My top 5 outhalfs in the world.

First topic message reminder :

1.Carter-enough said.
2.Sexton-has all the qualities needed to be a brilliant flyhalf.
3.Nick Evans-wasting his time at Harlequins when he could be playing at the highest level.
4.Farrell-already looks like the real deal,plus there is no one else.
5.O'Gara-past it, (except for the last minute drop goals) but it isn't like I am going to pick Cooper.

CurlyOsp wrote:Steyn is probably the most under rated 10 in world rugby, he should be in everyones top 5 lists!

Everyone raves about O'Gara's drop goals, but Steyn gets points on the board any way possible, penalties, drop goals and a cheeky try or two.

Curly the problem with steyn is he is effective with the 2009 laws, he won us a British and Irish Lions series and a tri nations with his boot, he scored 29 points in a match against the all BLacks to clinch a 3-0 series. Now he is nothin more than a outdated goal kicker. he stands too deep, can't get his back line over the gain line and has little vision.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Hougaard and Lambie - something tells me that halfback partnership is going to scare many teams for years to come. Defences will have to be on full alert for those two. Part of me can't wait to see how they get on together, but at the same time I wouldn't want to face them!

Rory, we can only hope that the new coach has enough vision to see what everyone else in SA sees in those two.

I can see theres no convincing you Chunky. If you want to talk about accolades he was voted best heineken cup player of all time by sky sports, his game hasn't changed at all since that aswell. He's not top 5, but close. Biltongbek I know your pain all too well, I wish Kidney would stop with his conservative selections, was thinking the other day how different the Ireland team would be if Robbie Deans had been in charge for the last 3 years... dunno if result would be good or bad,probably bad, but at least exciting.

Good list but then the eyes get past number 3 and I go .....



Would have went for Morne Steyn and Contempomi (one man Argentina team), probably better suited to 12 these days though.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Hougaard and Lambie - something tells me that halfback partnership is going to scare many teams for years to come. Defences will have to be on full alert for those two. Part of me can't wait to see how they get on together, but at the same time I wouldn't want to face them!

Yeah I'm with you Rory. That is one scary combination and to date the powers that be in SA...havn't seen the light yet

I'd have Hougaard in the AB side in an instant. He and Genia are streets above anything else around. Amazing even now neither is first choice for SA.

We've a couple of budding 9's and 10's coming through and hopefully by years end we'll be able to match them as I'm certain Hougaard and Lambie will be the settled pairing by then.

In watching Steyn with the Bulls though I'm a little more impressed with his work rate as a link with the backs. Gets much more involved than in tests where hes purely a kicker.

disneychilly wrote: Though keep an eye on Anscombe, Barrett and Bleyendaal too.

Where are those three playing right now? BTW, I only rate Bleyendaal of the three, well actually I haven't seen Barrett.

SimonofSurrey wrote:I happened to have a beer at Stade de France last Sunday with the Brive club doctor (how's that for an opening line...) and I can assure you his world top 5 No 10s would not include Andy Goode. But AG did apparently have two good games for them shortly after he joined.

When it comes to English fly-halves, this guy must be a specialist. Wonder how Geraghty is doing now after his injury?

Behind Carter, it is difficult to really to have a clear hierarchy. All of the above mentionned players have their flaws so would even put JW somewhere in a top 5 list on his recent club form (before his injury). Contepomi and hernandez have been inconsistent this season. Heard good and bad things about Lambie for sure but cant judge. If you look at the 6N, none of the team had flyhalves putting big performances (would rather have brock james or nick evans than any of them), Owen farrel being possibly a good find but dont think he can be effective for a full 80 minutes. What about Cooper then? Is he finished?

yes

CurlyOsp wrote:Steyn is probably the most under rated 10 in world rugby, he should be in everyones top 5 lists!

Everyone raves about O'Gara's drop goals, but Steyn gets points on the board any way possible, penalties, drop goals and a cheeky try or two.

