Ireland Team v Scotland Announced

First topic message reminder :

IRELAND Team & Replacements (v Scotland, 2012 RBS 6 Nations Championship, Aviva Stadium, Saturday, March 10, kick-off 5pm):

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) (capt)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
6 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:
16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
18 - Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/Connacht)
19 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
20 - Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin/Munster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)

Sin é wrote:ha, so shane williams was able to run over people like George North did

A waste for him having a step.

When North gets the number of tries Shane scored, then I'll debate those two in the one sentence

From a Scottish point of view the only part of that team I'm really worried about is the back 3 and back row. Don't think many people would argue that Scotland at least have parity in the other areas.

Will be a real hum dinger this!

My hopes are to destroy your lineout and carry on in the attacking vein we've recently shown but with a tighter defence.

This is Scotland though so no doubt we'll put in another glorious performance and lose!

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:ha, so shane williams was able to run over people like George North did

A waste for him having a step.

When North gets the number of tries Shane scored, then I'll debate those two in the one sentence

Next season then .

roddersm wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:ha, so shane williams was able to run over people like George North did

A waste for him having a step.

When North gets the number of tries Shane scored, then I'll debate those two in the one sentence

Next season then .

Oh my!!!!!!! I must book my tickets for those games!!!! 5 games, 50 tries by North.

I am increasingly disappointed by this selection.

There have been 18 players started for Ireland in this Six Nations. They can be divided into two groups.

Starters No Matter What
Cian Healy, Rory Best, Mike Ross, Donncha O'Callaghan, Paul O'Connell, Stephen Ferris, Sean O'Brien, Jamie Heaslip, Conor Murray, Johnny Sexton, Keith Earls, Gordon D'Arcy, Tommy Bowe, Rob Kearney

Only Started Because of Injury
Donnacha Ryan, Eoin Reddan, Andrew Trimble, Fergus McFadden

Declan Kidney has talked a lot about building a squad, but at this point his balls are really on the line and he is doing exactly what his predecessor Eddie O'Sullivan did in the same situation; relying only on a small group of guaranteed starters and refusing to rotate despite a bruising schedule.

It now seems inevitable he will put as close to the same team out again next week, the fourth game in four weeks, and squad rotation be damned.

I think the biggest disappointment as we approach the end of the Kidney era is that he started out by talking of building a squad but is now showing he doesn't trust players outside his chosen first XV to step in and perform.

I just hope we use the bench early in the second half tbh. I think Court, O'Mahony and ROG at least have a lot to offer coming off the bench.

He should have let some youngsters in to see what they have to offer. For me I'd have liked that to be more backs orientated. We know what Bowe, Trimble and D'arcy can do. As you say, let's see do we have a squad where there is at least another if not two alternatives to the mainstay player in each position. Kidney is at least beginning to toy with the forwards but the backs remain basically the same players moving around and shifting positions - O'Gara on, D'arcy off, Sexton to 12. Lame squad building effort.

The team is the strongest team he could put out which is what it should be. The only question marks would be around Darcy and the backrow combination.

Not sure what people expect he should do in terms of other players. McFadden is ok but hasnt exactly been setting the world alight and Darcy is the incumbent in Leinster at IC. Earls is our best player for OC and is a lot better than Mcfadden as has been evidenced the last two games. The only other player who might have been something to look at is Zebo.

Do people really expect that we should put out a weaker team just to have a look at people and lose in the process...

newbie wrote:The team is the strongest team he could put out which is what it should be. The only question marks would be around Darcy and the backrow combination.

Not sure what people expect he should do in terms of other players. McFadden is ok but hasnt exactly been setting the world alight and Darcy is the incumbent in Leinster at IC. Earls is our best player for OC and is a lot better than Mcfadden as has been evidenced the last two games. The only other player who might have been something to look at is Zebo.

Do people really expect that we should put out a weaker team just to have a look at people and lose in the process...

When else do we have a look at players in contention for international call ups. I think now is an ideal time to have a look and plan for the future.

newbie wrote:The team is the strongest team he could put out which is what it should be. The only question marks would be around Darcy and the backrow combination.

