Best Two Fighters In The Ring...........EVER!

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There was an article here the other day discussing great trilogies. I can only really claim to have seen the Holy/Bowe trilogy which rocked everyone's world. Chris mentioned the Willie Pep /Sandy Saddler bouts... they fought four times. Willie Pep's name was heard by myself for the first time when Naseem Hamed fought Kevin Kelley.The line fed to the US media was that Hamed was the new Willie Pep. This did him much more harm than good however,as he was mocked by the same media. "He aint no Willie Pep" was the line form one seasoned sage, as he was knocked over four times on the way to his win.

Pep could bang well for a featherweight, was nicknamed "Willo-the-wisp", and famously once won one a round against Jackie Graves without throwing a punch, but instead won the result by " moving around, feinting,picking off punches,and making him miss."
Saddler, by fighting him four times,brought the 126 pound division back to the greatness it had once enjoyed.In the first of the fights Saddler knocked the supposedly unbeatable Pep flat on the floor,which wasn't too far away, given his short frame.In the return bout,Pep, possessing much nervous courage,gave Saddler a run for his money whilst also teaching him a few things from the textbook about
winning at any cost.In fact, Pep attributed his win to those black arts , by saying after the fight
"I hit him with with my best shots.Nothing .I caught him with my combinations..nothing.But when I stepped on his toes, he said "ouch!",so I stepped on those toes all night".
However Saddler could teach him a thing or two about being protected at all times-the last two fights, in stark contrast to the first two zingers,he stopped the fearless Pep in eight and nine rounds respectively...and not respectfully.

Seems to me that when the best two fighters meet, the result is not always gonna be a classsic..something I've always suspected may occur if/when the Flyd/Manny fight happens.
In my opinion the Lewis/Holy fights were not classics by any means, but interesting all the same watching the two great strategists go.

My question is this. Which two fighters(who actually fought) do you consider the best match-up ever,ever,EVER? Even if the result was disappointing?
Naturally, I think there is a strong claim for Pep/Saddler....So,thoughts?

Fitz is far from free from criticism but the truth is the two most capable challengers were Corbett and Jackson. Jackson was the unfortunate victim of the colour line and as for Corbett it was very much a case of reaping what you sow.

Totally agree he was no better or worse than any other guy re the colour line at the time. The fighters were a reflection of the times and in most cases were protecting theatrical and exhibition engagements which were their primary revenue source and would have nosedived had they lost to a black fighter.

Haven't read any biogs on John L Sullivan, but wonder if he directly quoted as saying he didn't like black fighters, or was it more the behind-the-scenes guys, I recall he had a very unpleasant manager he didn't get on with.Also wonder if the fighters had "the clout" to fight who they wanted.Sully sounded a right rascal but not a "bad" guy to me, was articulate and gracious after his loss to Corbett....he sounded a bit of a charmer to me.My aunt told me she heard of a story about him meeting the public in Ireland and he came across as a big-hearted, decent guy.

andygf wrote:Haven't read any biogs on John L Sullivan, but wonder if he directly quoted as saying he didn't like black fighters, or was it more the behind-the-scenes guys, I recall he had a very unpleasant manager he didn't get on with.Also wonder if the fighters had "the clout" to fight who they wanted.Sully sounded a right rascal but not a "bad" guy to me, was articulate and gracious after his loss to Corbett....he sounded a bit of a charmer to me.My aunt told me she heard of a story about him meeting the public in Ireland and he came across as a big-hearted, decent guy

The day after Johnson beat Jeffries the New York Times carried a report of the fight written by none other than John L Sullivan who, according to Johnson's own testimony, had been the FIRST to go to his corner after the fight and congratulate him on his victory. John L was also quite effusive in his praise for Johnson in his New York Times article.

Clearly, John L was slightly conflicted and a little less ' black and white ' - if you'll pardon the pun - than we are sometimes led to believe.

ArchBritishchris wrote:Ali vs George Foreman/ Joe Frazier, Joe Frazier vs George Foreman. Doubt such great heavyweights will coincide again. Alexis Arguello vs Ruben Olivares is another big one, Wilfredo Gomez vs Salvidor Sanchez.

If such heavyweights collide again it will not get the publicity for the simple fact that they will all be on PPV and away from Joe Public. I mean people in West Africa knew Frazier, Ali, Norton, Foreman primarily because Ali did his Africa tour and his black power politics, but also because most fights are now on subscription tv.

When those guys fought it was an event. The world stood still. Wars stopped (seriously - when Ali fought Foley the Biafran and Federal armies observed a ceasfire). Tyson was the last of that era. Those guys were larger than life.

rowley wrote:However Corbett should have given him a shot. Respect Corbett as a fighter but he does seem something of a horrible man. Made Fitz jump through any number of hoops to secure his shot and then when Fitz turned him over he cried like a girl when Fitz was not exactly rushing to give him an immediate rematch and wanted no part of Jackson when he had something to lose and it was not an opportunity to stick it to Sully.

~ Why sir, with reference to the great Black Prince, he was offered a title shot against Mr. Corbett, but didn't care for the terms, the same oft repeated tale of today's contenders.

Mr Andy has penned an interesting inquiry, but his examples are nowhere near the quality implied in the question.

Near as can be told, using IBRO p4p rankings as a benchmark, #1 Mr. Robinson beat #3 Mr. Armstrong some 70 yrs ago, the highest two rankings ever together, but of course Mr. A had seen better days, but still.

Moving on, the incomparable Mr. Langford was still green at the time, but he put a fair whoopin' on the Legendary Mr. Gans at his best, #6 near best beating #11 at his best----OUTSTANDING, so when I crack the code to time, this board shall have first viewing of the video.

#4 Mr. Louis was whooped by #12 Mr. Charles. Though Mr. L had slipped some, he proved to be a tough customer in his comeback, being the #1 contender and beating a host of contenders before Mr. Rocky got to him, so, again, OUTSTANDING!!!!

Delving into great divisional matches, hard to beat #1 LH Mr. Archie being well whooped X3 by #@ Mr. Charles. Oh but for the footage to prove to the flat earthers .

We do have some footage of #1 featherweight Mr. Pep against #2 Mr. Saddler though Mr. Pep had slipped some after being paralyzed in his plane crash, but he was still up there and outlasted Mr. S in the end by a fair number of years.

So there it all is for public perusal.

What would be the most dynamic matchup ever, a truer measure of personal opinion than Mr. Andy's question. I have some corkers, but do you?

Cant argue with Moore v Charles
Charles v Burley would be close
Though Robinson v Armsrong is better on paper that was Hank well well past his prime and Ray carried him
Fights i have actually seen then Ali v Foreman,Leonard v Hearns 1,Duran v Leonard 1,Leonard v Benitez (just for the skill levels of both men)

Would anyone notive if I rewrote the article and replaced the Pep stuff with what Professor says?
Now I know there's a god!

If you understand what the Proff says you are doing well!
Pep v Saddler was a good original call
Sanchez v Nelson might be a later equivalent

Yep Sanchez would have stuffed Gomez again and then probably rematched a less green Nelson.....

What a mouthwatering thought..

However for me Sanchez-Chavez war in 85 is more mouthwatering at 130!!!!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Yep Sanchez would have stuffed Gomez again and then probably rematched a less green Nelson.....

What a mouthwatering thought..

However for me Sanchez-Chavez war in 85 is more mouthwatering at 130!!!!

Good call. I'd pick Chavez though.