Irish - who is going to win on Sunday?

First topic message reminder :

At least I think it's Sunday. I thought it had been rescheduled for the 3rd but the BBC says the 4th.

My heart says both teams have been misfiring and it's a very even game. My head says the Irish have been trying hard but not quite making it work whereas the French have done just enough to win and they'll up their game again to win this one.

If the French DO win, it's definitely squeaky bum time for the Welsh!

Gibson wrote:With you all the way on that one Fly. Must go for it. Only way to win it. And our Deccie is showing dangerous signs of becoming proactive recently. We live in hope.

Jaysus, i just spat me coffee out. That was almost a compliment for Deccie there Gibbo

Rory_Gallagher wrote: They just need to learn how to share their roles and play with some intensity. Something a lot of our pack I feel have been lacking in lately. Intensity.

We go back to the hopes that some of the players aren't using this as a training phase for 'bigger' prizes or smokescreens to effect 'bigger' prizes. We all hope not but jury is still kinda out on that one.

I think that is what sets Wales apart from a lot of other teams ATM. They play with such intensity. You can tell they want it more than we do. Like I've heard all the things about how Wales are the best because they have 10 world class players etc etc but really it is just down to the intensity they perform with. Plus having a leader like Warburton who just gives his all is a real boost on top of that. POC I suppose is the same for Ireland, but he is getting older.

good points all. if we start well and take it to them we can do it. we have the players.

my concern however is the interviews with squad after last week. The only real issue according to players and management was overplaying in our own half. seeing as we either run everything or kick everything (no inbetween) that would lead me to believe we will be kicking away huge amounts of possession on Sunday. Im worried that nobody mentioned the real issue is that we do things at a snails pace in attack. this is a pop at kidney and smal not young murray by the way. poc and ross carrying far too much ball from a standing start. hopefully we throw off the shackles and up the tempo on sunday. not sure we will though : (

Giving vast quantities of the ball to the French with their lineout, counterattacking back 3 and scoring ability is suicide. Also our defence has not been at its best of late.

I hope we keep the ball in the hand like the scots did and make france defend. its certainly not their strongpoint. Scotland have improved but we have better players if we use them correctly we can score tries.

so after that ramble im going France 30-18 Ireland. Another late comeback in Paris after a poor start

not sure i quite buy the intensity argument fully rory. i have no doubt our players are putting their body on the line for the green jersey.

i think we set out to play a slow calculated territorial game and grind teams down. then when we have worn them down we go wide, ala 2nd half v italy. i will concede that our intensity in defence would appear to be lacking. we stood off wales and let them bully us. we needed somebody to do a Drico on Dannie Rossouw and say you are not going to march us 70 yards down the pitch on our own patch. never happened alas

as for Wales. they are a good powerful young team and have the winning habit. they are mature beyond their years. they have some decent and very big backs and have massively improved defensively. They also have balance in the back row and get their best ball carriers on the ball in the right parts of the pitch. Warburton is a decent player but hardly captain marvel just yet. They are beatable though. I think France will beat them

Well, I remember reading something about why the southern hemisphere nations are better than us up north. Apparently it was the intensity with which they play that set them apart. Every ruck, every time they got the ball, every kick. They ooze confidence, but they are on fire the full 80 mins (for the most part).

Now I don't know about you but I have seen a lot more intensity from Ireland in the past than they are showing now. A good example would be the game against England last year. Now however, it is lacking somewhat. Like I said, for Wales Warburton really boosts the team in this regard. Maybe we are lacking without BOD. He gets everyone fired up, and he plays his heart out for the team.

Get in to them Gibbo - Max Boyce is actually from my little village Glynneath and still lives there, his house is right next door to the rugby club - Top bloke in all honesty,

Look. Ireland have played twice so far. Lost to pre tournement favourites but were not totally played off the park. Played a little better (but not great) against a difficult side to beat in Italy and really put the points on them.

Ireland are not in as bad a shape as we all think.

With the talent we have at our disposal, being 8th in the world I think is a very poor position to be in honestly.

I personally have seen very minimal evidence of the Irish rugby team being in good shape.Ample evidence that Irish rugby is in good shape looking at Heiniken Cup performances.

We will see on Sunday anyway. These are a massive 3 games for Kidney. He must get 2 wins.

