Ireland v Scotland match thread

[eirebilly]

First topic message reminder :

Scotland have been playing well and causing alot of teams problems and leading the 6N stats in line breaks.

I am expecting a very open game against Ireland and it could be a high scorer.

[Irishhoneymonster]

With regards to Earls diving, if it was a dive then I would be very disappointed and hope that sort of thing can be stamped out of Rugby. However I have watched this on replay and do believe Evans clipped his foot. If someone clips your foot at that speed then you are going down. I need to watch it again to see if Earls reaction is theatrical and if so I'd also be very disappointed, but the point is if his foot was clipped (which I believe it was) then you are going down!

Althopugh I can't think of a specific example right now, one thing I would say with regards to play acting etc, is that I feel that I have witnessed refs reacting to it and only giving something after the play acting. If that is the case then refs have to be partly to blame for only giving things after a reaction from a particular team. I am sure I have witnessed things that have not been given which should have been, and I unfortunately think would have been given if the team being wronged had reacted more to it.

This does not make it right and I am completely against play acting but part of the responsibility may lie with the refs. Having said that it should be stamped out at all costs and if that means punishing people for it more then so be it. But if you're going to do that then refs have to be stronger and not be influenced but also give something if there is reason to. God not sure that makes sense but hopefully you get my drift.

Anyway good game and hard luck to Scotland. Despite a poor 2nd half, I still feel Robinson is making progress and should be given more time.

From an Irish perspective, before this match I was unsure if 2 wins from the last 2 would be enough to perk me up. I now think if Ireland go to England and play well with a bit of attacking flair and win then I may be appeased with regards to Kidney, but is still a close run thing. Even with a good performance today we kicked the ball too much and didn't attack enough for my liking. If Kidney is beginning to understand that we need to attack more and, let's the team do so, then I might no longer be calling for his head after this 6 nations, I may wait until after NZ. Is still a pity though that it takes injuries for changes to be made.

[TJ1]

They can both run for the ball tho - feet tangling accidentally as they both go for the same ball is no foul. the theatrical reaction make it look like afoul

[eirebilly]

As much as we all slate Deccie (i do alot as well) he has been pretty spot on with his tactics so far.

[MrsP]

They can both run for the ball tho - feet tangling accidentally as they both go for the same ball is no foul. the theatrical reaction make it look like afoul

You can both run for the ball but you can't pull back the attacking player by the arm as Evans did to Earls.

The vehement protests afterwards that he hadn't touched him were a bit daft.

[Gretgael1]

They can both run for the ball tho - feet tangling accidentally as they both go for the same ball is no foul. the theatrical reaction make it look like afoul

I fail to see how Earls was theatrical. He got back up straight away. If his legs were clipped and he felt he was impeded on his way to the try line, I think to raise your hands in the air and question it would be only natural. It's not like he rolled around, eventually got up, and hassled the ref into a decision. Do people complain when the forwards during the ruck wail to the ref that an infringement is taking place? Is this also unsporting behavior?

[eirebilly]

They can both run for the ball tho - feet tangling accidentally as they both go for the same ball is no foul. the theatrical reaction make it look like afoul

You can both run for the ball but you can't pull back the attacking player by the arm as Evans did to Earls.

The vehement protests afterwards that he hadn't touched him were a bit daft.

Am MrsP, i dont think that anyone is saying that Evans was'nt stupid and that the yellow card should'nt have been awarded. Most, myself included, feel that Earles made alot more of the situation than what it was.

[MrsP]

I hate theatricals too but I really don't think Earls milked it at all. he was pulled back while running at full tilt.

I defy any of you to keep your feet in those circumstances. I'm not sure if his legs tangled with Evans or if the rotation just made his own legs get tangled but he could not have stopped himself falling over at that speed and he rolled and got up immediately.

I'm glad a penalty try wasn't given but I think you are being very harsh on Earls.

[eirebilly]

MrsP, there was contact without a doubt and that would knock anyone down but the manner in which Earles went down was disappointing.

[MrsP]

I am looking forward to the videos of all of you keeping on your feet or falling in a less disappointing way under the same circumstances.

