Will Robinson ever walk away from the Scotland job?

Listening to Robinson this evening, when asked about his future, he just kept repeating that he was contracted until 2015.

There appears to be no mention of success being judged against results, as he said when he came into the post.
My feelings are that as long as the SRU back him he wont walk no matter how many games we lose.
Given the Townsend fiasco at Warriors it looks like they are backing him to the hilt just now.
Robinson could be about half way through the longest losing streak in International rugby history that will make his doomed run as England coach seem like a minor hiccup!

What do you think?

If all he kept repeating is that and nothing about him wanting to stay and knowing he will then you might find he walks after this week.

That was my thoughts too.

As i said in another thread, Robinson's reply to an STV News reporter when asked about his future was "i am contracted until 2015, my main focus is on Italy"

It seems that being a weatherman isn't the only job where you can get it completely wrong and not be sacked.

Scot Abroad wrote:It seems that being a weatherman isn't the only job where you can get it completely wrong and not be sacked.

Have you been following any financial news at all for the past half a decade..?

Half decade? More like the last 20 years.

He'll never walk away, sacking is the only option.

This to me is the fault of the SRFU. I don't mean just them this has been a problem with various RFUs. What coach is going to walk without thinking of their future. If their term over a team ends badly chances are it's going to be very hard for them to find a decent job. If they think they will be out of work those golden handshakes will be very useful for them personally.

RFUs should have contracts stipulations with regards to performances or shorter contracts in order to prevent having to pay hand over foot when they know the coach isn't working. It's not like this is the first time we have seen this situation. The IRFU with Eddie O'Suillivan and there are others.

Now i am not saying every coach is thinking of holding out to bleed the RFUs dry but it must be one of the factors they stay on.

That or I am just far too cynical.

Simply, AR honestly believes that he is doing a good job. I think that he has done some good work at ground level but its yet to be transformed into the senior level. His replacements at the weekend against Ireland (Rennie) were amazing. Ireland were on the back foot and the game was still very much on when he takes off one of his most potent attacking players with no apparent injury. It seemed to me at the time that he was protecting Renni for Italy and giving up on the match against Ireland. Thats a defeatist attitude and not the quality an international coach should have.

To me, i doubt whether he will walk as he still believes that he has something to give but at the end of the day, Scotland are (for all their line breaks and attacking play) are going backwards at a rapid rate.

Why would he - he has the protection of the SRU and their back room boys - results are not requred, as long as we lead in one stat - then we can focus on it - anyway it is always the refs fault

I still think that EOS would be a great coach for Scotland...

Given the recent announcements on the arrival of Scott Johnson and Matt Taylor as coaches, and the current support from the SRU, I can't see him walking away from the job even if we loose to Italy.

If he has his own choices as coaches in place, and believes he has a job to complete, then he has every motivation to stay and do a good job for Scotland rather than walk away from the job.

Will Robbo ever walk from the job you ask, well, if its true that Bath are eyeing him up then yes, i can see AR leaving to take that job up especially if Mr Craig offers him money, money talks and also, it will save his reputation well up until he struggles at Bath.

I think that the SRU should be ashamed that when they offered him a new 4-yr contract it had no conditions relating to results - Robinson regularly states his wish to be judged on results, and yet there is no contractual provision that permits just that? Extraordinary stupidity

Interesting insight into the mood in the Scotland camp from the Ferret in today's Herald:

Allan Jacobsen's 'joke' reveals worrying aspect to inner workings of Robinson's Scotland

by Kevin Ferrie, Senior Sports Writer

Scotland's players have been kidding themselves for too long.

No, not this observer's withering assessment but that of Allan Jacobsen, whose analysis yesterday was disturbing in terms of Andy Robinson's time in this country. The nuggety little prop from Prestonpans, who first toured with the national side in 2000 and has been a stalwart of Edinburgh and Scotland teams for most of the last decade, made it clear that he believes those involved in repeated failures have been too ready to let each other off with poor performances.

"Guys are angry with themselves and each other because we're not showing what we can do. It's frustrating and it does make you angry," he said.