It is a poor position but a few good wins and that will improve. YAZOO my friends

Rory_Gallagher wrote:With the talent we have at our disposal, being 8th in the world I think is a very poor position to be in honestly.

+ 1...and infrastructure and finances Rory. Our national team is a poor reflection of the current state of Irish rugby. Given that the whole set up is in place to benefit the national team, how they are performing on a regular basis is just not good enough.

Ireland are generally slow starters, both in the games themselves and in the competitions they enter. (Munster tend to become much more menacing after Christmas. Leinster waited a full half a game before they tried to win a HC - as examples) It seems to be an innate characteristic that is only broken by those renowned games when we turn up the speed dial in the first half too (England).

The England performance is now an exception to a rule though. Rather than us saying we should play our 'England' game more - maybe we should ask the fundamentals about why we somehow can't. Can't motivate ourselves to, can't be bothered to, can't mentally rise up to it -can't or don't want to handle early pace?

What's our eternal problem of giving even poor sides the breaks they like to sniff in the early stages before we try to get down to business in the second half? Why do we think it is necessary to break down sides in the first half? Shouldn't it be play to win from the beginning? And if that means playing fast, loose attacking rugby, then why not?

I think we try to disguise weaknesses when we say we like to break down sides first. It isn't breaking down, it's containing their impulses to play fast and loose in the first half. I don't think we can live with pace in the first half and therefore naturally try to kill that kind of a game.

I think that must come from the weekly buildups and how the tempo of training shifts in a week. We like to have energy for 2nd halves and so perhaps lessen up on preparations in the final days..letting the 1st half itself be the warm-up preparation for the game we intend playing in the 2nd half! Might appear strange but I've always suspected that our training patterns during the build up week have a lot to do with bitsy intensity, especially in the first halves.

eirebilly wrote:It is a poor position but a few good wins and that will improve. YAZOO my friends

Please pass your optimism onto me eirebilly your posts always do bring a smile to a deeply depressed fan like myself!

I think we can beat them. They're a good team, they just made the WC final, fair dos to them. But does anyone remember 2004, we had to play the world CHAMPIONS away from home, nobody gave us a chance and we picked their pocket.

Fook this talk of ah well sure we'll go out and give it a lash. Walk out there and fkin sow it into your opponent, hit him hard, he's no relation.

Eireann Abú!

I tell you now Rory, if Ireland win on Sunday, they will win the 6N on points

The side is there, are improving and starting to gel.

In the words of Gibbo

BELIEVE

eirebilly wrote:I tell you now Rory, if Ireland win on Sunday, they will win the 6N on points

The side is there, are improving and starting to gel.

If this side win on Sunday............................. every one of them, even the subs that didn't play, and Kidney and his coaches and the new guy Foley...and all their families will be taken outside and................... (well, new Euro rules forbid me from saying anything about bad things ) if they conspire to then lose to Scotland and/or England. Tough love I say... and there are new lads trying to get in anyway so we will need the shirts.

They wont lose Fly, they wont lose. Ireland by 5

so much for under forecast and over deliver

admire your positivity gents.. even rodders caught the bug in the lead up to the wales game. now gibbo whatever next

i got the positivity bug in the lead up to last two wales games. never again. misery is the way foward..

It's hard to forget the steam roller job Rougerie did on Darce last year. We need to try and negate their centres. Could we excuse a backrow from ruck duty in open broken play to shadow the centres?

Off Line outs, perhaps start the blindside wing in closer when sweeping. Personally I would like to see the blindside winger just a meter behind Darce allowing a double choke tackle if it's on or opportunity to steal. If first up tackle is missed he can make the cover tackle. If ball is passed before contact he can slide into Earls chanel and do the same job.

Not really a whole lot you can do off a scrum so no knocks on please boys.

Ok Deccie, here's de plan biy. Revenge for keeping us waiting in the cold for nowt like.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDBEGbi7Djs&feature=share

Believe.

That's not a bad game! And if the girls are essential to the rules then I say we should play it seriously.