O'Gara has 16 international tries.
Both Stephen Jones and Wilko has 7 (to put his try scoring in context).

Don't think the drop goal thing is as easy as O'gara & wilko made it look. You have to laugh at the french efforts at the weekend which meant they lost a test match.

Sexton bottled it in the french game when he could have won the match for Ireland when he had a pretty good opportunity to drop a goal but he decided to run the ball instead.

Farrel in the top 5?

Top 5 in England maybe. After two tests the most you can say is he that he did OK, not fantastic, but promising.

The following is a short list of the many other fly halves ahead of him
Lamb
Evans
Jones
Cooper
Arlidge
Priestland
Lambie
Parra
Weepu

And some of those are only part time 10's

They're all crap.I didn't want to put Farrell in forth, however there is a serious lack of good tens nowadays.As you proved with your list of terrible outhalfs, with the odd exception of Lambie who is the best player in the world.

hugo124 wrote:They're all crap.I didn't want to put Farrell in forth, however there is a serious lack of good tens nowadays.As you proved with your list of terrible outhalfs, with the odd exception of Lambie who is the best player in the world.

Well I can't fault your humour Hugo.

offload wrote:

hugo124 wrote:They're all crap.I didn't want to put Farrell in forth, however there is a serious lack of good tens nowadays.As you proved with your list of terrible outhalfs, with the odd exception of Lambie who is the best player in the world.

Well I can't fault your humour Hugo.

either that or he has seen the light, although I suspect you are right.

biltongbek wrote:

offload wrote:

hugo124 wrote:They're all crap.I didn't want to put Farrell in forth, however there is a serious lack of good tens nowadays.As you proved with your list of terrible outhalfs, with the odd exception of Lambie who is the best player in the world.

Well I can't fault your humour Hugo.

either that or he has seen the light, although I suspect you are right.

Biltong, just because you are now a mod you can't go around suspecting people of being right, I'm entitled to a fair trial.

Morgan
Barrett is currently the 1st five 8th for the Huricanes in S.15.
Anscombe is the 1st five 8th for the Blues in S.15.(or should I say one of them).

offload wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

offload wrote:

hugo124 wrote:They're all crap.I didn't want to put Farrell in forth, however there is a serious lack of good tens nowadays.As you proved with your list of terrible outhalfs, with the odd exception of Lambie who is the best player in the world.

Well I can't fault your humour Hugo.

either that or he has seen the light, although I suspect you are right.

Biltong, just because you are now a mod you can't go around suspecting people of being right, I'm entitled to a fair trial.

sorry bud, you are WRONG.

Carter (sort of)
Slade (sort of)
Cruden
Donald
Back up Weepu

World Cup Winning 1st fives

Seriously though
I think Barrett, Anscombe, Bleyendaal, and even Sopoaga could surpass Cruden and Slade next year (too early this year).

Lambie is very good and not really too much of a risk taker I reckon.

1. Carter









2. Evans





3. Lambie (it'll be exciting to see what he can do this summer)
4. Sexton
5. Contemponi

Wow. Looking at the lists and suggestions, I simply don't see the talent at fly half we had around ten years ago. Most major Rugby countries had better options than now. Not winding anyone up, but as a generalisation, it does seem lower level, virtually across the board.

dr grey, was thinking the same thing myself. its funny how many of the top 10's have an obvious weakness that can be exploited....

...On 10's can't understand why JOC is goalkicker for the Rebels when anyone with a reasonable knowledge of goalkicking can see Cipriani's style- particularly at short range- is superior to JOC's.

Even though he kicks for Oz and has a seemingly endless reserve of confidence, he just doesnt have the technique that Cips has and that must really cheese Cips off.

taylorman
I have the utmost respect for O'Connor in all aspects of what he brings to a team and for a young fulla he brings a lot of maturity to his game.He was the second highest scorer in the World Cup (behind Morne Steyn). i watched steyn last weekend at Loftus get upstaged by a young goalkicker playing his first game of Super rugby.
My bottom line is I'd go with O'Connor,I'd trust that Ciprianni as far I can kick a bag of cement.

