Devalued 6 Nations...

First topic message reminder :

I've seen this so said on this board several times....

"....devalued 6 Nations...."

Can someone explain what is meant by the term.

Can you also explain why the 6 Nations is always devalued when Wales are leading the table (ie. same said in 2005 and 2008) but when England, France or Ireland are leading the tournament it is NOT devalued...

I just don't understand the logic.

Similarly, why are the IRB rankings meaningless when Wales are higher than England, which they where a week ago, and likely to be again after the weekend. But when England are above Wales they mean everything....

I could simply take jealousy as the answer.... but surely as we're rugby fans not wendy ball, so there must be a logical explanation to the above...

Please explain....

Alyn

Not for me mate, a GS is a GS, all the commotion before the GS game last season, and they failed. I think my emotions would be more releif than pure excitement, like the 2005 one. But it will mean just as much to me. Maybe 2013, and 2014 GS's will be a bit blah, but we'll definately be extatic again when we win the world cup 2015

Im just kidding guys

although, the narative holds very, very true!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Alyn

Not for me mate, a GS is a GS, all the commotion before the GS game last season, and they failed. I think my emotions would be more releif than pure excitement, like the 2005 one. But it will mean just as much to me. Maybe 2013, and 2014 GS's will be a bit blah, but we'll definately be extatic again when we win the world cup 2015

All we need is a little bit of water from Ogmore river, into the French players soup before the game and were all set. Well it worked for South Africa.... well kind of...

Ah quick Biltongbek is a Mod now isn't he!

By crying "devalued" the English fans use it as an excuse because their team isn't as good as they would like it to be, problem is they just seem to forget we could cry that about the late 90's and early 00's.

Kind of like when you beat someone in an arm wrestle and they cry off that they were not ready.

Ah Ogmore water... Does the trick everytime!

I bet looking back thru the 606 archives, devalued wasn't said be an England fan..

All Six Nations are devalued! (I don't actually believe any of these, they're just excuses I hear from people every six nations)

2012 - Every team is trying to rebuild after the world cup
2013 - All the players are trying to hard to impress the lions coach
2014 - All the players are recovering from the lions tour
2015 - Every team is preparing for the world cup later that year

Basically every team that isn't winning will find some reason to say the six nations is devalued :P

the term 'devalued 6 nations' has been devalued in anycase.

AlynDavies wrote:Nothing will compare to the 2005 slam though, we waited so long for it, I didn't think anyone thought we'd ever win another.

The 2008 one was "oh great another one", the 2012 will be lack the 2008 one as well to be honest (if we win of course).

Yes it's getting tedious



Who's the ref?

slartibartfast wrote:

AlynDavies wrote:Nothing will compare to the 2005 slam though, we waited so long for it, I didn't think anyone thought we'd ever win another.

The 2008 one was "oh great another one", the 2012 will be lack the 2008 one as well to be honest (if we win of course).

Yes it's getting tedious



Who's the ref?

05 was special. 2012 will be just as special; won in a different fashion and celebrated in a different way, but it will every bit as good as the 05 surprise GS

dogtooth wrote:

slartibartfast wrote:

AlynDavies wrote:Nothing will compare to the 2005 slam though, we waited so long for it, I didn't think anyone thought we'd ever win another.

The 2008 one was "oh great another one", the 2012 will be lack the 2008 one as well to be honest (if we win of course).

Yes it's getting tedious



Who's the ref?

05 was special. 2012 will be just as special; won in a different fashion and celebrated in a different way, but it will every bit as good as the 05 surprise GS

I just can't take the lows in between !!!

slartibartfast wrote:

dogtooth wrote:

slartibartfast wrote:

AlynDavies wrote:Nothing will compare to the 2005 slam though, we waited so long for it, I didn't think anyone thought we'd ever win another.

The 2008 one was "oh great another one", the 2012 will be lack the 2008 one as well to be honest (if we win of course).

Yes it's getting tedious

Who's the ref?