He was asked how that anger with one another had manifested itself, Jacobsen sought a get out by using humour, saying: "Big massive punch-ups . . ."

It drew considerable laughter from most, but when he realised one was not laughing and was instead prepared to point out that once upon a time a bout of fisticuffs might well have been the way matters were resolved successfully, he realised it was time to be serious.

"We've not really done anything to get in a punch-up this week," he said. "We had a really good scrummaging session and a lot of that came from everyone's anger. I guess the thing is if you're angry with somebody for doing something wrong you need to tell them.

"It's not good enough keeping it in and not letting somebody know they've done something wrong and you're peed off with them. That has been happening this week [but] maybe not enough in general over the last five years."

He may have selected the number at random, but it was a significant one since it was in 2007 that Robinson arrived in Scotland to take over as head coach of the club Jacobsen plays for.

Robinson has benefited from being seen as the tougher part of a coaching double act with Clive Woodward when England won the World Cup in 2003 and there is a general view in rugby that every international dressing room needs someone that players do not want to face if they let their country down.

That aura can be generated in different ways since Paul O'Connell, Ireland's formidable captain, is a very different physical specimen from Shaun Edwards, the Northern English terrier of whom Welshman live in fear.

It was, then, feasible that, as a smaller man, Robinson could be that figure, yet increasingly the impression is that it was entirely down to Martin Johnson to put the fear of God into any Englishman who did not pull his weight in that era.

If it is not Robinson, it is hard to think of anyone in the Scotland dressing room who would command that type of respect, then, particularly since Al Kellock had his authority undermined by being dropped from the team while captain at the World Cup.

Furthermore, the impression has been that, for all Robinson's talk of needing to win at all costs when taking the job, this is a camp that has become all too willing to praise itself for the levels of effort put in and for statistical successes which stops short of scoring more points than the opposition.

That has been a recurring theme in Scottish rugby in the professional era, so what could have been taken as a throwaway remark from Jacobsen may also be interpreted as offering insight into a softness of attitude.

The prop did say that Robinson continues to have his full support and the players seem to be enjoying the current regime. However if, as Jacobsen seemed to indicate, they have been getting away with telling one another how well they have done rather than offering an honest appraisal of one another's failings, it is hardly surprising that most would settle for such an easy ride.

Even so there had to come a time when some involved realised the pointlessness of weaving pretty patterns to little real effect.

"We should always be trying to win ugly," said Jacobsen. "We just need to read things better, make better decisions. A lot of our mistakes come from the pressure that's put on ourselves."

He accepted that opponents have come to realise that they need simply to absorb Scotland's naive attacks and wait for the blunders.

"That's what's been happening, so maybe we've got to kick the ball down there and see what other teams can do when we defend. It's a balance. We've all got to help each other. As a pack we've got to let the backs know when we're under pressure and tell them to kick the ball, get it out of here. We're all responsible for Scotland's performance."

During an era in which Scottish backs have struggled to finish off the forwards' hard work, collective responsibility should extend both ways. To that end, Jacobsen has never scored for Scotland, albeit he thought he had done twice in Rome, two years ago.

Noting amusingly that he had a celebration planned some time ago, but has now forgotten it, he looked back wistfully to an afternoon that ended in yet another ignominious defeat.

"It's just the way it happened. The first one I was at the bottom of about 10 bodies, so it was pretty difficult for them to see. It's just the way it went that day. I don't think I would do anything differently . . . as far as I'm concerned I scored two tries, but nobody could see it," he recalled. "It would be nice [to score] but it's not really been a big part of my game has it, scoring tries? I have got a lot of other things that's more important that I get right than touching the ball down over the line and scrummaging is right at the top.

"I don't know if life owes me a try, but it would be nice. It's just never happened . . . maybe one day. Maybe Rome owes me one . . . or two maybe."

He knows, however, that it is not a matter of being owed anything but of going out and earning it, a message that several others in the camp could do with digesting.

If the Scottish players were to list each others failings just how long would that meeting be?