How on earth do you fall at full tilt in a less disappointing manner?

[George Carlin]

I am looking forward to the videos of all of you keeping on your feet or falling in a less disappointing way under the same circumstances.

How on earth do you fall at full tilt in a less disappointing manner?

BOD would have been able to pull it off...

[eirebilly]

I am looking forward to the videos of all of you keeping on your feet or falling in a less disappointing way under the same circumstances.

How on earth do you fall at full tilt in a less disappointing manner?

Can you please point out where i have said that he did'nt get ticked? I have said that he got ticked and that would fell all. My point is the manner in which he fell. MrsP, if we are going to turn this into a 17 page discussion then you will have to do better than that

Love you though

[Biltong]

There was no contact with his legs, only his arm.

[eirebilly]

Havent seen the replays yet biltong but i thought that there was contact with his legs?

[Biltong]

I didn't see any, the camera angle showed them running side by side and I slo mowed it, perhaps another camera angle will show different.

[eirebilly]

I am almost certain that there was contact biltong.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Good game overall, thought the ref was pretty good overall and both teams looked to play rugby which was very nice. Some good performance from Scotland I think you guys are like us, if a few decisions had gone your way you'd be doing much better in the competition.

Irish perspective:

Healy 8/10
Great scrummaging and did very well in the medium wide channels carrying wise. His defence was good and he did some good work in the rucks.

Best 7/10
Poor lineout throwing at the beginning but improved. Great work at the breakdown and defence. Huge effort there. Good leadership too but not tested much there

Ross 7.5/10
One of his best games in green, serious scrummaging and was much more useful around the park most noticably at the breakdown.

O'Callaghan 5.5/10
Conceeded a lot of penalties, was ok in the lineout, didn't carry much and his rucking was to the ball not beyond it.

Ryan 9/10
Very athletic and yet physical in all aspects. Started winning scottish lineout ball which is very impressive IMO. Good carrying and runs clever lines and support running for a front 5 player.

Ferris 9/10
Turning into BOD in how he breaks the line to make huge hits. He really powers into rucks and his carrying over short yards was very effective in sucking in defenders. Would like him used as a lineout option more.

O'Mahony 8.5/10
Great steals and work at the ruck. Didn't look out of place physically. great game but think the Scots made him look better than he was (no offence intended) Not sure who I would start next week.

Heaslip 7/10
Something of an unsung hero. He was very effective at the rucks along with Best. Again would like to see him used in the lineout more. His athleticism is exceptionally useful if not always seen.

Reddan 7/10
His first few box kicks were poor but improved. His service quickened also. Defence wasn't great but his offence was really, really sharp.

Sexton 8/10
Like Ferris crucial to our defence, he shoots up and gets those choke tackles started. He kicked much better and his range of passing was pretty good too. Still a few mistakes but good game.

Trimble 6.5/10
Solid in defence, not great in attack but took his try well, would still love to see him come off his wing more and take the ball between 12 and 13.

Darcy 5.5/10
Very little offered in attack but his defence was good. Some basic errors and he needs to alter his lines of running. He rarely looks threatening and his style seems archaic and out of touch with Kearney, Bowe and Sexton etc.

Earls 6/10
He defended quite well I felt apart from a badly missed tackle on Gray. He still doesn't seem to offer much in attack even against a (poor) Scottish team apart from one break (scot down to 14) he never really looked dangerous.

Bowe 7/10
Thought his try should have been counted but played ok again I'd like to see him coming off his wing more. Defended well and was good under the high ball.

Kearney: 9/10
Again, very good under the high ball, best attacker in the backs by far entering the line and countering. Great boot and positional play was good too

Court-Played well I felt. Scrum held up just as well with him on.
Cronin-Seemed to get on ok overall
McCarthy-Not on for long enough
Jennings-Again seemed to do ok.
O'Leary-Slow service again even with a tiring Scot team and one down to 14
O'gara-Seemed to play well enough overall
McFadden-Well taken try. I like how he looks for work.