05 was special. 2012 will be just as special; won in a different fashion and celebrated in a different way, but it will every bit as good as the 05 surprise GS

I just can't take the lows in between !!!

not enough grand slams for you? we better make the rwc final at twiknum

dogtooth wrote:

slartibartfast wrote:

dogtooth wrote:

slartibartfast wrote:

AlynDavies wrote:Nothing will compare to the 2005 slam though, we waited so long for it, I didn't think anyone thought we'd ever win another.

The 2008 one was "oh great another one", the 2012 will be lack the 2008 one as well to be honest (if we win of course).

Yes it's getting tedious

Who's the ref?

05 was special. 2012 will be just as special; won in a different fashion and celebrated in a different way, but it will every bit as good as the 05 surprise GS

I just can't take the lows in between !!!

not enough grand slams for you? we better make the rwc final at twiknum

Let's hope its two home nations in the final (Wales one of them of course!)

"I've seen this so said on this board several times.... the 6 Nations is always devalued when Wales are leading the table (ie. same said in 2005 and 2008) but when England, France or Ireland are leading the tournament it is NOT devalued..."

Where have you seen all this said several times on this board? And if you are Welsh (I'm taking a wild guess here) why does it even bother you? Grow a pair, shrug it off and remember that wind ups are the last resort of the worried or the jealous. Wales have been the best side this year and the results show it. The alleged quality of the opposition they've beaten to get there is not their problem.

I hope Walsh is the ref, he is pretty fair and lets the game flow

viewtothegym wrote:I hope Walsh is the ref, he is pretty fair and lets the game flow

Yep, you can't argue with that.































Can you?

Look op.its wuming. and the welsh have more than threre fair share.

viewtothegym wrote:I hope Walsh is the ref, he is pretty fair and lets the game flow

When he's not lining himself up for the best camera angle.

A grand slam is a grand slam. The only thing "devalued" is the intelligence of anyone who thinks otherwise.
I've not actually seen anyone declare this 6N GS as devalued.

Taffineastbourne wrote:Dont forget Robshaw's yellow that he never got.We also did not pick any Saffers nor Kiwis.

You see what happens when their care workers turn their backs for even just a munute...

thebluesmancometh wrote:Well for me Tuilagi has more of a case because he came through the English system. Which is fair enough, but he has no English heritage that I know ofand Baritts granny once visited England???

I am 100% Welsh, granted with a tiny bit of Irish, Scot, and English heritage, but I am more English than those guys!!!

But then I am a great beleiver in not giving NZ so much credit due to half their team being poached from the islands for so many years. If you take the best physical specimens form physically brutal heritage you are always going to have an advantage!


And before anyone brings up the obvious, Cockbain, Howarth etc... I disagreed with them all, although was a child mostly.
But this is off topic, I'm not trying to hyjack the thread.

Barritt's parents are Rhodesian, so a bit of a fudge I'll admit! Stevens' and one of Hartley's are English I think. Though I will admit that the England team in recent years has shall we say, made full use of the international qualification rules.

What is ridiculous in your statement however, is the bit about NZ, maybe you've been reading too much Stephen Jones? The Pacific Island teams benefit way more from NZ than the other way round. There are in fact very few non-NZ born players in the current side, and those that are non-NZ pretty much all came to NZ as children. The relationship between the islands and NZ is very close (a lot like England and Wales) so it is not unexpected that some players have parents from one or the other. Pretty much all of the current NZ team though were born in NZ. Of those that were not:

1 born Australia moved to NZ when 3, Kiwi parents (Franks)
1 born in American Samoa, moved to NZ when 4 (Kaino)
1 born in Samoa, schooled in NZ (unable to find age at time of move) (Isaia Toeava)

That's it. Three people, all of which were schooled and learnt their rugby in NZ.

It's the biggest myth in rugby that NZ pillage the islands. Almost all of the "islanders" were either born in NZ or moved across very young with their families for economic reasons.

Look through the Samoa team and count the NZ born players, I guarantee you'll get more than 3...