Sin é wrote:

O'Gara has 16 international tries.
Both Stephen Jones and Wilko has 7 (to put his try scoring in context).

Don't think the drop goal thing is as easy as O'gara & wilko made it look. You have to laugh at the french efforts at the weekend which meant they lost a test match.

I had an arguement a couple of days ago with a few Irish regs because i dared to say that ROG was actually an attacking 10 and not just a place kicker or tactical kicker. It really drives me mad that people only see that about him. His defence is not the greates but he also doesnt shy away from it.

As for the portley one, he just has a hatred or Ireland and the Irish so i dont see any point in giving him the time of day, his sole purpose on here is to ruin any thread he comes across.

I clicked on this expecting a serious thread, then I saw Farrel's name.

For me,

1. Carter
2. Cooper
3. Steyn
4. Sexton
5. Priestland

There is no doubt Carter is head and shoulders above the rest.

Cooper in my opinion is a maverick, he is as capable of winning you the match as he is able to make the most horrendous mistakes that will cost you the match.

Steyn is tactically a good kicker and probably the most accurate boot, but is limited, his defence is adequate without being great, he doesn't attack the gain line at all, and even when he does, there is little gain.

Both Sexton and Priestland has potential, but so does about 10 other fly halves in world rugby at the moment.

I dont know biltong, you may be right about cooper costing the Aussies matches but he certainly does have something very good about him and i love watching him play. A very exciting 10 in my books.

Steyn, to me, is similar to ROG in a way that his defence may not be the best but i also find him to be quite attacking and his kicking is excellent.

Sexton and Priestland are the best the NH have to offer right now and i would teand to lean towards Sexton as being the better of the two.

Parks

eirebilly wrote:
Steyn, to me, is similar to ROG in a way that his defence may not be the best but i also find him to be quite attacking and his kicking is excellent.

Sexton and Priestland are the best the NH have to offer right now and i would teand to lean towards Sexton as being the better of the two.

steyn at times seems absent in my opinion, he cost us a number of games in 2010 tri nations

I would agree with sexton and Priestland, the problem is neither one of the home nations apart from IReland and Wales have settled 10's at the moment.

Well you are the better judge than me on Steyn mate but i do like him and rate him highly.

1. Carter
2. Sexton
3. Madigan
4. ROG
5. Humphreys (Ian)

My real, honest to goodness top five.


1. Patrick Lambie
2. Peter Grant
3. Johan Goosen
4. Earl rose
5. morne Steyn.

I have a feeling that the white stuff on the biltong you ate this morning wasnt salt mate

As I said earlier this brings to mind the current crop of players at out half in general do not seem the same quality of ten years ago. Not really close. So I decided to put a short list together (from whats left of my fading memory).

This has nothing to do with players career accomplishments, but how they were/are playing about 2002 and 2012. Simply better then, at least to me. See what you think:

Australia:..2002 Stephen Larkham............. 2012: Quade Cooper
England:...2002 Jonny Wilkinson............... 2012: Flood/Farrell
France:... 2002 Freddie Michelak/Merceron 2012: Bauxis/Parra/Trihn-Duc
Ireland:....2002 David Humphries ..............2012: Johnathan Sexton/ Ronan O'Gara
Italy:.......2002 Diego Domínguez...............2012: ???
NZ:.........2002 Mehrtens/Spencer ............2012: Carter/Slade/Cruden
Scotland: 2002 Gregor Townshend........... 2012: Parks/Laidlaw
SA: ........2002 Andre Pretorius.................2012: Morne Steyn
Wales: ....2002 Stephen Jones ................2012: Rhys Priestland

eirebilly wrote:I have a feeling that the white stuff on the biltong you ate this morning wasnt salt mate

Ok, i will retract Morne Steyn from the list, but Earl Rose stays.

Morne Steyn is a one trick pony I’m afraid, Biltong will back me up on that.