[Biltong]

Well billy I will need to see video evidence to that fact, I didn't see anything that would suggest there was.

You know yourself as a rugby player the moment your leg is tapped or pushed into your other leg, your momentum takes your down to the ground and because it surprises you your natural instinct is that your hands are stretched out in front of you not to hurt yourself. That was not the case here.

Earls was waiting for any kind of impediment to go down, he didn't think he would get to the ball, so the next best thing is cry foul.

[eirebilly]

Trimble 6.5/10
Solid in defence, not great in attack but took his try well, would still love to see him come off his wing more and take the ball between 12 and 13.

I thought that Trimble had one of his better games for Ireland. He was constantly looking for work and as a result had many runs. I was actually thinking that he may get close to the MoTM.

[Gretgael1]

Good game overall, thought the ref was pretty good overall and both teams looked to play rugby which was very nice. Some good performance from Scotland I think you guys are like us, if a few decisions had gone your way you'd be doing much better in the competition.

Irish perspective:

Healy 8/10
Great scrummaging and did very well in the medium wide channels carrying wise. His defence was good and he did some good work in the rucks.

Best 7/10
Poor lineout throwing at the beginning but improved. Great work at the breakdown and defence. Huge effort there. Good leadership too but not tested much there

Ross 7.5/10
One of his best games in green, serious scrummaging and was much more useful around the park most noticably at the breakdown.

O'Callaghan 5.5/10
Conceeded a lot of penalties, was ok in the lineout, didn't carry much and his rucking was to the ball not beyond it.

Ryan 9/10
Very athletic and yet physical in all aspects. Started winning scottish lineout ball which is very impressive IMO. Good carrying and runs clever lines and support running for a front 5 player.

Ferris 9/10
Turning into BOD in how he breaks the line to make huge hits. He really powers into rucks and his carrying over short yards was very effective in sucking in defenders. Would like him used as a lineout option more.

O'Mahony 8.5/10
Great steals and work at the ruck. Didn't look out of place physically. great game but think the Scots made him look better than he was (no offence intended) Not sure who I would start next week.

Heaslip 7/10
Something of an unsung hero. He was very effective at the rucks along with Best. Again would like to see him used in the lineout more. His athleticism is exceptionally useful if not always seen.

Reddan 7/10
His first few box kicks were poor but improved. His service quickened also. Defence wasn't great but his offence was really, really sharp.

Sexton 8/10
Like Ferris crucial to our defence, he shoots up and gets those choke tackles started. He kicked much better and his range of passing was pretty good too. Still a few mistakes but good game.

Trimble 6.5/10
Solid in defence, not great in attack but took his try well, would still love to see him come off his wing more and take the ball between 12 and 13.

Darcy 5.5/10
Very little offered in attack but his defence was good. Some basic errors and he needs to alter his lines of running. He rarely looks threatening and his style seems archaic and out of touch with Kearney, Bowe and Sexton etc.

Earls 6/10
He defended quite well I felt apart from a badly missed tackle on Gray. He still doesn't seem to offer much in attack even against a (poor) Scottish team apart from one break (scot down to 14) he never really looked dangerous.

Bowe 7/10
Thought his try should have been counted but played ok again I'd like to see him coming off his wing more. Defended well and was good under the high ball.

Kearney: 9/10
Again, very good under the high ball, best attacker in the backs by far entering the line and countering. Great boot and positional play was good too

Court-Played well I felt. Scrum held up just as well with him on.
Cronin-Seemed to get on ok overall
McCarthy-Not on for long enough
Jennings-Again seemed to do ok.
O'Leary-Slow service again even with a tiring Scot team and one down to 14
O'gara-Seemed to play well enough overall
McFadden-Well taken try. I like how he looks for work.

Spot on. I'd agree with all of that.

[eirebilly]

Well billy I will need to see video evidence to that fact, I didn't see anything that would suggest there was.

You know yourself as a rugby player the moment your leg is tapped or pushed into your other leg, your momentum takes your down to the ground and because it surprises you your natural instinct is that your hands are stretched out in front of you not to hurt yourself. That was not the case here.