Not sure what people expect he should do in terms of other players. McFadden is ok but hasnt exactly been setting the world alight and Darcy is the incumbent in Leinster at IC. Earls is our best player for OC and is a lot better than Mcfadden as has been evidenced the last two games. The only other player who might have been something to look at is Zebo.

Do people really expect that we should put out a weaker team just to have a look at people and lose in the process...

You dont think putting out a massively unbalanced 2nd row is a cause for concern. Given that we have younger options, playing better (or just playing full stop) at provincial level i think 2nd row is a massive area of debate.

With regards to players in contention for international caps....why play players who are currently second best to the existing players. The argument in the past was he didnt pick on form, now he is (mostly) but that isnt good enough. Plus what message do you give to the players by chopping and changing. Isnt that what the HC is supposed to be about and it cheapens the caps. What use is having a number of new players and we get beaten?

Regarding the second row. He is playing the best two players we have. Not sure who is playing better...you mentioned Tuohy but I dont think he is a better option than Ryan and DOC. DOC has been playing well and Ryan is the next best option. Plus DOC is well used to running a lineout. The worry there would be Best after last weekend.

newbie wrote:The team is the strongest team he could put out which is what it should be. The only question marks would be around Darcy and the backrow combination.

Not sure what people expect he should do in terms of other players. McFadden is ok but hasnt exactly been setting the world alight and Darcy is the incumbent in Leinster at IC. Earls is our best player for OC and is a lot better than Mcfadden as has been evidenced the last two games. The only other player who might have been something to look at is Zebo.

Do people really expect that we should put out a weaker team just to have a look at people and lose in the process...

You say it's the strongest team but you can't rightly guarantee it. It's the strongest in name because it's the one that keeps getting the call to go out and do its duty.

A touch of experimentation before some seriously tough competition in the Summer (everyone is forgetting that again! - keep thinking about it) is not a white flag, guaranteed loss deal - it is done with the express wish to see what alternatives can do. You only put them in with the idea that they might show something new and perhaps be part of a side that wins easier than we've been doing of late. The experiments are done to exceed expectation, not to casually sink beneath it without care.

newbie wrote:With regards to players in contention for international caps....why play players who are currently second best to the existing players.

All Welsh players when rating league performances are second best to the existing Irish players. And we see how little they care about that when wearing the red for Wales.

No, I expect we should put out a weaker team- but one that is still good enough to win this game- to rest some players and then go back to our strongest team in Twickenham. I think our performance next week may be inhibited by knocks and fatigue.

I would say this team could be as good as the current side;

Court, Best (c), Ross
DOC, Ryan
O'Brien, Heaslip, O'Mahony
Reddan, ROG
McFadden, Earls
Trimble, Kearney, Bowe

Ferris, Healy and Sexton to all come off the bench and then we're in a better place regarding the final game fitness wise with our bench for that game also more battle hardened. I think that Kidney is underestimating his reserves and it could end up costing us.

He's viewing each game individually, I get that, but ultimately there are diminishing returns if you don't freshen up the side here and there.

Notch..i don't disagree with your selection and would be happy with it. But am happy with the current selection as well.

WRT the other post. Teams are always about the sum of their parts and Wales have a bunch of individuals that are as a whole a slightly better team at the moment.

newbie wrote:Notch..i don't disagree with your selection and would be happy with it. But am happy with the current selection as well.

WRT the other post. Teams are always about the sum of their parts and Wales have a bunch of individuals that are as a whole a slightly better team at the moment.

It took international duty to prove it - that's my point.

Nobody can say how a rookie would perform at international level until they are given the chance. The side playing this weekend, or even the one playing last week (the two injured players) will not have enough to beat New Zealand as constituted or by using the gameplan they use. So we're already on an uphill journey. Change will be inevitable...will we be trying out new players in New Zealand itself? Some baptism of fire that will be for some if we do!

SecretFly wrote:

newbie wrote:Notch..i don't disagree with your selection and would be happy with it. But am happy with the current selection as well.

WRT the other post. Teams are always about the sum of their parts and Wales have a bunch of individuals that are as a whole a slightly better team at the moment.

It took international duty to prove it - that's my point.

