Your Scotland Squad v Italy

First topic message reminder :

Alright Scots lads (and any lasses) it's that time of year again, when we all sit round, grab a beer (or 6) and watch the pinnacle of wooden spoon rugby, the experts of choke, also-rans and "we nearly beat them this time". Those magnificent 2 teams in the 6 nations that roll their 32 sided die at competition time and see if they'll upset any of the other 4 teams (with all other 28 slots reserved for 'only try against Italy/Scotland - delete as appropriate). My my, it has come round so fast. Super Saturday match no.1 (also known as "well we have to make the first match of Super Saturday in *some* way watchable by knowing it'll be a wooden spoon fest" ... indeed I won't go into how drawing up the fixture list in this way often FORCES this fixture to be so, because that is the power of psychology). The drama awaits. The knock ons beckon. The rock solid defence is ready to crumble. Andrew Cotter can't sleep.

Rome is booming this year, but WHAT will indeed commence? Probably a snooze fest intermingled with some poor defending allowing for the occasional try. But what is certain is we'll have our heads in hands, as is tradition, all over again.

WHAT Scotland team would you pick if you were Robinson? Okay not if you were Robinson because we all know he will do something like surprise us all and actually pick Matt Scott, albeit at 9, move Blair out of the XXII completely, put Cusiter on the wing, move Lamont to 10 in a bid to get him to play everywhere before retirement and bench Laidlaw only to not use him anyway. [And that's just the backline, don't get me started on the positional switch he decides is a masterstroke regarding Richie Gray] but if you were head coach of your own right?

Here's mine:

1 Jacobsen
2 Ford [C - only for consistency's sake]
3 Welsh
4 Gray
5 Hamilton
6 Harley
7 Rennie
8 Denton
9 Blair
10 Laidlaw
11 Lamont
12 Scott
13 De Luca
14 Jones
15 Hogg
16 Murray
17 Lawson
18 Kellock
19 Barclay
20 Weir
21 Morrison
22 Thompson [come on, was S Lamont seriously covering FB last game?]

Game plan: GO OUT AND PLAY BOYS. If you are doing well you ain't getting subbed off - promise.

It's true, from the SRU website:

Scotland team (sponsor RBS) to play Italy at the Olympic Stadium, Rome on Saturday 17 March in the RBS 6 Nations Championship, kick-off 1.30pm local time (12.30pm GMT)

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) 3 caps, 1 try, 5 points

14 Max Evans (Castres) 27 caps, 3 tries, 15 points
13 Nick De Luca (Edinburgh Rugby) 32 caps, 1 try, 5 points
12 Graeme Morrison (Glasgow Warriors) 34 caps, 3 tries, 15 points
11 Sean Lamont (Scarlets) 64 caps, 8 tries, 40 points

10 Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby) 6 caps, 1 try, 2 conversions, 6 penalties, 27 points
9 Mike Blair (Edinburgh Rugby), 79 caps, 7 tries, 35 points

1 Allan Jacobsen (Edinburgh Rugby) 64 caps
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) 57 caps, 2 tries, 10 points CAPTAIN
3 Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby) 12 caps
4 Richie Gray (Glasgow Warriors) 20 caps, 1 try, 5 points
5 Jim Hamilton (Gloucester) 38 caps, 1 try, 5 points
6 John Barclay (Glasgow Warriors) 36 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
7 Ross Rennie (Edinburgh Rugby) 15 caps
8 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby) 5 caps

Substitutes

16 Scott Lawson (Gloucester) 32 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
17 Euan Murray (Newcastle Falcons) 43 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
18 Alastair Kellock (Glasgow Warriors) 40 caps, 1 try, 5 points
19 Richie Vernon (Sale Sharks) 17 caps
20 Chris Cusiter (Glasgow Warriors) 59 caps, 3 tries, 15 points
21 Ruaridh Jackson (Glasgow Warriors) 12 caps, 2 conversions, 2 penalties, 2 drop-goals, 16 points
22 Jack Cuthbert (Bath Rugby) 1 cap

Jack Cuthbert Some kinda joke - wonder if Robinson thinks this is a get out of jail free card in the sense that he's sending the same team (essentially) to "prove" themselves. What a muppett - completely unable to learn from his mistakes

Cmon Scotland

Worse still, I've just seen the jokers in charge:

Referee: Alain Rolland (Ireland). Assistant referees: George Clancy (Ireland) and Pascal Gauzere (France). TMO: Nigel Whitehouse (Wales)

I give up

I suppose we shouldn't have expected anything different. Matt Scott's bizzare abscence aside, the starting 15 is decent.

Hollbeck Ghyll wrote:I suppose we shouldn't have expected anything different. Matt Scott's bizzare abscence aside, the starting 15 is decent.

