Ross Fords Dissention

Seeing as we are debating about how earls has single headedly transformed the game of rugby into a dramatic diving show akin to football, I think we should also debate how Ross fords reaction towards the ref was just as shocking. He accuses the ref of "costing Scotland the game", no Ross, poor Scottish defence cost your team the game, if I were Scottish I would expect allot more composure from my captain. Max Evans reaction to the touch judge was also silly and unprofessional!

Btw I don’t think earls dived, I think Evans arm tug and slight foot tap threw earls off balance, there wasn’t much malice in it. (Then again I am a tight head and would know too much about running at full tilt)

Before people try and stifle this thread by complaining its just a WUM, I have only put it up to demonstrate that people are being slightly one eyed at this incident, the reactions of the Scottish players to this was very unprofessional and should be heavily criticized, whatever you opinion of what earls did or didn’t do!

Key words here?

Btw I don’t think earls dived!!

I think Earls dived, and I think that Ford and Evans were justified in their over reaction to what was a blatant peice of cheating that brings the whole game into disrepute, Ford and Evans weren't defending themselves against a yellow card, they were defending the sport against a guy who is happy to bring football style 'proffesionalism' into the game!!!

Emmmm so in an attempt to protect the virtues of the game ford blames the ref for loosing his team the game, I don't think so! Ross fords reaction was not justified, even if earls did dive a captin should still be able to keep a level head and deal with the situation effectively, and not just throw the toys out of the pram! I doubt Patterson would have done that, I doubt kellock would have done that either!

I totally 100% agree Belfast! Ford was acting like a child at times yesterday, as were several other Scottish players. I really do not understand his decision to go for goal after getting Ireland within an inch of conceding a penalty try or a yellow card.

I think Mike Blair is also pretty bad for bickering with the ref. I've noticed several Scottish players do it around the rucks, although sometimes it is justified, like yesterday when that Irish player was blatantly not making an attempt to move. But, they are meant to be professionals, and professionals do not bicker with the ref every time something doesn't go their way.

It was a shame how the match finished, the 1st half was really entertaining but the second half was a snooze fest and I think our childish complaining was a big factor in that.

Bsando you have hit the nail on the head, poor way to end a good game between two decent teams!

Proffesionals have the right to make as many mistakes as they like, they are not held to a higher standard to everyone else!

They can whinge and bicker all they like, if the ref doesn't penalise them it's allowed.

Similarly if the likes of POC and Mccaw want to talk to the ref constantly and try to coerce decisions they are allowed. The fact that whinging isn't very effective means they should be better at referee interaction.

How do you feel about Earls reaction, of rolling (wether fouled or not) straight to his feet holding his arms a loft and looking at the ref, when the whistle goes he then jogs back to his half cool as a cucumber!

And how do you feel about POC and BOD's reactions last season to the Welsh try using the wrong ball, the ref awards a try then they square up to him, throw hissy fits and convince him to check with the linesman?!

They were far more intimidating than Evans who stops mid sentence when the ref begins to tell him off!

Ford should have managed the situation a lot better. I can't see anything definitive in any of the replays to say Earls did or did not dive but one thing is for sure, Evans attempt to disrupt Earls was lazy. If I was a scottish fan this is what would p*ss me off more than anything else. He made no effort to get in front of or beside Earls. Had he done this it would have been a lot harder for the ref to award anything as it could be viewed as a fair contest for the ball.

If it was a dive then Earls deserves the criticism. But to the same point Evans deserves similar criticism for approaching the ref in the manner he did - again - another act learned from watching the premiership. The respect that ref's get from players is something rugby can be proud of, I would not like to see us going down the football road on this.

Dissent is dissent is dissent. You can try and justify the choice of every player if you like depending on your own inherent bias. The fact is Earls was fouled. Did he make a meal of it? Perhaps. In your opinion clearly yes. The video appears inconclusive to many other people. I don't like it, just as I don't like many other parts of sportsmanship. You have mentioned a good example in Wales blatantly cheating to score a try against us in Cardiff. I wasn't pleased to be on the receiving end of it, but hats of to the Welsh for getting away for it. The same way as you have to say hats off to McCaw, Pocock, O'Connell and Warburton for constantly breaking the rules (that's cheating) every single time they pull on the shirt.

It's extremely rich of posters to point to Earls and then attempt to defend the really poor example set by an international captain.

Hookisms, please reply to my point.

Do POC and BOD not deserve just as much criticism then after their hissy fit last year to the wrong ball decision! Both squaring up, arguing and forcing the ref to check with his linesman???

Trying to divert attention away from this with, oh but they over reacted is a bit desperate!

Given the blatant cheating to get a player cared from Earls I can understand the reaction

TJ wrote:Given the blatant cheating to get a player cared from Earls I can understand the reaction

Tripping a player to stop him scoring a try is blatant cheating,falling over when you're tripped is not.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Hookisms, please reply to my point.

Do POC and BOD not deserve just as much criticism then after their hissy fit last year to the wrong ball decision! Both squaring up, arguing and forcing the ref to check with his linesman???