RubyGuby wrote:Get in to them Gibbo - Max Boyce is actually from my little village Glynneath and still lives there, his house is right next door to the rugby club - Top bloke in all honesty,

Ah nice, man. He is sooo Welsh, he reminds me of my bud Penfro. When we get razzed together on Tour, its the nationalistic-twins. Looking forward to seeing more sexshy rugby, from the sexshyest team in the NH next week.

Cymru Am Byth!

I hope Sunday's game lives up to it's billing. Could be a fantastic ad for NH rugby.

I have a feeling this is when Sexton really announces himself on the World Stage proper. He has already dismantled most of these players, with their clubs, in the HC. Just needs to go out and do it in Green.

Mickado wrote:I think we can beat them.

Of course we can beat them, I have zero doubt about that. What I do doubt is whether we'll see the 80minutes of well executed rugby and physical intensity that we need to do it. The big performances are far too few and far between these days.

Unfortunately you just don't know what you'll get with Ireland these days as we have no consistant game plan anymore, just a mish mash of a negative kicking game combined with a reckless running game which occaisionally but rarely clicks to devastating effect.

The set piece is good, we are strong at the breakdown and there are classy players out wide but we are constantly let down by poor descision making, lack of leadership, negative or naive tactics and sloppy execution.

Sundays match is crucial and it is a must win game, not only in the context of the tournament but for the RWC seedings.

More than anything we need to win to prove we are still a force in world rugby.

Gibson wrote:Ok Deccie, here's de plan biy. Revenge for keeping us waiting in the cold for nowt like.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDBEGbi7Djs&feature=share

Believe.

Ver...verilly erudite referee?

roddersm wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:With the talent we have at our disposal, being 8th in the world I think is a very poor position to be in honestly.

+ 1...and infrastructure and finances Rory. Our national team is a poor reflection of the current state of Irish rugby. Given that the whole set up is in place to benefit the national team, how they are performing on a regular basis is just not good enough.

Those positions are all irrelephant and temporary. Mean nothing. As long as you are not out of the Top 8. Each game in this gig is a mini-battle. Its one-on-one.

I really think we are going to take the French this time. No shheet. Need 6 or 7 of our best players to win their one-on-ones with their opposites and we are there.

And play like semi-controlled looneys for the 1st 83 mins.

It is very relevant to the world cup seedings Gibson. We really shouldn't be 8th anyway.

Win in France and England and we are in with a chance of a top seed.

Worth fighting for

"Declan - Irish Independent here - Two games down, one loss, one win and next up is traditionally our toughest opponent.
Two questions for you. One, are you comfortable that Murray can control a game with so much depending on it in Paris - and secondly, where's the Loon factor gone in this side in recent years?"

Yes they are Gibson. Wales, France and England are all pushing for that all valuable 4th spot in the rankinings whereas we aren't even at the races man.....sorry but that's just not good enough. We desperately need a win to get our season back on track.

After getting battered and bullied by Wales on our home patch, some redemption is needed to restore national pride. It starts here .

Yeah Rory I know that. But we'd have to lose to Mongolia to drop out of the top 8 man. I pay no attention to them. Even when we were 3rd in that list going into the RWC 2007. Yeah. See what I mean?

Forget that list.

I am worried about Scotland next week. They always give us an awful time. That would be just like us. Bate de Frogs away for the 1st time since the Middle-Ages and lose to the improving Jocks in Dublin. Really, that would be us to a tee.

I hear another cold front is on the way. Apparently if the third match is cancelled, it´s down to a coin flip. My money would be on Ireland then.

Yeah but Gibson it didn't matter that we were 3rd in 2007 as the draw had already been done and we got a tough group.

The 2015 RWC draw will be done based on this seasons rankings thats why it is vital to win and get as high as possible.

It was one of the major reasons kidney was told that he wasn't allowed to experiment this year.

roddersm wrote:Yeah but Gibson it didn't matter that we were 3rd in 2007 as the draw had already been done and we got a tough group.

The 2015 RWC draw will be done based on this seasons rankings thats why it is vital to win and get as high as possible.

It was one of the major reasons kidney was told that he wasn't allowed to experiment this year.

If I was him I would resign. No backbone.

geoff998rugby wrote:Win in France and England and we are in with a chance of a top seed.

Worth fighting for

The Top 4 seeding would be nice. But, we dont like it up there. Goes against our very psyche.