Apart from [1] [6] [11] [12] and [14]

[1] Jacobsen been woefully out of form in the scrum and has given away an endless supply of penalties in the loose (Welsh should have been given a chance.

[6] Barclay is a 7, this failed experiment should have finished by now. he made a good account of himself against France but was shown to be too light against Ireland.

[11] Sean Lamont was to blame for the Reddan debacle. JT should have been given a chance.

[12] Morrison, been there done that and asked for him to be dropped before and never played again.

[14] Evans has brought nothing of value all 6N and has shown poor form at Castres.

As for Cuthbert WTF?

Andy must be wanting sacked.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Hollbeck Ghyll wrote:I suppose we shouldn't have expected anything different. Matt Scott's bizzare abscence aside, the starting 15 is decent.

Apart from [1] [6] [11] [12] and [14]

[1] Jacobsen been woefully out of form in the scrum and has given away an endless supply of penalties in the loose (Welsh should have been given a chance.

[6] Barclay is a 7, this failed experiment should have finished by now. he made a good account of himself against France but was shown to be too light against Ireland.

[11] Sean Lamont was to blame for the Reddan debacle. JT should have been given a chance.

[12] Morrison, been there done that and asked for him to be dropped before and never played again.

[14] Evans has brought nothing of value all 6N and has shown poor form at Castres.

As for Cuthbert WTF?

Andy must be wanting sacked.

Perhaps I'm just seeing things through the glasses of the current selection policy - expecting out of form players to be picked, and dealing with it. All of your points are true, but what else did you expect? AR doesn't seem to rate any other props to replace Jacobsen, he is insisting that Barclay play blindside (while not perfect, I don't think this has been a disaster), Lamont was never going to be dropped, Morrison's tackle and general work rate has saved him in AR's eyes, and Evans is our 'creative spark', irrespectice of whether he is creating anything or not.

“Jack has featured regularly for Bath this season. He’s strong and we know from his involvement with the squad back in the summer how much it means to him to play for Scotland.” - Andy Robinson

Yeah he has featured for Bath, but he has been poor to rubbish. Lets set up a meeting andy and I'll tell you how much it would mean for me to play for Scotland, I wouldn't expect to be parachuted in for Ross Ford at hooker based on "how much it means for me" to play for Scotland!

Forgot mention - I am completely stumped by Cuthbert. Just bizzare

Cuthbert! wha..th...?...why...whaaaaaaaaaaatttt????????????

I really don't know what Weir has done to be overtaken by Jackson either. Jackson was rubbish when he came on against Ireland. He is a good player and I think will one day be an imperitive player for Scotland, but he has not shown any form since the RWC so I have no idea why he is included over Weir who pulled the strings to guide Scotland A to a famous win over the Saxons, including scoring a try himself!

Utter Madness!!!

ARRGGHHHHHHHHH

Holy molly

What do you have to do to be dropped

Of this squad - the following are not deserving of a place in the Scotland back room - let alone on the pitch

14 Max Evans (Castres) 27 caps, 3 tries, 15 points - Poor form - got sent off (rightly for being stupid)


1 Allan Jacobsen (Edinburgh Rugby) 64 caps - terrible form
3 Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby) 12 caps

Substitutes

17 Euan Murray (Newcastle Falcons) 43 caps, 2 tries, 10 points - if running backwards in the scrum and offering nothing in the loose if what we are after - bang on - if not - then a lump of haggis would provide more impact from the bench
18 Alastair Kellock (Glasgow Warriors) 40 caps, 1 try, 5 points - out of form and not providing impact
21 Ruaridh Jackson (Glasgow Warriors) 12 caps, 2 conversions, 2 penalties, 2 drop-goals, 16 points - terrible terrible performance again - provided NOTHING except poor kicking


Added to the really luck but could be allowed near

13 Nick De Luca (Edinburgh Rugby) 32 caps, 1 try, 5 points - needs a second good game
12 Graeme Morrison (Glasgow Warriors) 34 caps, 3 tries, 15 points - does what it says on the tin - expect the tin has been left in the shet too many years and is a bit sludgy
11 Sean Lamont (Scarlets) 64 caps, 8 tries, 40 points - losing faith with him. Needs a new brain and a good performance


3 Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby) 12 caps -weak scruming
6 John Barclay (Glasgow Warriors) 36 caps, 2 tries, 10 points - out of position

Substitutes

20 Chris Cusiter (Glasgow Warriors) 59 caps, 3 tries, 15 points - slightly better but still out of form


So in actual fact only these are nailed on

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) 3 caps, 1 try, 5 points

10 Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby) 6 caps, 1 try, 2 conversions, 6 penalties, 27 points
9 Mike Blair (Edinburgh Rugby), 79 caps, 7 tries, 35 points