Earls was waiting for any kind of impediment to go down, he didn't think he would get to the ball, so the next best thing is cry foul.

Exactly, self preservation takes over. I say again, although Earles was ticked, his going to ground was not in a manner of a man suprised.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Trimble 6.5/10
Solid in defence, not great in attack but took his try well, would still love to see him come off his wing more and take the ball between 12 and 13.

I thought that Trimble had one of his better games for Ireland. He was constantly looking for work and as a result had many runs. I was actually thinking that he may get close to the MoTM.

Personally I don't think so, he was our least effective back 3 player IMO. When mcfadden came on for instance he was constantly looking for the ball and seemed to have an immediate impact upon the game. Trimble is one of my favourite players I must admit and am so glad he has scored a few tries in the last few games because I felt that was why he wasn't playing for Ireland more, his lack of try scoring.

[MrsP]

Evans pulls Earl's left arm back as he is running full tilt causing Earls to rotate and, possibly, trip over his own feet. He didn't fall as you would in a tap tacle because a rotationary force had been applied to his arm.

Actually, if you look carefully, I think both his feet were off the floor so it must have been a tip tackle.

I expect a citing for imminently!



Seriously guys. I hate diving too but if you accept there was a foul and you accept he could do nothing but fall do you not think you are being a bit harsh to judge the style of that fall?

[Biltong]

Well I am recording the match tomorrow morning, so I will put it on my laptop and find a way to put it here, I am of course technically challenged so have no idea how to do it.

[Biltong]

Evans pulls Earl's left arm back as he is running full tilt causing Earls to rotate and, possibly, trip over his own feet. He didn't fall as you would in a tap tacle because a rotationary force had been applied to his arm.

Actually, if you look carefully, I think both his feet were off the floor so it must have been a tip tackle.

I expect a citing for imminently!



Seriously guys. I hate diving too but if you accept there was a foul and you accept he could do nothing but fall do you not think you are being a bit harsh to judge the style of that fall?

MrsP, if it is a dive, you might as well award points for it.

[eirebilly]

Fair enough Pete, i just thought that Trimble was putting himself about all over the place and was making a decent impact

[eirebilly]

Evans pulls Earl's left arm back as he is running full tilt causing Earls to rotate and, possibly, trip over his own feet. He didn't fall as you would in a tap tacle because a rotationary force had been applied to his arm.

Actually, if you look carefully, I think both his feet were off the floor so it must have been a tip tackle.

I expect a citing for imminently!



Seriously guys. I hate diving too but if you accept there was a foul and you accept he could do nothing but fall do you not think you are being a bit harsh to judge the style of that fall?

Hee hee, your making jokes which usually means you are wrong

[MrsP]

Evans pulls Earl's left arm back as he is running full tilt causing Earls to rotate and, possibly, trip over his own feet. He didn't fall as you would in a tap tacle because a rotationary force had been applied to his arm.

Actually, if you look carefully, I think both his feet were off the floor so it must have been a tip tackle.

I expect a citing for imminently!



Seriously guys. I hate diving too but if you accept there was a foul and you accept he could do nothing but fall do you not think you are being a bit harsh to judge the style of that fall?

Hee hee, your making jokes which usually means you are wrong

Excuse me?????

When have I ever been wrong??????

[eirebilly]

My mistake MrsP

[MrsP]

Seriously though.

Is it up to a fouled player to try his best to cover up that foul? Is it fair for him to do his utmost to prevent the ref from seeing that foul?

Where do you draw the line?

Now, if he had fallen when there was no need or if he had pretended to be injured, then I would agree with you.

[eirebilly]

Seriously though.

Is it up to a fouled player to try his best to cover up that foul? Is it fair for him to do his utmost to prevent the ref from seeing that foul?

Where do you draw the line?

Now, if he had fallen when there was no need or if he had pretended to be injured, then I would agree with you.

That ladies and gentlemen is the rarely seen MrsP possible admittance of being ever so slightly wrong

[Maddog]

I recall Cian Healy getting some stick from some (maybe just one) poster(s) recently for his scrummaging, wonder what their opinions of him were today, thought he totally dominated throughout! On Earls I thought thought Evans leg clipped earls heals, thats how the BBC saw it too but I'd have to see it again, thought it was a non-event until I came on here really

[MrsP]

Seriously though.