Nobody can say how a rookie would perform at international level until they are given the chance. The side playing this weekend, or even the one playing last week (the two injured players) will not have enough to beat New Zealand as constituted or by using the gameplan they use. So we're already on an uphill journey. Change will be inevitable...will we be trying out new players in New Zealand itself? Some baptism of fire that will be for some if we do!

+1
Now is the best time to give the youngsters a chance, this comp is over for us now. I for one do not want players to start their test career in a 3 test series against New Zealand.

newbie wrote: The argument in the past was he didnt pick on form, now he is (mostly) but that isnt good enough.

He has only picked Ryan because of injury when he was clearly in better form than DoC ,and Paddy Wallace is playing better than D'Arcy as he has been for the last 2 or 3 years.

The real problem we all have with him though is the conservative game plan he continues to promote,garryowens are our main weapon of attack and while it's a useful tool to have there is nothing else to back it up.Our criticisms of Kidney come from years of consistent failure they aren't just based on this one selection.

The IRB changed the laws of the game in 2010 to stop teams playing the way Ireland are now... to make it very difficult to win games without the ball and using a defensive and conservative strategy.... to make it easier to generate quick ball and get across the gainline and to reward keeping the ball in hand.

Declan Kidney and Gert Smal don't seem to have noticed.

roddersm wrote:The IRB changed the laws of the game in 2010 to stop teams playing the way Ireland are now... to make it very difficult to win games without the ball and using a defensive and conservative strategy.... to make it easier to generate quick ball and get across the gainline and to reward keeping the ball in hand.

Declan Kidney and Gert Smal don't seem to have noticed.

Got that right, Rodders. Only little credit I'll give to Kidney and Smal on that one is that Ireland are about the only side who can fly in the face of rules meant to kill off their methods and still be there or thereabouts in the reckoning. We still have a matematical chance of coming in 2nd...after the season we've had, playing the way we play, I find that amazing. Nine tries (highest so far) from negative play and no dedicated backs coach is a powerful statement about what this side could do if the emphasis was shifted to attack.

But just to go back on an intelligent man, Kidney. I just wonder when he sits down on a free weekend and watches Leinster do it's thing (when all players are available), and watches Munster do it's thing (when they have all players fit), and Ulster do it's thing (when they are fully furnished with their best players).......................... can he not see the potential? Does it not whet his appetite to think that he can call on players who can play ruthlessly and dream about combining those players and creating something special; something not designed just to take on our neighbours in Europe but to plant some serious intention down south too?

I don't understand how he sees what he sees and still comes to the conclusion that his cautious, defensive game is all that we can play and the only brand that will keep us afloat.

I do not think we should go all experimental but measured change makes sense.

We would losing nothing by droping DOC and D'Arcy and it would at least be a tentative step to the future.

but donners and darcy own the jerseys : (

i honestly think by replacing them with younger better more in form players will strengthen us.

There is a perception amongst some that it is a big risk dropping them in such a big tournament.

we are the only test nation who would pick somebody non stop for a 12 month period when they been under par for 90% of the games.

If anyone still cares, Sean O'Brien is ruled out through injury. O'Mahoney replaces him with Jennings on the bench.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/25843.php

I care MMC and I'm Flip ragin' that Chris Henry has been overlooked for the bench place after being taken to Paris last weekend as excess baggage.

Big chance for POM now, glad O'Brien isn't seriously goosed though.

So why was Henry taken to Paris but not Jennings - what has changed.

If I was Henry or Tuohy sticking 2 fingers up at a certain individual would be very tempting

Rava wrote:I care MMC and I'm Flip ragin' that Chris Henry has been overlooked for the bench place after being taken to Paris last weekend as excess baggage.

Seems a bit odd that Jennings wasn’t in the squad last week and is now on the bench alright.

Has Kidney made a change that wasn't due to injury yet??

EOS v2

Henry went to Paris because he probably wouldnt play here Jennings will play better to mess with Ulsters matchday squads than Leinsters

Rava wrote:I care MMC and I'm Flip ragin' that Chris Henry has been overlooked for the bench place after being taken to Paris last weekend as excess baggage.

Jeebus are you serious! Is this Kidney guy for real or what!!!

Ya it's shameful that Henry is overlooked. Especially when he's been the best performing Irish 7 this season!