2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) 57 caps, 2 tries, 10 points CAPTAIN
4 Richie Gray (Glasgow Warriors) 20 caps, 1 try, 5 points
5 Jim Hamilton (Gloucester) 38 caps, 1 try, 5 points
6 John Barclay (Glasgow Warriors) 36 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
7 Ross Rennie (Edinburgh Rugby) 15 caps
8 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby) 5 caps

Substitutes

16 Scott Lawson (Gloucester) 32 caps, 2 tries, 10 points



So half a team on the pitch and no-one of worth on the bench

I give up - I have lived in England long enough - I am supporting them from now on

Of the three guys who got called up yesterday, the only one who shouldve actually had a chance at playing was Grove. This is just baffling! Scott gets dropped, Weir got dropped previously, Welsh still doesnt get a call up, the Barclay at 6 experiment persists, Kellock still hasnt been dropped, Max Evans hasnt been dropped, and Lamont hasnt been dropped?

I am so insulted by all that hoo ha that was made about picking on form when he first took up the job only for him to throw it out the window. Its an insult to the knowledge of supporters asking us to just go with some of the utter favouritism of Robinson and shove lines like “Jack has featured regularly for Bath this season. He’s strong and we know from his involvement with the squad back in the summer how much it means to him to play for Scotland.” down our throats. Cuthbert has featured regularly for bath this season. And hes been pish. As already pointed out, meaning a lot to him is not enough to merit a place in an international side.


Just leave Robinson, three tournaments in a row where you have insulted the supporters with your absolute inability to learn from your mistakes.

Imperialbigdave wrote:Of the three guys who got called up yesterday, the only one who shouldve actually had a chance at playing was Grove. This is just baffling! Scott gets dropped, Weir got dropped previously, Welsh still doesnt get a call up, the Barclay at 6 experiment persists, Kellock still hasnt been dropped, Max Evans hasnt been dropped, and Lamont hasnt been dropped?

I am so insulted by all that hoo ha that was made about picking on form when he first took up the job only for him to throw it out the window. Its an insult to the knowledge of supporters asking us to just go with some of the utter favouritism of Robinson and shove lines like “Jack has featured regularly for Bath this season. He’s strong and we know from his involvement with the squad back in the summer how much it means to him to play for Scotland.” down our throats. Cuthbert has featured regularly for bath this season. And hes been pish. As already pointed out, meaning a lot to him is not enough to merit a place in an international side.


Just leave Robinson, three tournaments in a row where you have insulted the supporters with your absolute inability to learn from your mistakes.

Look on the bright side we shouldn't have to put up with the cretin much longer!

Imperialbigdave wrote:
Cuthbert has featured regularly for bath this season. And hes been pish.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Imperialbigdave wrote:
Cuthbert has featured regularly for bath this season. And hes been pish.

What Robinson really should've said: "Cuthbert has featured on a handful of occasions for Bath in the Premiership from the bench and has featured regularly for Bath in the LV= Cup that nobody gives a rats arse about ... Please can I have a job at Bath now?"

I didn't even think Cuthbert has been playing regularly at Bath this season.

Thought he was playing for the reserves. Don't tell me Robinson sent Townsend down there and he's been watching the wrong games!

The team is sadly entirely as expected though, the Cuthbert curveball aside. Massive test for the front row, as against Ferris Barclay will be outmuscled and outfought by Zanni (who was storming against Wales) and Italy have some real flyers out wide these days (Benevenutti in particular), so thank goodness we have the defensive prowess of Sean Lamont out there.

Italy are surely favourites for this one, and we'll have to play at least twice as well as we did against Ireland to avoid a beating. Fingers crossed they go with Burton, and he continues his "Parks-esque" policy of kicking possession away.

The Wooden Spoon (if we lose) MUST absolutely spark a complete overhaul of the coaching staff. I was willing to forgive after the WC and allow Robinson the chance to make amends and bring through the talent emerging in Scottish rugby, but this campaign has been a complete failure, and if anyone at the SRU dares bring out some silly stat (like Scotland making the most passes and line breaks) to the contrary I will hunt him down and sit on his face.

I am absolutely dreading Saturday.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I didn't even think Cuthbert has been playing regularly at Bath this season.

Thought he was playing for the reserves. Don't tell me Robinson sent Townsend down there and he's been watching the wrong games!

The team is sadly entirely as expected though, the Cuthbert curveball aside. Massive test for the front row, as against Ferris Barclay will be outmuscled and outfought by Zanni (who was storming against Wales) and Italy have some real flyers out wide these days (Benevenutti in particular), so thank goodness we have the defensive prowess of Sean Lamont out there.