Actually that's the problem, they don't train because they're still in that meeting from the previous summer tour's matches.

No i do not think the pig headed besterd will ever resign- that is why the spineless, gutless morons at the SRU must bag him - doubt they will though

ROBINSON MUST GO -NOW

I really hope the Interviewer asks him tomorrow about his future and repeats the question until this a**hole answers it.

If Mr McLaughlin is the man who decides AR's future then i CAN see him being fired, if its Mr Dodson then i'm not sure, haven't heard what he wanted for this years 6N, i know i wanted at LEAST 2 wins!!

Posted this on another thread, a very depressing thought...

GLove39 wrote:If we do lose to Italy on Saturday, it will mean that Robinson will equal his 'record' of coaching a national side to 7 straight defeats in a row...

CaleyShaun wrote:I really hope the Interviewer asks him tomorrow about his future and repeats the question until this a**hole answers it.

If Mr McLaughlin is the man who decides AR's future then i CAN see him being fired, if its Mr Dodson then i'm not sure, haven't heard what he wanted for this years 6N, i know i wanted at LEAST 2 wins!!

Caley, absolutely right, two wins was a minimum, anything less is unacceptable

How he survived the RWC is astonishing given his woeful selections there so it would appear we are stuck with him - god how depressing ! Predict we will have to pre-qualify for RWC 15 with Mr Bean at the helm.

Never fear, there's a rumble I can hear, and I think it's the fat lady warming up. Get ready to open the door for a Bath-bound Robinson, c21st

Really ASBO ? Are your SW contacts buzzing ? Hope its true - how about a Lineen/Bradley combo ?

Yup, the wires are glowing orange, mate . I know that you'd favour a domestic appointment, but I'd still prefer someone with genuine experience at the top level of the game and from outside Scotland with a fresh view of what the players are truly capable of. Don't forget that we're stuck with Johnson and Taylor whatever happens

His position HAS to be UNTENABLE now, Andy just Flip OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So much for this SAS geezer, your DESPERATE attempt to save your job has backfired, why you got him in to motivate the team is beyond me, isn't that a coaches job.

Goodbye Andy!!

I wouldn't be too quick to appoint Bradley like some are suggesting, remember how we got Robinson and Hadden in the first place!

I'd go for Lineen - he's experienced, he's Scottish (sort of...), he knows the players, and the team he currently coaches have shown a useful ability to grind out wins, something Scotland haven't done since 2010. Further, his apparent ability to develop and use younger players is in direct contrast to Robinson's obvious intransigence.


From Lineen's perspective, I'd say that the U20 job would be a step backwards after Glasgow, whereas the national job would be more fitting.

I am going to put ,y name forward for th job. Why not, I am great

Scotland has some excellent players when all are fit, but i think Robinson, if anything, has made them look BETTER than the sum of their parts.

I've thought for a while that Scotland should be doing better than they have been, but i'm now convinced that 1-15 Scotland simply do not have a great team. I mean no offence, i really don;t think my team (England) are any great shakes either trust me.

Maybe you guys do just need a change, but i'm not convinced your pack for starters will be better coached by anyone else.

I would agree that his selections have been poor though and almost reason enough to ditch him.

I don't care whether he walks or whether he's fired, as long as we remove him and follow that up with doing everything possible to get the best man for the job (and no, that is not Gregor Townsend).

Hood - we have some decent players and should be able to match the rest - but we are less than the sum of the parts and show no spirit.

The selections and substitutions also cost us in every game - as soon as parks was picked for the calcutta cup I knew we would struggle to win a single game - England were there for the taking with an attacking selection - instead a defensive selection and we lost - momentum and self belief just ebbed out of the team.

Robinson is to blame - the buck stops with him

Hood83 wrote:Scotland has some excellent players when all are fit, but i think Robinson, if anything, has made them look BETTER than the sum of their parts.

I've thought for a while that Scotland should be doing better than they have been, but i'm now convinced that 1-15 Scotland simply do not have a great team. I mean no offence, i really don;t think my team (England) are any great shakes either trust me.

