Regional rugby discontent: Shocking extent revealed with new research.

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http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/swansea-ospreys/2012/03/08/regional-rugby-discontent-shocking-extent-revealed-with-new-research-91466-30484675/

THE apparent extent of discontent with regional rugby among fans in parts of Wales is revealed today in new research.

The data – in the form of a rare survey of more than 1,000 rugby fans – shows a large majority of supporters in the South Wales Valleys (82.7%) ‘do not identify with’ any of Wales’ four regional rugby sides and “feel alienated” from the professional tier.

But even among those who identify themselves as supporters of existing regions, just half (51%) said they are satisfied with regional rugby.

Of those who said they were dissatisfied, the quality of the rugby played, the ‘dilution’ of traditional club loyalties, the disconnection from communities and the ‘soul-less’ nature of modern stadia are cited as prime causes of their discontent.

The research, carried out on behalf of Pontypridd MP Owen Smith, also found:

83% of Valleys-based fans said they would go and watch a professional rugby side based there;
Only 17% of regional rugby fans quizzed believe the Welsh game is more ‘enjoyable’ since the advent of the regional system; and,
Almost half of existing regional rugby followers surveyed believe a development region should represent the South Wales Valleys, though 36% opposed the idea.

However, the WRU said the research “does not address the fundamental issue of how any new regional entity would be funded and operated” and that it was still “awaiting delivery of a business plan for [Mr Smith’s] proposals which he informed the union he would be presenting almost one year ago”.

Mr Smith said the current set-up was “both unloved and unsustainable” and called on the WRU to look at overhauling the face of the game in Wales.

Welcoming WRU chief executive Roger Lewis’ statement on the weekend that “we are at a fundamental crossroads in the history of Welsh rugby” and that the game’s leaders had to “come up with something that’s far more radical and is far more sustainable that will take our game forward”, Mr Smith said: “In considering change, they must ask themselves why the current structures are failing – why the business model on which regional rugby was based has been shown to be bust.

“Anecdotally, the answers seem obvious, if varied. Firstly, the system was never truly ‘regional’ and the new clubs failed, therefore, to properly embrace the fans and the loyalty of their ‘feeder’ clubs.

“Secondly, and consequently, the revenue streams anticipated from success, increased attendances and attendant merchandising have not been realised.

“Thirdly, the ‘market’ in players that has been created by the professionalization of the game in France, England, Ireland and the Tri-Nation countries has led to spiralling wage bills – the biggest element of clubs’ costs.

“Fourth, the business planning for both the Union and the regions has appeared to be weak – assuming success, undermined by property development in a time of economic uncertainty and underpinned by personal, unsustainable subvention by benefactors whose patience is now running thin.

“However, it’s not enough to guess at why things have gone wrong, and then to propose ‘radical’ change from on high. That’s precisely the mistake the Union made when it came up with this structure a decade ago, and the reason that the hopelessly optimistic ‘if we build it, they will come’ attitude took a hold in the first place.

“The Union must ask the fans what they want – not just impose solutions from above. That way they might construct a framework for the game that can be sustainable, properly rooted in the rugby communities of Wales, and bought into by the fans whose emotional and financial support is the key to its future.”

Mr Smith said the Valleys had been “largely forgotten” when the regional system was introduced in 2003, and said the research – carried out by Arad(corr) – showed what followers of the game felt.

“The fans’ views dispel any notion that the answer to our problems is merely to boil down the number of professional players to still fewer numbers and to exert greater control over their wage demands through contracting them directly to the Union,” he said.