Italy are surely favourites for this one, and we'll have to play at least twice as well as we did against Ireland to avoid a beating. Fingers crossed they go with Burton, and he continues his "Parks-esque" policy of kicking possession away.

The Wooden Spoon (if we lose) MUST absolutely spark a complete overhaul of the coaching staff. I was willing to forgive after the WC and allow Robinson the chance to make amends and bring through the talent emerging in Scottish rugby, but this campaign has been a complete failure, and if anyone at the SRU dares bring out some silly stat (like Scotland making the most passes and line breaks) to the contrary I will hunt him down and sit on his face.I am absolutely dreading Saturday.

Ther have been absolute belters on here today! I guess everyone is agitated about the buffoonary we have accepted from the Bath baboon.

I desperately want Scotland to win, and will be screaming myself hoarse at the boozer, but it really is quite deflating to see things like Cuthbert being on the bench.

This looks like a selection to win the match, not to develop the team. Therefore if we lose I think Andy has to go.

I'd love him to be head coach then have someone above him doing the selecting etc, because coaching is what he's good at. Can't see that happening though.

RDW - I used to accept that line that "coaching is what he's good at", but as a specialist forwards coach that scrummaging and lineout display against Ireland was utterly woeful. Reminded me of the days of Mattie Stewart and Gavin Kerr.

Frankly we all know what's going to happen here. He's going to keep his job, regardless of the result. With the Townsend appointment it's clear that the SRU back him and his judgment to the hilt, so I suspect we're stuck with him.

I hope that players like Gilchirst, Harley, Rennie, Denton, Scott, Jones, Hogg et al continue to play to such a high standard that they simply cannot be ignored, but I really have lost faith with the current coaching staff in terms of selections and bringing through talent. Jack Cuthbert's selection is a prime example. What has he done (or not done) this season that either of Jim Thompson or Tom Brown haven't. Both look like considerably better players to me.

Scott gets dropped for failing to hold an impossible bullet pass from Jackson who keeps his place (he's prone to flinging out these types of passes). Weir played pretty well when he came on against France but he too was dropped. Grove played well in his two or three games two seasons ago but hasn't featured since. There must be more than a few young players hoping for a change of coach now I would imagine.

funnyExiledScot wrote:RDW - I used to accept that line that "coaching is what he's good at", but as a specialist forwards coach that scrummaging and lineout display against Ireland was utterly woeful. Reminded me of the days of Mattie Stewart and Gavin Kerr.

Frankly we all know what's going to happen here. He's going to keep his job, regardless of the result. With the Townsend appointment it's clear that the SRU back him and his judgment to the hilt, so I suspect we're stuck with him.

I hope that players like Gilchirst, Harley, Rennie, Denton, Scott, Jones, Hogg et al continue to play to such a high standard that they simply cannot be ignored, but I really have lost faith with the current coaching staff in terms of selections and bringing through talent. Jack Cuthbert's selection is a prime example. What has he done (or not done) this season that either of Jim Thompson or Tom Brown haven't. Both look like considerably better players to me.

He plays for Bath and is a big lump. Robinson probably has a picture of him on his bedside table.

I'd say there has already been a hefty overhaul of the coaching staff. The timing and media handling of which has been about as good as a Jacobsen fumble on the 5 metre line.

I fear the result on Saturday makes no real difference, apart from pride. We all agree its been a hugely poor 6N's from start to finish. The plus points have been we've blooded some cracking new players. I would have liked us to use Saturday's game to bring in some more.

I don't think Robinson will go and he'll argue he and Lowe have now put in place the systems they need to realise their vision for Scots rugby.

We'll see whether that's the case.

The thing is we'll see the square route of FA. He has good players at his disposal right now and he is doing nothing with them.

I fear your are right Nick, unless Robinsons own pride forces him to quit I dare say the SRU won't have the balls to sack him.

They seem more content to sack guys who have a lot of rubbish thrown at them, forced to improvise and still get results like Lineen.

Afternoon guys and gals

This is a disappointing end to what has been a bl00dy frustrating season (yet again)....... me and the missus was all for getting to the Italian game and decided against it a few weeks ago

Before I bang on about who should (or should not) have been selected, I would like to ask

What you thought of our Matt Scotts 20 minute performance last week?, alot of call for him to start last week and I think the 20 mins was enough to assess his readiness

So did he do enough to start, be on the bench or be left out?

I agree with you Radge, but maddeningly I think we'll see a c change in the style of Glasgow's style of play and the plan is to get them playing more like Edinburgh and, to an extent, Scotland. Therefore neatly fitting in with Robinson and Lowe's grand plan...