Maybe you guys do just need a change, but i'm not convinced your pack for starters will be better coached by anyone else.

I'm glad you have joined the forum and are contributing because I enjoy reading your posts, but on this issue I think your wrong.

Scotland have so many good, young players, but they have no game plan, they have a core of players who are as good as Wales's ones.

Murray, Gray, Denton, Barclay, Hogg, Lee Jones, Sean Lamont alone should be enough for Scotland to win 2 home games every season. They should on paper of torn Italy to pieces today, but never looked competitive.

Hood83

Fair enough, we do not have the strength and depth like many others, that's always been the situation.

That is why we need the majority to perform at there best and belief that we can compete man to man. Therefore the coach has to be good enough to sometimes take a chance and have a belief that we can produce the goods.

That team out there today did not have belief!

That is the managers fault.

AlynDavies wrote:

Hood83 wrote:Scotland has some excellent players when all are fit, but i think Robinson, if anything, has made them look BETTER than the sum of their parts.

I've thought for a while that Scotland should be doing better than they have been, but i'm now convinced that 1-15 Scotland simply do not have a great team. I mean no offence, i really don;t think my team (England) are any great shakes either trust me.

Maybe you guys do just need a change, but i'm not convinced your pack for starters will be better coached by anyone else.

I'm glad you have joined the forum and are contributing because I enjoy reading your posts, but on this issue I think your wrong.

Scotland have so many good, young players, but they have no game plan, they have a core of players who are as good as Wales's ones.

Murray, Gray, Denton, Barclay, Hogg, Lee Jones, Sean Lamont alone should be enough for Scotland to win 2 home games every season. They should on paper of torn Italy to pieces today, but never looked competitive.

AD, +1 on your overall point, but Murray and SLamont, time for both to retire from international rugby - thanks for coming, fellas, and for the loyal service

Yep and on evidence today Ross Ford is past his sell-buy date. Cretinous performance and never, ever a captain. Robinson/Townsend/SRU have finished off Scotland for years. No-one will be going to see humiliations at M'field.

Please pse SRU get this utter wan*er to feck

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Yep and on evidence today Ross Ford is past his sell-buy date. Cretinous performance and never, ever a captain. Robinson/Townsend/SRU have finished off Scotland for years. No-one will be going to see humiliations at M'field.

Please pse SRU get this utter wan*er to feck

Not sure that is the end of ford. Up until the last games he was shoe in for lions start. Bad game does not make a bad player

Other than this game, I'd have said Ford was the most impressive hooker in the tournament.

The issues that Scotland still haven't sorted are props and midfield backs - I'm not convinced Laidlaw is the answer at 10, Morrison is a solid pro but uninspiring at 12 and Max Evans is not an international class 13 (decent enough winger though). Some of this is simply down to not having enough good players (SRU have to shoulder some of the blame for allowing the game to dwindle to the two regions, and not re-establishing the pro game in the borders, but some is coaching and selection)

Looking at this year's 6Ns form, if you were picking the Lions for this summer, you'd have:
Gray definitely as a Test starter (superstar in the making)
Ford definitely in the squad and maybe the Test side
Rennie definitely in the squad, but perhaps as back-up to Warburton
Denton probably in the squad (noting that 8 is a position of potential strength for the Lions)

Blair with a good chance of being in the squad
Hogg perhaps included as a wild card selection - as an all-round fullback I'd rate all of Kearney, Foden and 1/2p as better, but as a purely attacking threat he's something special, and the rest of his game will mature.

With regard to Robinson, I think the last 2 matches have made his position untenable - the first three games there were positives to take in respect of making opportunities and being competetive, but last week was a step back (other than Richie Gray, who is becoming Scotland's answer to Parisse in terms of being so much better than the rest of the side), and this week was abject.

http://www.sportinglife.com/rugbyunion/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=rugby/12/03/17/RUGBYU_Italy_Quotes.html&BID=504.