ROG was good, probably a top 6-10 rather than a top 5 but his generation of flyhalf has thrown up some great players. Basically, unless you are Nick Evans, if you can’t make the starting lineup for your country how can you expect to be top 5?

My Top 5 as it stands would be:

Carter – the best ever
Evans – the Eric Clapton to Carter’s Hendrix
Sexton – more and more consistent these days
Trinc-Duc – a game changer when on form
Priestland – an allround player, ok lost a bit of form but has years ahead of him

doctor_grey wrote:
Italy:.......2002 Diego Domínguez...............2012: ???

Kris Burton or Tobias Botes?

Both are comic at international level, although being in attendance at the Millenium on Saturday, I have to say that even though he was hidden out on the wing on defence, Burton made at least two brilliant one on one try savers on Cuthbert

hugo124 wrote:Steyn is the most one dimensional outhalf in the game.Trinh-Duc is a good runner but doesn't have a kicking game.

Sorry Hugo but I'm not sure you can justify this comment on Steyn. You picked Farrell in your top 5 fly halves. The boy has barely played International Rugby (no exposure against SH rugby yet), kicks his goals well and defends brilliantly. He does not have a running game either though and does not look a great distributor of the ball. He's solid in his role but hardly flash. Basically a english Dan Biggar. No disrespect to Dan Biggar by the way as I am probably one of the few on here who actually rate him.

For me my top 5 would look like this (based on performances over the last 12 months):-

1. Dan Carter - At the moment by a country mile.


2. Cooper - Sure he didnt have a good WC but still over the last 18 months been probably the second best 10 in international rugby.
3. Priestland
4. Cruden
5. Sexton

offload wrote:Farrel in the top 5?

Top 5 in England maybe. After two tests the most you can say is he that he did OK, not fantastic, but promising.

The following is a short list of the many other fly halves ahead of him
Lamb
Evans
Jones
Cooper
Arlidge
Priestland
Lambie
Parra
Weepu

And some of those are only part time 10's

Offload your list is a load of rubbish. It's tough to gauge exactly where Farrell is in regards to other fly halves.Certainly above most of the jokers you suggest.

Evans is better but I don't think Evans as good as everyone makes out.

Cooper - as someone already said. On his day he is immense, when off song he is appalling. Farrell is more consistent. Perfect example of consistency vs potential.

Priestland? Farrell completely outplayed him in their recent encounter. Making Priestland look like an absolute fool. Priestland is still arguably ahead but that recent humiliation is a good case for Farrell.

Lamb? No way. If Lamb was that good he would be on the England radar instead of being 2nd fiddle to Myler at Saints.

Jones is no longer good enough for Wales so irrelevant. Farrell is better.

Arlidge - admittedly know little about him but after reading his wiki he doesnt seem anything special at all. Plying his trade for Nottingham as a 32 year old doesnt tell me he's better than Farrell.

Parra and Weepu are scrum halves. Neither are better than Farrell.

All the Farrell haters don't like the young England prospect do well. He probably isn't top 5 but might just sneak into top 10 based on the 6 nations. Of course it's debatable. What is not debatable is that Farrell is ahead of most of the mediocre names you came up with Offload.

chewed_mintie wrote:
ROG was good, probably a top 6-10 rather than a top 5 but his generation of flyhalf has thrown up some great players.

I actually think that does ROG a diservice. I'd put ROG top 3 at times, maybe higher.

I've rarely seen a fly half who could just totally dominate games with his tactical kicking and brain. He has been pivotal to a Munster team which reached 4 HEC finals in a decade. Some of his performances have just been fly half masterclasses.

His place kicking is top class, particularly.... and this is key, under big,big pressure. In fact I can't think of many players I'd rather have kick a winning drop goal or penalty in a huge game.

His distribution is excellent too and he has a fair old try tally at International level which he ralrely gets credit for.