This is now beyond an embarrassment. Anyone who still had any vestiges of sympathy for Robinson to stay must surely now be clear that the man is not for changing. He simply will not pick anyone outside of his chosen circle of players, unless of course they play for Bath!!!!

The scrum is going to be eaten alive and god help us if Hogg gets injured. Am sure the Azzuri will target him, for with Cuthbert on they will have field day.

Ar's reasoning for choosing the donkey are absolutely hilarious "because we know how much it means to him to play for Scotland".
You really couldnt make it up it is so utterly pants!

sensisball wrote:This is now beyond an embarrassment. Anyone who still had any vestiges of sympathy for Robinson to stay must surely now be clear that the man is not for changing. He simply will not pick anyone outside of his chosen circle of players, unless of course they play for Bath!!!!

The scrum is going to be eaten alive and god help us if Hogg gets injured. Am sure the Azzuri will target him, for with Cuthbert on they will have field day.

Ar's reasoning for choosing the donkey are absolutely hilarious "because we know how much it means to him to play for Scotland".
You really couldnt make it up it is so utterly pants!

Have you ever seen the lad play?

I actually think Cuthbert is a good choice. I've made this clear before on other threads. I wouldn't be surprised if he got a run at centre this weekend, or a different position to full back.

flyhalffactory wrote:

sensisball wrote:This is now beyond an embarrassment. Anyone who still had any vestiges of sympathy for Robinson to stay must surely now be clear that the man is not for changing. He simply will not pick anyone outside of his chosen circle of players, unless of course they play for Bath!!!!

The scrum is going to be eaten alive and god help us if Hogg gets injured. Am sure the Azzuri will target him, for with Cuthbert on they will have field day.

Ar's reasoning for choosing the donkey are absolutely hilarious "because we know how much it means to him to play for Scotland".
You really couldnt make it up it is so utterly pants!

Have you ever seen the lad play?

I don't know why, but a lot of Scottish fans do not like Cuthbert. I regularly watch Bath play and he is a decent player with a lot of potential in my eyes.

bsando wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

sensisball wrote:This is now beyond an embarrassment. Anyone who still had any vestiges of sympathy for Robinson to stay must surely now be clear that the man is not for changing. He simply will not pick anyone outside of his chosen circle of players, unless of course they play for Bath!!!!

The scrum is going to be eaten alive and god help us if Hogg gets injured. Am sure the Azzuri will target him, for with Cuthbert on they will have field day.

Ar's reasoning for choosing the donkey are absolutely hilarious "because we know how much it means to him to play for Scotland".
You really couldnt make it up it is so utterly pants!

Have you ever seen the lad play?

I don't know why, but a lot of Scottish fans do not like Cuthbert. I regularly watch Bath play and he is a decent player with a lot of potential in my eyes.

Please tell us what you see in him, because no-one else sees anything remotely international quality in him.

bsando wrote:I actually think Cuthbert is a good choice. I've made this clear before on other threads. I wouldn't be surprised if he got a run at centre this weekend, or a different position to full back.

The probable reality is that few posters on here have actually seen the lad play but have made comments (usually throwaway one liners), he is a lump of a lad at 6ft 5in 14 stone, with a good turn of pace, strong direct runner and a fearsome tackler (something which we were pi55 poor against Ireland and England), versatile can play wing, centre or FB........... the bonus is he is a fair long range kicker

At 24 he has potential and is a viable alternative to Hogg or Evans.............. so give him a chance

flyhalffactory wrote:

bsando wrote:I actually think Cuthbert is a good choice. I've made this clear before on other threads. I wouldn't be surprised if he got a run at centre this weekend, or a different position to full back.

The probable reality is that few posters on here have actually seen the lad play but have made comments (usually throwaway one liners), he is a lump of a lad at 6ft 5in 14 stone, with a good turn of pace, strong direct runner and a fearsome tackler (something which we were pi55 poor against Ireland and England), versatile can play wing, centre or FB........... the bonus is he is a fair long range kicker

At 24 he has potential and is a viable alternative to Hogg or Evans.............. so give him a chance

Now youre just making assumptions that we havent seen him. Ive seen plenty of Cuthbert, and barring one good game last season, havent seen anything thats impressed me.

Surely that can't be right, 14 stone is nothing if you're 6ft 5! Duncan Weir is 5ft 8 and 14 stone 5lb!*

*from Wikipedia so probably wrong

Imperialbigdave wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

bsando wrote:I actually think Cuthbert is a good choice. I've made this clear before on other threads. I wouldn't be surprised if he got a run at centre this weekend, or a different position to full back.