Is it up to a fouled player to try his best to cover up that foul? Is it fair for him to do his utmost to prevent the ref from seeing that foul?

Where do you draw the line?

Now, if he had fallen when there was no need or if he had pretended to be injured, then I would agree with you.

That ladies and gentlemen is the rarely seen MrsP possible admittance of being ever so slightly wrong

Eh?



Where did I admit that?

[eirebilly]

I personally didnt think that Healy scrummaged well in the first half. He rarely bound and was lucky to get away with that.

In the second half, he bound well and was in total control.

His runs were also brilliant

[eirebilly]

Seriously though.

Is it up to a fouled player to try his best to cover up that foul? Is it fair for him to do his utmost to prevent the ref from seeing that foul?

Where do you draw the line?

Now, if he had fallen when there was no need or if he had pretended to be injured, then I would agree with you.

That ladies and gentlemen is the rarely seen MrsP possible admittance of being ever so slightly wrong

Eh?



Where did I admit that?

That would be me reading between the lines.

[MrsP]

Just blanks there EireB!

[eirebilly]

Just blanks there EireB!

Read again what you wrote

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Yeah Chunky had a go at him on a number of occasions but Healy played well today and against France I thought. he may be the best scrummager but he is definitely improving there consistently and his work in the loose in invaluable.

He played better than jenkins did today anyway Chunky

[eirebilly]

I dont think that chunky is here anymore. I missed his standard comment of Irish people being disgusting hypocrites today

[hugo124]

Earls was tripped up end of story, there should be no speculation over this as I have HD.

[Maddog]

Yes that chunky fellow wasn't the most complimentary of the Irish was he. Healy was up there for motm for me, well he would've been if it weren't for DR

[Notch]

Trimble 6.5/10
Solid in defence, not great in attack but took his try well, would still love to see him come off his wing more and take the ball between 12 and 13.

I thought that Trimble had one of his better games for Ireland. He was constantly looking for work and as a result had many runs. I was actually thinking that he may get close to the MoTM.

Poor Trimby- I've never seen a winger hit more rucks! The last few games have been all graft and no glory. I thought he played quite well today, very industrious and took his try well. Think you get a better sense of the workrate and involvement of players when you're watching in the ground; TV just follows the ball. I thought he was poor last week but this week he played well.

We would want to use him more coming off his wing. In the warm-ups for the RWC we did use him like that and he was one of the form players in Ireland. We've only tried that a few times. His try reminded me of the ones he scored against Leicester, good in a tight space. You absolutely have to get a good tackle in on him because he's fast and physical and great in a traffic and Scotland... well Scotland will be very disappointed in their defence.

[KiaRose]

I am looking forward to the videos of all of you keeping on your feet or falling in a less disappointing way under the same circumstances.

How on earth do you fall at full tilt in a less disappointing manner?

[Standulstermen]

Without reading the thread

Healy- very good. Still gives away twoo many penalties 2 I think today but a live wire
Best- what a call on the 2nd throw. Deserved that try. Did the job
Ross- got on top eventually and was very good. 2 in a row
Doc- one of our weaker players and didn't do enough to answer critics IMO
Ryan- made a mockery out of his benching this 6n. Awesome
Ferris- best player on the park by some distance imo. He is simply awesome. Favourite moment was when he stopped an at full tilt Denton dead and there him back a few yards.
O'mahoney- an auspicious debut for me. Belongs at this level and heres hoping we see Deccie compete on form for the 3 spots
Heaslip- least conspicuous of the back row. Need to rematch before I label him quiet. Did rightly IMO.
Reddan- did well for his try after the buffoon lamont tried to hurt him. I thought we missed his service, good show but badly at fault for Grays try
Sexton- getting all the more reliable with the boot. Growingnintothe game and put more width on the ball today. Great to see
Trimble- excellent. Chasing, tackling and a lovely finish to seal a great showing. Delighted for him.
D'arcy- the weakest link in the team. Tidied up poor ball on 2 occasions but physically done IMO
Earls- I don't think he is the longterm answer but very good today I thought. Talk of diving is (at the moment) IMO disingenuous.
Bowe- at fault with reddan for the try but unlucky not to get one of his own. A constant threat.
Kearney- nailed on lion. Superb form and showing.