Yes he has his obvious physical deficencies and the Lions tours didn't go great for him but hes been a top fly half for a long time.

hugo124 wrote:

biltongbek wrote:sorry mate, but if you don't know I can't help you.

It would take less words to write the name of the team than writing that... and frankly, I feel that is disrespectful and I think you should be banned! rumour has it, its easy enough for that to happen

Sorry you deserved that - to start a thread on World Class 10's and not even know who Lambie is is comical and shows you are ill equipped to start such a thread

For the record:

Carter
Evans
Hernandez
Cooper
Lambie

no NH 10 is good enough.

Welshmushroom wrote:

hugo124 wrote:Steyn is the most one dimensional outhalf in the game.Trinh-Duc is a good runner but doesn't have a kicking game.

Sorry Hugo but I'm not sure you can justify this comment on Steyn. You picked Farrell in your top 5 fly halves. The boy has barely played International Rugby (no exposure against SH rugby yet), kicks his goals well and defends brilliantly. He does not have a running game either though and does not look a great distributor of the ball. He's solid in his role but hardly flash. Basically a english Dan Biggar. No disrespect to Dan Biggar by the way as I am probably one of the few on here who actually rate him.

For me my top 5 would look like this (based on performances over the last 12 months):-

1. Dan Carter - At the moment by a country mile.


2. Cooper - Sure he didnt have a good WC but still over the last 18 months been probably the second best 10 in international rugby.
3. Priestland
4. Cruden
5. Sexton

Ouch - Calling Farrell an English Dan Biggar is a big insult. At least Farrell can cut it at international level.Biggar failed spectacularly in the Wales-Fiji humiliation.

You put Priestland 3rd? Is that the same Priestland who fell apart spectacularly against England and was largely missing in the Italy game?

doctor_grey wrote:As I said earlier this brings to mind the current crop of players at out half in general do not seem the same quality of ten years ago. Not really close. So I decided to put a short list together (from whats left of my fading memory).

This has nothing to do with players career accomplishments, but how they were/are playing about 2002 and 2012. Simply better then, at least to me. See what you think:

Australia:..2002 Stephen Larkham............. 2012: Quade Cooper
England:...2002 Jonny Wilkinson............... 2012: Flood/Farrell
France:... 2002 Freddie Michelak/Merceron 2012: Bauxis/Parra/Trihn-Duc
Ireland:....2002 David Humphries ..............2012: Johnathan Sexton/ Ronan O'Gara
Italy:.......2002 Diego Domínguez...............2012: ???
NZ:.........2002 Mehrtens/Spencer ............2012: Carter/Slade/Cruden
Scotland: 2002 Gregor Townshend........... 2012: Parks/Laidlaw
SA: ........2002 Andre Pretorius.................2012: Morne Steyn
Wales: ....2002 Stephen Jones ................2012: Rhys Priestland

doctorG, wash your mouth out with soap, young man

roddersm wrote:1. Carter
2. Sexton
3. Madigan
4. ROG
5. Humphreys (Ian)

OK, you nearly had me until the last one, rodders

I am shocked, no takers for Earl The Man Rose, I'll have you know he was once PDV's blue eyed boy.

I know that he won't appeal to everyone, but I like the way that Francois Trinh-Duc plays the game - theoretically his kicking (or lack thereof) is a weakness, but he gets a backline moving for me and can switch to a territorial game if needs must (he does it easily for Montpol)

geoff998rugby wrote:

hugo124 wrote:

biltongbek wrote:sorry mate, but if you don't know I can't help you.

It would take less words to write the name of the team than writing that... and frankly, I feel that is disrespectful and I think you should be banned! rumour has it, its easy enough for that to happen

Sorry you deserved that - to start a thread on World Class 10's and not even know who Lambie is is comical and shows you are ill equipped to start such a thread

For the record:

Carter
Evans
Hernandez
Cooper
Lambie

no NH 10 is good enough.

Thank you Geoff, I was too afraid to respond, as he was going to ban me.

But yeah, that is pretty much what I meant