Don't know if it has been mentioned but when The Warriors went bust Pontypridd were £700,000 in debt and negelected to tell the board of the Warriors. How can a club that is supposed to have the best fans in Wales and pack out Sardis Road every week run up a debt of £700k. This was taken from the Guardian Newspaper at the time......................... "The famous Pontypridd Rugby Club today (Thu 26 Sep) went into administration, citing debts approaching £700,000.
The 117-year-old club revealed the full extent of their crippling financial position on Monday following a crisis meeting of shareholders.
Pontypridd, who form half of the Celtic Warriors region, owe £675,000 to several creditors, including the Welsh Rugby Union and Inland Revenue,
Leighton Samuel, the millionaire benefactor for regional partners Bridgend, was refused permission by the WRU to clear the debt in return for full control of the Warriors.
Samuel's latest plan is to buy Pontypridd's share in the Warriors and gift it to the WRU, meaning the regional side would be owned on a 50-50 basis by Bridgend and Welsh rugby's governing body.

If Pontypridd have their way and get a region I ask again who will fund it????

Pyleboy65 wrote:
If Pontypridd have their way and get a region I ask again who will fund it????

Tom Jones?

Cardiff Dave wrote:Tom Jones?

Not likely he lives in Llantwit Major, though I think he also has a place on the A48 near Bonvilston, towards Culver House Cross.

AlynDavies wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:Tom Jones?

Not likely he lives in Llantwit Major, though I think he also has a place on the A48 near Bonvilston, towards Culver House Cross.

Tom Jones prefers Ely to Ponty shocker!

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

AlynDavies wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:Tom Jones?

Not likely he lives in Llantwit Major, though I think he also has a place on the A48 near Bonvilston, towards Culver House Cross.

Tom Jones prefers Ely to Ponty shocker!

Other side of the round about culverhouse cross roundabout, not to be confused with the magic roundabout, buy the park opposite Lidls... late in the evening!

AlynDavies wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:Tom Jones?

Not likely he lives in Llantwit Major, though I think he also has a place on the A48 near Bonvilston, towards Culver House Cross.

I was told back in 2003/4-ish, by somebody intimately involved with Ponty, face to face, that Tom Jones was approached or was considered as an answer to the club's woes. He wasn't interested obviously and yes, he has a place in the Vale. I used to work with one of Tom's mates by the way.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

AlynDavies wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:Tom Jones?

Not likely he lives in Llantwit Major, though I think he also has a place on the A48 near Bonvilston, towards Culver House Cross.

Tom Jones prefers Ely to Ponty shocker!

Geography not a strongpoint eh Smirnhoff coz you're miles out?
No worries mate. I blame New Labour.

It was more an off the cuff comment meant to be funny as Ely is the other side of Culver and if I'd said Bonvilston (where I admit I don't know where it is) or Wenvoe it wouldn't have had quite the same effect.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Dave you asked for evidence earlier and I was just giving you the evidence that I personally was aware of.

I was replying to Smirnhoff who suggested Cardiff Blues haven't "reached out".
The thing is they have and are still doing so. You only have to browse their website to realise this.
I know of Cardiff Blues fans from Merthyr, Aberdare and Porth, so having supporters from outside the city is not a new thing.

I didn't say Cardiff Blues hadn't done activities in their region, I've commended them for it on other posts - they've held training camps in the Valleys, given free tickets to schools from Barry to RCT and other things and of course Cardiff Blues just like Cardiff FC have fans in the valleys - but saying here's Cardiff's region (or superclub as some fans like to call it) come and support Cardiff is a lot different from doing a lot of ground work, reaching out and making a regional team for the whole region and saying 'this is your team, come and support it together and come and be part of the heritage and history of this region'.

That's the point I was getting at - Cardiff Blues have asked for support from the valleys in much the same way Cardiff RFC (and FC) have done but have done nothing to include the fans/communities from Barry all the way up to Merthyr in the regional team.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

I didn't say Cardiff Blues hadn't done activities in their region, I've commended them for it on other posts - they've held training camps in the Valleys, given free tickets to schools from Barry to RCT and other things and of course Cardiff Blues just like Cardiff FC have fans in the valleys - but saying here's Cardiff's region (or superclub as some fans like to call it) come and support Cardiff is a lot different from doing a lot of ground work, reaching out and making a regional team for the whole region and saying 'this is your team, come and support it together and come and be part of the heritage and history of this region'.