[Notch]

This game confirmed that Ryan and O'Mahony should have been in the team much earlier... it's bittersweet to see them come in and perform so well when the chance of winning the Championship has been blown!

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Without reading the thread

Healy- very good. Still gives away twoo many penalties 2 I think today but a live wire
Best- what a call on the 2nd throw. Deserved that try. Did the job
Ross- got on top eventually and was very good. 2 in a row
Doc- one of our weaker players and didn't do enough to answer critics IMO
Ryan- made a mockery out of his benching this 6n. Awesome
Ferris- best player on the park by some distance imo. He is simply awesome. Favourite moment was when he stopped an at full tilt Denton dead and there him back a few yards.
O'mahoney- an auspicious debut for me. Belongs at this level and heres hoping we see Deccie compete on form for the 3 spots
Heaslip- least conspicuous of the back row. Need to rematch before I label him quiet. Did rightly IMO.
Reddan- did well for his try after the buffoon lamont tried to hurt him. I thought we missed his service, good show but badly at fault for Grays try
Sexton- getting all the more reliable with the boot. Growingnintothe game and put more width on the ball today. Great to see
Trimble- excellent. Chasing, tackling and a lovely finish to seal a great showing. Delighted for him.
D'arcy- the weakest link in the team. Tidied up poor ball on 2 occasions but physically done IMO
Earls- I don't think he is the longterm answer but very good today I thought. Talk of diving is (at the moment) IMO disingenuous.
Bowe- at fault with reddan for the try but unlucky not to get one of his own. A constant threat.
Kearney- nailed on lion. Superb form and showing.

I agree with a lot of this maybe wouldn't rate Trimble so highly.
As said above, during the warm ups he was coming off his wing a lot I'd like to see more of that.

DOC and Darcy should not feature in green after this 6N IMO injury withstanding

[Standulstermen]

What did Trimble do wrong Pete? He was the strongest of the back three in the tackle and pulled of a finish that we would have been creaming ourselves over had his name been BOD. Definitely warded off any pretentions on his spot IMO.

Injury withstanding they still shouldn't feature Pete .

[Notch]

DOC and Darcy should not feature in green after this 6N IMO injury withstanding

Agreed.

[ME-109]

More bull coming from the lulster brigade.

Redden was complete pants in the first half. Took his try well but was poor at everything else.
Darcy was poor
DOC was DOC and worked hard in defence and hitting the rucks as usual but there is no one else good enough to replace him
Sexton is still not great, his kicking at goal is faultless thankfully, his defence is good, everything else is mediocre.
What is it about Earls that people don't like I really wonder. Phillip Matthews stated that he had a great game and was making the 13 shirt his own. He had a fine game overall in defence and attack, especially considering he does not look 100% fit

Pete it was redden who missed the tackle you dope not earls.

Of the others, Ryan pom , ferris and Kearney were the standouts. Of the rest the front row scrumaged well and Healy mostly carried well but was isolated a couple of times. Trimble took his try well and was good overall but needs to do more. Heaslip was ok, best lead well and bowe was ok but got caught a couple of times in defence. subs all did well when they came on.

Spot on tactics from kidney, wow now the stats show how well we are doing attack wise...whats that most tries scored etc...who would have thought.

As for Darcy and doc, they are still the best players in their positions. McFadden is not yet good enough and there is no one to replace doc so you can agree all you want about whether they should play again..complete tosh from the whinge brigade.

[Notch]

Given a full deck, I would start Ryan at 4 with O'Connell and O'Driscoll at 12 with Earls. Those two are now bench options at best. Just better players available

[ME-109]

When fit I fully agree, but I don't think kidney will switch bod unfortunately

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