Doesn't sound to me like a man who expects to remain in charge, in fact, i am CERTAIN he'll resign, if this article is anything to go by anyway.

I don't like this "so and so should retire" attitude regarding players. My view is that all players playing pro rugby should be in contention, and that it's up to the coaches to pick the right ones based on form and alternatives.

On that point, the comments about Ross Ford are completely ridiculous. Up until the second half against Ireland he had been outstanding. Not just good, but exceptional. His carrying was brilliant, our lineout awesome and he seemed to be everywhere in the loose. One (really) bad game should not detract from that. I blame Robinson for not taking him off when it was clear he was out of sorts. Scott Lawson has a really good throw on him, and should have come on in the second half. Now that would have been a substitution that made sense, not withdrawing our leading lineout player and best player, Richie Gray, for the tireless but Borthwickianly average Ali Kellock.

Robinson must carry the can for this and resign.

TJ wrote:Hood - we have some decent players and should be able to match the rest - but we are less than the sum of the parts and show no spirit.

The selections and substitutions also cost us in every game - as soon as parks was picked for the calcutta cup I knew we would struggle to win a single game - England were there for the taking with an attacking selection - instead a defensive selection and we lost - momentum and self belief just ebbed out of the team.

Robinson is to blame - the buck stops with him

Maybe i've been a little unfair. I DO think Scotland has some talented players, but i don't think there are too many threats behind the pack. Gray, Lamont, Blair, Denton and Rennie all look international quality. When Barclay wants it, so does he.

But i still think the players who aren't up to scratch are just far too poor to compete. Hamilton, De Luca, Morrison, Murray, Jacobsen...i don't think any are up to this level. Scotland's genuinely good players are carrying them. I think England also has these players but i think they're at a marginally higher level.

I do think the squad is good enough to win 2, maybe even 3 games in the 6N, and it's fair to say England should have been one of them this year. Robinson's selections have been poor - Parks was an atrocious choice and clearly lost you the game to us. For that, i can understand people wanting his head. Equally, i thought you should have turned Italy over.

On the players not believing they can win. Yes, i can see that is partly down to Robinson, but he's also got Scotland playing better than i've seen on occasion as well. Beating Argentina away was a massive achievement, as was beating Ireland away.

Basically, he's a good forwards coach but poor selector. I'm just not convinced there is anyone out there who will do a better job. Maybe Mallett if Lancaster gets the England job

[quote="AlynDavies"]

Hood83 wrote:Scotland has some excellent players when all are fit, but i think Robinson, if anything, has made them look BETTER than the sum of their parts.

I've thought for a while that Scotland should be doing better than they have been, but i'm now convinced that 1-15 Scotland simply do not have a great team. I mean no offence, i really don;t think my team (England) are any great shakes either trust me.

Maybe you guys do just need a change, but i'm not convinced your pack for starters will be better coached by anyone else.

I'm glad you have joined the forum and are contributing because I enjoy reading your posts, but on this issue I think your wrong.

Scotland have so many good, young players, but they have no game plan, they have a core of players who are as good as Wales's ones.

Murray, Gray, Denton, Barclay, Hogg, Lee Jones, Sean Lamont alone should be enough for Scotland to win 2 home games every season. They should on paper of torn Italy to pieces today, but never looked competitive.[/quot

Cheers Alyn. I think you're right on most of those, but Murray i think is completely past it now, he doesn't even scrummage that well these days. Lamont is a good player but his form doesn't look great. Barclay is either a world beater or anonymous. Gray and Denton look fantastic, but Jones and Hogg look like they still have a way to go.

I think the way i look at it is, if they line up against another NH team, aside from Italy, which players would i keep over the oppositions'. At the moment that's probably Gray, and possibly Rennie, maybe Blair/Cussiter. Jones and Hogg may become those players.

Need to agree with most of your points there Hood old chap

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Need to agree with most of your points there Hood old chap

Thanks 21st C - I would concede this much - I can't for the life of me remember saying 'Andy Robinson is a world class forwards coach and deserves more time' when he was England coach...so i'm sympathetic to Scotland fan's desire to see the back of him!