The probable reality is that few posters on here have actually seen the lad play but have made comments (usually throwaway one liners), he is a lump of a lad at 6ft 5in 14 stone, with a good turn of pace, strong direct runner and a fearsome tackler (something which we were pi55 poor against Ireland and England), versatile can play wing, centre or FB........... the bonus is he is a fair long range kicker

At 24 he has potential and is a viable alternative to Hogg or Evans.............. so give him a chance

Now youre just making assumptions that we havent seen him. Ive seen plenty of Cuthbert, and barring one good game last season, havent seen anything thats impressed me.

+1

As for Matt Scott's cameo against Ireland he was out of position and had to deal with dreadful service from those inside him. A farcry from being able to judge him. He has now been dropped which is IMO inexcusable.

To be fair i am basing my views on him on the 60 minutes he had for Scotland against Ireland in the World cup warm up match. He caught some high balls under little pressure, made a couple of straight forward tackles and kicked a few balls out. He looked totally one paced and didnt break the defensive line once.

Nothing to indicate that he was anywhere near international class.

i believe he hasnt nailed a starting place at 15, playing second string to Nick Abendanon, a good but not exceptional club player.

He has however got some starts in the mighty LV cup, predominately used by clubs to give their bench/ back up players a few games.

So nothing suggests that he has suddenly become an international class player. Maybe we will get to see on Saturday, i certainly hope so and am quite prepared to eat my words if he can perform effectivley.

flyhalffactory wrote:Afternoon guys and gals

This is a disappointing end to what has been a bl00dy frustrating season (yet again)....... me and the missus was all for getting to the Italian game and decided against it a few weeks ago

Before I bang on about who should (or should not) have been selected, I would like to ask

What you thought of our Matt Scotts 20 minute performance last week?, alot of call for him to start last week and I think the 20 mins was enough to assess his readiness

So did he do enough to start, be on the bench or be left out?

Not surprised that you and your missus decided against travelling, I suspect the same may be true of many.

I'll step up for your question. Scott's 20-min cameo wasn't great, but I for one find it difficult to judge when he was playing out of position and outside a non-distributor in Morrison. He committed one knock-on that as far as I could tell was the result of a flat, zipped pass from Jackson that it didn't appear to me that he was expecting (not that he shouldn't be able to play off the cuff). He made 2 tackles in his brief appearance and missed none, so no defensive lapses there. Can't have been easy jumping in half way thru the second half rout either. Was he any better or worse than Morrison? Probably not, but let's be honest, FHF, Matt Scott is the future and Graeme Morrison is the past. Scott's non-selection and sticking with Morrison makes me think that Robinson has reverted to selecting a team not to lose (cos hopefully his job will go with another defeat) - inherently conservative, monumentally judgemental (smacks of Mathew Tai-esque treatment of THE form IC in Scotland), and simply not good enough.

As for Cuthbert, yes, I do get to see him a fair amount, mainly from being a fan - and I'm sorry but he doesn't have the turn of pace for a backthree player nor the distribution for a centre.

Italy: 15 Andrea Masi, 14 Giovambattista Venditti, 13 Tommaso Benvenuti, 12 Gonzalo Canale, 11 Mirco Bergamasco, 10 Kristopher Burton, 9 Edoardo Gori, 8 Sergio Parisse, 7 Robert Barbieri, 6 Alessandro Zanni, 5 Marco Bortolami, 4 Quintin Geldenhuys, 3 Martin Castrogiovanni, 2 Leonardo Ghiraldini, 1 Andrea Lo Cicero
Replacements: 16 Tommaso D'Apice, 17 Lorenzo Cittadini, 18 Joshua Furno, 19 Simone Favaro, 20 Manoa Vosawai, 21 Tobias Botes, 22 Giulio Toniolatti

What I don't understand is why he was brought in this week and then put on the bench this week, yet last week we were apparently content with no cover (okay S Lamont, so no cover) for FB. Shouldn't we have had him in last week instead of Scott then? Having him this week , esp after just entering the squad , seems to defy logic.

If he's there to be a winger primarily due to Lee Jones being out then he has somehow leapfrogged Danielli, who was already in the squad. So why wasn't Cuthbert in the original squad instead?

What annoys me is there's actually very little consistency or apparent logic in the selections. Weir not being involved after arguably playing absolutely fine is another example. And you can't drop Scott without giving him more than 20 minutes when we're playing our famous post-opposition-3rd-try-scramble-catch-up-drop-the-ball rugby.

Thank goodness for small graces. Burton is playing!

ASBO do you seriously reckon the SRU will sack Robinson? I question whether they will, as there are at least two coaches lined up to come in for the summer tour. Or will they rip up those contracts? Can they afford too? Indeed can they afford to sack Robinson?

I agree that Robinson has picked a side 'not to lose' but that's got more to do with public opinion IMO. He is far from ignorant. He knows some people are sharpening the knives.

Is Burton the one that is mince at kicking?