I'm getting very disillusioned with all things Ireland at the moment. I've gone from being a staunch Kidney supporter to someone who thinks that it's high time to get a new coach with fresh ideas.

What I really don't get is how guys can look like such good players in red, blue and white yet look totally disinterested when they don the green jersey (a handful of players aside).

So frustrating.

Mickado wrote:Big chance for POM now, glad O'Brien isn't seriously goosed though.

Mick, sorry to see SOB injured but POM should have been starting this week in any case. Hope he takes his chance. Agree with your other comment that hopefully SOB is fit for Twickenham.

Rava wrote:I care MMC and I'm Flip ragin' that Chris Henry has been overlooked for the bench place after being taken to Paris last weekend as excess baggage.

I think Kidney has been changing the travelling subs (as its not an easy role to carry).

Jennings may have been the designated travelling sub this time.

Good chance Henry is on holidays as well. People were complaining about tomas O'Leary making the bench before Boss not realising that Boss is in NZ.

Henry is injured, he is receiving treatment on an achillies injury, Michael Corocran just tweeted me about it

the-goon wrote:Has Kidney made a change that wasn't due to injury yet??

EOS v2

You want him to make a change for the sake of making it

A skin infection - such a Leinster excuse for not playing a match <run>

Jennings shouldnt be anywhere near the squad ahead of Henry

So basically Henry is considered to be in front of jennings in the pecking order right up until he might be forced to use him. Then we bring in the 30 something. Looking at the age profile of our bench is yet another failing on kidneys part.

Maybe an injury we dont know about?

As i said it deffo is an achillies injury which rules him out, he is currently receiving treatment.

BelfastDickVet wrote:As i said it deffo is an achillies injury which rules him out, he is currently receiving treatment.

I'm not letting the small matter of an Achilles injury get in the way of my argument.

Makes more sense now then. Glad to see POM getting a start. I look forward to him being a bloody nuisance at ruck time. Could free up Ferris

What is the point in putting Jennings in! We know he's not good enough for international level and he won't be round for 2015 so what is the bloody point!

Sorry you all had to read that! I'm ok again now!

Corcoran said he saw him sitting out of training 2 days ago, said he didnt look very happy. its a true shame as i reckon henry could really have starred off the bench this weekend.

bluemuff - sob will make the short journey from the farm in tullow to pay you a visit. how dare you doubt seanys toughness.

you better have dan the man, john mullane and ken mc grath standing guard outside your house armed with hurls.

sin e - a change for changes sake. hm. id still rather that than doing the same thing every week when it is not working. lads will be bollixed by twickers

Rava wrote:

BelfastDickVet wrote:As i said it deffo is an achillies injury which rules him out, he is currently receiving treatment.

I'm not letting the small matter of an Achilles injury get in the way of my argument.

Besides the rules are that if a Leinsterman gets injured he must be replaced in the starting line up by a Munsterman, who's place must then be filled by an Ulsterman. If said Ulsterman is injured the his replacement MUST be another Ulsterman!

Kidney is breaking his own rules! It should have been Willie Faloon!.....

Irelands side pretty much picks itself to be honest so its always going to go down to injuries to force a change.

i have seen very little evidence over the last 18months that would lead me to believe it should picks itself. It is wrong that a team who are stagnating/going backward is so set in stone.

the whole set up needs a giant kick up the arse. complacency is rife

Ok dave, there may be a few places up for grabs, i will give you that but the majority of the side picks itself i feel.

i would say on merit (or due to plane lack of options) jerseys 1,2,3,5,6,14,15 pick themselves.

thats my slant on things

7,8,10 and 9 pick themselves as well i would feel. Murray was the form player for 9 and Sexton owns the 10.

dublin_dave wrote:i would say on merit (or due to plane lack of options) jerseys 1,2,3,5,6,14,15 pick themselves.

thats my slant on things

I would throw 10 in there too dave. I don't think there's much option but to start Sexton. ROG is coming to the end and Madigan isn't quite there yet.

8's another position with not much option, which is fortunate for Heaslip who's been below par for a long time now.

I'd like to see SOB at 8 and O'Mahoney or Henry at 7 to see how that works.