That's the point I was getting at - Cardiff Blues have asked for support from the valleys in much the same way Cardiff RFC (and FC) have done but have done nothing to include the fans/communities from Barry all the way up to Merthyr in the regional team.

Cardiff Blues can ponce about as much as they like, including the pink rubbush, trying to include here, there and everywhere because the WRU says they should, but the fact is they would be better off being just Cardiff; a rugby club at the mouth of the river Taff.

I think people are a bit unfair with Cardiff, because they were granted stand alone status, and Pontypridd were basically shoved on them, they didn't ask for them. Yet despite this Cardiff have made the effort to build bridges with Pontypridd, for the most part the club have been have been receptive. The problem is an element of Pontypridd supporters have chose to drop a turd in the hand Cardiff offered.

"The research, carried out on behalf of Pontypridd MP Owen Smith ...."

Take that with a large dose of salt then. The man has a clear agenda and has been active in the press already. His views are well known. Don't get me wrong, I'm not about to rubbish anyone's point of view, but the views found are not exactly shocking if the survey was "done on behalf of Owen Smith."

Did i mention cynicism?

AlynDavies wrote:I think people are a bit unfair with Cardiff, because they were granted stand alone status, and Pontypridd were basically shoved on them, they didn't ask for them. Yet despite this Cardiff have made the effort to build bridges with Pontypridd, for the most part the club have been have been receptive. The problem is an element of Pontypridd supporters have chose to drop a turd in the hand Cardiff offered.

Very true and the basic, fundamental, bottomline, end of the day fact is that Pontypridd and Cardiff (Blues) are totally seperate rugby clubs. Always have been and still are. The transparent veil of regionalism attempted to pretend otherwise, but all it achieved was narking both sets of supporters. The WRU telling Ponty fans, after the demise of the Warriors, that Cardiff Blues was now THEIR pro team was worse than showing a red rag to an already enraged bull.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

I didn't say Cardiff Blues hadn't done activities in their region, I've commended them for it on other posts - they've held training camps in the Valleys, given free tickets to schools from Barry to RCT and other things and of course Cardiff Blues just like Cardiff FC have fans in the valleys - but saying here's Cardiff's region (or superclub as some fans like to call it) come and support Cardiff is a lot different from doing a lot of ground work, reaching out and making a regional team for the whole region and saying 'this is your team, come and support it together and come and be part of the heritage and history of this region'.

That's the point I was getting at - Cardiff Blues have asked for support from the valleys in much the same way Cardiff RFC (and FC) have done but have done nothing to include the fans/communities from Barry all the way up to Merthyr in the regional team.

Cardiff Blues can ponce about as much as they like, including the pink rubbush, trying to include here, there and everywhere because the WRU says they should, but the fact is they would be better off being just Cardiff; a rugby club at the mouth of the river Taff.

Which is basically what they have done and now people are moaning about poor attendances, disillusionment among fans and falling attendance numbers. So this is how you think the club should continue?

I mentioned what the Blues had/hadn't done in the valleys because you asked for proof of what they hadn't done in the valleys - my point was the attitude - They haven't emcompassed their whole region (not specifically Ponty, I'm talking about everywhere from Barry/Penarth all the way to Merthyr - they've already lost Bridgend) - but they have said come and watch our Cardiff club (not your region).

They have ignored a huge new market and are continuing with generally aging old Cardiff RFC fans - and lets face it, ALL of the clubs were in dire straights before regionalisation and wouldn't have survived.

I found this in an old newspaper article I just read. Maybe the regions should look at this:-

"The RDS has been hugely positive for Leinster. One of the most attractive venues on the European circuit, Leinster put together an impressive package on match nights with pre-match, family-based entertainment and an emphasis on occasion -- creating an atmosphere that supporters have responded to enthusiastically."
Blues go back to Arms Park and make an effort to please fans rather than just telling the fans to enjoy themselves.