Not happy to see Castro in there - thought he'd be out injured.

His last 4 attempts at picking a side not to lose have resulted in what on the scoresheet though..? I wouldn't mind if we actually won the games where the selections are conservative / bizarre.

Our frontrow was probably going to get dicked anyway so Castro's appearance changes nothing.

We are going to struggle to contain this crowd in Rome.

Burton has been terrible and Italy's backline Benvenuti aside has been pretty woeful. Notwithstanding my above point about suddenly wanting a 2nd FB in the squad, I would have picked Grove to start (good defense) and had De Luca on the bench personally.

Another question I have is what did Grove do to leave the squad from a couple of seasons ago? Yes his team was in the Championship fair enough but he played well in the 3 matches he played.

Lamont v Bergemasco will be very funny IMO. Both hotheaded and really out of form. Okay that's a bit harsh on Lamont to compare him to Bergemasco, but I can't help but laugh at the idea of a double sending off.

Some facts: of 17 AP games this year, Cuthbert has started in 2, both as a winger, he has appeared from the bench in 7, has not featured from the bench but been picking splinters out of his erse in 3, and was not selected in 5 - does anyone believe those facts describe someone "regularly playing" for their club?

KickAndChase wrote:Burton has been terrible and Italy's backline Benvenuti aside has been pretty woeful. Notwithstanding my above point about suddenly wanting a 2nd FB in the squad, I would have picked Grove to start (good defense) and had De Luca on the bench personally.

Another question I have is what did Grove do to leave the squad from a couple of seasons ago? Yes his team was in the Championship fair enough but he played well in the 3 matches he played.

He did reasonably well in those 3 matches, then got loaned up to Edinburgh to try and promote himself as an IC in front of the selectors at HQ but did not find any form at all, returned for the remainder of a mediocre season to Wuss, but has picked himself back up this year

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

KickAndChase wrote:Burton has been terrible and Italy's backline Benvenuti aside has been pretty woeful. Notwithstanding my above point about suddenly wanting a 2nd FB in the squad, I would have picked Grove to start (good defense) and had De Luca on the bench personally.

Another question I have is what did Grove do to leave the squad from a couple of seasons ago? Yes his team was in the Championship fair enough but he played well in the 3 matches he played.

He did reasonably well in those 3 matches, then got loaned up to Edinburgh to try and promote himself as an IC in front of the selectors at HQ but did not find any form at all, returned for the remainder of a mediocre season to Wuss, but has picked himself back up this year

Ah right, shame, he made some flying tackles to help win that AUS match.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:Afternoon guys and gals

This is a disappointing end to what has been a bl00dy frustrating season (yet again)....... me and the missus was all for getting to the Italian game and decided against it a few weeks ago

Before I bang on about who should (or should not) have been selected, I would like to ask

What you thought of our Matt Scotts 20 minute performance last week?, alot of call for him to start last week and I think the 20 mins was enough to assess his readiness

So did he do enough to start, be on the bench or be left out?

Not surprised that you and your missus decided against travelling, I suspect the same may be true of many.

I'll step up for your question. Scott's 20-min cameo wasn't great, but I for one find it difficult to judge when he was playing out of position and outside a non-distributor in Morrison. He committed one knock-on that as far as I could tell was the result of a flat, zipped pass from Jackson that it didn't appear to me that he was expecting (not that he shouldn't be able to play off the cuff). He made 2 tackles in his brief appearance and missed none, so no defensive lapses there. Can't have been easy jumping in half way thru the second half rout either. Was he any better or worse than Morrison? Probably not, but let's be honest, FHF, Matt Scott is the future and Graeme Morrison is the past. Scott's non-selection and sticking with Morrison makes me think that Robinson has reverted to selecting a team not to lose (cos hopefully his job will go with another defeat) - inherently conservative, monumentally judgemental (smacks of Mathew Tai-esque treatment of THE form IC in Scotland), and simply not good enough.

As for Cuthbert, yes, I do get to see him a fair amount, mainly from being a fan - and I'm sorry but he doesn't have the turn of pace for a backthree player nor the distribution for a centre.

Cheers Mate
I remember (as an example) Rhys Priestland been told with 20 mins to go, that he was not only in the 22 but playing 10 against England at Twickenham in that important WC pre-match friendly, and he was outstanding........ if you are good enough you are ready no matter what

I thought Matt did ok in the 20 mins but nothing more than ok, he has this season played for us both I/C and O/C and quite has been pushed out wide during the matches............so the role wasn't that foreign to him. Personally I wouldnt have selected him for this years 6Ns TBH I think (like Denton in the WC) its come about 10 games too early for him, Grove, NDL, or Schlong in midfield should have been sufficient to build the side around. I believe Morrison (whom I wouldnt have selected) made more impact in those 20 mins both in defence and attack, which really shouldnt be the case if we are banging Matts drum for him

I remember Cuthbert playing for the U19s I am sure he scored about 40 points in around 6 games, he seemed pretty fast then, and had a fairly decent flat pass........... has he gone backwards? If he has then ARs need his derriere kicking

Cheers mate , at the moment it looks like you are the only one who has commented on Scotts performance

I really don't think anything gain be gained from looking too much into Scott's performance. This is his first involvement with the national team, he only would have had a few training sessions with them and he was meant to be 24th man then just before kick off was on the bench.