The sad thing is, as a pure forwards coach under a Head Coach i think he'd be superb. But he wouldn;t want the demotion now. I'd also quite like to see him involved coaching an English Prem side like Worcester or even Bath, as i think he'd be better than the current incumbents.

Hood,
I am sure you would concede he (Robinson) is an astonishingly atrocious selector. I cannot for the life of me figure out what his game plan was esp. yesterday. Replacements unfathomable and utterly inexpilcable. I honestly think he is quite mad !

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Hood,
I am sure you would concede he (Robinson) is an astonishingly atrocious selector. I cannot for the life of me figure out what his game plan was esp. yesterday. Replacements unfathomable and utterly inexpilcable. I honestly think he is quite mad !

Oh god yeah, sorry i should say that as well. A truly awful selector, and for that you could justifiably boot him.

I suppose if i think about who is out there - Mallett, Kirwan etc - Henry desperate to do some 'consulting' - there are people who could arguably do a better job as a coach and selector. But they're big asks to get in.

Christ just thinking about his selections gives me cold sweats - he gave a very literal example of being at 6s and 7s...that doesn't quite work but you get my point - his back-row collections were shocking.

One thing i thought, until the last few games, was that he had got you rucking as a team incredibly well, in fact possibly the most cohesive rucking team after the ABs (seriously, everyone seemed to know when to counter ruck and when to back off. That seems like it's gone backwards slightly since the Killer Bs days.

He simply must go, there is really no alternative. Coming off the back of our worst ever world cup performance, the Scotland squad came together in January, a week's training followed by the usual oddball selections (Parks, SLamont out of position) and some glaring omissions. Nonetheless, the lads played well, outplayed Englang on the park just not on the scoreboard, undone by fluffing several try-scoring opportunities that were created. The newbies & youngsters look to the manor born - Gary, Denton & Rennie. Another week with Robinon and Townsend, and we have the debacle of Steadman's non-renewal of contract leaking out on the morning of the match and Robinson's dropping of Parks having asked him to come out of retirement. Nevertheless, the team go in at half-time level with Wales, unlucky not to be ahead, the final action of the half seeing a (Jenkins-induced) Chunk knock-on that would have given a lead which would not have been against the run of play. A terrible restart and 15 mins of madness and playing two men down, and Wales have stormed away (good teams do that), but Scots pride and another new find (Hogg) drag them back into the game and they walk away with honour. Another week with the buffoons, more curious selections, picking players out of position, but the lads play some very positive rugby against France, a couple of individual mistakes away from taking down France. But we get mother newbie (Weir) who looks comfortable at this level.

A week away from the gruesome duo, and we're off to play a supposedly weakened Ireland. But we're persisting with players struggling for form, still playing lads out of position, and a stirring Irish display induces 3 Scottish errors that shatters the confidence in the first half, and once the fragile psyche has gone, there's no way back. At least we get another talented newbie on the pitch, even if it is down to injury and he is playing out of position (Scott). Waking up with a horrific hangover on the Sunday morning, only to discover that Robinson has turfed out his old rival Lineen to make room or his poodle, the least talented attack coach ever to have bothered Scotland, Gregor Townsend. So it's the wooden spoon battle for Italy, and nothing changes - a team is picked not to loose (ha, ha, bad joke!), with the usual bizarreness firmly in evidence with selections and positions. But the players have now had 5 weeks under the influence of Robinson, their confidence is shot to Poopie, conservative selections, players playing out of position, woefully out- of-form players are stuck with, and Chunk is only saved by a warm-up injury, but at least we get more fresh blood ( Welsh). The play can only reflect the lack of confidence and direction in he camp - one of the worst Scottish displays ever.

Ach well, that's what 6 weeks with Robinson and Townsend will do for you

Well said ASBO - could not have put it better myself +1

I may have put this in the wrong place but this article is interesting, i will let you guys read it and see what you make of this.

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/4202323/Scots-pasta-joke.html.

What are your thoughts after reading this guys ?