"With a capacity of just over 18,000, the province manages to regularly draw crowds upwards of 16,000 to the Ballsbridge venue -- no mean achievement considering the rather dubious draw of the Magners League in some quarters -- and Leinster have established themselves as the best-supported team in the Celtic competition."
Play in the Arms Park but for derbies and Hcup move it over to the CCS.

From a position where there were between 1,500 and 2,000 season ticket holders four seasons ago, Leinster's success has seen them progress to the point where 7,500 have already signed up for next season with thousands more expected"
It can be done.

"Perhaps most encouragingly, given Leinster's determination to bring the game to all corners of the province, Elverys sports shop in Carlow town sold out of Leinster jerseys in the build-up to the semi-final against Munster."
This one speaks for itself.

As an outsider to Wales I can a lot of problems but also a lot of answers. I've been almost three years and nothing has changed just got worse.

And to raise a point, I had no idea, until now, that Merthyr was in the Blues region.

Good post Jaymaster - obviously the province-idea was already there within Ireland apparently, and you can say definately not in Wales - but the Scarlets and Dragons seem to have found success in making and event out of the game, the Scarlets in much the same way it sounds as Leinster have (but obviously not yet as successful) and the Dragons in promoting a traditional rugby environment with a very good rugby club bar next to the ground.

However I like you're last quote of

JayMaster3000 wrote:And to raise a point, I had no idea, until now, that Merthyr was in the Blues region.

JayMaster3000

I think that says it all - but then some Blues fans will tell you that Methyr isn't in their region and that the Blues region is just Cardiff and nothing else and if anyone from outside of Cardiff wants to support the Blues then they also have to embrace the Cardiff ethos.

rugbydreamer wrote:another non story.

and seriously, it's only a 1,000 people questioned, that's not exactly a large pool of people to draw serious conclusion from.

And the fact that people don't like the new stadiums? That was already well known.

I'm with the WRU on this, if the people in the valleys are so dissatisfied, where is their business plan for the development of a region there?

Am honestly getting bored by all the rubbish articles the Welsh press are churning out now

Thats easey for you to say rugbydreamer, you have a region to support, I was fully behind the Warriors when they werre first regionalised, I was taking my young daughter to the games in Ponty, and was even willing to travel to Bridgend to watch them, I remember going to Wasps to see them win and was looking forward to a sucsessful era for valley's rugby, then the WRU decided to rip the heart out of us, I now realise though that firstly if anywhere should have a region then it should be North Wales, I still support regional rugby, i just think at the moment it is a joke, and something needs to change.

the WRU didn't decide to do any such thing Dowlais I'm sorry, the Warriors were financially caput due to the leighton samuel debarcle and the lack of support (although I appreciate there were a deal of fans that did go), and the WRU didn't have the money to bail them out.

I'm glad you think North Wales deserve a region more than anywhere else in Wales, I am just getting really fed up now with a lot of people from the valley's (led by that idiotic MP) complaining about the regions, but offering absolutely NOTHING in the way of a plan as to how a region could be sustainable there.

Instead all they do is bad mouth the regions, creating a whole wealth of negativity and offering absolutely nothing in return.

Regional rugby is not stable at the moment, but having a whole batch of people doing their best to run it down, just out of spite now it appears, I find it hard to take really.

yes it's horrible the valleys don't have a region, but I honest to God's can't see how one would be sustainable there.

And apologies for that, turned into a bit of a rant at the end!

Nah rugbydreamer, you are wrong on this one, I remember Leighton Samuels going to the WRU with a plan to clear the debt of Ponty and give half of the Warriors to the WRU and they then said NO!!! , even though they had not to long ago before regionalism save Neath RFC from going bankrupt and Llanelli RFC, then afterwards they even bailed out the Scarlets, I strongly believe that if the Warriors were allowed to continue they would now be the most sucsessful region, everybody goes on about our attendances but at the time we had the best average attendance of all the regions.