Trying to divert attention away from this with, oh but they over reacted is a bit desperate!

Please read the first line of my post again...'dissent is dissent is dissent'. I think that is pretty clear. As I have stated in another post go away and look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRp1sYiQQVU and show where they have 'squared up' to the ref. Perhaps this is a poor choice of words on your part because they do nothing of the sort.

They 'forced' the referee to check with the lineman? The referee is already checking with the referee. Watch the video.

At no point did bod or poc blame the ref for loseing them the game, they were saying that they felt the lineout had formed and that a different ball was used, all constructive input! They didn't bully the ref, they put doubt into his mind which made him check with the TJ, that is what good captins do they get inside the refs head. They don't throw hissy fits and make stupid and childish comments which achieve nothing! Also by your argument if professional are allowed to make mistakes, then if earls did dive then it's ok because he is slowed to make mistakes. You can't have it both ways!

Hook

Replied to that in the other post, but they do have to be told to move 4 times, whereas Evans and Ford do what theyre told first time.

Belfast

A dive is not a mistake, rather like a gouge, or silly dump tackle. For me it's up there with a gouge as it brings the game into disrepute

So does descent, I think what ford and Evans did is far worse than what you perceive earls did!

Dump tackled and gouging have the potential to badly injure or end a players career a dive doesn't hold the same risk so isn't even Close in severity!

If you read my comments on the Earls thread you'll see (as a Scot) I also expressed disappointment at the way the Scotland players interacted with the officials. My view is that only the captain should address the referee (and Ford's comments overstepped what a captain should say to a referee). It was disappointing to see.

Still, I do also think that Earls went down too easily and I hope that Kidney et al have a word. No rugby player should go down under that level of contact. Had Earls had the ball in his arms and been 5 metres from the line I can't help but think he'd have somehow managed to stay on his feet and score.

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Still, I do also think that Earls went down too easily and I hope that Kidney et al have a word. No rugby player should go down under that level of contact. Had Earls had the ball in his arms and been 5 metres from the line I can't help but think he'd have somehow managed to stay on his feet and score.

He was tripped what else could he do,I'll quote Biltong as he initially thought it was a dive but on another viewing he realised that "Evans ran in from behind of Earls and knocked him with his right shin on Earls' left claf, which in turn caused Earls to trip himself."

I disagree with both you and Biltong. Sorry if that wasn't clear from my post.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I disagree with both you and Biltong. Sorry if that wasn't clear from my post.

Fair enough I just fail to see how he could have stayed up as I know myself that when I'm running at full speed the slighest contact to my foot will trip me up.It doesn't matter what size you are an ankle tap will trip you up everytime.

There is no place for diving in the game, neither is there any place to question decisions on the pitch. The footage shows that the officials got the penalty and card 100% right for a professional foul.

AFAIK O'Connell ASKED Kaplan to check with the touch judge in the Rees/Phillips try rather than say he was wrong. Of course Kaplan was just as culpable as Peter Allen as he watched the ball boy hand the ball to Rees, but once Kaplan had asked Allen there was no dissent or accusing the referee for costing the game. Similarly there was no dissent from POC when Barnes awarded Wales the game this year for the Ferris' tackle.

This wouldn't have happened if Evans didn't tug Earls.

Byrne vs Godman 2010, Phillips v Ireland 2011, now THOSE are causes for dissent as it is a genuine complaint. But I doubt players seriously think they'll change a decision once it's made anyway ... I mean it just won't, it's refereeing 101.

[Btw not a WUM it just happens the two situations that popped to mind were Welsh ... I think the first was a cheat, the second a misunderstanding from Welsh squad as they didn't even realise at first]

bsando wrote:I totally 100% agree Belfast! Ford was acting like a child at times yesterday, as were several other Scottish players. I really do not understand his decision to go for goal after getting Ireland within an inch of conceding a penalty try or a yellow card.

I think Mike Blair is also pretty bad for bickering with the ref. I've noticed several Scottish players do it around the rucks, although sometimes it is justified, like yesterday when that Irish player was blatantly not making an attempt to move. But, they are meant to be professionals, and professionals do not bicker with the ref every time something doesn't go their way.

It was a shame how the match finished, the 1st half was really entertaining but the second half was a snooze fest and I think our childish complaining was a big factor in that.

+1

Red Right wrote:Ford should have managed the situation a lot better. I can't see anything definitive in any of the replays to say Earls did or did not dive but one thing is for sure, Evans attempt to disrupt Earls was lazy. If I was a scottish fan this is what would p*ss me off more than anything else. He made no effort to get in front of or beside Earls. Had he done this it would have been a lot harder for the ref to award anything as it could be viewed as a fair contest for the ball.

If it was a dive then Earls deserves the criticism. But to the same point Evans deserves similar criticism for approaching the ref in the manner he did - again - another act learned from watching the premiership. The respect that ref's get from players is something rugby can be proud of, I would not like to see us going down the football road on this.

+1