Add to that the fact that we were playing rubbish when he came on, Jackson was a headless chicken, and all he did wrong was drop one pass which was fired at him as he took man and ball, I don't think anyone can be too critical.

Give him a weeks full training with the squad and give him a start - then we'll see what he's really like.

flyhalffactory wrote:
Cheers mate , at the moment it looks like you are the only one who has commented on Scotts performance

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:As for Matt Scott's cameo against Ireland he was out of position and had to deal with dreadful service from those inside him. A farcry from being able to judge him. He has now been dropped which is IMO inexcusable.

Thats ok I don't mind being ignored

flyhalffactory wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:Afternoon guys and gals

This is a disappointing end to what has been a bl00dy frustrating season (yet again)....... me and the missus was all for getting to the Italian game and decided against it a few weeks ago

Before I bang on about who should (or should not) have been selected, I would like to ask

What you thought of our Matt Scotts 20 minute performance last week?, alot of call for him to start last week and I think the 20 mins was enough to assess his readiness

So did he do enough to start, be on the bench or be left out?

Not surprised that you and your missus decided against travelling, I suspect the same may be true of many.

I'll step up for your question. Scott's 20-min cameo wasn't great, but I for one find it difficult to judge when he was playing out of position and outside a non-distributor in Morrison. He committed one knock-on that as far as I could tell was the result of a flat, zipped pass from Jackson that it didn't appear to me that he was expecting (not that he shouldn't be able to play off the cuff). He made 2 tackles in his brief appearance and missed none, so no defensive lapses there. Can't have been easy jumping in half way thru the second half rout either. Was he any better or worse than Morrison? Probably not, but let's be honest, FHF, Matt Scott is the future and Graeme Morrison is the past. Scott's non-selection and sticking with Morrison makes me think that Robinson has reverted to selecting a team not to lose (cos hopefully his job will go with another defeat) - inherently conservative, monumentally judgemental (smacks of Mathew Tai-esque treatment of THE form IC in Scotland), and simply not good enough.

As for Cuthbert, yes, I do get to see him a fair amount, mainly from being a fan - and I'm sorry but he doesn't have the turn of pace for a backthree player nor the distribution for a centre.

Cheers Mate
I remember (as an example) Rhys Priestland been told with 20 mins to go, that he was not only in the 22 but playing 10 against England at Twickenham in that important WC pre-match friendly, and he was outstanding........ if you are good enough you are ready no matter what

I thought Matt did ok in the 20 mins but nothing more than ok, he has this season played for us both I/C and O/C and quite has been pushed out wide during the matches............so the role wasn't that foreign to him. Personally I wouldnt have selected him for this years 6Ns TBH I think (like Denton in the WC) its come about 10 games too early for him, Grove, NDL, or Schlong in midfield should have been sufficient to build the side around. I believe Morrison (whom I wouldnt have selected) made more impact in those 20 mins both in defence and attack, which really shouldnt be the case if we are banging Matts drum for him

I remember Cuthbert playing for the U19s I am sure he scored about 40 points in around 6 games, he seemed pretty fast then, and had a fairly decent flat pass........... has he gone backwards? If he has then ARs need his derriere kicking

Cheers mate , at the moment it looks like you are the only one who has commented on Scotts performance

FHF, you're welcome, altho there may have been noe or two other short comments before mine - we may not always agree but I always enjoy the debate and appreciate that you're always straight with your view

Scott has indeed played 13 on a handful occasions for Edinburgh, but I would think that we'd both agree he is a more natural IC, having actually been a flyhalf in his formative years. I guess we'll never know now whether Dublin was 10 games too early for Scott or the RWC 10 games too early for Denton, but as the tow IN FORM players in their respective positions, I wonder what, say, Robbie Deans would have done?

I think Cuthbert has regressed quite a bit from last season unfortunately, but that's not to say that the talent you saw at U19s isn't still there, it's just not to the fore at the moment - I'd certainly keep him in mind for the future if he can regain his edge. Btw, I wouldn't ahve gone for Jim Thompson either, cos let's be honest there's a reason he's been getting little game time for Edinburgh and it's not injury