I'm sure that's not right about the average attendances. I can't see the Warriors having had more people attend than the Scarlets.

And maybe I was wrong about Samuels, but it must have stood to reason that the WRU didn't think 5 regions at the time was financially viable for them to help support. Seeing as we aren't all in a rosy situation now, then I can only think they had a point.

Also just add, the WRU never wanted 5 regions in the first place, they alway's only wanted 4 and I remember them pandering to Llanelli and gave them regional status,I also remember speaking to Mr David Moffet at a charity bash in the Vale of Glamorgan and when I asked about the regions he predicted the Llanelli Scarlets not to survive and Gareth Jenkings actually agreed with him, then guess what, the WRU had to bail them out because they scrapped the Warriors and did not want to loose another region.

Lord - to be honest the WRU did seem appear to be looking to cull a side from the get go. I believe the Blues were in a bit of money issues (and finished bottom region) and were asked if they would merge with the Warriors. Also I would agree with you that if the 5 regions were given three or four seasons before the WRU axed one that most likely the Warriors would have been the strongest of the regions, after all look at how the Ospreys and Blues improved when the Warriors players were passed along to them. That said I do honestly believe that the Scarlets region was needed, as there are a lot of rugby fans further west of Carmarthen who do travel to games, and folk tend to forget that they have a fair old journey (120 mile round trip for me) to attend their local region. Ex-Warriors fans have less of a journey to see either the Blues or the Ospreys.

To be honest its all that muppet David Moffet's fault, he didn't understand the Welsh tribalistic roots at all and seemingly didn't care.

Not arguing with you there SS, but the way the WRU went about it was all cloak and dagger, and that is why there is still quite a bitter taste in some of the more passionate fans from the valley's After our first season we sent Gareth Thomas to France and made a 750 thousand pound profit for Toluose to buy him out of his contract so it is not as if we were a sinking ship.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Which is basically what they have done and now people are moaning about poor attendances, disillusionment among fans and falling attendance numbers. So this is how you think the club should continue?

I mentioned what the Blues had/hadn't done in the valleys because you asked for proof of what they hadn't done in the valleys - my point was the attitude - They haven't emcompassed their whole region (not specifically Ponty, I'm talking about everywhere from Barry/Penarth all the way to Merthyr - they've already lost Bridgend) - but they have said come and watch our Cardiff club (not your region).

They have ignored a huge new market and are continuing with generally aging old Cardiff RFC fans - and lets face it, ALL of the clubs were in dire straights before regionalisation and wouldn't have survived.

Barry, Penarth, Dinas Powys, etc, etc, carry on as far as you want and dig your hole deeper as far as i'm concerned. Aaargh!!! This is my neck of the woods, so I reckon I know a bit more about it than you Smirnhoff. What IS your problem? Why do you keep knocking Cardiff Blues?

Smirnoffpriest wrote:
I think that says it all - but then some Blues fans will tell you that Methyr isn't in their region and that the Blues region is just Cardiff and nothing else and if anyone from outside of Cardiff wants to support the Blues then they also have to embrace the Cardiff ethos.

I would guess that fans from Merthyr and Cardiff took no notice in the first place because regionalism meant nothing anyway.

Smirnoffpriest wrote: embrace the Cardiff ethos.

Not sure what you mean by the Cardiff ethos, but it must be similar to what has gone on for donkeys years regardless of where people lived or were from? Cardiff RFC were always the main club to support. Your surreal regionalism obsession appears to make out that Cardiff RFC are the anti christ, but if you bothered to ask people from the valleys you would find out that most don't give a monkeys and accept that Cardiff IS Cardiff and always were Cardiff. Pretending to be something else doesn't work for anybody.

I don't know why I bother - I don't have an obsession with regionalism, I just merely point out that regionalism is what we have and what we'll have for the forseeable future. It is you who seems obsessed with saying that it is still the old clubs in Wales and that it is they who are playing the Irish provinces, Scottish clubs and Italian franchises/regions. And keep banging on about Cardiff RFC being a professional club playing at the top tier - when they are an amatuer club playing second tier rugby.

