Mayweather - "I look at Cotto as an undefeated fighter"

First topic message reminder :

... and saying he wants Cotto at his best.

Said this at the press conference in New York, obviously referring to Margarito, who cheated, and Pac who used a catchweight.

Does he have a point?

And how much credit, if any does he get if he defeats Cotto well @ 154?

In which case, I will respectfully apologise and let the point lie.

You repeated said point - and it was quite a stupid point.

However - it appears we are in agreement, which hasn' happened in a week or 2.

Most people would, indeed, lose to a boxer with rocks in his fists.

Christ almighty...

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:I'm trying to highlight the idiocy of the statement az.

Surely you can see that saying "if 1 guy cheated, the other guy would have lost" adds nothing and is a relatively illogical and pointless thing to say.

Frankly - I'd back that Margarito to have beaten mayweather with his loaded gloves as well.

In fact - there are few fighters in history who would survive that assault.

You're confused. I suggest you take the issue up with compelling and rich who stated that regardless of the loaded gloves, any decent boxer would have beaten Marg.

still making things up i see az, i said any top class boxer could out box marg whether loaded gloves or not. and if cotto could have stuck with a gameplan ala there second match then he would have won. i do like the way you presume that marg had definately loaded gloves despite there being no evidence whatsoever

compelling and rich wrote:

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:I'm trying to highlight the idiocy of the statement az.

Surely you can see that saying "if 1 guy cheated, the other guy would have lost" adds nothing and is a relatively illogical and pointless thing to say.

Frankly - I'd back that Margarito to have beaten mayweather with his loaded gloves as well.

In fact - there are few fighters in history who would survive that assault.

You're confused. I suggest you take the issue up with compelling and rich who stated that regardless of the loaded gloves, any decent boxer would have beaten Marg.

still making things up i see az, i said any top class boxer could out box marg whether loaded gloves or not. and if cotto could have stuck with a gameplan ala there second match then he would have won. i do like the way you presume that marg had definately loaded gloves despite there being no evidence whatsoever

WHat am I making up? Marg is a top class fighter. He did beat Martinez and was world ranked top 5 at WW. He was no slouch. With loaded gloves (the type he tried to use against SSM) he would become an even bigger threat and far more dangerous. The punches with pl;aster of paris type mix is like being hit with bricks and I dare say would have a much bigger effect that non loaded gloves. Who is to say that he didn't beat Cotto with loaded gloves. I suspect he did and if so, its no wonder Cotto folded after 6 rounds.

Getting hit with bricks is more effective in KOing your opponent that with regular wraps. I'd imagine it would be anyway.

oxring wrote:In which case, I will respectfully apologise and let the point lie.

You repeated said point - and it was quite a stupid point.

However - it appears we are in agreement, which hasn' happened in a week or 2.

Most people would, indeed, lose to a boxer with rocks in his fists.

I've opened another bottle of JD

azania wrote:

compelling and rich wrote:

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:I'm trying to highlight the idiocy of the statement az.

Surely you can see that saying "if 1 guy cheated, the other guy would have lost" adds nothing and is a relatively illogical and pointless thing to say.

Frankly - I'd back that Margarito to have beaten mayweather with his loaded gloves as well.

In fact - there are few fighters in history who would survive that assault.

You're confused. I suggest you take the issue up with compelling and rich who stated that regardless of the loaded gloves, any decent boxer would have beaten Marg.

still making things up i see az, i said any top class boxer could out box marg whether loaded gloves or not. and if cotto could have stuck with a gameplan ala there second match then he would have won. i do like the way you presume that marg had definately loaded gloves despite there being no evidence whatsoever

WHat am I making up? Marg is a top class fighter. He did beat Martinez and was world ranked top 5 at WW. He was no slouch. With loaded gloves (the type he tried to use against SSM) he would become an even bigger threat and far more dangerous. The punches with pl;aster of paris type mix is like being hit with bricks and I dare say would have a much bigger effect that non loaded gloves. Who is to say that he didn't beat Cotto with loaded gloves. I suspect he did and if so, its no wonder Cotto folded after 6 rounds.

Getting hit with bricks is more effective in KOing your opponent that with regular wraps. I'd imagine it would be anyway.

you said i was going round saying fighters could beat marg and that loaded gloves didnt make a difference when i was purely saying that he could be out boxed (not beat get that through your head)

find we the point where i disagreed with any of those points, of course he would have had a better chance with loaded gloves. pretty obvious!! yet as effective as marg was he wasnt really a great boxer hence my point that he could be outboxed if a fighter stuck to a good enough gameplan something cotto showed he wasnt good enough at against both marg and clottey. cotto didnt fold just because the damaged caused against marg, he stopped fighting the same as the first 6 rounds and got sucked into a war. do we presume clottey was loaded because their fight took a similar pattern??

You said any top class boxer (WW I presume) would beat Marg even if he had loaded gloves. I completely disagree with that. He doesn't have to hit the head or body to be very effective. Hitting the shoulders would also be a sensible tactic. That will make throwing punches a task in itself.

The simple thing is that you are totally wrong.

Why do you think Cotto stopped fighting the same fight after 6? Do you think he got all macho and decided to trade with Marg or do you think the punches he tood were starting to take their toll?

Out box, I said out box!!!

Presumably the same reasons as the clottey fight

compelling and rich wrote:Out box, I said out box!!!

Presumably the same reasons as the clottey fight

I know you said out box. I maintain it wont happen. Boxers are human and being constantly being hit with bricks will have an effect sooner rather than later.

Lot of debate on the first question, what about the second.

How much credit does Floyd get for a win?

jay-z wrote:Lot of debate on the first question, what about the second.

How much credit does Floyd get for a win?

not much imo, as i have already pointed out he was extremly poor against marg (hand wraps or not) clottey and got a pasting by pacman. with his only wins in between being jennings, foreman, mayorga and marg 2. hardly a great list there. the first marg fight found cotto out, he was to used to bullying his oppenents and the likes of clottey and marg didnt let him. pacman showed even further that he isnt that great. think cotto has declined since his first lost

compelling and rich... fair enough, what about Alvarez? at his recent press conference he said he would like him to get some experience then it could happen.

cotto v alvarez or mayweather v alvarez?

Mayweather-Alvarez.

well alvarez is a big young strong undefeated fighter, been a while since mayweather fought anyone like that. at a guess would say hatton was the last undefeated fighter he fought? and before that i wouldnt have a clue. but would still expect mayweather to come through him, style wise would say alvarez is made for mayweather and is still very young. despite alvarezs high number of fights he still lacks experience at the highest level and mayweather would be too soon.

if mayweather gives him a couple of years and alvarez continues to improve i could see a highly competitive fight, would be suprised if alvarez is still around the same weight as mayweather by then though. but it would be a fight id pay to see, really like alvarez, but then again ive always liked come forward mexicans!