But, beating England and France away, would do us a power of good. It would show the progress we have been waiting on, for far too long.

roddersm wrote:Yeah but Gibson it didn't matter that we were 3rd in 2007 as the draw had already been done and we got a tough group.

The 2015 RWC draw will be done based on this seasons rankings thats why it is vital to win and get as high as possible.

It was one of the major reasons kidney was told that he wasn't allowed to experiment this year.

Sorry. Say that again?

Kidney told NOT to experiment?



Oh man I just spilt me beer. Feic it anyway!


That was the best out-loud laugh I've had this season. Thanks man. I needed that.

That's like telling a cat not to dive into the sea.

I object to the notion that we all like it up there in the Top 4. How dare you sir. Shameful Gibson. Mods, cuff that man.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I hear another cold front is on the way. Apparently if the third match is cancelled, it´s down to a coin flip. My money would be on Ireland then.

Not so sure.

The ref would do the flip and ask Paul O'Connell to call it. Paul, too worked up to care, would just blurt out 'Heads'. We'd lose as there are no Heads on a Euro coin, just bridges and things. 'Sorry, Paul,' the ref would say, 'It's a bridge or something - France win'

Kiaka,
Its just we seem to love being the plucky Irish taking on the big boys. Even when we are good enough to beat them. Really pishes me off, but it does permeate all our sporting endeavours.

Make us favs and we crash. Like v Wales in the RWC. Like so many times before. Been watching the 5/6-N since 1972 and the RWC since it started. I can see patterns. And that's one of em.

It is the main reason we get nowhere. Its a huge mental self-limitation. I have been saying this for years to Irish jeers. But its true. We need to bury it. Beating France in Paris would take us over a huge mental block. After that, we need to follow it up with another performance. Something we never seem to achieve. High-level consistency is not in our sporting résumé.

But as always. I Believe.

Glad you're with me on this Gibbo

Ireland are going to win, come Sunday eve we will all be happy

France by 20+

Ireland to be exposed. Badly.

France by 20+

Are you having a laugh or are you being serious?

Ah now we need Triangulation at this stage. He's right. We are going to be man-shamed.

NOT.

Look, Im putting this out there. We are actuallly the best team in the NH. Everyone knows that. Except us. Ask the Aussies. Just need to prove it. Coach has not helped. Up till now.

Four Provincial wins and then the big one on Sunday. That's all I'll tolerate. Yes - greed is my middle name.

There has been a lingering unbalance in our coaching set up...something wasn't clicking. You can't always blame individual players when the consistent presence is the coaches. Something wasn't working with the coaches we had. We've lost one after the WC (yet to be replaced), we've lost another for the rest of the 6N (and gained one that comes with strong recommendations but has no track record at International).

If it was a coaching issue then certainly that aspect is being tested now. It's a good time for Ireland actually. We've needed a tough examination of the structures but couldn't very well examine them with contracts being already signed. Now we have something close to a mid-term half-chop of the coaching pool. We'll see where the next mystery tour takes us on Sunday.

I really cant see Ireland being done by 20+ points.

I think that the match will be high scoring though

first 6 nations game im on home soil for. nice fry, then afternoon pints up town. cant wait either way. none of the distractions of a stag do in the dam or a highland wedding which warped the mind for first two games : )

does anyone on here go regularly to 6 nations games any more? i have gone a few away games last 3/4 years and occasional home game. away trips have been great banter but the rugby has typically been the low point. they are so expensive.

True Fly. This is where Kidney needs to prove he is the Man. If not ... its really just a matter of time for him. Bad RWC and a dismal 6-N?

I dont think he is, but I believe the players, like the French with Mad Marc - can override that.
For now.

I get to the Italy v Ireland matches in Rome. I recommend them to anyone, great weekend away and the Italians are very welcoming of Irish fans

SecretFly wrote:

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I hear another cold front is on the way. Apparently if the third match is cancelled, it´s down to a coin flip. My money would be on Ireland then.

Not so sure.

The ref would do the flip and ask Paul O'Connell to call it. Paul, too worked up to care, would just blurt out 'Heads'. We'd lose as there are no Heads on a Euro coin, just bridges and things. 'Sorry, Paul,' the ref would say, 'It's a bridge or something - France win'

There's pessimistic and there's...