Also as I have said many times I do not hate Cardiff Blues, I've been to see them many times - fair enough only 3 times this season as I'm finding it a bit of a struggle money-wise to get to much live rugby this season, but over half a dozen the season before. And I'll support any Welsh region so long as their not playing against the Scarlets.

I want a strong Blues side who are florishing and giving the exciting Welsh youngsters they have (many of whom are coming through now) experience of top notch rugby - it's a positive for the Blues and Wales.

As you say Cardiff IS Cardiff, but Cardiff Blues is the Cardiff Blues and the difference between the two is the cruical point.

im with smirnoff on this one and its the likes of crdive dave who are hampering regionalism as a successful entity

To be fair Even Cardiff Blues aren't sure if they are a new region or Cardiff RFC, look at how they keep Cardiff RFC's eurpeaon record etc etc. It's all mixed up I think They and Scarlets are trying to please both sets of fans, ie were are the old club you loved to some, and we are a new region to others, but it maybe just ends up annoying both.

Oh, they are very sure. They are Cardiff RFC and no mistake. Witness a full CAP for a Connacht match.

Glas a du wrote:Oh, they are very sure. They are Cardiff RFC and no mistake. Witness a full CAP for a Connacht match.

And then witness a few thousand for the Scarlets match at the CCS when they desperately needed a massive crowd to build on the good attendances at Connacht/Ulster

Terrible example of "market research" this. You might as well ask 1000 turkeys what they think of a traditional christmas dinner!

Of course regional rugby needs much improvement but all too often emotion gets in the way of pragmatism. There is not enough money or attendence to sustain 4 professional and competitive regions let alone 5. We should move to three regional franchises, independent of clubs and with central contracts. Take away a few rich benefactors and professional rugby in Wales would die. The WRU can't keep their heads in the sand. The clock can't be turned back but neither can we continue without reform.

offload wrote:Terrible example of "market research" this. You might as well ask 1000 turkeys what they think of a traditional christmas dinner!

Of course regional rugby needs much improvement but all too often emotion gets in the way of pragmatism. There is not enough money or attendence to sustain 4 professional and competitive regions let alone 5. We should move to three regional franchises, independent of clubs and with central contracts. Take away a few rich benefactors and professional rugby in Wales would die. The WRU can't keep their heads in the sand. The clock can't be turned back but neither can we continue without reform.

But who can afford to replace the benefactors? The problem with the original set up of the regions was that there was no answer to that question

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

offload wrote:Terrible example of "market research" this. You might as well ask 1000 turkeys what they think of a traditional christmas dinner!

Of course regional rugby needs much improvement but all too often emotion gets in the way of pragmatism. There is not enough money or attendence to sustain 4 professional and competitive regions let alone 5. We should move to three regional franchises, independent of clubs and with central contracts. Take away a few rich benefactors and professional rugby in Wales would die. The WRU can't keep their heads in the sand. The clock can't be turned back but neither can we continue without reform.

But who can afford to replace the benefactors? The problem with the original set up of the regions was that there was no answer to that question

Absolutely agree Smirnoff - that's the big question. However I believe it's the WRUs problem to solve. It may not be an easy solution buts it's their job ! They must come up with a long term plan and can't duck the responsibility just becuse it's a hard question.

I'm not sure it's that easy - I think it's more to do with the fact that there is no money in the Welsh game and in this climate hard to attract huge sponsorship/ownership deals for poorly supported rugby clubs who are barely making money (if at all).

It could well be in the face of no other choice the benefactors are the much preferable option

Smirnoffpriest wrote:I'm not sure it's that easy - I think it's more to do with the fact that there is no money in the Welsh game and in this climate hard to attract huge sponsorship/ownership deals for poorly supported rugby clubs who are barely making money (if at all).