"It's the biggest myth in rugby that NZ pillage the islands. Almost all of the "islanders" were either born in NZ or moved across very young with their families for economic reasons.

Look through the Samoa team and count the NZ born players, I guarantee you'll get more than 3..."

+1

We've had 3 Samoan internationals at Wasps. Trevor Leota, Dan Leo and now Sak Taulafo.

Every one of them born in NZ.

Equo Troiano wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:Dont forget Robshaw's yellow that he never got.We also did not pick any Saffers nor Kiwis.

You see what happens when their care workers turn their backs for even just a munute...

It seems you have a bit of an obsession with care workers Equo?

Not half as much as the people on here who must almost certainly depend upon them. Its okay, I wont be repeating it.

viewtothegym wrote:By crying "devalued" the English fans use it as an excuse because their team isn't as good as they would like it to be, problem is they just seem to forget we could cry that about the late 90's and early 00's.

Kind of like when you beat someone in an arm wrestle and they cry off that they were not ready.

View you are such a stirrer, always turning it into England v Wales. Pretty sure no English fan has called it "devalued", despite the fact that you probably were about this time last year!

Firstly I'd like to say, as others have said, that I've been reading these message boards a fair bit of late and not once have I seen anyone mention that the tournament is 'devalued'....don't know where you're getting it from, but it doesn't seem to be a popularly held opinion so you might be best just ignoring it?

But aside from that, I think that we've seen some absolute world class rugby this tournament. Have Wales had any easy matches? Hell no! They came through punch-ups against Ireland and England that they could easily have lost, and Scotland and Italy threw plenty at them, even if they never looked like winning. It is severely warped logic to say that because they 'almost lost two matches' the wins were devalued. Indeed, they should get more credit for these wins! If you put this scenario into boxing, the champ who defends his title in all-out wars with closely matched opponents is far more credible than the one who takes fight after fight spectacularly knocking-out bums in the early rounds (cough, Calzaghe, cough, cough....ahem....).

For me, if Wales were to win the grand slam it would be - arguably - a greater achievement than in 05 or 08. Not only because I believe the 6N's teams are more evenly matched than ever before, but also because - unlike 05 or 08 - they came in carrying a burden of expectation and a 'favourites' tag that the Welsh traditionally hate. And - in a most un-Welsh manner - they have - so far - clinically got the job done in tricky circumstances where their opponents weren't giving it away (....other than Lawes, I suppose, who literally 'gave it away' .....joking about this now, but still crying on the inside).

A grand slam is a grand slam is a grand slam. Always a massive achievement. E.g very few people - except particularly bitter Englishmen - remember that England mauled Wales for 60 minutes in 08 in a game we really should have won......they only remember that it was a Welsh grand slam - and rightly so

I wonder if the 6 Nations winners these days are often compared to England 2000-02? If so that is where 'de-valued' may come from. It is an unfair comparison. It was the best England team ever fielded and obviously the best in the world for a period. England once scored more than 20 tries in a tournament, although I do believe it has a little bit to do with the standard of Wales and Scotland back then! And also Ireland were only just emerging as a 6 Nations contender before it started to culminate in 2003-04 onwards.

They year England scored 28 tries in four games against W, S, It and F, they scored 6 of them against France at Twickenham - 6 different scorers, 5 backs and a Croft-esque effort from R Hill. Those of us with long memories also remember they then got caught cold in Dublin in the 'foot and mouth' delayed last game against Ire.

This Welsh side is a good side going well, no doubt, but will need to start bearing SH opposition regularly to take the next step up from regional to global power.

SecretFly wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:I hope Walsh is the ref, he is pretty fair and lets the game flow

When he's not lining himself up for the best camera angle.

He really is shocking isnt he

BluesMan:
You are more English than 'those guys' ?
Why even Cuthbert is more English than any of you
Yes, stop pillaging Englishmen wil you ?

These devalued/fluke/gifted Grand-Slams are coming in thick and fast

view......your such a sad c u next tuesday its unreal....