It could well be in the face of no other choice the benefactors are the much preferable option

Not sure that is correct. Cash rich businesses such as Admiral and Specsavers have shown willingness to sponsor the sport and there is potential cash from Welsh Water too.

If the game went fully regional significant funds could become available from 'proper' corporations - not local benefactor types who just want a seat in the plush seats for themselves and their mates.

But the big companies won't get involved while the regions/superclubs are so intrinsically tied to individual small towns along the M4.

Casartelli wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:I'm not sure it's that easy - I think it's more to do with the fact that there is no money in the Welsh game and in this climate hard to attract huge sponsorship/ownership deals for poorly supported rugby clubs who are barely making money (if at all).

It could well be in the face of no other choice the benefactors are the much preferable option

Not sure that is correct. Cash rich businesses such as Admiral and Specsavers have shown willingness to sponsor the sport and there is potential cash from Welsh Water too.

If the game went fully regional significant funds could become available from 'proper' corporations - not local benefactor types who just want a seat in the plush seats for themselves and their mates.

But the big companies won't get involved while the regions/superclubs are so intrinsically tied to individual small towns along the M4.

Big companies sponsor teams to get their names on the telly, where a team is based/population is irrelevant to advertising. It is how many people will see it on the box that is important.

Bit harsh on the Dragons there too, I think having the regional academy in Cross Keys next to the current best regional premiership team is a good thing, even if it is a small town. Why should this affect sponsorship?

https://www.facebook.com/valleysrugby

should take a look at this, for anyone who doesn't have facebook it appears that the movement for a pro team in the valleys has moved into the digital age to attract the generation y.

Basically a facebook page calling for a valleys team and promoting all things good about valleys rugby...about 400 fans have liked it so fargood luck to them....still no solid basis for how/where they would fund a team tho :S

oh and they are planning a rally at sardis on saturday

We know already that they want a valley's team, a rally is all well and good, but until someone comes up with a sound business plan, the WRU aren't going to do anything. Why can't they see that?

not disagreeing with you...just passing on the information, they are on twitter too @valleysrugby

nah I know, just commenting on the info you supplied is all

Shame no-ones come up with financial backing yet or a sound business plan - still it'll be a good election bandwagon...

GavinDragon wrote:im with smirnoff on this one and its the likes of crdive dave who are hampering regionalism as a successful entity

I'm hampering regionalsm?
Excellent. Do I get a medal or what?

Kingshu wrote:To be fair Even Cardiff Blues aren't sure if they are a new region or Cardiff RFC, look at how they keep Cardiff RFC's eurpeaon record etc etc. It's all mixed up I think They and Scarlets are trying to please both sets of fans, ie were are the old club you loved to some, and we are a new region to others, but it maybe just ends up annoying both.

Smirnhoff should be able to clarify.
Have fun.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Shame no-ones come up with financial backing yet or a sound business plan - still it'll be a good election bandwagon...

Since when has financial backing and a sound business plan been a requirement for a superclub?!!!

Get an Ocean Finance style loan off the council and scribble some forecasts on a Starbucks napkin...

...and away you go!

Casartelli wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Shame no-ones come up with financial backing yet or a sound business plan - still it'll be a good election bandwagon...

Since when has financial backing and a sound business plan been a requirement for a superclub?!!!

Get an Ocean Finance style loan off the council and scribble some forecasts on a Starbucks napkin...

...and away you go!

Well that was the whole problem at the start - and to be honest relying on sponsors who could pull out/change the demands at any point (assuming you can attract multi-million £ yearly sponsorship deals) won't make it any easier (the Specsavers Dragons could be under threat of going under anytime Specsavers don't feel they are getting a decent ROI).

But seeing as the Scarlets are about to break even next season and are continuing to improve sales and financial performance, the Dragons are operating within their budgets and are looking for increased revenue generated by the new stand, and the Ospreys will do ok now they've reigned in their spending, it's not all doom and gloom